New Details: Dog Attack Victim Could Lose Leg (takes action to stop a Pit Bull from attacking a boy)

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.kmtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11164684

Omaha, NE - A woman takes action to stop a Pit Bull from attacking a young boy. Now she's recovering from some serious injuries. It happened near 14th and Sherwood Avenue. The woman's husband tells Action 3 News her bites are so bad, doctor's may be forced to amputate her leg.

A Pit Bull's big brown eyes look up out of her cage. She's timid at the Nebraska Humane Society but Saturday, the dog tried biting three different neighbors, one a young boy. "Scary, pretty scary," said 9-year-old Lionel Valles.



Witnesses tell Action 3 News, when the 9-year-old was walking down the street, that's when the dog came and attacked him. When he yelled for help, the neighbor heard him, came to his rescue and the dog turned on her too. 52-year-old Joyce Haynes suffers bites so severe, her husband says you can almost see her bone. "I tried to help the lady, she had gashes everywhere, blood coming everywhere," said Lionel's Godparent, Monce Castaneda.

"Took a two-inch by 3-inch gash out of her left leg and four puncture wounds on her right leg," said the victim's husband, Bill Haynes.

FULL story at link.

[Divine Discontent]

1. sadly this happens way too much to be 'just something that happens with improper supervision"

there's lots of stories out there, all equally sad.

[TxRider]

104. Yet I heard on a documentary just Saturday that German Shpherds are the #1 attackers/biters

[uppityperson]

2. Why do they capitalize Pit Bull throughout the story? Should be dog.

Dog bites can be nasty, painful, dangerous and all dogs are capable of biting, larger dogs can bite bigger and harder. That said, wtf is the capping of P B throughout the article except to emphasize OMG PIT BULL!!! hysteria? Dog looks more like a mastiff type head, looking at the jowls on it.


I hope she heals quickly and well.

[Omaha Steve]

6. Omaha had 5 pit bull attack in 1 month last year

Include those from Council Bluffs, Iowa last year and over 2 dozen terrified pit bull attacks on people or children in our Omaha metro area in a year. I've posted the other stories. Omaha passed a new dangerous dog law because of this. Look them up.

OS

[uppityperson]

40. I noticed you didn't address my question. nt

[Omaha Steve]

96. If the Humane Society says it is a Pit, I believe them

Perhaps if you read the 2 dozen plus stories of PB attacks in the metro Omaha area in the last year, you would understand how Omahans feel about them. One uninsured dog put a little girls parents in bankruptcy when they couldn't pat the medical bills.

The original story in the local paper a day before: http://www.omaha.com/article/20090920/NEWS01/909199950

Published Sunday September 20, 2009

An Omaha woman was severely injured Saturday night when she was bitten by a pit bull.

The woman was bitten on both legs and hospitalized, said Pam Wiese, a spokeswoman for the Nebraska Humane Society.

The dog was not restrained at the time of the attack, Wiese said.

The incident began when the dog “charged up'' to a little boy, she said.

As neighbors tried to corral the animal, the pit bull bit the woman on both legs, causing a deep gash in one calf.

“It's a serious injury,'' Wiese said, who described the wounds as mutilation.

The attack occurred near 14th Street and Sherwood Avenue.

The owner of the animal was ticketed on suspicion of violating city animal ordinances, including harboring a dangerous animal and failing to restrain and muzzle the dog.

The dog was impounded by the Humane Society. It will be held for 10 days and could be euthanized after that, Wiese said. — Joseph Brennan

[uppityperson]

106. Ask yourself this: WHY do papers luv to report "Pit Bull bites someone" and not "big dog"

bites someone?

Bonus question. Why do papers NOT report front page "we made a mistake, it was not a Pit Bull but a Retriever mix"?

Follow the money.

I don't trust Humane Societies. They incorrectly ID'd my adopted dog as a 7 yr old female when he was a 1 1/2 yr old male with an id tattooed on his thigh from previous humane society stay.

And even trained animal people often cannot correctly ID a pit bull.

[roody]

81. Lock up the breeders and the irresponsible owners.

[pnwmom]

30. Pit bulls have stronger jaws than many dogs of comparable size,

they are often bred to be aggressive, and they are involved in a disproportionate number of attacks.

[uppityperson]

36. No, they don't have stronger jaws... As has been disproven here time and time again

search might help with that. They are involved in a disproportionate number of attacks that the media reports on, often in error. I wonder why that could be except the sexiness of "OMG PIT BULL!!!" selling papers?

[flvegan]

39. False.

They do NOT have stronger jaws. They are not involved in a disproportionate number of attacks.

Try again.

[uppityperson]

42. They Are involved in a disproportionate number of news reports. Until shown it wasn't a OMG Pit Bull

thanks

[flvegan]

43. Don't make me

break out the Merritt Clifton report!!1! It proves pit bulls are of the devil!!!

[uppityperson]

45. I imagine

it will show up. As will snarks about pit bull apologists or the usual suspects who are in denial etc.

I wonder what happened to The Kid and hope The Woman will heal quickly.

[flvegan]

46. I asked below

what happened to the kid. I saw his picture on the site for the story, and it didn't mention anything about him being bitten. Maybe "attacked" is the new "menaced" in these stories. I'd be thrilled for the kid, as I wouldn't want him to be bitten, but the journalistic integrity maybe just sucks a little.

Or a lot.

[pnwmom]

52. Here's the other point of view.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."

[flvegan]

53. Ha! I called it!

Woo hoo, the Clifton report. "Statistics"...how rich a term is that?

[uppityperson]

55. I was just gonna let you know. good job!

you must be part Pit Bull. Tenacious, Vicious, "Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics."

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pnwmom]

56. You asked for it, I gave it to you. And here's something else,

from the Wiki article on pit bulls:

"pit bull-type dogs often exhibit "bite, hold, and shake" behavior when biting<20>, so some pit bull rescue organizations and advocacy groups recommend owners of pit bull-type dogs carry a "break stick" to lever their dog's jaws open if it bites a person or animal.<8><21>

United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2000)
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in 2000 a study on dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) that covered the years 1979-1998. The report found that
"the data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities."

[flvegan]

59. I appreciate you giving me shit data, I do.

Why don't you look into the Clifton report and the similarities to the CDC study. Then, when done with that, research why the CDC dumped their study and their data.

Wait...I'll help you. Because it's shit, and the CDC admits it. Clifton is the only idiot stupid enough to continue with this assertion. But...it probably gets some donations in the door.

And wiki? Please. Come to think of it, I can't recall a dog that when thrown a stuffed toy, didn't also do the bite hold and shake method you mention. Hmmmmm...

[LeftyMom]

62. Ooh, a live one. Do let me know who ignored is.

And of course most dogs grab a toy and shake it when the bite. Terriers were originally bred for pest control. They all do that bite and shake because it's how they were bred to kill rats. It's actually quite funny to throw a little terrier like a Jack Russel a beanie baby and watch them growl and try to shake it to death- it's an instinctual behavior all terrier breeds exhibit.

I know you know that, I'm just clearing things up for whoever ignored is. Have fun.

[Michigan-Arizona]

140. How right you are LeftyMom

My male Jack Russel shake's & kill's his tennis ball's everyday. Friends or family watch him shake it so hard that it look's like he is a bit on the crazy side. We have lot's of very dead tennis ball's. As you said it's very funny to watch them shake their toy's till they are dead, lol.

[uppityperson]

60. Most dogs bite, hold and shake when biting. Ever played tug with a dog?

Again that study was based on reports and media reports which, as has been shown, are often inaccurate as well as biased against big headed short haired dogs.

[uppityperson]

54. The #s are taken from media reports which, as we have seen, are biased.

Try educating yourself with these links:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6595781&mesg_id=6596410

"Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics." Yup. That they are. They can be quoted over and over and over and eventually attempt to become a Truth of their own.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6595781&mesg_id=6596299

[pnwmom]

63. Are you familiar with the statistics in Seattle? Not based on news reports,

but on dog bite reports kept by the city.

This was from David Horsey, Seattle P.I. columnist and political cartoonist.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/davidhorsey/archives/148659.asp

Nevertheless, the members of the Seattle City Council seem reluctant to treat pit bulls differently than any other pooch. Although pit bulls have been banned from other cities and from entire states, Seattle's political "leadership" wants to be fair and not judge one breed more harshly than another, even if that breed has been responsible for more than a fifth of all dog bite incidents in the city while making up a mere four percent of the total canine population. Actually, that statisitic is outdated. The latest count reveals that, in 2008, pit bulls have been involved in half of all biting incidents. Can anyone still claim these dogs are not in a category all their own?

[uppityperson]

64. "A chihuahua is to a pit bull what a BB gun is to an assault rifle." This is an editorial piece

Educate yourself. Dog bites REPORTED to the city. And what type of dog gets reported the most? You got it. Big headed short furred dogs.

"Sure, you can put your eye out with a BB gun and, sure, a chihuahua can bite, but no one is going to die from either one. An assault rifle and a pit bull can both kill."

So. Can. Any. Big. Dog.

Educate yourself.

[pnwmom]

95. Doctors and hospitals report dog bites. Dogs that bite have to go into

quarantine.

The statistics are real. Any big dog can seriously injure a person -- but some dog breeds are statistically more likely to bite, at least in Seattle.

[uppityperson]

105. I have been bit but didn't report it to a doctor or hospital. And no, it wasn't a "Pit Bull" so

there I go, skewing those statistics.

Did you ever find a puppy?

[pnwmom]

141. Fine. Of the bites that require medical treatment in Seattle, a disproportionate

number are pit bulls.

[uppityperson]

146. You are getting closer but not quite there yet. Of the bites REPORTED

a disproportionate number are pit bulls or declared to be pit bulls. Those that end up NOT being pit bulls (and remember that even people who work with dogs can have a difficult time correctly identifying a Pit Bull) are still reported as pit bulls.

My bite required medical treatment, which my medical mother did, and didn't report it.

[uppityperson]

58. That (false) reason is why they capitalize the P and B?

[flvegan]

41. Fear and hysteria are more fun than reporting news.

We had a dog attack here recently. When the news broke, it was all screaming about pit bull this and that. Then, when animal control said it was a "lab mixed with possibly pit bull" the animal was referred to then as "a dog"

Funny how that works.

[lies and propaganda]

122. cause a PIT did it

love how people get so bothered over how FUCKED up these dogs are. Like you are the devil himself if you admit or are cognizant that these dogs attack people, often children.

[uppityperson]

147. The dog in the pictures is a mastiff cross, not a OMGPIT!!!

any dog can bite, many dogs attack people, often children.

[beyurslf]

3. I wonder what the boy did?

Growing up, my neighbors had a pit. Nicest dog you'd ever meet. Some kids walking down the street were throwing rocks at her. We saw them and told them to stop but they didn't. She got out and bite one pretty bad. She was put down. Even as a kid, I didn't think it was fair since she was defending herself. I bet that kid never did it again though.

[Critters2]

4. Blaming the victim. Now THAT's progressive! nt

[beyurslf]

7. I am asking for information, not blaming.

I wonder why a dog, whose owner says is around people and children all the time, would suddenly attack someone if not provoked in some way. This does not make it okay or blame the victim. Maybe the boy startled the dog or yelled at her or threw something in that direction.
Is it progressive to jump on the death to pits bandwagon without even knowing the whole story?

[LisaL]

9. In this kind of cases, the owners almost always say the dog

was great with people and children.

[beyurslf]

11. But sometimes it is true

[LisaL]

13. I am not saying it isn't.

It appears some of these dogs just snap for no apparent reason.

[beyurslf]

20. The problem is someone is lying and we will never know who.

I don't personally own a pit but I know they can be loving dogs. I have a choc lab myself and I don't think you could do anything to make her bite. She'd just roll over if you hit her and then look up and lick you. :)

[Critters2]

21. Yeah, my beag, too. I don't think it ever occurs to her that she could bite.

And one of my cats occasionally gives her an excuse, if she wanted it.

[beyurslf]

24. Mine just about never even barks. When she does, I think she scares herself

and she runs behind me. Oh such a guard dog!!

[Critters2]

117. Yeah, everyone tells me beagles are noisy. Mine isn't. Nosy, yes. Noisy, no. nt

[roody]

84. A well-trained dog does not snap. Dogs, like

humans are a product of their life experiences.

[Critters2]

113. So, the nature/nurture debate has been settled? When did that happen? nt

[Berry Cool]

136. I theorize that any time a dog like that perceives you to be in "its territory"

it will attack, even if not provoked in any way by you. And that some define "their territory" very broadly to include any area within five to 10 feet of their house, including things like public sidewalks (which means they will attack, unprovoked, people walking down the sidewalk outside their houses, unless they are restrained).

[PVnRT]

124. ...and the victims always say they were minding their own business

So, I guess hearsay and conjecture aren't evidence.

[Occulus]

93. No, he didn't blame the dog at all.

:)

[Critters2]

116. Ah, the classic pro-pit bull behavior...being more concerned about the dog

than the injured humans.

That one never gets old.

[LisaL]

8. Well according to the article he was walking when pitbull came

and attacked him. So I guess the boy walked.

[beyurslf]

10. In thia kind of case, the victims almost always say they did nothing.

Who wants to say they abused a dog before it attacked them?

[LisaL]

14. The article says the boy was walking down the street when

the dog came and attacked him.

[Berry Cool]

137. Some people refuse to believe pit bulls will make unprovoked attacks, but some will.

I know this because:

1. I had a downstairs neighbor in a two-apartment house, with pit bulls (she ID'ed them to me as such)

2. I came down our mutual back stairs once to go to the basement laundry room at a time when they so happened to be running free in the backyard, and one of them RAN UP THE STAIRS and bit me on the hand while I was standing there on the stairs. (When I heard her come running, I froze in the hope that the dog would not see me as a threat if I didn't move. It didn't help. She came RUNNING OUT OF THE YARD AND UP THE STAIRS SPECIFICALLY TO BITE ME. I can only conclude she did this because she regarded the back stairs as "her territory" to protect against all "intruders," even though I regularly used them to access the laundry room.)

Luckily she didn't break skin, no blood and she had her shots. My neighbor was mortified and ready to do anything to help me (from then on, she didn't let the dogs out if she knew I was on the stairs and I didn't go there if I knew they were out). Fortunately it wasn't that bad. But it's the honest truth: I was attacked, and I did not provoke; I didn't even move my hand toward the dog in a friendly gesture that could have been misinterpreted.

Ever since then, I have never doubted the story of a pit bull attacking someone who just happened to walk down its street. People always say the person must have either attacked the dog, or tried to wave the dog off, or frightened the dog in some way by waving their arms around or presenting an active target. I am here to tell you: No. Not necessarily.

I love animals. I don't hate pit bulls. I just don't believe people who will tell you they are gentle, sweet animals who will never attack anyone unless provoked.

[benEzra]

142. Some people refuse to believe that other large dogs are just as capable of vicious attacks

given similar upbringing and circumstances.

My son has a scar on his hand from where a yellow lab mix bit through his hand. He got between the dog and its food bowl and made a move she interpreted as threatening, and she snapped. We did not ask for the dog to be put down, and she wasn't, BTW.

[pnwmom]

32. The dog not only attacked the boy, he viciously attacked the woman he knew well

who tried to stop him from biting the boy. That dog should be put down. ASAP.

[Critters2]

34. +1 nt

[Critters2]

37. Blaming the victim. Nice. nt

[Critters2]

19. Well, then he had it coming. Dogs can't be expected to ignore people walking, after all. nt

[democracy1st]

82. dog still in the wrong

[johnaries]

5. Hard to tell from that pic, but it doesn't look like a pit bull to me.

A lot of people mistake other breeds, especially mixes, with pit bulls.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

[astonamous]

28. We see the mistaken identity all the time.

I'm not even sure what a Pit Bull is. I know what a Staffordshire Terrier is and I think that Pit Bulls come from that line, but I feel that the term "Pit Bull" is almost a racist term and as your link points out is given to any dog look a certain way. We do DNA testing on some of our rescues and if there is Staffordshire Terrier in the mix, then we assume that the dog is probably a Pit Bull, but most of the DNA results are everything but...



Sophie's DNA results: Parson Russell Terrier 40 - 60%, Boston Terrier 20 - 40%, Bulldog 20 - 40%.

This in no way means that we would place Sophie or any other dog in just any home. Because Sophie would be identified as a Pit Bull, we have to make sure that her new family would keep her safe and protected from ever being put in a risky situation.

[uppityperson]

38. Me either. It has a wide head, short hair, but the jowls and ears look wrong.

But hey, what is that to stop the reporting of OMG A PITT BULL!!! Did you notice the dog was referred to over and over again as the "Pit Bull", capital letters and all. Thank you for posting that so I don't have to. Again.

[vanboggie]

44. Thank you - was just going to post this

I used to think the same thing many do about pit bulls and was reluctantly talked into keeping a rescue. What a sweetheart, and she hasn't bit or even tried to bite anyone in her life.

The dog in the photo does not look like a pit bull, and I encourage all who brand pits as evil killers to take the quiz and then visit this site.

http://www.badrap.org/">Pit Bulls:Bad Rap

Edited to add: Read MONSTER MYTHS at the above link. Education is a good thing.

[johnaries]

143. Me too! My step son wanted a Pit Bull and I argued with him

because of the propaganda I had heard - that Pits eventually turn against their owners, etc.

His pit turned out to be very loyal, and very well behaved. I later was more or less "stuck" with a pit mix rescue dog, and he has turned out to be an excellent dog. He is a good guard dog, because people are afraid of him - but he is very cautious and doesn't attack - he only barks and snarls. In fact, if I am there he runs and hides behind me and barks from behind my legs!

Then again, I understand dogs and the "pack mentality". I also understand the "dog" concept of territory. I only had one dog challenge me for the Alpha position, and that was a Basenji/German Shephard mix. Once I established my position, he was the most loyal dog I have ever had. Oh, and if I had "sicced" him on you, you would have WISHED it was a Pit Bull attacking you. I watched him take a deer down. Very efficient. The deer was dead before I could even say "No!".

On the other hand, Pit's were bred to return prey without doing damage. Despite all the "jaw pressure" hype, if you have ever had your hand inside a pit's mouth as I have, they are very gentle. Powerful, but none of that "jaw lock" or "incredible jaw pressure" crap you hear. It's actually the most tender and soft and CAREFUL pressure I have felt. And being a dog lover I have had my hand inside a lot of dog's mouths.

Don't believe me? Play fetch with a Pit and then stick your hand inside his/her mouth as you take the stick back. Sometimes, that's the only way to get the stick back. They tend to be playful and want to keep the toy. They are very playful.

Now, I'm going to get hit wiht all kinds of "personal experiences" "oh, there was a scary pit on our street..." Well, did you try to make friends? As I said, Pits are very loyal. If you present a threat, they will take some kind of action. Usually, they will just "bark and snarl" to alert the Alpha and ward off potential threats.

In this case, I not only think the child threw rocks at the dog, I think the child's parents encouraged him to do so.

Flame me if you want, but I know dogs and I know human behaivor. The kid complained of a "scary dog" on his trip to school. Instead of saying "ignore it" or "try to make friends" the parents said "just throw rocks at it to scare it off".

I have seen this too many times before. And I have seen too many loyal animals suffer because humans didn't want their pride hurt. Personal pride vs a life.

Shameful.

[rwheeler31]

12. This is sad. I have listened to both sids of the

fight. Protect children , then try to retrain the dogs.

[flvegan]

15. How's the kid?

It says that the pit attacked the kid, and Mrs Haynes came to his rescue. Is the kid okay? Lots missing from this story, but that's not terribly surprising.

I hope the lady heals quickly.

[VMI Dem]

16. Outlaw the breed.

Bred for violence.

[flvegan]

23. Oh, such brilliance.

:eyes:

[WatchWhatISay]

88. Maybe you're right, maybe they have just had too much violence bred and trianed into them

but what do you do about the people that train them to be vicious? They get the dog for "protection", have no emotional ties to it, lock it up in the backyard by itself, where anger and frustration build, due to a lack of physical exercise and no socialization. Or worse, actively train it to attack without discrimination.

Can this stuff be "undone"? And how many generations would that take? But meanwhile what about the victims (besides the dogs themselves)?

[uppityperson]

108. Usually it takes only 1 generation. Anyone who mistreats a dog like that shouldn't be allowed to

have a dog. If a dog is mistreated like that, usually it takes only 1 generation to "undo" the damage since it is learned behavior by that dog, not passed on to its offspring.

[Mopar151]

118. Finally, a voice of sanity!

People don't keep mean, nasty dogs unless they LIKE mean, nasty dogs!!

The thing is, as Ceasar Mulan says, the owner of a large/agressive dog has a 24/7 responsibility to supervise/train/restrain that dog, and to be its "pack leader".

[johnaries]

144. And while we're at it, kill all the jews!

Same premise. Same philosophy.

[JanMichael]

17. Fence? Leash? nt?

[Critters2]

22. Apparently not. nt

[liquid diamond]

18. Will the dog be put down?

[Liberty Belle]

25. I know some won't want to hear this but....

These dogs are bred as fighting dogs, and it's in their genes. Even one that has not been trained like a junkyard dog, ie a dog with good owners, can turn on someone unexpectedly if something triggers that instinct.

A friend warned his son of just this possibility. The son owns a pit bull he's always sworn was a good dog. But later that day, while out walking his dog, the son was horrified when his dog unexpectedly attacked a small dog being walked past them on a leash. It grabbed the small dog byt he neck, shook it violently and broke its neck.

What if that had been a child?

[VMI Dem]

26. Exactly. It is not the dogs fault, it is genetics.

They should be outlawed for public safety reasons.

[LeftyMom]

27. I'd like to outlaw ignorant people for public safety reasons.

The dogs can stay.

[Critters2]

29. People will admit that the beagle's instinct to sniff, or the lab's retrieving skiils

are genetic. But they refuse to admit that pit bulls also have behaviors that are genetically programmed. Makes no sense to me.

[LeftyMom]

31. Honey, you have a phobia. It's okay.

Tall buildings scare me but I don't want them torn down.

[Critters2]

33. Don't call me honey. In fact, don't respond to me at all.

At least not until one of these animals has attacked a companion you love.


Have you actually fallen off a tall building?

[LeftyMom]

35. I've been bit by a dog. I don't blame the dog.

I got hit by a car too, I'm not afraid of riding my bike again and I don't want to ban Dodges. Shit happens.

It's a bit um, strange, to tell somebody not to respond to you and then ask them a direct question. Make up your mind.

[WatchWhatISay]

90. Calling them honey is out of line- its condescending

I don't get why so many people come here looking for a fight? Aren't we all supposed to be pretty much on the same side, yet tolerant of the difference in others. When you meet people publicly are you so aggressive?

[vanboggie]

47. Wrong!

From the ASPCA site:

"But did you know that Pit Bulls were actually bred to be trustworthy and friendly to people? These dogs actually earned the nickname "nursemaid's dog," because they were so reliable with young children."

Intolerance is so Rethuglican-esque. Study the breed and you will learn. See my link upthread.

[VMI Dem]

48. Pit bulls were genetically selected for their fighting prowess.

From the ASPCA site.

[LeftyMom]

57. Dogs bred for fighting were also bred for loyalty toward and non-aggression toward humans.

Pit Bulls don't have any behaviors that aren't typical of other terrier breeds, nor do they pose any greater hazards than similarly sized terriers of any sort.

They're just really plentiful. And appear to be moreso because any idiot who thinks they know dogs assumes any dog bigger than a bread box and smaller than a Volkswagen with a squarish head is a pit bull. I can't tell you the number of people who shy away from my family's timid 33 lb boxer because she's brindle colored and has a square head so they assume she's a pit bull and therefore horribly dangerous. The only danger from that dog is that she's a submissive urinator and if you scare her she's likely to tinkle on your shoes. :eyes:

[uppityperson]

49. Wrong. Try these websites about working pit bulls and breeding and educate yourself

http://www.workingpitbull.com/

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

Description:
Known for their intelligence and loyalty American Pit Bull Terriers make excellent, loving and protective companions despite the unfair press they receive. A common question regarding the APBT is, "How is this breed different from the American Staffordshire Terrier?". In the eyes of the United Kennel Club, they are the same breed, but many disagree. Some AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terriers are dual-registered as American Pit Bull Terriers with the UKC; however, this draws criticism from many who point out that the bloodlines have been separate for too long for these to be considered the same breed. The AKC, on the other hand, does not allow a UKC-registered American Pit Bull Terrier to be registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier. To be dual-registered, the dog must first be an AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terrier and then it can be registered with the UKC as an APBT -- but not vice versa... Choose from a responsible breeder and make sure the puppy is properly socialized and handled. Solid training will produce a tranquil, good, obedient, companion dog.

History/Origin:
His ancestors were brought to the United States in the mid - 1800's by Boston-Irish immigrants. Originally bred from a variety of bulldogs and terriers, American breeders increased his weight and gave him a more powerful head. A forbearer to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, they were originally bred to be a fighting dog. Bull baiting was banned in England in 1835 and these dogs are no longer being bred to fight. There is some complication in registries of this breed. The AKC considers the American Staffordshire Terrier as separate and distinct from the American Pit Bull Terrier, yet the UKC will register both as American Pit Bull Terriers (APBTs).
(clip)
Today the Pit Bull has evolved into a marvelous working and companion dog, used for purposes as varied as those it originally performed. Pit Bulls are employed as police/armed services dogs, search and rescuers, therapy animals, and livestock workers. They compete in all manner of organized dog sports, from herding to agility to conformation to obedience and the bite sports like Schutzhund and French Ring. They make loving pets for children and seniors, and everyone in between. The are indeed one of the most versatile breeds on the planet. Much of this is owed to the activities it once performed. The harshness and physical demands of the activities molded a strong, healthy, stable animal, one anyone should be proud to own.

Search and Rescue pit bulls
http://www.forpitssake.org/sar.html
http://www.mprgroup.net/news/ppfeb05.html

All of Crawford’s dogs are American Pit Bull Terriers. “Pit Bulls have all the characteristics – intelligence, strength, agility, courage, and determination – to make them ideal for search and rescue,” she says. “And one more thing.” She notes, “They do not understand the concept of giving up. And when you are out in the middle of the night searching for a missing child or someone’s missing grandparent suffering from Alzheimer’s disease, you want a dog that won’t quit!”

[roody]

66. "Responsible" and "breeder" do not go together.

5 million dogs and cats are euthanized in this country per year.

[uppityperson]

69. They should. Unfortunately they often don't. nt

[alittlelark]

50. They need to be 'grandfathered out'.. it's being done in many counties.

Those residing w/in the county are allowed to live out their lives. None may reproduce, no more may come in.

These laws were passed after similar catastrophic incidences - most involving children.



The DOGS are not the problem - their breeding temperment is.

I feel sorry for the dogs.:evilfrown:

[Critters2]

51. +1 nt

[LeftyMom]

61. There's nothing wrong with the dogs.

There's no evidence that they're responsible for more attacks on humans than would reflect their relative ubiquity. Actually, studies that have compared attack statistics with proportions of the dog population show that pit bulls are a comparatively safe breed, and breeds considered "good dogs" are responsible for more attacks per dog.

The problem is the media and easily manipulated morons who need something to be afraid of.

[charlie]

71. Hell, Irish Setters could become the public menace du jour

if they were the preferred breed of dogfight knuckleheads. Regular family-owned pits are friendly dorks, far less trouble than flighty neurotic-prone breeds like cocker spaniels.

[LeftyMom]

74. Of course. Back when I was a kid, the "ooh, scary" dogs were Dobermans.

Unless they're trained for guard duty, they're about as scary as I am.

[Madrone]

100. I was going to say EXACTLY that when I finished the thread.

Dobermans and German Shepherds. I remember a lot of "scary dog" stories from the 70's, early 80's.

An example - some guy w/ a dobie used to take the dog with him when he went to the store, and always brought the dog a candy bar (?). One time he forgot the treat, and when he showed up with nothing the family pet attacked him and ripped his face off.

OMG. Those dogs can't be trusted! You can have one for years and suddenly out of nowhere it will just SNAP and turn on you! Oh noes!

[CBR]

119. Yup, when I was younger it was Rotties.... nt

[roody]

87. We need to do that for all dogs.

We kill 5 million unwanted dogs and cats in this country per year.

[roody]

68. There's a pit bull on my bed

who would not hurt any being.

[roody]

85. Dogs bred to fight are bred to fight other dogs,

not people. In fact, a fighting dog has to like people because people referee the fight.

[Critters2]

99. Yet, if you argue that pit bulls shouldn't be allowed in dog parks,

because they're dog aggressive, the "they're just cute, loveable balls of fun" crowd still go all apoplectic. There's no logic to the way the pit bull advocates think.

[uppityperson]

111. Yet, if you argue that white men can't jump,

because black men are better basketball players, the open-minded go all apoplectic. There's no logic to the way tolerant people think.

[Critters2]

115. Pit bull people argue that their dogs ARE dog aggressive.

They're just not human aggressive. Somehow, that's supposed to make us feel better.

Try to keep up with which arguments are being made about these loveable cuddle doggies who keep killing people.

[roody]

145. All dogs should be under full control of their human. Everywhere.

[roody]

65. This dog is not a pit bull.

[uppityperson]

67. Making this a good example of false reporting and why those "statistics" are suspect

It isn't a pit bull but is being reported as one showing that pit bulls are dangerous.

[Trajan]

70. Oh .... A Pit Bull ....

How rare is this ?????

Here I was: expecting the same 'Tiny Poodle kills girl', or 'rampaging Cocker Spaniel devours classroom full of children and grandmotherly teachers' news story ....

How unusual that a Pit Bull was involved in this ... It's usually some other breed .... right ?

(yeah ... I'm being sarcastic ....)

[LeftyMom]

72. Hard to tell from the picture, but the dog appears to be some kind of mastiff or mastiff mix.

I'd give you a narrower guess of the possibilities if I got a full body shot (and weight would also help,) but that dog's no more a pit bull than I am.

[Trajan]

75. Nah .... It's a Weimaraner ...

Those little dogs are always running around, tearing other animals to shreds ....

Dontcha know .....

Oh .. Mastiff ..... what are they ?

NO match for a Beagle .... Those fellas are DEADLY !

[LeftyMom]

79. Hard to say without a full body shot but my money's on a Cane Corso (Italian Mastiff) mix.

The head's kind of a give-away, it's not quite the head shape of any of the several breeds collectively known as pit bulls.

There's sort of a cottage industry of backyard breeders cross-breeding any square-headed, vaguely scary looking dog and selling whatever pops out as a pit bull. Big sells to the sort of idiots who buy puppies in parking lots and whatnot so you tend to see a lot of mastiff hybrids and crosses out of the backyard breeders.

[uppityperson]

78. OMG YOU'RE A PIT BULL!!!!111 It looks like a mastiff mix to me too, the jowls

especially. I did a search for any other story or picture and can't find one.

[flvegan]

73. Dog bite threads on DU are almost always "pit bull" related.

It's amazing how even a progressive website such as this can have members buying into bullshit media hyped fear and hysteria.

[uppityperson]

76. You must not have read the whole subject line. nt

[ConsAreLiars]

77. Apart from the "if it bites it's a pit bull" logic used to ID this dog, it doesn't

look like any I've seen. Look at the shape of the skull and the deep cleft, and then look at these pics posted at: http://www.apbtconformation.com/head.htm . Sadly many of those pics show dogs whose ears have been half chopped off.

[roody]

80. The ear chopping is cruel.

[ConsAreLiars]

86. Indeed. My SO's

first SO and my second SO (leaving the kids out of the ranking of course) is an AmStaff (presumably -- a street rescue with no papers) and her ears are absolutely expressive of her (the dog's) state of being. High up and straight forward is absolutely focused concentration, streamlined back for a chase when the eyes are primary, at 360 degrees for situational surveillance, or totally drooped in sadness. And several more variants. Cropping the ears means cutting off the dog's chances to be understood, and the cropper's ability to understand.

[astonamous]

89. So true about the ears...they are a form of communication!

This guy's ears were cut off with scissors or box cutter in an attempt to make him look mean. He is a Bull Mastiff and Pekingese mix.



He is a handsome boy without his ears, but how horrible to have them cut off and probably without any type of anesthesia. I hate people!

[ConsAreLiars]

94. Even with the ears cut, you can look into the eyes and see something that is missing in

far too many people, including those who want to type-label the "other" according to some stereotype. Here's Lucy the Very Gentle Put Bull, ears intact:



I've another with her looking totally dejected, imploring me to reunite her with her one true SO which I'll add after I do the work needed to get it down to a small size and up on the web.

Edit: Here, Lucy asking me why I am not doing the right thing:

[uppityperson]

107. Nice dog. Bull mastiff/peke? that image makes me smile. Looks like a Pit Bull too

thank you for posting that picture. I'd like to see how many "OMG PIT BULL!!!" people would incorrectly id him. Nice jowls.

[astonamous]

109. DNA is a wonderful thing! If there were any

Staffordshire Terrier in him, I would say he is a Pit Bull, but there isn't and he is the biggest mush head. He was abused and only weighed 47 pounds when we got him so I wouldn't place him in a home with little kids and would be very careful about placing him in a home with an inexperienced owner. Whoever bred him was looking for a dog that would fight and this dog won't, but he needs a calm family because he has been traumatized and we don't want him to ever feel afraid again.


We named him Eli THE Great and he is ready for his loving forever family. They are out there somewhere.

[LeftyMom]

83. Like I said upthread, I think the dog is a mastiff mix.

Probably a Cane Corso. But almost certainly that dog's primary genetic makeup is kind of mastiff, the head shape and that cleft and snout are dead giveaways.

[ConsAreLiars]

91. I noticed that. Thank you. Here's a pic of that breed.

I had done a bit of looking around for head shape/breed identifiers, but, as usual, a quick search is no substitute for a four-year degree. But looking for mastiff and head shape I came across this very similar image from http://chestofbooks.com/animals/dogs/Dog-Breeding/The-Mastiff.html :

[WillieW]

92. Bad breeding/training.. The dog will surely be put down.

[comtec]

97. No dog that has drawn human blood may live

that seems to be the general way of things.
the moment that dog bit that woman and drew blood it's life was over.
whatever the motivations - either taunting or viciousness brought on by genetics or training, that dog's life was forfeit as soon as it bit that woman deep.

I think the more horrifying fact is this lady may loose her leg for being a good Samaritan!
who pays for that?

Universal health care for all... including animals, I hope, some day.

[Coventina]

98. Not true. There are mitigating circumstances in some cases.

For instance: my sister's dog bit my mother pretty badly, but he was not put down. Why? Because he did it out of self-defense. My mother was choking him for pulling down her laundry.

Humans can "snap" and do violent things out of their character. In this case, it was my mother.

[comtec]

101. But did you call animal control or the police on the dog?

I imagine not.
If the police or animal control are involved, as I understand it, the dog's life is forfeit.
Unfair as it may be.
Dogs can not be allowed to get used to the taste of human blood - at least that's what i've been told.

[Coventina]

103. Point taken, I don't think we did (it was a long time ago).

Although my mother did have to go and get stitches.

The myth about getting a taste of human blood is just that - a myth.

Naturally, if biting gets them what they want, they will continue biting, but dogs *usually* don't bite humans with the intention of eating them. (I say usually, because there are cases where dogs consume humans that are either very small, or under extreme cicumstances like being left alone with a dead body). But generally, we are not seen as prey to dogs. They generally bite us because they feel threatened in some way.

Having said that, a biting dog is not acceptable, and a dog that has a pattern of biting should be put down in most cases.

[surrealAmerican]

102. What a brave thing that woman did.

I hope she has her medical bills paid in full.

[kwassa]

110. Here is a real story about pit bulls killing a man.

This was a local story from last month. Of course, it must be a mistake of some kind, pit bulls would never really do something like this.

http://www.loudouni.com/news/2009-08-11/autopsy-confirms-fatal-pit-bull-attack


Autopsy Confirms Fatal Pit Bull Attack
Dogs Euthanized at Owner's Request

By John Toler Thursday, 13 August 2009

What had started as a welfare-check call to the Leesburg Police Department around 2 p.m. Monday quickly unfolded into a tragedy.

The incident started earlier in the day when a relative tried to call Carter Delaney, 20, at his residence at 121 Plaza Street in Leesburg, and received no answer. Concerned, he went to the home to see what was wrong. Upon arriving at the residence, the relative noticed that Delaney’s vehicle was parked in the driveway–and two pit bull terriers that were supposed to be kept outside roaming around inside the house. The Leesburg Police were called, and since dangerous animals might be involved, Loudoun County Animal Control officers were dispatched to assist.

Upon entering the residence, officers found Delaney’s body in the lower level of the house, the apparent victim of a mauling by the pit bulls. Near his body was a smaller dog, also appearing to have been killed by the pit bulls. Two other dogs in cages–described as a pit bull puppy and a cocker spaniel–were not harmed.

[uppityperson]

112. Who has said no pit bull would ever bite? Just becaues one might does NOT mean ALL will.

Like german shepards. They bite and kill also. ANY big dog is capable of that. Even huskies (live in AK a while and you will learn this).

It is a lie that anyone has said a particular type of dog would never bite.

[Critters2]

114. The issue isn't biting. The issue is serious to fatal bites. nt

[TxRider]

120. Exactly, it the genetics that say hold on for life until it stops moving.

As in grab that big bull's nose and hang on no matter what.

[Critters2]

121. All dogs were bred to do a job, and, without a lot of CAREFUL breeding,

the characteristics to do that job are continued from generation to generation. This is why my beagle can smell things I can't, why labs love to retrieve, why terriers are tenacious. Dogs bred for fighting are going to be aggressive, without very focused, careful breeding. If put bull breeders were careful and focused, there wouldn' be so many pit bulls ending up in the wrong hands.

[PVnRT]

123. I suppose it's completely impossible that his dogs got into a fight

and he got in the middle of it and got killed? Nah.

Interesting that, in your story, those MEAN VICIOUS DEVIL DOG PIT BULLS didn't attack the people investigating the house. Odd.

It appears that the victim was watching two dogs, and had a dog of his own, a pug mix. Mixing dogs that don't know each other is always iffy as they establish dominance, and pugs can be vicious little fuckers in that situation.

No, it's easier to just scream PIT BULL PIT BULL PIT BULL and make yourself feel better, rather than think about it.

[Critters2]

125. Yeah. Pugs kill people all the time. nt

[PVnRT]

127. Good job ignoring everything I wrote

Now, how about you address the whole dogs-getting-to-know-each-other angle. Or is it just easier to wallow in ignorance?

[Critters2]

129. A friend of mine brought her Cav and her cocker by my house,

where they met my beag. They'd never met before, but spent the whole weekend together.

No one was killed.

[PVnRT]

131. Oh, well, you're right. Your one experience is all the proof that is required

I mean, when my dog, who doesn't bark and is terrified of the vacuum cleaner and thunder snapped at my uncle's pug who wouldn't leave her alone...that must have just been propaganda implanted into my head by the Pit Bull Conspiracy.

[Critters2]

134. We get it.

All pit bulls are loveable bundles of cuteness.

People just keep dying around them. It's so frustrating.

[PVnRT]

135. Please point out where I've said that

Or, for that matter, where anyone has said that every pit bull is perfect in every way.

[uppityperson]

148. What IS it with the dichotomous thinking? Can people really not understand that it isn't "all evil"

or "all wonderful"? Seriously. It's so frustrating when people INSIST on either "all are wonderful" or "all are terrible".

[kwassa]

130. I knew those pit bulls were innocent!

They may have bit that man to death, but it really wasn't their fault.

They were just misunderstood.

It was that pug mix instigator who should be punished.

[PVnRT]

132. So, no actual discussion then? Gotcha.

[kwassa]

139. what is to discuss? some pure speculation on your part?

an imaginary scenario of what might have happened, based on no known facts of any kind?

and the point of that would be what?

[Critters2]

133. +1 nt

[PVnRT]

126. Funny, you read the whole story, and you find this:

A true animal lover, Joyce has petted the Pit Bull numerous times before. "When I told her they were going to euthanize the dog, she started to cry. She don't like to hear about that, she don't like to hear about animals getting hurt," her husband said.

Which corroborates this:

The owner of the Pit Bull is sorry this ever happened. She tells me the dog is around babies and people everyday and has never once shown aggression. "She just never acted like this before so I feel like something had to provoke my dog to make her do something like this," said the Pit Bull owner, Cachara Stubblefield.

Clearly, the dog is a murderous monster out to kill children just walking by and minding their own business.

[Critters2]

128. LOL! nt

[MisterP]

138. update

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6598986