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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:19 PM
Original message
Poverty in the United States and the Democratic 2008 Presidential Candidates
When history judges us, as a nation and as individuals, it will ask: what did we do to end poverty? How we answer this call will forever define us as a nation – John Edwards

If I believed, as many do, that poverty in the United States is mainly caused by deficient character traits of individual poor people, rather than by the structure of society, then I wouldn’t think that it should be an important political issue. But I don’t believe that, and I DO think that poverty should be an important political issue in our country.

Children who are born into poverty have relatively limited access to a good education, as demonstrated by a study that showed that parental income predicts 80% of the variance in college entry exam scores. This facilitates a vicious cycle of poverty, whereby deficient educational attainment leads to low wage jobs and subsistence living. A related issue is the strong correlation between race and poverty. According to the 1999 U.S. census, 33% of black children lived in poverty, compared to 13.5% of white children.

Anti-union policies promulgated by government, which accelerated under Ronald Reagan and have broken modern records under the George W. Bush administration, play an important role in the creation and maintenance of poverty by keeping down wages and benefits for the working poor and middle class. For example, only 11% of union workers lack access to health care benefits, compared to three times that many non-union workers.

The widening income gap in our country itself facilitates poverty. I’m no economist, but common sense shows how a huge income gap can facilitate poverty. Take housing, for example. Many wealthy individuals in the U.S. today own not one, but several huge homes. This drives up the cost of housing to the point where many can’t afford to own a home, so that there were 3 million homeless people in our country as of 2002. How can huge wealth gaps NOT drive up the cost of housing? As long as a large pool of people are willing to spend several hundred thousand or millions of dollars for a home or several homes, what does that do to the incentives for builders to build affordable housing for low income families?

Many Americans, especially Republicans, say that the wealth gap is natural and good. They say that the wealth gap is the due mostly to the fact that the wealthy “create” wealth, and therefore they deserve to keep all the wealth they “create”. Thus, the average CEO, who makes 431 times the income of his average employee, makes that much money because he has “created” it. But that explanation doesn’t seem consistent with the fact that most CEOs get to determine their own salary. Do they carefully determine how much wealth they’ve created before deciding on their salary level – or do they make that decision based on other considerations? Nor does that explanation account for the fact that the wealthy have very disproportionate influence on the enactment of legislation in our country, which they utilize to enhance their wealth and power even further. For example, they utilize their political (i.e. economic) muscle to persuade legislators to relax restrictions on their “right” to pollute our environment in their quest for greater profits. Does that lead to the creation of wealth – or is its main effect the subtraction of wealth through the deterioration of our environment?

This is how one of our greatest Presidents, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, explained the causes and consequences of record breaking poverty in our country during the Great Depression:

Throughout the Nation, opportunity was limited by monopoly. Individual initiative was crushed in the cogs of a great machine. The field open for free business was more and more restricted. Private enterprise, indeed, became too private. It became privileged enterprise, not free enterprise.

An old English judge once said: "Necessitous men are not free men." Liberty requires opportunity to make a living-a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor-other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.


Current status and trends in poverty in the United States

The poverty rate in the United States declined during every year of the Clinton administration, from 15.1% in 1993 to 11.3% in 2000. Following that decline to a rate that hadn’t been seen since the Carter administration, poverty steadily increased during the administration of George W. Bush. As of 2004 there were 37 million Americans in poverty, which was 12.7% of the U.S. population. Almost half of all Americans have experienced poverty for at least a year of their life by the time they’re 60 (and after 60 the poverty rate goes up substantially.) And most families living in poverty contain at least one working person.

Furthermore, the above noted figures, based on the “official” poverty line in the United States, substantially underestimate the poverty rate in the United States. Although the official bar for “poverty level” in the United States is $20,000 annual income for a family of four, the basic needs for a family that must pay for child care and health care is in the range of $30,000 to $40,000.


The politics of poverty in the United States

Despite its importance and the large numbers of people affected by it, poverty is almost a taboo subject in American politics today. An American politician can hardly talk about it without being accused of “class warfare”. And it is widely considered to be bad political strategy to talk about it.

Why? Because the poor, and those who consider themselves susceptible to poverty, have relatively little political clout. In contrast, the wealthy fuel the campaigns of Presidential (and other) candidates, with the result that most politicians feel dependent upon their campaign contributions. Consequently, time and again we find that policies which are favored by the good majority of American citizens do not get enacted into law. One of the best examples of that is universal health care, which has been consistently favored by a clear majority of American citizens, and yet has never been enacted into law.

There have been some great leaders who have dared to make the P word into a major political issue: I’ve already mentioned FDR’s thoughts on the matter; Lyndon Johnson declared a “War on Poverty” and devoted a large portion of his Presidency to fighting that war (though I believe that LBJ did great damage to our country by getting us involved in the Vietnam War, I have to give credit where it’s due); Martin Luther King spent the last years of his life fighting against poverty as much or more than he fought against racial bigotry and discrimination; and former Senator and Democratic Party nominee for President, George McGovern, has devoted much of his post-political life to fighting against world hunger.

Nevertheless, it is rare in today’s United States to hear major political figures talk about our poverty problem. And that is why I so much admire those politicians who have the courage and the decency to do that.


The positions of the Democratic 2008 candidates for President on poverty in the United States

I looked at the presidential campaign websites of the eight declared Democratic Presidential candidates in order to assess their views and intentions regarding poverty in our country. I didn’t assess this issue with regard to the two major undeclared candidates (Clark and Gore) because the absence of a comparable website made that a much more difficult task – although Clark did emphasize poverty during his 2004 campaign for President.

Of the eight declared candidates, most had something to say about education, jobs, and/or health care. The only one whose Presidential website had nothing to say about any of those issues was Clinton’s. I don’t know why that is, especially since her work on health care when she was First Lady certainly demonstrated a great deal of interest in that subject. Perhaps the explanation is that her front-runner status has led her to a high degree of political caution. On the one hand that is understandable. But on the other hand, how do we know that that political caution won’t continue if she is elected President? I’m in no mood for that kind of political caution at this time. But please point out to me if I’ve missed something or if you think I’ve been unfair to her about this.

Of the remaining seven declared Democratic candidates, I think it’s fair to say that Edwards and Kucinich deal with poverty issues to a far greater extent and in much more detail than any of the other candidates. Actually, Kucinich doesn’t exactly mention poverty directly, but he does extensively discuss a wide range of poverty related issues. Edwards, on the other hand, has explicitly described a plan for cutting poverty by a third within a decade and eliminating it within three decades.

I did not check out the websites of the Republican candidates on this issue because that would be like …. uhhhh …. That would be like looking for gold in a pile of cow manure.

Since Edwards and Kucinich are the only ones whose 08 Presidential websites discuss the problem in great detail, I’ll spend the rest of this post summarizing their plans for this issue.


The Edwards and Kucinich plans for dealing with poverty

Health care
Both Edwards and the Kucinich advocate universal health care coverage for all Americans. Kucinich specifically advocates a single payer (federal government) plan to accomplish this, while Edwards’ plan works through collaboration with the states. But it is clear that Edwards is not talking about mere access to health insurance, as the introduction to his plan says “We have to stop using words like ‘access to health care’ when we know with certainty that those words mean something less than universal care. Who are you willing to leave behind without the care he needs? ….”

Education
Both candidates would expand access to pre-school programs and invest more in public secondary education. Edwards would expand opportunity to attend college by providing free tuition in exchange for part time work, whereas Kucinich talks about making college more affordable by reversing limits on welfare for college students, for example by declaring home child care to be work activity. Edwards would create second chance schools for high school dropouts.

Jobs
Edwards says that all Americans who are able and willing to work should have the right to do so, and he would create jobs so that all Americans would have that right. Kucinich also speaks of creating jobs, and he is more specific about how he would do it, but doesn’t claim that he would be able to create jobs for all Americans willing to work. Edwards would also improve wages by strengthening labor laws so that all workers are able to form and join unions if they so desire, whereas Kucinich talks more generally about safeguarding workers’ rights. Both candidates speak of the need to raise the federal minimum wage. Edwards promises a specific figure of $7.50 an hour, while Kucinich notes that voters would support a raise to $8.00 an hour. Kucinich would pull out of NAFTA and otherwise take aggressive steps to prevent American jobs from moving out of the country.

Housing
Edwards talks about expanding affordable housing by: Making the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) into a “force for economic opportunity”, which would include the issuance of a million housing vouchers to low income families; offering a tax credit to working families who are first time home buyers; and cracking down on predatory lending.

Corporate accountability
Kucinich offers a challenge to unbridled corporate power by stating that “Government at the state and federal levels must reclaim its rightful role as regulator in the public interest…” He would do this by regulating corporations to protect workers’ rights and the environment, restoring fair competition, making corporations pay their fair share of taxes, and prosecuting corporate crime.

Taxes
Edwards would provide a new tax credit for low income working Americans of $500 per year. He would also expand the earned income tax credit (EITC) by $750 for single adults and eliminate the marriage penalty on the EITC. Kucinich’s discussion of taxes centers on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. In order to help pay for the many social programs that he advocates, he would reverse all of the Bush tax cuts on those earning more than $405,000 per year, while maintaining for now current tax rates on those earning less than that amount.

Social Security
Kucinich would make safeguarding of the Social Security Trust Fund a top priority and would restore full retirement benefits beginning at age 65. He would add to the Trust Fund by increasing the interest rate paid to it by the U.S. Treasury, and he is dead set against privatizing Social Security.


Concluding thoughts

A recent editorial in The Nation, titled “Time to Act on Inequality”, dealt with this issue:

Might we hear the candidates address this national scandal and say concretely what they intend to do about it? Republicans, we know, will duck and dodge. But Democratic hopefuls are not exactly speaking out on inequality either. John Edwards is an admirable exception; he has declared unilaterally that income inequality is no longer a taboo subject?

Voters understand what's happening and they are overwhelmingly distressed, as the Pew Research Center's recent comprehensive polling confirmed. Some 73 percent of Americans agree with this statement: "Today it's really true that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer." More striking is the fact that two-thirds of affluent families (incomes of $75,000 and higher) agree.

I certainly agree with that assessment. It is long past due that politicians start speaking out on this issue and doing something about it. The huge levels of income inequality that we see today in the United States are not fair, are not consistent with the principles upon which our country was founded as enunciated in our Declaration of independence, are bad for democracy, and have their origins in bad and corrupt government policy that picked up steam during the “Reagan Revolution” of the 1980s and have reached record breaking and dangerous levels under George W. Bush.

I greatly admire John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich for speaking out on these issues. When strong leaders speak about things like this they gain new legitimacy in the eyes of the American public. John Edwards has shown that he is not afraid to speak directly to the American people about the grave problem of poverty in our country. Dennis Kucinich has shown that he is not afraid to challenge the virulent abuses of corporate power that we have seen, nor is he afraid to state outright that he will reverse the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Other declared Democratic candidates have been much more cautious about what they say about these issues. I am very tired of all the caution shown by Democrats in recent years and months. I believe that most Americans are also tired of that, and that they will respond well to the kind of direct talk characteristic of John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich.
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. k/r I like both these candidates.
Thanks for the analysis. I've bookmarked it and I hope it's okay with you if I pass this around.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Sure, go ahead and pass it around
That's what I write these things for. It'a great that you can use it.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thank you...
you better believe it can be used!:yourock: :kick:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's great to hear, thank you
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. A trip to my local Wal*Mart,
Edited on Sat Apr-14-07 08:59 PM by jedr
shows me that those who have the least to gain from Republican rule are those who support it the most. Those who have been driven from the middle class into ( or close to) poverty are those who who feel that the "tax and spend" liberals the ones who placed them there. You can talk till your blue in the face and even if you get to them they will go to bogus single issues like guns or gays. To my way of thinking re pubs boil down to two types, the greedy and the gullible. It's hard to convince either of them.....On edit: I think Edwards is an excellent candidate....2nd edit: if you want to get to these two groups you need to get it down to bumper sticker mentality...for the gullible; Re pubs stole your jobs and gave them to India...for the greedy; you need a middle class with money in their pockets if you want to make money.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Yes, I agree that there are a lot of gullible Republicans out there
The Republicans pretty much have control of the news media, and they put out a lot of disinformation and ignore a lot of important stuff in order to persuade people that liberals -- and the poor -- are responsible for all their problems. That is one reason of couse why poverty is such a taboo subject in our country.

And you're right that they're very hard to convince. But I think that it will take a lot more than bumper sticker slogans to do that. I believe that one ingredient that will be very important will be a charismatic leader who is willing to stick to the point and persistently argue it and fight back against the media whores who try to trip him up and spew out the disinformation. I believe that Edwards can do that.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. They're my dream team!
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. IMHO All of the candidates need to address this issue
because the biggest percentage of this country will be living in poverty, or close to it. We can not all work in service based industry. Who would we be servicing?? 90% of the country servicing the richest 10%? My personal dream team? Edwards/Richardson
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. You support "3 Strikes Your Out" and The Death Penalty?
:shrug:

And the DLC????
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Yes, I believe that this is an extremely important issue for the candidates to address
And it will certainly help to determine who I vote for in the primaries.

A nation should be concerned with all of its citizens, not only the ones who are wealthy enough to contribute to their campaigns.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. No offense but this OP should have a Dial-Up 'book' warning !
Go Kucinich!!!!!!!!! I like Edwards too, as a person. Nice guy. Not sure about him though
(his judgement) but a pretty face, matched with a progressive, committed, experienced
candidate with solid integrity (Kucinich didn't vote for the IWR) could make a dream team!!



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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I think that Kucinich could make a GREAT President
In fact, he would be my first choice of all the candidates for President.

But not for the Democratic nominee. It is very unfortunate, and it pains me to believe this, but I do believe that he doesn't have a chance of winning the Presidency -- at least not at this time. I don't know the precise reasons for that, though I could guess at a few of them. Perhaps part of the reason is that he is so outspoken on some very important issues -- which is precisely the reason why I and so many others at DU like him so much.

But my belief that he doesn't have a reasonable chance for the Presidency is simply based on a realistic look at the numbers. He ran in 04 and he never made a dent in the polls. How far did he get? -- I don't recall seeing him above 3% at any time. Same thing this time around. I don't fault him for that in the least. But I would rather put my support behind someone like Edwards (or possibly Clark or Gore if they decide to run), who I believe stands a reasonable chance of winning.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-14-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
7.  I like the artical .
I don't know if the day will ever come to stop poverty . I remember RFK was on the issue of poverty and look what happened to him .

As the artical has listed this issue is getting worse as the jobs vanish and this in no way can describe the people who had good jobs as unwilling to work or just uneducated or born into poverty .

Once this problem has gotten worse as it has at an alarming rate it is much more difficult to pull out of the nose dive .
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. "RFK ... and look what happened to him"
Yes, and then there was JFK and MLK and Paul Wellstone too. And there have been a number of others as well recently:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5495235&mesg_id=5495235

It sometimes makes me wonder if the caution shown by many of our Democratic leaders is based on something other than just political caution. It is a very scary thought. :scared:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. A great post. It's bizarre how we take for granted the fact that the dregs of our society,
of our world, at least in the UK and US, rule our respective countries with no other goal than their own enrichment and aggrandisement - no matter how dire the price paid by our peoples. How could we do otherwise? The knowledge of it, when we do think about it is almost too much to bear. At all times, people have been obliged to accommodate their apprehension of the truth to what they could tolerate without living in a perpetual rage. The worst of it, of course, is that our struggle to survive in the teeth of the seemingly endless tide of pillage and plunder that they are orchestrating, just doesn't seem to register with them. at. all.

I once read that, in India, there is not only a caste of untouchables, but also of unseeables, who could only come out at night. Our MSM purvey the satanic propaganda of the aforesaid sinister paymasters of theirs, proudly proclaiming that our countries are thriving as never before, as if the rest of us were not only untouchables, but unseeables. Nobody would be more aware of that than the homeless on our streets, whose helplessness as a result of such depredation is too much even for us to handle, who may not be that much more secure.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I'm with you on that -- very insightful remarks
"People have been obliged to accommodate their apprehension of the truth to what they could tolerate without living in a perpetual rage".

I believe that that's a very key insight. MOST people of the world, at all times in history, IMO, have accommodating their apprehension of the truth way to much. By such accommodation, history has been distorted and thereby our capacity to learn from history has been greatly diminished -- with tragic consequences.

Better that people should seek the truth, and to hell with accommodating it. Learn to tolerate the truth, at least enough that it will become visible to us. By "tolerating" it I don't mean that we give up the right to seek to change virulent policies and make things better. Rather, we learn to see AND to acknowledge things as they are, so that we have the knowledge and understanding to begin to change what is unacceptable.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Unfortunately, our education systems encourage non-academic children to
Edited on Sun Apr-15-07 03:11 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
doubt their own intelligence and aptitude for good sense, so that it is easier for governments to persuade them not to believe their own "lying eyes".

Christ's precept that we should ALL be "as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves" must rank up their with the
Catholic Church's other reputedly best-kept secret: its Social Doctrine.

This is an excerpt from paragraph 20 of the encyclical, Rerum Novarum, issued by Pope Leo XIII in 1891, as cited in Wikipedia:

".... They (the wealthy owner and the employer) are reminded that, according to natural reason and Christian philosophy, working for gain is creditable, not shameful, to a man, since it enables him to earn an honorable livelihood; but to misuse men as though they were things in the pursuit of gain, or to value them solely for their physical powers - that is truly shameful and inhuman. Again justice demands that, in dealing with the working man, religion and the good of his soul must be kept in mind. Hence, the employer is bound to see that the worker has time for his religious duties; that he be not exposed to corrupting influences and dangerous occasions; and that he be not led away to neglect his home and family, or to squander his earnings. Furthermore, the employer must never tax his work people beyond their strength, or employ them in work unsuited to their sex and age. His great and principal duty is to give every one what is just. Doubtless, before deciding whether wages are fair, many things have to be considered; but wealthy owners and all masters of labor should be mindful of this - that to exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one's profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine. To defraud any one of wages that are his due is a great crime which cries to the avenging anger of Heaven. "Behold, the hire of the laborers... which by fraud has been kept back by you, crieth; and the cry of them hath entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth."(6) Lastly, the rich must religiously refrain from cutting down the workmen's earnings, whether by force, by fraud, or by usurious dealing; and with all the greater reason because the laboring man is, as a rule, weak and unprotected, and because his slender means should in proportion to their scantiness be accounted sacred. Were these precepts carefully obeyed and followed out, would they not be sufficient of themselves to keep under all strife and all its causes?<2>

PS: When I wrote that it didn't seem to register with them at all, I was referring to "the Great and the Good", who govern our lives; although its applicability, to some extent, to many unworldly working people, is, regrettably, obviously also true.

God clearly did not intend the division of labour that seems to have been perpetuated down the centuries, whereby the worldy-wise grow ever more cynically cunning and ruthless, while the unworldly-wise, remain innocent of the way in which they are manipulated by the former to their great detriment.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I was not familiar with that -- Interesting document with lots of good advice
Too bad that the Christian Right doesn't appear to be interested in that kind of advice.

"Were these precepts carefully obeyed and followed out, would they not be sufficient of themselves to keep under all strife and all its causes?"

Yes, I can see that that would decrease quite a bit of strife -- though of course the extent to which one followed it would be open to quite a bit of interpretation.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I particularly like its insistence (which I learned of elsewhere) that the
economy exists to serve man, not man, the economy (which latter, of course, is the bedrock of our monolithic corporatist capitalism).

"The Encyclical is part historical, part sociological and fundamentally religious. Where it will divide from much that passes for modern economics is in its insistence that the economy is not an end in itself; that it exists to serve man; and that man is a spiritual being and not, as Bertrand Russell would have it, merely 'a mammal.'"

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That our economy exists to serve man rather than as an end in itself SHOULD be an undisputed concept
But it certainly doesn't seem to work that way in practice.

Of course, some argue that there is little or no difference, in that a good economy will "raise all boats". But in reality, the "booming economy" that we see today serves only the wealthy and hurts most other people. It's hard to tell to what extent those who equate a good economy with the welfare of people really believe that.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. They are liars. Barefaced, unconscionable liars. It really is as simple as that.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 07:03 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
If "trickle down", - which amounts to the same thing, just another facet of their specious prism - worked, India would have left the West for dead after WWII.

Their putative guru (a laughable concept, if ever there was one), Adam Smith was clear that they could not be trusted in government, for example, because of their narrow focus on their own commercial self-interest. The so-called "Hidden Hand" Smith spoke about was MORALITY! A guiding morality. The man was a moral philosopher. He recognised the crucial nature of the bonds that bind society in mutual self-interest - not an exclusive self-interest of one party, like the far-right head-bangers who religiously, if blasphemously, evoke him as their guiding light; all, to the infinite detriment of the rest of society (and, of course, ultimately themselves), the very existence of which, in fact, they don't even recognise! Hence, they have the bare-faced, psychopathic gall to tell us that our countries are more fabuously wealthy than ever before in the history of the world....

Actually, their wee foibles are adverted to in the Old Testament in some detail!

Incidentally, if Socialism was smart enough for Einstein, it sure should be smart enough for the rest of us. If you read his analysis of the way the big corporations operate and the impact of their machinations on the rest of us, you realisie that he was not just interested in phsyics by any means. He tried to understand the world, wholistically.

This notion that commerce and science should be free of all moral restraints is philosophically atheistic, of course. First the atheists scoffed at the Big Bang, now they've had to accommodate it and say it disproves Creation! Now a couple of American scientist may have discovered that the universe is anisotropic, asymmetric, and they're furous, because it would tend to have a similar implication.
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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. I would like to recognize the hard work that went into this post and thank you for doing it. nt
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Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. The improvements under Clinton were subtle...
Edited on Sun Apr-15-07 07:39 PM by Matsubara
Even under Clinton, the rich fared extremely well, while the poor made modest gains which stood out in contrast to the misery that marked the Reagan-Bush era.

At least Clinton offset some of his more onerous anti-poor policies like welfare deform, NAFTA and increases in regressive government fees with improvements in access to medical care for poor kids, an increase in the paltry minimum wage, funding job corps and one-stop centers etc.

But I had hoped that Clinton would have done more to reverse the Reagan-Bush era slashing of marginal tax rates for the rich as well as pursued a single-payer health plan rather than the corporate giveaway he and Hillary concocted.

I get the sense that Edwards is more in tune with the needs of working people than Clinton was, even though nobody was better at Clinton at connecting with them.

Hillary, on the other hand... Hmmm...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes, I feel much as you do about all of this
I also would have liked to see Clinton do more for the poor and middle class during his Presidency. And yet, the poverty rate did decrease substantially under him. I do believe as you do that Edwards is more in tune with our needs than Clinton was, and that he would be one of the best Presidents we've had in a long time.

Welcome to DU Matsubara :toast:
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Matsubara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Thanks.
Nice avvie. Boxer is awesome. I was still in SF when we re-elected her in a LANDSLIDE. He he.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you for this post - this is one of my top issues in choosing a candidate to support.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Me too!
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kick and Rec
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-15-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. ditto
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