The Kucinich Prediction: Here's what's going to happen ...

[grahamhgreen]

This just in from Congressman Kucinich:


A lesson in politics. The Kucinich Prediction: Here's what's going to happen ...

1. House will make a big deal about keeping/putting a public option in HR3200 because it competes with insurance companies and will keep insurance rates low.
2. The White House will refer to the President's speech last week where he spoke favorably of the public option.
3. The Senate will kill the competitive public option in favor of non-competitive "co-ops". Senate leaders like Kent Conrad have said the votes to pass a public option were never there in the Senate.
4. The bill will come to a House-Senate Conference Committee without the public option.
5. House Democrats will be told to support the conference report on the legislation to support the President.
6. The bill will pass, not with a "public option" but with a private mandate requiring 30 million uninsured to buy private health insurance (if one doesn't already have it). If you are broke, you may get a subsidy. If you are not broke, you will get a fine if you do not purchase insurance.

This legislative sausage will be celebrated as a new breakthrough and will be packaged as health insurance reform. However, the bill may require a Surgeon General's warning label: Your Money or Your Life!

The bill that Congress passes may pale in comparison to the bill that millions of Americans will get every month/year for having or not having private health insurance.

It will take four years for the new legislation to go into effect. During that time we are going to build a constituency of millions in support of real health care, a constituency which will be recognized and a cause which is right and just: Health Care as a Civil Right.

Join our efforts. Sign the petition. http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition/ Contribute. Insure a democratic future.


- NO PAY OR PUNISH CRAPSURANCE! -

[villager]

1. *if* that happens, then a massive "rent strike" against insurance companies will be needed...

n/t

[tridim]

2. The sky is not falling DK

Although I do enjoy your weekly FUD sessions, just for the entertainment value.

I never expected DK to morph into such a whining loser.

[Old Hob]

16. did you expect him to fall into line and support a bill that is appearing less and less progressive?

[tridim]

18. "Appearing" is the key word here.

You and DK apparently believe everything the MSM/corporatists/GOP push, I don't. That's the difference.

I listen to the words spoken by the people who will actually vote on the bill.

[Old Hob]

24. a mandate with fines for non-compliance and no public option is not progressive. period.

Unless the people who vote on the bill are saying that there is definitely going to be a public option available to the entire public, this bill is steaming pile of unprogressive dog shit. and I haven't heard anyone say that btw.

[grahamhgreen]

28. +1

[tridim]

30. A public option will be in the final bill. Period.

Ask the President or the speaker. You're making shit up, just like the media and the Insurance companies.

[Old Hob]

35. I heard what the Pres had to say about the PO

only for those without insurance already, limited markets based on arbitrary opinions about what constitutes affordable and what doesn't, not tax payer funded so not very different from a regular insurance company, an additional step we can take (but not will take or must take, etc. yeah, it may be in there but by the time they get done watering it down, it will be about as useful as a trapdoor in the bottom of a canoe.

[mike_c]

55. bookmarked for later I-told-you-so...

...in one direction or the other. Kucinich is usually right, you know.

[Winterblues]

65. Exactly where does Kucinich work again, I forgot?

I wonder if he ever discusses anything with colleagues? :shrug:

[damntexdem]

3. If the House passes a bill with a public option, why would the PO not go to the conference committee

The statement is not that a bill will emerge from the conference committee without a PO, rather that it would not go with a PO. Why, if the House votes for it? Isn't that what the conference committee is for, to resolve differences between House and Senate bills (and to give pols and lobbyists another place to make back-room deals)?

[skipos]

4. Maybe he should use his power of persuasion to work towards changing this outcome. nt

[villager]

5. as should Obama...

n/t

[Cleita]

10. That's Obama's job.

If he looks to FDR and LBJ for precedents, all Obama really has to do is keep sending the bill back until it comes back with Medicare as a public option, which is the most cost effective way to go.

[dysfunctional press]

6. "contribute"...fat fucking chance.

if THESE democrats DON'T pass a public option(at least), i will NEVER contribute another penny, or a second of my time, or my vote to ANY politician, EVER again. i'm OUT.

[Cleita]

7. Dennis speaks the truth.

Four years also gives us an opportunity to dump all the Blue Dog Dems and the rest of the Republicans in the Senate.

[Common Sense Party]

63. How will we dump the Blue Dogs?

By running more progressive candidates against them?

That won't work.

The Blue Doggies win their districts because they're conservative.

[Cleita]

64. I've seen progressives win districts from conservatives by speaking

to the people in language that they understand. Loretta Sanchez in Orange County, California is one of them. The fact that they have to have a D after their name to win in their conservative districts says to me that there is common ground there that a smart progressive candidate can build from. Everyone has to roll up their sleeves and go to work.

[redqueen]

8. Whose opinion holds more weight?

Kucinich's, or Dean's?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6553386

[emulatorloo]

9. Senator Harkin has stated twice in the last few dayst the bill will pass with a strong public option

There were threads on his comments yesterday. I beleive him. There are several bills floating around in the Senate, not just the Baucus travesty.

EDIT TO ADD LINKS:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4057866


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/15/782194/-Dr.-Deanwe-have-51-votes-for-the-Public-Option-in-the-Senate

[Echo In Light]

11. Trying to hold out some hope for that, too...although I have my doubts

[Cleita]

12. And other Senators like Kent Conrad and Olympic Snowe are saying it isn't

going to have a public option.

[emulatorloo]

14. Snowe is irrelevant. Conrad may fall into this category:

Harkin: Public option won't be a deal breaker
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/58147-harkin-public-option-wont-be-a-deal-breaker

The new chairman of the Senate HELP Committee said a public option won't be deal breaker for moderate Democrats.

Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), who just replaced Ted Kennedy as head of the committee, said his centrist colleagues might accept a bill with a public option even if they aren't crazy about it.

"Some of my colleagues may not like a public option, but they like all the other things and I don't think they'll vote against the bill just because it has the public option in it," Harkin said on MSNBC.

[grantcart]

23. They also may not like it but I doubt that they will cross the line for a Republican

filibuster.

In fact Conrad has not said that he is against it - just that he doesn't think that it has the votes. As long as the caucus holds and lets it get an up or down vote I am sure that it will pass and that Conrad will be proved wrong - with or without his vote.

[mike_c]

57. it's the NATURE of public option that matters in the event one is included...

...in the final bill. A tiny safety net that only catches a few, or something grand that can truly compete with private for-profit wealth care for insurance companies? A weak PO is a poison pill designed to wreck reform.

[grantcart]

15. I found Harkin's timeline odd - I thought that the option for using reconciliation is up

next month and he is talking about the end of the year. Sounds like they are giving up on reconciliation.

[emulatorloo]

19. Personally I hate to think about the healthcare "DEBATE" dragging on that long

I've about had my fill of teabaggers and the Republicans who enable them.

[susanr516]

17. I have a lot of respect for Sen. Harkin

I don't think he would say that unless he was sure it was going to happen. I'm still worried, but a little more optimistic at this point.

[redqueen]

20. Another opinion to take into account...

Kucinich might want to start worrying about his credibility wearing thin on this one.

[grantcart]

13. "This just in from DK" what does that mean? Are you getting private messages

or is there a link.


So he is saying that the Progressive caucus is not serious when they are saying that they will not vote for a bill with a PO?

[grahamhgreen]

29. I'm on his email list. nt

[grantcart]

33. So he is saying that the Progressive Caucus in the end is going to fold?

[grahamhgreen]

40. I'm guessing he believes Big insurance will pay off enough Repubs to pass pay or punish crapsurance

[grantcart]

34. So he is saying that the Progressive Caucus in the end is going to fold?

[KoKo]

43. It's not that they want to...but it's that they "have to." To get along.

It's always the Senate that Rules. We who've been here for years have sadly watched how this all works. We used to watch these bills go through and have "running threads" with posters monitoring the final counts via C-Span. We have been disappointed for over Seven Years. House passes bill we Progressive Dems think we can trust..it goes to Senate. Senate sends back and them House & Senate go to "Conference Committee" and in the dead of night the bills change over reconciliation...and what comes out is Repug Shit Light.

Kucinich is correct. It's already being set up. We should keep phoning and faxing and the pressure on...but it appears it's going to go like the rest of what we've seen Obama had to compromise from the beginning. We don't know why ...but he had to. And, House & Senate just do what they've been doing whether there's a majority of Dems or not. It's never enough for Dems...yet Repugs always got what they wanted. It's just the way it works.

[ProSense]

62. Kucinich is doing more grandstanding. He will vote for health care reform in the end.

Or, risk being left out of history with the Republicans.

[ShortnFiery]

21. "If you are not broke, you will get a fine if you do not purchase insurance."

Keeping the poor working classes POOR.

I hope Kucinich is wrong about these predictions, but I fear, he will be proven correct. :(

[Old Hob]

25. decent health insurance obtained privately will easily cost a small family $1,500/month

or you can pay less for a bullshit catastrophic plan that has things like 15,000 deductibles which means that, for the average fairly healthy person i.e. young people who only needs coverage to cover a rare emergency room visit or an occasional checkup, you get nothing for your 200-500/month investment unless you happen to get cancer or some other similarly dire disease and then you still have to come up with 15 grand. This can be seen as basic "liability coverage". It doesn't pay for shit but you do.

[ShortnFiery]

26. Agreed. Mandates are not morally sound unless they are affordable to ALL. eom

[dhpgetsit]

22. We DO need to continue to push for Single-Payer

We don't know exactly what will be in the bill we see this year.

But I'm betting it will protect the profits of Big Insurance. If people can't afford insurance, they also won't be able to pay the fines for not having insurance. There will be controversy about the subsidies. Once again we will have to face the fact that Society ultimately funds health care and For-Profit Insurance Companies are a leach on Society.

[SidneyCarton]

27. Ahhh. thus saith the Prophet Dennis.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Call me back when the prophecy of doom is fulfilled.

[grahamhgreen]

31. Well, Iraqistan IS a quagmire...

[SidneyCarton]

36. Yeah, long-term occupations tend to go that way.

Particularly when they were botched from day one.

Acting like this is somehow precient, when an elementary understanding about the way things work in Congress could tell us precisely this, is hardly impressive. Has Congressman Kucinich done anything other than grouse about this?

[grahamhgreen]

37. Yes - he supports HR676 - link

http://hr676.org

http://pnhp.org

Hopefully, this is the bill that will be picked up if HR3200 crashes and burns....

That, or Kennedy's Medicare for All bill

[SidneyCarton]

38. So let me get this straight, you're in favor of dropping HR3200...

Because you think if it fails, HR676 can get passed?

Man, can I interest you in some oceanfront property in Arizona? Guaranteed to go up ridiculously in value once that pesky State of California falls into the ocean.

[grahamhgreen]

39. Yes. Look at the polls - The people know HR3200 is crap, and WANT medicare for all.

They are smarter than Washington thinks.

They got us out of Vietnam.

They will get us out of Iraqistan.

They will - I mean WE the people will force our representatives to REPRESENT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE FOR A CHANGE, IMHO.

No crapsurance.

Don't forget - a black man can never be elected president, either.

[SidneyCarton]

48. The people are smart?

Man I come from California, land of the "Citizen Legislature" believe me, just because the people want it doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. If the people had their way, we'd have a cradle to grave health care system, sure, but they wouldn't want to pay any taxes to fund it either, and we'd see how long that would last.

[grahamhgreen]

52. It doesn't matter - if you don't pay for health care, you die. The way we save costs is by eliminat

eliminating the leeches on the system - Big insurance.

why should anyone be allowed to make money off of what is going to be necessary expenditures by all of us?

The reason we have an insurance pool is because we are willing to help someone else out if we never get sick in exchange for them helping us out if we do get sick.

Yes the people are smarter than the power brokers - and more honest too!

That is the essence of the US constitution - WE THE PEOPLE - as a whole, are smarter than easily corrupted individuals. Look where this philosophy took us - from a monarchy to the highest standard of living in the world, at one point.

[Mnemosyne]

41. Are you always this much of a

prick or do you just play one on DU?

Seriously, insulting people will never sway them. Present your arguments to discuss.

Thank you!

[SidneyCarton]

49. Takes one to know one buddy.

(So much for presenting argument without insult, "prick" indeed)

I don't see much of an argument from the other party in this discussion (of which you weren't originally a part if you hadn't noticed) apparently, if he doesn't get what he wants, he's taking his ball and going home, not much room for discussion there if I do say so myself.

(But surely, you have other anatomical deficiencies of mine to point out in response, so I won't keep you any longer.)

[Individualist]

32. K&R

[KoKo]

42. Kucinich knows what he's talking about. We Long Time DU'ers have watched bill after bill

get championed in the house by Pelosi/Hoyer and we think things are going well...then the Senate comes back and bites the House in the Ass...and Pelosi/Hoyer say they "tried" and it was just that "Bad Ole Senate" that put the knife in the back of THEIR Wonderful Legislation...For the PEOPLE!

Dennis is correct...I'm signing the petition. I know peititions don't seem to work these days...but maybe ONE DAY...ONE PETITION..will Work!

[omega minimo]

44. Kill The Poor

Kill The Poor
Dead Kennedys

Efficiency and progress is ours once more
Now that we have the neutron bomb
Its nice and quick and clean and gets things done
Away with excess enemy
But no less value to property
No sense in war but perfect sense at home

The sun beams down on a brand new day
No more welfare tax to pay
Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
Jobless millions whisked away
At last we have more room to play
All systems go to kill the poor tonight

Gonna
Kill kill kill kill kill the poortonight

Behold the sparkle of champagne
The crime rates gone
Feel free again
O lifes a dream with you, miss lily white
Jane fonda on the screen today
Convinced the liberals its okay
So lets get dressed and dance away the night

While they
Kill kill kill kill kill the poortonight

[unkachuck]

45. sounds about right....n/t

[inna]

46. KR+23, and i highly recommend reading this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/admit-it--a-robust-public_b_287702.html

[Joe the Liberal]

47. Well that's one possibility......

I hope it doesn't come to that but I wouldn't be surprised if it did, we'll see.

[20score]

50. Signed.

[hughee99]

51. This sounds like what we have in MA. n/t

[chill_wind]

53. Which is where I feared

this would end up all along. :-(

[mike_c]

54. Kucinich gets it right time after time after time....

When will the nation start listening?

[Vidar]

56. Sounds about right.

[jeremyfive]

58. And Kucinich did not vote to censure Joe Wilson. Why?

And Kucinich did not vote to censure Joe Wilson. Why?

Seems like a no-brainer.

[Echo In Light]

60. He perceived the wrist-slap action to be insufficient n/t

[glinda]

59. And during that time many will die, loose their homes, see rates rise and less coverage.

I am sick of this crap. They are unaware of the people's problems.

[trayfoot]

61. Done!

[bvar22]

66. Done.

Kucinich is one of the very few reasons I'm still a Democrat.


”I am not funded by those corporate interests.
I owe them no loyalty, and they have no influence over me or my policies.” ---Dennis Kucinich