Abstinence only education does not work

[mudesi]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070413/abstinence-study

WASHINGTON — Students who took part in sexual abstinence programs were just as likely to have sex as those who did not, according to a study ordered by Congress.

Also, those who attended one of the four abstinence classes that were reviewed reported having similar numbers of sexual partners as those who did not attend the classes. And they first had sex at about the same age as other students _ 14.9 years, according to Mathematica Policy Research Inc.

When will Americans grow up and recognize that people will have sex when they reach their teen years? It has always been that way and it always will be that way. It was no different in the 1950's and it was no different in thy 1850's, and it will not be any different in 2050.

Abstinence only "education" is a form of sexual repression that leads to grave consequences. Making one feel guilty for having sexual feelings, or having sexual relations, does enormous damage to one's mental well being. Sexually repressed people are at an increased risk of becoming sexual predators, and once the sexual predator acts out his (her) psychologically twisted fantasy, it's too late.

This study reveals that teaching kids that sex is "bad" will not stop them from having it. But I can guarantee you that it will make them feel guilty for having had it, regardless of the fact that their parents hypocritically did the same when they were teenagers, that it's a part of growing up, and that it's a normal biological function.

Does this mean sex does not have consequences? Of course not. But how in the world are teens supposed to care about these consequences when all they are told is to fear them? Part of being a teenager is rebelling in order to form an identity. Of course they'll do the opposite of what they're told because they are in a stage of their lives when it's time to discover on their own what it means to have a sexual relationship.

They need to be educated about the medical facts regarding pregnancy and STDs, and that if they engage in sexual acts, to protect themselves, and that these protections are not 100% effective. Given the proper information, they can then come to an informed choice, and determine whether or not they are emotionally ready for a sexual relationship. Telling them "NO" will not work.

Wake up, America.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. A bumper sticker I saw. "Chastity is it's own punishment"

[ThomCat]

2. The people who push this shit don't care.

They believe in doing irrational things simply based on faith.

They will choose to have faith in these classes because they match their dogmatic beliefs. Therefore, no argument against these classes will succeed. They have faith.
x(

[Warpy]

7. "If I can keep ONE CHILD from ___________"

Just fill in the blank: drugs, sex, drinking, driving fast, blah blah blah.

They'll continue to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into this shit just like they have into the failed drug war because all those parents out there hope their own child will be that ONE CHILD saved from __________.

That's what we're fighting. None of this stuff works worth a damn and it's all popular with churchgoing suburban parents.

[Tom Joad]

3. On the bright side for the Bushies...

It was reported that during class time very few students engaged in sexual activities.
Though they learned not to turn out the lights for the audio-visual presentations.

[Bucky]

6. !

I taught a sex ed class at my church three years ago. I musta sucked at it cause two of those kids have since told me they're still virgins. Not that I wanted them to share that info with me, but sometimes you create bonds with kids and they need to talk to an adult who isn't a parent.

The succesful part of the class I'm certain is that we didn't teach it abstinance only. We taught responsibility and consequences and how to understand when it's "right". And we made totally inappropriate jokes about the "Got Milk?" ads that I refuse to repeat in this forum.

[Clark2008]

11. LOL! You'll say the jokes at church, but not here?

The irony in that makes me giggle. :rofl:

[Vexatious Ape]

4. Their ability to look at the facts and apply reason

has been compromised or corrupted by religious faith. Facts mean nothing to these people.

[HockeyMom]

5. Abstinence until MARRIAGE?

Ok, put aside teenagers for a minute. Think about what they are really saying. What is the average age of marriage now? It certainly isn't 18 years old upon graduation from HS. It is definitely well into the 20s and even early 30s now. They are telling ADULTS they must be abstinent?

As I heard one very mature teenager say, "Abstinence until you are physically, mentally, and emotionally an ADULT. Until MARRIAGE is never going to work."

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. That always gets me too

How can people not see the OBVIOUS imposition of religious views here? I have no problem with young people being advised to wait until they are mature enough, physically and emotionally, to engage in sex. But what the hell, I'm 38 and I've never married. Am I supposed to be a virgin? Not that there's anything wrong with being one....;)

[Daedelus76]

18. on the flip side...

... there is alot of pressure in our culture to have sex. Even though most people don't realize how hard it is to get legally, at least for some people. And there's a big stigma attached to not having sex, for some reason.

Me, I'm not too ashamed to admit, I'm a 31 year old virgin. On the negative side, if you call it a negative... I haven't had sex. On the positive side, I don't have to play mind games with women and try and figure out what they want, or try and figure out ways to hide/overcome my various shortcommings- minor physical handicaps, social ackwardness, etc. Then you have to take the women on dates, ad nauseam. It's a big game. I can spend the money on myself, and pursue passions that maybe a nagging woman wouldn't approve of (like motorcycling, or computers... chicks dig guys on motorcycles, until they go steady and depend on their incomes and emotional attachment, then they tell them to dump the bike- unless they ride themselves... and women don't like nerds period... unless their computer is broken, and suddenly you are cool). Is it an incomplete life? Maybe. I don't look forward to the thought of dying a virgin. But who looks forward to the thought of dying, period? Virginity is overrated- it's not some magic halo hanging around your head, that's for sure. But I've got a feeling, so is sex, especially the debts/liabilities that come with it.

It would be nice if our culture took a balanced view towards sex. There are so many different social groups with different opinions on the subject- on the one hand you have the libertines who think it's OK for teens to have sex (as well as drink or smoke pot- I've seen plenty of this on DU), on the other hand you have the really religious types who say abstinence only. So that's why you have the culture wars about sex ed. No consensus.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. Hey thanks for sharing that

I think you're right about there being a flip side. We get bombarded by messages that "everyone" is having mind-blowing sex all the time and there must be something wrong with you if you're not. Nothing could be further from the truth. I definitely think that's an especially bad message to send to kids who are struggling with their feelings and peer pressure. That's why I'm totally okay with teaching kids that they should wait until they are ready. And that time may come when they are 18 or 25 or 38. What I can't support is misinforming kids the way the abstinence only people do, or attaching it to a heteronormative religious institution. What about gay kids? If you say no sex until marriage you're telling anyone who isn't straight and planning to marry that they never get to have sex.

[Daedelus76]

20. that's just my impressions

The world is a big place there are lots of different people. Just because 80 percent of everybody is doing it, doesn't mean we all are.
In our culture there are still huge taboos about sex. Like sex with people with disabilities. Most "ordinary" people don't seek out people with disabilities of any sort, including things as minor as crossed eyes, cleft lips, a limp, or what have you (in my case, I have intermittent crossed eyes- esotropia, mild nystagmus, and melanocytosis). Only House/Hugh Laurie can make a cane and a limp look cool and sexy, it would seem (that and being a poster child for productive drug addicts?). We are still very much creatures of our DNA, and very few women or men fall for people that are "different", at least at first glance. It takes alot more intimacy for people to overcome first impressions. So it sort of takes one night stands out of the equation.

And if you are the least bit socially ackward, where do you start? Plenty of people grew up in religious homes where dating was guarded and going steady wasn't cool- and sex would probably get you in big, big trouble, and your parents would find out somehow, and offending them actually mattered to you because you were close to them. Or maybe they moved around constantly, diplomats kid, military brat. Those sorts of people rarely form deep attachments to anybody in their teenage years. They learn to be self-reliant. There are dozens of reasons for this sort of thing. It fits me. In my case, my dad was in the military. We were nomilally religious, went to church every sunday (Methodist or non-denominational- whatever was near or on the base), but as a teenager I was very religious, a fundamentalist in fact. I taught myself Greek, read the original New Testament in that language, studied a little Hebrew, and I wanted to become a minister in the Church. Being sinful was not an option. (BTW, I have since become mostly irrelegious, starting in my early 20's- a religious seeker, I don't define myself as an atheist or agnostic. I am mostly attracted to Buddhism and Hinduism. But I still feel my Christian roots alot- I'm not anti-Christian. And from time to time I still think about going back to a church. Just not sure which one I'd go to, or even if I'd feel welcome).

And it doesn't help my brother finally got a girlfriend. And then she dumped him after literally using him for months. All she wanted was his money in exchange for sex, I guess, and when he wouldn't "grow up", she dumped him after failing to try and change him into something she wanted. Sort of burned me on the whole dating thing, of even trying. For some reason alot of those types my brother hangs out with, are only interested in guys that are "grownups"- ie, making, what they think of, as "good" money and have a "respectable" job.

But anybody goes through this sort of stuff some time in their life, not just folks like me. Most of us, contrary to the media image, aren't constantly having sex, for one reason or another. Nor is it really the most important thing in our lives. It feeds our lower brain- the reptile bits, but if it defines us, well, we are still just animals then, not the rationale creatures our deepest beliefs inspire us to be.

On a side note, years ago they did studies in third world countries. After people got TV sets, the birth rate declined slightly. Researchers attributed it to finding different "entertainment". For some people maybe sex is the only thrill in their lives? Just my theory.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. If I could offer you a couple bits of totally unasked for advice-

first off, hey, man- as you yourself say, it's a VERY big world out there. To borrow a phrase, there are lots of fish in the sea, and if you're not meeting individuals of the gender you might presumably be interested in, or who might be interested in you, perhaps you're looking -or not looking- in the wrong place. And In my humble opinion, the fact that your brother got burned in a relationship with one woman... that's hardly any reason for you to write off all women, or write off dating- if anything, it might be an excuse for your brother, albeit kind of a lame one- but not for you. I think just about everyone who doesn't marry the first person they have sex with- like they tell you to do in abstinence only classes- has had at least one bad relationship from which they moved on. It's something most people have to deal with at some point in their lives.

And the relationships of the kids who listen to the abstinence only crowd, and DO marry the first person they screw? Statistically, I think those relationships tend to be even worse.

But hey- you may genuinely want to be alone; many people do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that- but if you're keeping yourself limited from the world because of your brother's experience, or because of assumptions you've made about who is out there or what they would or wouldn't ever be interested in.. maybe by only seeing things through the circles your brother runs in, you're selling the whole experience a little short. Peace.

[Daedelus76]

25. advice taken

I never said there's no "Ms. Right" out there (or even miss "Good Enough"). But finding her is hard, the signal to noise ratio seems rather bad. And how do you approach her? I've got no skills at that. Maybe a lack of confidence. Heck, I have a hard time just making friends. It can be tough being a military brat, you learn to be a hermit if you have to.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. I think it's okay for people to make their own decisions about their own bodies and lives.

Do I think it's "okay" for teens to have sex? I'm a realist, in that I don't think most teens wait until they're over 18. I was 16 when I lost my virginity, and I don't regret it, or think it was the "wrong" thing to do. I also drank and smoked pot as a teen, and while I don't think alcohol or pot should be legal for the under 21 set like I certainly think they should be legal for consenting adults, I do think that a little realism -as opposed to black and white "just say no" puritanism- is in order when dealing with underage use of those substances.

I wouldn't judge you for your virginity, or, in fact, any lifestyle choice you might make, insofar as everyone's a consenting adult and you're not hurting anyone else. I think that is the "libertine" mindset which you delineate as one extreme pole in the culture wars, but it centers around a proposition that I don't think is extreme in the least- namely, that people should be able to make up their own minds and run their own lives. To say that it's "okay" for teens to have sex, or even to acknowledge the reality that most of them do, is not the same as saying everyone MUST have sex. But, frankly, if the "religious types" want to teach kids that they MUST remain abstinent until marriage, let them teach that to their OWN kids, and for fuck's sake, let them do it on their OWN dime!

One question, though- according to your profile, you've been here for what, 5 days? So how is it you've seen "plenty of" anything? By the way, Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Daedelus76]

27. I've lurked for a long, long time

Several years.

You are exactly what I'm talking about as being a "libertine". I'm not saying you don't have a right to believe what you do, but there are plenty of other people who are the exact opposite, and alot of people who are in the middle.

I don't think teenagers should be having sex if their parents are not OK with it. They are still legally children, after all, and don't have the rights of an adult and their parents make major choices for them. Having sex is a major choice with serious consequences. I do think they should be taught about human physiology, STD's and AIDS, and reproduction, have legal access to contraception and birth control, but not necesasrily provided by a school. I think it's sort of a "harm reduction" strategy. You don't necessarily have to condone the behavior, but you do have to deal with the consequences.

[Clark2008]

12. Good point.

I'm going to stress to my own kids that they at least attempt to be in a committed relationship where they can talk about disease, birth control, emotional attachment and consequences with their intended partner without fear of embarrassment, malice or derision.

Expecting them to wait until they're married is a fool's mission. And, personally, I would hope neither of my children marries before they are over 25. Anything else is far, far, far too young.

[MountainLaurel]

14. No, they're telling kids they need to get married at 18

And start cranking out good Christian babies ASAP if they wanted to be right in the eyes of God. Or at least that's the message hidden underneath. And of course, the whole process ignores the needs of gays, which is a whole 'nuther matter of religious-fueled hatred.

[frogbison]

9. Ohio's Govermor Strickland "gets it"

Abstinence programs face cuts
Friday, March 23, 2007 3:38 AM
By Mark Niquette
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

The debate over abstinence-only education in Ohio is heating up after Gov. Ted Strickland proposed eliminating spending for it in his budget, saying that the money can be used in better ways.

Strickland wants to cut $500,000 a year used to administer the program from the two-year state budget, money that also secures $1.6 million a year in federal funds for abstinence-only teaching and materials.

Strickland isn't opposed to teaching abstinence and might have left money for it in place had the budget not been so tight, spokesman Keith Dailey said.

But the approach is unproven, and the governor doesn't think tax dollars should be spent on it, Dailey said. At the same time, Strickland wants to increase funding for early child care and education that research shows reduces teen pregnancy, crime and other problems, he said.

[Clark2008]

10. Of course not. Only ignorant wingers believe that it does.

The best tactic to take is to encourage it, but also provide all the proper education necessary to the child/teen so he/she can avoid pregnancy, disease and death.

And, one can encourage abstinence forcefully without sticking one's head in the sand and pretending their precious Johnny or Janie will never want to have sex outside of marriage.

Take me, for example, I'm a newly-wed (in January, it was a year). I went to the doctor to get birth control around the time we married because I didn't want a baby so soon. But, as it happens, the BC didn't work. I'm now expecting, in about six to eight weeks, a beautiful little girl - and I will be sharing this story with my daughter: how only abstinence is fool-proof and just because she uses BC doesn't mean it will be effective (yes, I was using it correctly - birth control just isn't effective on me for some reason. It happens). That doesn't mean that she shouldn't USE it if she wants to try sex, but she should be aware of all sides of the story.

:)

[HockeyMom]

13. If you have used the Pill and had problems,

sit down and talk with your daughter about it. After all, you have the same genetic makeup and it will definitely help her, and her doctor, to know the family history. I, myself, had many problems. I could not take estrogen. I had an ectopic pg on the progestin only mini pill. Before my daughter decided to take the Pill, she talked with me about the problems I had and when she went to her doctor she told her about her family history.

No one method is best for everyone. Besides, you can always use more than one method of bc at one time if you really, really don't want to conceive. Yes, it requires a lot of research and perseverance, but an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy is NOT a foregone conclusion.

[question everything]

15. But, hey, we are spending $170 mil a year on this program

and after the $70 mil to find out that Bill Clinton cheated on his wife..

Sometimes I wish that bureaucrats who are so easy with tax money would be held financially responsible for some of their actions.

[Bozita]

24. That's well-spent money ... if you're on the contractor end.

Is there a correlation between the donors to the GOP and the companies running this hoax?

This stuff just staggers me.

Help me out here, please.

The GOP is for smaller government. Freedom (protested at a Bush event ... ever?). Free wars (our grandkids will pay for this one). Free trade (remember that "giant sucking sound"?).

Hey, Congress! I heard there's a new sheriff in town.

[TahitiNut]

16. When it comes to sex, teen-agers have an abundance of willpower.

It's far greater than their won't-power. :evilgrin:

[Daedelus76]

17. I don't have so much against abstinence-only education

While I think abstinence-only education is not very wise, there is nothing wrong with sex-ed classes that respect the sensibilities and values of the wider community.

And no, not everybody has sex in their teen years. Among the deeply religious, it's lower. If you have the typical overworked, unconcerned American parents, maybe getting knocked up at age 14 is no big deal. But there's lots of other families where it is otherwise.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. If the "wider community" wants to spend $1.1 BILLION dollars on their "sensibilities and values"

when these programs are proven not to work, then they can do it with their own dime.

And as long as the programs are clearly religious in nature, they can do 'em in church, and not public schools.

http://www.nonewmoney.org/history.html




...and what about the "sensibilities and values" of those of us who think it's absurd to lay on a kid in public school a pseudo-religious head trip about how if he or she isn't going to get married until his or her late 20s or early 30s, the "right" thing to do is to stay a virgin until then? I'm not saying it's BAD for someone to stay a virgin if that's what they want, but... come on!

[Blashyrkh]

26. The reasons you outlined are the very reasons they promote it.

They want a generation of messed-up non-thinkers.

[Daedelus76]

28. my 2 cents

Abstinece education is a waste of money in the face of a broader culture that sends a deluge of messages promoting sex as hyper-normative behavior, and that actively seeks to sexualize adolescents. If these people wanted to really attack what they see as the problem, their energy would be better spent on taking on the media such as film, TV, games, and other media. When even prime-time sitcoms are making puerile jokes about sex, how can these people seriously think a billion dollars equalling maybe an hour talking about how Jesus wants them to stop touching themselves and groping their girlfriend, is going to undo all the other media messages out there? It is indeed money not well spent. Spend it on commercials for V-chips, or something like that- I'm sure that could be done at a fraction of the cost.