Most illegals DO contribute to our economy

[Quixote1818]

All this uproar about illegals and fear of them getting free HC slices more than one way. I work for a guy who has several businesses and one is his Peach orchard. He has a friend who he calls who manages all the illegals in the area and will get him the number of illegals he needs for the day if fruit needs to be picked or if something needs to be sprayed or if they need to thin the peaches. What cracks me up is that he is the first person to make cracks about illegals needing to stay in Mexico and not wanting them to get health care yet he illegally uses them all the time. Paying someone under the table instead of legally hiring someone is un-American because these people are paid slave wages, don't get health care and because the government doesn't know about them because the employer keeps everything hush, hush, then no income taxes are collected. Not that they make enough to pay income taxes anyway even if they were legal. Still they are needed here and used an abused by their employers and they help keep the cost of fruit and vegetables down because employers are paying them poorly and not providing them with HC and all the other things employers should be providing them with.

Nothing ever gets done about illegals because the fact is they are here because their is a demand for them and law makers will always look the other way. If there was no demand then they wouldn't be here. They may not pay taxes but their employers probably pay extra taxes because they will have higher profits due to paying low wages and not covering social security, medicare, income taxes etc. etc. If not then the employers are just cheating the government a second time. Why are illegals always branded as the bad guys when it's those who hire them that are creating the demand for them to come here?

The 12 million people that are undocumented are also big consumers. If you want an example just turn your TV or radio. You will see many TV channels in Spanish. These channels are able to operate because they have many companies that advertise in these channels. You will see commercials like Banks, Mc Donal's, Jc penny, sears, Disneyland and Universal studios (just to name a few) if the immigrants would not spend nobody would advertise in these channels so if you would get all those 12 million of immigrants deported those companies would lose many of their costumers and that will impact these companies negatively.

Personally I think they should get HC because they are slaves to crooks who don't want to pay them legally in a way that taxes could be raised and they could get HC and retirement from their employers. The employers are ripping off the country just as much ore more than the illegals yet everyone blames the illegials because they are brown and don't speak english.

[NMDemDist2]

1. and I know many illegals working under the same social sec. #

they pay in the taxes as withholdings but never file for refunds or services

[w4rma]

27. And they help employers by not speaking out against safety problems and low wages! (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I've said it for years, if we want to truly solve the "problem"

it is easy... enforce immigration laws, no, not at the border, at the employer site, by FINING the employers.

That would do it, but we cannot do that... because it would drive costs up, and these illegals are a new form of slavery.

Yes, it is that simple.

[zbdent]

11. simple plan, ironically suggested by I believe Rush Limbaugh ...

his suggestion was about "freedom of speech" and the porn industry ...

if it is about "freedom of speech", then the rental places can rent porno titles ... but they have to have a license ... which would cost $1000 per copy of each title ...

So, every employer who wishes to use undocumented (illegal) alien workers ... they are allowed to do so, if they pay for a license to use them ... $1000 per illegal worker ... per day ...

[blue sky at night]

3. let me tell ya.......

I have worked in Mexico four times in the last four years.....I will take the Mexicans over these assholes that whine about "illegals" any day of the week. They are good people, I am having problems believing the pukes are even people.

[LooseWilly]

4. And how...

[bliss_eternal]

5. i detest that term...

"illegals."

:puke:

yet another way to dehumanize an entire group of people.

[anigbrowl]

7. It's never bothered me. 'alien', on the other hand, is quite annoying.

[meow2u3]

14. meow2u3 to cons: aliens come from another PLANET

Immigrants come from other countries! Anti-immigration whackos sound as if undocumented persons come from Mars, not Mexico!

You might as well hate Marvin the Martian--he was the one who wanted to blow up the earth :silly:

[Lance_Boyle]

15. Ugh - apparently it's not just the illegal aliens who need to learn English.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alien

:eyes:

[anigbrowl]

16. 'alien' is the term used for foreigners in US law, whether I like it or not.

[Chef Eric]

26. I detest the term too, as does Dennis Kucinich.

<http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Yeah%2C+they're+illegals%3A+Mislabeling+law+breakers&articleId=48201513-27f6-453c-bb67-01f5a7db4938>

[Hello_Kitty]

8. Ethnic stereotypes are always demeaning, even when they are "positive".

It's a form of condescension. There are "good people" and lazy whiny assholes in every country.

[anigbrowl]

19. It's not really an ethnic group, though a majority do come from Latin America

'Illegal alien' is an administrative classification. On the other hand, the common misconception that illegal alien = criminal is mistaken, since entry into or residence of the US without authorization is a violation of the civil rather than criminal code. Although it has become shorthand for people from Mexico and neighboring countries without papers, there's also a good number of illegal aliens from Europe and Asia. I think there are about 50,000 people from Ireland, for example - I don't keep up with #s from other individual countries.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. I understand that but I'm talking about the characterization of poor immigrants from Latin America

While the nativists demonize them many on the progressive side will wax about their superior work ethic and romanticize the poverty and desperation that brings them here. Gotta tell yourself the people toiling 12 hours a day for a pittance picking your cheap lettuce really loooooooove the work.

[anigbrowl]

6. Indeed so. Excellent post.

[anonymous171]

9. Illegal immigrants are bad for wages and unions.

That being said, I don't think that excluding them from HC coverage is going to make much of a difference.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Cheap labor and suppressed wages doesn't contribute to "our" economy.

It contributes to the economy of the plutocrats.

[reflection]

13. Great point, HK.

This is often overlooked in the discussion. Needs to be pointed out every so often.

[Gold Metal Flake]

17. Yes, which is why they are brought here.

If the undocumented workforce were a drain on corporate profits, the immigration laws that are in place now would be enforced all across the country.

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Oh yeah. We'd see that wall built for sure.

Only it would be to keep the starving desperate Americans in, not to keep anyone out.

[anigbrowl]

20. All the more reason to legalize.

The point of the OP is that the immigrants themselves do contribute significantly to the common good, not least because a good number of them actually pay taxes; it is not an argument in favor of low wages or poor working conditions. Actually, if there were an amnesty tomorrow I think it would push GDP up by >1%.

[anonymous171]

23. They don't contribute to the common good though. They only contribute to their manager's profits

That's about it.

[anigbrowl]

28. Absolutely not true.

Many illegal immigrants pay taxes, which go to the SSA and/or IRS. There are two ways to do this - using a fake SSN is illegal, but the IRS gives out a different kind of tax ID which is. This is basically paying without any right to getting anything back (eg at retirement). There are other economic factors which arguably lead to a benefit to the common good, but I'm too lazy to go explaining them since most people seem to prefer the easy choice of stereotyping than discussing the complexities.

[Hello_Kitty]

24. It definitely would

But amnesty needs to be accompanied by strong restrictions on future illegal immigration. It's not going to help if we legalize 12 million undocumented immigrants only to have at least 12 million more undocumented immigrants come across the border to replace them. The enforcement needs to be on the employers. If we pass amnesty there need to be SERIOUS fines on employers who get caught.

[Greyhound]

25. Nailed it. This is what so many miss, it is not "our" economy there are several

American economies and illegal workers as well as H-1(b), L-1, etc. overwhelmingly contributes to the corporate/parasitic economy and is a drain on the "Main Street" economy.
:kick:

[rbixby]

12. My take is that

These folks broke the law when they came to this country, so yes, their staying here is illegal. The thing that really makes me sad is when families are broken up because they've come to the states, had children, and then end up being deported because of their status. I agree that the real root of the problem is not the undocumented foreigners here, the problem is employer's willingness to hire them. Around here, there is a large poultry company that employs dozens, if not hundreds of undocumented workers. Their idea is that its easier to simply pay the fines and continue doing business the same way. After the INS rounds up all of the illegals and ships them back from whence they came, the company sends buses down to border towns to pick up more. Its simply the cost of doing business, and a way to 'keep costs down'.
I think that if we take the incentive away from employers to hire illegals, perhaps by increasing the fine for it to something ridiculous like $200k per undocumented employee, we could end this problem.


I have a limited amount of sympathy for the undocumented workers here, they knew they were coming to this country illegally, and I think that if you want to come here from another country, you should do it the right way, be documented, and abide by the law. Our immigration laws need to be reformed, and the system needs a complete overhaul, but that doesn't justify people illegally coming to our country.

[Romulox]

18. "Contribute to *our* economy"? Those that profit and those that pay are two different groups.

It's not "our" economy when the profits are shared; it's only "our" economy when the bill comes due.