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We took every trace of abortion out of health care reform...now they are going after birth control.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:28 PM
Original message
We took every trace of abortion out of health care reform...now they are going after birth control.
Our party has made it clear to the religious right that there will be NO payments for abortion in ANY plan for health care reform. Gee, you would think that would satisfy them.

No, it doesn't. The more we give in on any issue, the more they demand on other issues.
Groups are pushing hard in at least 24 states to make sure that insurance does not cover birth control prescriptions.

They continue to push for laws that will restrict rights of women based on their religious views, they continue to scream that we must not cave on DOMA and DADT which seriously harm the rights of gays.

And we let them do it. Our party has often adopted the rhetoric of the religious right, making it sound like the only good American is a Christian American. It angers me, though I was raised Southern Baptist. Hubby and I are proud recovering Southern Baptists....we learned the hard way that these groups will impose every belief of theirs on our nation. And when we cave, they go the next step.

The 'egg-as-person' crusade is driving big money to anti-choice groups.

In just five short years, the primary movers and shakers in the absolutist anti-abortion/anti-choice movement seeking to promote the “personhood” of zygotes (the single cell that forms after a sperm fertilizes an egg) have amassed nearly $58 million in tax-deductible contributions for their cause.

Even the lead up to one of the worst economic periods in U.S. history has barely registered a blip in the group's collective money-drawing power according to an examination of IRS and state campaign finance records conducted for RH Reality Check. Four out of the five groups are raising more cash than ever with sophisticated fundraising operations, flush investment portfolios, and robust revenue-generating activities.

This isn't your grandma’s church bake sale by any stretch of the imagination.

American Life League

The fundraising champ among the five organizations profiled for this article is the American Life League (ALL), an ultra-conservative Catholic tax-exempt charity that describes itself as "supporting the social welfare of persons born and unborn." Its founder Judie Brown is better known as the "grandmother of the modern anti-choice movement" who popularized aggressive clinic blockades and sidewalk "counseling" tactics to harass health care providers and clinic patients beginning in the 1980s."


Evangelical and fundamentalist groups are also pushing their anti-choice, anti-gay agenda.

Colorado is just one of the many states feeling their push. Florida is also on the agenda this year. They don't just want to make sure that insurance does not cover birth control....they want to ban it entirely if they can.

From the Rocky Mountain Independent:

Personhood amendment readies for Round 2

If at first you don’t succeed — even by a 3-1 margin — try, try again. That is the sentiment from the folks who tried last fall to get Colorado voters to declare that life begins at conception.

Now the group is back, or at least trying to come back. This month, the Colorado Secretary of State’s title board approved wording for a new question for the 2010 ballot. The proposed measure, assuming it gets the necessary petitions to put it on the ballot, is virtually identical to Amendment 48, which 73 percent of Colorado voters defeated last fall.

That trouncing isn’t putting a damper on the folks at Personhood Colorado or its new national group, Personhood USA, which is pushing similar measures in 29 other states, said Keith Mason, who’s heading the effort in Colorado and nationwide.

“The difference in the strategy of the campaign will be to be a bit more upfront with what we expect the language will do and what this campaign’s all about, which is protecting human life,” Mason said. “Last time, some of the issues were skirted a bit, but we plan not to do that again.”


They don't care if they fail, they will just be back next year. When they get through making sure insurance doesn't pay for birth control, no telling what is next.

And the battle is starting in Florida as well. Looks like this amendment would ban contraception altogether.

Would proposed amendment make birth control illegal in Florida?


The "Personhood Amendment" that conservative activists are filing today in Tallahassee would add language to the state constitution that defines someone as a "person," regardless of age or health status, "from the beginning of the biological development of that human being."

Pat McEwen of Palm Bay is one of two leaders of the loose collection of activists, collectively known as Personhood Florida.

"In the original Florida Constitution in 1885, they gave Floridians the right to enjoy and defend life," she said. "This amendment defends the unborn, and it also gives older people like me – a retired college professor – the right to make my own decisions and not have someone override it."


And guess what. Through the years their battle against abortion has succeeded...they just never gave up. Now they are after contraception. Not just through the insurance path, but through training and putting in place pharmacists who will not fill prescriptions for it.

Now our Democrats have made clear there WILL be a conscience clause in the health care reform bill. The only reason for a conscience clause is to soothe the ruffled feathers of the religious right.

Conscience clauses may go much further than reproductive services.

The more sinister potential of the original bill could have expanded far beyond reproductive services, Esman said. “If you were anti-gay, you didn’t have to treat gay people. If you were a white supremacist and worked at a doctor’s office you could refuse to make appointments for people who are non-white.” It was by raising concerns of broader threats of the legislation that the ACLU was able to build a diverse coalition to work on the bill.

.....Still, conscience clauses are becoming an increasingly popular mode of anti-choice legislation, and not all states will result in the kind of compromise reached in Louisiana. Arizona’s bill combines a conscience clause, allowing pharmacists to refuse to dispense emergency contraception, with a 24-hour waiting period for abortions. The bill also increases penalties (from one year of prison to two years) for physicians that perform the already-illegal late abortion procedures erroneously and misleadingly termed "partial-birth abortions."


They have won every battle in the field of choice. We need to fight harder against this minority that wants religion to control our government and our consciences and choices.




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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. We Must Push Back NOW.
These self-righteous windbags need to be stopped. They have crossed a line that should never have been crossed.

I do not want to wake up in a country that I no longer recognize.

K&R

Most excellent rant!

:grr:
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. If they remove birth control,
the female members of Congress (on our side) need to push for no viagra coverage. That should get their attention.



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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Of course, that will get their attention...
But it won't help in the long run.

:shrug:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. If they remove birth control, no female member should vote for the bill. nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. No Viagra coverage, no treatment for impotence, and no fertility treatments
They want to turn all young women into brood mares and nothing more. They want women with dangerous pregnancies to DIE for being "imperfect" breeders. We have to push back against these sexist authoritarians!
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here is how it works: they push and the Dems move more towards the center
each time until they are on the Right. Get it? This is what is f****g up our Party and Country. Has anyone arrested Rove yet?
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. The R's don't marginalize their lunatic fringe, they nominate them.
The Dems marginalize Progressives and Progressives even allow it to happen by not standing firm against this treatment. The White House has zero respect for Progressives because we told them no matter what we will support them.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
79. Very true. nt
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
49. Arrest rove?
I expect a rose garden beer party.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
78. The vast majority of Dems are already Right of center
just visit the Political Compass site and it becomes clear enough. We have an overwhelming majority, so why aren't we using it for basic human rights for women?
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Is the religious right controlling this country?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Seems that way.
:shrug:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. Not the Religous Right.
Big Money is running this country.
The RR is just a sub component.

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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
86. The "Religious Right" are the "willing fools" employed by the rich to retain power. (NT)
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is insane. BC isn't only used for that purpose! Some women have to take it for...
various conditions, Menorrhagia, Metrorrhagia, Menometrorrhagia for example. Some women need birth control pills to regulate their wildly out of whack menstrual cycles, which can cause terrible anemia and other problems of course when there's excessive and prolonged menstrual bleeding. These people are completely out of line messing with birth control pills when they seemingly have no clue about their other uses. I guess these are probably the same people who think you can just pray the bleeding away though. Assholes.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. A bush apointee to FDA wrote books advising prayer for cramps to cancer
http://www.au.org/media/church-and-state/archives/2006/01/with-god-on-thei.html

Maybe they are like Sen. Brownback who thinks it better women die of AIDS than go risk going to the hot place after death because she used a condom: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2008/2353921.htm
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lolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. Yep--the one who raped his wife
In their divorce hearings, I believe she testified that he would force himself on her, anally, and then when she protested he would say he was confused and couldn't tell what he was doing -- and he was an OB/GYN.

I'm not posting this just to be lurid--it's a window into the way these people think about women and sex. And it has nothing to do with saving babies, real or snowflake.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
62. In fact here is an article about him, David Hager. Very real.
Sexual and emotional abuse of his wife....yet heading a big organization.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0512-21.htm

"Back at Asbury, Hager cast himself as a victim of religious persecution in his sermon. "You see...there is a war going on in this country," he said gravely. "And I'm not speaking about the war in Iraq. It's a war being waged against Christians, particularly evangelical Christians. It wasn't my scientific record that came under scrutiny . It was my faith.... By making myself available, God has used me to stand in the breach.... Just as he has used me, he can use you."

Up on the dais, several men seated behind Hager nodded solemnly in agreement. But out in the audience, Linda Carruth Davis--co-author with Hager of Stress and the Woman's Body, and, more saliently, his former wife of thirty-two years--was enraged. "It was the most disgusting thing I've ever heard," she recalled months later, through clenched teeth.

According to Davis, Hager's public moralizing on sexual matters clashed with his deplorable treatment of her during their marriage. Davis alleges that between 1995 and their divorce in 2002, Hager repeatedly sodomized her without her consent. Several sources on and off the record confirmed that she had told them it was the sexual and emotional abuse within their marriage that eventually forced her out. "I probably wouldn't have objected so much, or felt it was so abusive if he had just wanted normal sex all the time," she explained to me. "But it was the painful, invasive, totally nonconsensual nature of the sex that was so horrible."

Not once during the uproar over Hager's FDA appointment did any reporter solicit the opinion of the woman now known as Linda Davis--she remarried in November 2002 to James Davis, a Methodist minister, and relocated to southern Georgia--on her husband's record, even though she contributed to much of his self-help work in the Christian arena (she remains a religious and political conservative). She intermittently thought of telling her story but refrained, she says, out of respect for her adult children. It was Hager's sermon at Asbury last October that finally changed her mind. Davis was there to hear her middle son give a vocal performance; she was prepared to hear her ex-husband inveigh against secular liberals, but she was shocked to hear him speak about their divorce when he took to the pulpit."
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. I wonder what impact this will have on the debate?
White House To Meet With Anti-Abortion Activists Next Week

Concerned that health care reform bills in Congress don’t explicitly exclude coverage for abortion, Charmaine Yoest of Americans United for Life Action – a former senior advisor to the 2008 Huckabee for President campaign – wrote to President Obama in June.

Both the House and Senate bills “would delegate to bureaucratic committees the role of determining the minimum benefits that any private or public health care plan must offer,” Yoest wrote to President Obama. “Courts have broadly interpreted the ‘mandatory categories of care’ within Medicaid – such as ‘family planning,’ ‘outpatient services,’ ‘inpatient services,’ and ‘physician services’ -- to include abortion. Therefore, there is little doubt that courts will also include abortion within such categories in any health care reform bill unless abortion is expressly excluded.”

Yoest said that whatever her Republican past, “We’re a non-partisan group so I felt like we in good faith needed to make the effort” to reach out to the White House.

The White House responded to Yoest, and she will meet on Thursday, Sept. 17 with President Obama's domestic policy adviser and the director of the Domestic Policy Council, Melody Barnes, and White House director of public liaison Tina Tchen.

~Snip~


The only thing that is helping here is that Melody Barnes was a board member of Emily's List.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. The time to push back was 20-25 years ago.
Just as madfloridian has done the yeowomen's work of trying to get it into DUers thick skulls that charter schools are a foot in the door towards the privatization of public schools, pro-choice activists were warning that the anti-choice movement would not stop at abortion... we had no doubt that once successful in making abortion, if not illegal but an expensive and arduous process, then they would go after birth control. When Democrats allowed "consciousness clauses" and public money to fund religious health delivery services, it was too late to save abortion as a reproductive right.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Nice comments...
but the fight to save public schools is failing because bloggers will not pick up on the fight. They hardly mention it at all.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Too many of the "big" bloggers focus on the circus that is
electoral politics and too little on policy while belittling collective action. It's as if it is by design.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Foresight sucks!
:hi:
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. The ALL was behind the "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy" sign
This one:




You can just see the "ALL" logo in white at the bottom. (There are some pictures floating around where it's more readable, but this was the first one I came up with.) That stands for American Life League, the group referenced in the OP.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Ah, I missed that tiny logo. What a ugly sentiment that is.
I am so tired of these people and their lack of caring.
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NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Wow. That is beyond despicable.
Can you imagine the fury if someone had been shown with a "Bury Reagonomics with Reagan" sign a week or two after his funeral? In the backlash, the person would have have either been driven out of the country or landed in prison on trumped-up charges of being a terrorist.

OK, in honor of that sign, I feel I need to make one that says "Piss on Reagonomics", place it on St. Ronnies grave, and then proceed to piss on it. The latter won't be an easy thing to do as a female but that's a relatively small sacrifice in the whole scheme of things.

I think you just found a shoe-in as #1 for Olbermann's "Worst person in the World."

Seeing things like the pic you posted, I often wonder what the hell this country is coming to. I'm all for splitting the country in two. Idiots on one side and normal, thinking people on the other. Gee, which side do you think would fare better?
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NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm pro-choice and pro-life. So WTF does that mean?
Well, being pro-choice means that I absolutely 100% support the woman's right to have an abortion if she so chooses. I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever about my tax dollars going to support that decision. It's a medical decision and as such, it's between a woman and her doctor.

Being pro-life means that I absolutely 100% object to the fact that any portion whatsoever of my tax dollars goes to support the killing machine known as the MIC/DOD. Where the fuck are the christo-fascists when it comes to illegal wars, paid mercenaries gunning down innocent civilians, "extraordinary renditions," torture, and all the other atrocities that have been committed under the guise of "national defense?" Since they're silent with regard to these current taxpayer-supported killing machines, they can kiss my ass when it comes to abortion.

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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
60. +1 !!!!!!!
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. bipartisan comes before integrity these days so jus get over it lol nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. That is just about the truth.
:hi:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
18. That's what happens when you enable and legitimize the lunatic right
Something I suspect that the Obama administration and the Democratic "leadership" in congress will never learn/i].
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. It will NEVER satisfy them! We should do the OPPOSITE - push for PUBLIC FINANCING of birth control
AND abortion!

Take it to the HIGHEST level!

You don't "negotiate" from a COMPROMISED position!!!
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NoUsername Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Fully agree.
And as DangerousRhythm points out in post #6, birth control is very often prescribed for MEDICAL issues. If they attempt to deny women birth control pills they need for medical problems, they'd better damn well be prepared to deny men prescriptions for Viagra.

Dems always "negotiate" from a compromised position. It's their MO. They say things while campaigning that they have absolutely no intention of doing and when they pull the "bait and switch" later on, they pass it off as "bipartisanship..." It never fails. It's LONG time past to call them on their BS act.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. hear hear n/t
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. There is no negotiation. This goes with the current law I'd guess
Abortion funding with Federal money was already banned but as far as I know birth control has no such restrictions and I doubt the Republiscum will put up enough of a stink on this one to cause the bluedogs to worry about this one. On birth control they tend to lose too many internal votes to mount any significant attack in that area as it relates to this bill.

There is obviously a larger battle going on in health issues but the abortion deal in this health care bill is already the law of the land. I don't quite get the disconnect. When that law is rescinded on Federal abortion funding then things will be different but burying the larger health insurance reform issue with fighting an abortion battle is probably hard to argue as sensible considering the basic difficulty factor and distraction level without muddying the waters ourselves.

This insurance reform bill and the abortion battle are separate though related issues at this time due to established law, similar to the unauthorized migrant stuff. These are all different systemic problems with separate remedies. I don't get the need to make every bill the omnibus government/society correction package when these issues have specific law that can be addressed that changes the total government interaction.
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Agree with this...
We need to fight harder against this minority that wants religion to control our government and our consciences and choices.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. President Obama Promises a "Robust Conscience Clause"........

and do not forget that he promised this in his health care speech again last Wednesday!!



President Obama Promises a "Robust Conscience Clause"


..........THE PRESIDENT: Hundreds of thousands of comments, including from Catholic providers, the bishops have weighed in, et cetera. We will be coming out with I think more specific guidelines. But I can assure all of your readers that when this review is complete there will be a robust conscience clause in place. It may not meet the criteria of every possible critic of our approach, but it certainly will not be weaker than what existed before the changes were made.



Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:39 PM

http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2009/07/02/president-obama-promises-a-robust-conscience-clause.aspx



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes, he discussed it often with Catholics, but not very much with progressives.
"THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that the only reason that my position may appear unclear is because it came in the wake of a last-minute, 11th-hour change in conscience clause provisions that were pushed forward by the previous administration that we chose to reverse. But my underlying position has always been consistent, which is I'm a believer in conscience clauses. I was a supporter of a robust conscience clause in Illinois for Catholic hospitals and health care providers. I discussed this with Cardinal George when he was here in the Oval Office, and I reiterated my support for an effective conscience clause in my speech at Notre Dame.

So I think that there have been some who keep on anticipating the worst from us, and it's not based on anything I've said or done, but is rather just a perception somehow that we have some hard-line agenda that we're seeking to push."

No bright lines, no hard line agenda
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
84. The problem manifest itself when the various religious hospitals are owned by Catholic orders.
This is a real threat since many hospitals that were once owned by religious groups or were secular institutions that provided contraception, serialization and even limited abortion services have been taken over by Catholic orders that refuse to provide these services. This is presently happening in the Denver area. It is a de facto imposition of their doctrines on non-Catholics. In fact, the vast majority of Catholics don't believe in the Church's Dark Ages' doctrines on human sexuality.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Pardon the expression, but OMG. Does this man not know we are a SECULAR NATION??
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. He either doesn't, pretends not to, or doesn't care.
When it comes to the religious right, he's an accomodationist of the highest order. If they want something, he does everything he can to make sure they're happy. He expanded *'s faith-based bullshit and he now has religious leaders officially advising him on policy. Even when they don't ask for something, he gives it to them.

If this were a game of chess, he's have sacrificed all of his pawns, most of his actual pieces, and is furiously working a lathe to fashion some new pieces to sacrifice.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #39
69. sometimes I do wonder.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. On the ballot in Revere, MA. Interesting.
http://www.reverejournal.com/2009/09/12/opponents-succeed-in-putting-the-issue-to-a-vote/

"Officially the question reads, “Should the School Committee temporarily suspend the distribution of contraception and Plan B (known as the ‘Morning after Pill’) at Revere High School and form an advisory council, that includes parents and others pursuant to the Massachusetts General Laws, to evaluate the health risks and benefits of both contraception and abstinence. Such council shall submit recommendations to the School Committee for consideration prior to their deciding whether to lift the suspension. So the question doesn’t require the schools to stop the program altogether if passed, but rather to suspend the program until there is more public discussion."

I am impressed with the words of this superintendent.

"School Superintendent Paul Dakin said he didn’t understand the opposition, calling it a Catholic issue and one that wished to take rights away from parents.

“Clearly, it’s a Catholic, religious issue with them,” he said. “My position is still that I don’t see why some people have the right to take away the rights of some others…Where are they going to stop it? Where does a religious group stop their efforts?”

He said that any parent who doesn’t want this service doesn’t have to sign up for the health center, and, furthermore, anyone who signs up for the health center can opt out of the contraception program.

“I don’t see where the church has the right to dictate what decisions a parent, doctor and kid makes about health,” he said."
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
28. Again. We. Told. You. So.
Feminists saw this coming from the 80s. We tried to explain it to people.

Sigh.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You are right. Women are expendable, the religious right is not.
We had a chance through the years to make ourselves a big voice in the party, but we failed to do it.

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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. yep.
Who gives a fuck about women?

The March for Women's Lives... largest march ever on Washington... meaningless.

Rape. Meaningless.

Incest. Meaningless.

Primetime teevee an arena of hypersexualized women? Meaningless.

Cultural obsession with women as nothing more than sex toys? Meaningless.

Violence against women rising. Meaningless.

Trafficking epidemic. Meaningless.

Plenty of hotties. You betcha.

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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
51. Seconded
So much for us hysterical feminists and our over-the-top hyperbole.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
80. Indeed. nt
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. When this is finished
I'm afraid (convinced) that Democrats and the WH will claim a victory, but the winners will be the right wing, Pharma, and Insurance. They will get more than they had before we started.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Well, they have taken nearly all the reform out of health care reform, so why should this be any...

Different....
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
32. We concede - they demand more. Again and again.
They have not, are not and will not negotiate in good faith on any aspect of reform - not on health, energy, not on anything.

Past time to wake up about this.

Another exceptional post, madfloridian.

Big K&R

:kick:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Once a weakling's measure is taken, one cannot expect the opponent to settle for less than total
victory.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. The slavery of women is "not as bad" under Democrats.
:sarcasm:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. They hate women, it's that simple.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
75. yes.
:(
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. This is Why You Have to Fight for True Health Care, and Kill the "Corporate Insurance," etc.
This proves again the absolute folly of people who believe that if we just fight for some crappy bill that does not help anything or get corporations out of the system, etc., that that will be a "great start" and then we can "build" from there. You notice here, how things really work: THEY are the ones advancing! If the corporate/archcon forces on the other side can get you to accept a weak or even damaging bill now, WHY would they ever open this topic up for discussion and let you back to the table again?

The recent Health Care Bill markup session in the House (Waxman) Committee, on C-SPAN, before they went on their August break, was very instructive. Over and over, there was a bloc of male Republicans and a few male "D"LC, voting to kill all abortion and birth control coverage and education, which had to be fiercely fought. Waxman supported the ban on abortion payments if anyone had "moral" oppostion to it, even if medically necessary. There was an attempt to water down language on rape, to cover subsequent, needed abortions; Waxman was going to agree to it--with Republicans, on behalf of the Committee--and women Democrats had to object. It was sickening and scary.

At the "town hall" spectacle with Representative Jim Moran of Virginia, and Howard Dean, there was a violent disruption when anti-abortion terrorists started shouting and attacking Dean. As they were being escorted out by police, and the crowd cheered and wanted them gone, do you know what Moran then did? Offered to give their leader, the bastard Randall Terry, the opportunity to give a five-minute speech at the front of the room, and ask the first question!! WHY do they do this??

You do not tell the truth when you just play it safe and always call it "religious." They are male bigots who do not care about women's issues or the oppression against them--just like here on DU.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
38. Taliban, American-Style.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. I want to know why these donations are
tax deductable and my contributions to Planned Parenthood are not!
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
76. seriously...!
talk about b.s.

:grr::mad:
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
42. Very important. Thanks for shining the light on this outrage.
This element that screams they don't want government taking over their health care are perfectly willing to have government involved in this issue. Of course, this has to do with ........ SEX!!!!!!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
57. It is an outrage. It is caving in to religion.
On things that should be handled in a secular manner.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #57
66. And respecting the privacy of the individual! nt
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. Note that most private insurers cover abortion. So when the Christian Coalition says they
object to a public option because it will increase access to abortions...

they lie!
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. Republicans don't bargain in good faith
and they constantly lie. That's why I won't talk to them. I have better things to do with my time and so should congressional Democrats, like doing the job we elected them to do.
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. K&R!
I can't believe we are still fighting this.


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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
52. They will probably get their way
No need to even post about it. They will get their way. The 'right' always does. We get shit on. That's that.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
53. I wrote to the Whitehouse.
and referenced this thread. It's excellent and I hope the President will consider the points made here.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
54. Obama is a sheep in wolf's clothing. He will NOT support the people who supported him. Instead he
is only concerned with accommodating those who didn't.

I noted this early on when Obama, after sitting in Rev. Wright's congregation for 20 years, disowned him after Wright made some inflammatory statements. No matter what you thought of Wright's statements, for Obama to turn his back on him so readily was a betrayal of their long-term relationship, to compare Wright to a crazy uncle, was so demeaning. That showed a lack of character on Obama's part that troubled me. I have seen that same lack of character on display since Obama has become president when it comes to standing up for positions Obama KNOWS that many of us voted for him to support.

When it comes to reproductive issues, I know how Rev. Wright felt. Those of us for whom this is a very important issue, have had the rug pulled out from under us by Obama himself. He's a caver. I don't see that changing at all. It's just how he is.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
55. To be expected.
As soon as you take a step back, the line in the sand shifts, and you are stepping back again.

:grr:
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
56. It's a battle against poor women
rich women can just go in and have their GYN do a 'D & C' and write it up as something else, and can afford to pay for the pill. Even the ones that go to church. Religious righteousness is an illusion, they are the worst for having these quiet procedures.

Now with the economy failing, and the Earth suffering, is the time for contraception. What an insane policy, to pander to the religious right ===they are not the ones that won the election===

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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
58. Um... is Viagra... out .... or.... in? I'm just checking....
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
59. would the 'beginning of biological development' include mere sperm?

can the freaks please leave the country already? please?!
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
61. This is why you never negotiate with terrorists.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
64. Of course they are.
There are three groups making this happen:
1) The religious right pushing it.
2) Other conservatives who are simply anti-women.
3) The so-called moderates and liberals who enable it.

Sam Harris' "concentric circles of diminishing reasonableness" can be applied to this--at the center, there are the active fundamentalists, who all sane and reasonable people recognize as crazy and dangerous. Surrounding are fundamentalists who aren't active. Surrounding them are other conservatives who disagree on some things and support them on others (esp. racism, misogyny, and homophobia). Beyond them are so-called moderates who don't consider themselves anti-women, but still oppose and/or demonize abortion. Further from the center still are so-called liberals and progressives who are either willfully or genuinely ignorant of the issue and see it merely as a bargaining chip.

Criticism and opposition to the fundamentalists at the center has to run the gauntlet of the outer layers; the outer layers (possibly inadvertently) protect the nutjobs. At the same time, opponents of women's rights present whole mass of people who either oppose reproductive rights or are indifferent to them as a unified bloc like a group of meerkats clustering together to scare away a predator.

There are posters on this board who belong to one of the outer layers of misogynist appeasers. I don't know if they don't understand the issue or simply don't care. Either way, the so-called progressives who stand in the way reproductive freedom for women are the 'pro-life' movement's first line of defense against giving women the ability to exercise their rights.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #64
72. You make very good points.... many progressives enable it.
Because they appear to believe that womens' rights must be seen in the context of winning, no other way.

Many here take that stand.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
65. Birth control is used widely. Only fanatics don't use it.
Rest assured, these people will just make fools of themselves. The Catholic Church has not succeeded in coercing its faithful into abstaining from birth control methods of various kinds. This is not really an issue.
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sorrowspath Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
67. we must put a halt to this madness NOW
Edited on Mon Sep-14-09 03:05 AM by sorrowspath
We must fight back, no more Mr. Nice guy, This is freaking United States of America and we are still believing in the rules created by 2000 year old desert nomads hallucinating from lack of water.

Maybe we should threaten our Democrat politicians of boycotting the next election. If we vote for them, they'd let themselves be bullied by the lunatic republicans, if we don't vote for them, Republicans gets the seats,either way we're fuck.

This primitive ideology ends NOW. Next thing you know. they will be demanding "No health care for atheists and gays". Maybe our politicians need to be reminded that they won because we wanted change.

Oh and remind them 70% > 30% . Sen them emails, send them letters. They're trying to reach out to the hopeless braindead, they must have forgotten that is was WE who was there for them last eelction and this is our payback?
Send them emails, send them letters, If you're mad let it contain vulgarities and let it show that we're mad, just don't forget to point out that you vote for them because they promised change.

The only reason this Christian Nazis wants no birth control in this country is to be able to breed a new generation of uneducated superstitious people to increase their lobbying power. If you want to loose your National Identity, fight back.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
68. This is not new
It has nothing to do with HCR. These folks have been after abortion and birth control all along. They are idiots, but they have been so all along.

The whole point of the "personhood" ammendments was never limited to abortion alone, it always included many methods of BC and RU 486.

These deluded souls wander the earth imagining they can shove the genie back into the bottle. They actually think people discovered the pleasure of sex shortly after the invention of the pill and if they can only get it banned, people will start "saving themselves for marriage like they did before". Of course, any reasonable reading of history indicates that people never did.

This is just one more aspect of Reagan's fantasy "Main Street USA" myth that needs to die. People have sex because they enjoy it, it is not sin to do so.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. Too late to recommend, but here's a kick. Thanks again for being ever-vigilant and
informative, Madflo.

Thank Dawg we have Tim Kaine heading up the DNC. I'm pretty sure that means we have Dawg on our side.

Scary, scary stuff that most Americans do not even think about.

Last week I was at Monticello, Thomas Jefferson's homeplace, taking the guided tour. It was very refreshing that the tour guide EMPHASIZED to all of us turistas how strongly Jefferson pushed for separation of church and state.





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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
71. Birth control (of any kind) is, and always will be, abortion's runner-up "controversy" issue.
They would never be satisfied with simply making abortion illegal... the issue (for them) would just evolve to any kind of family planning.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
73. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
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vinylsolution Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
74. As soon as you....
... concede an inch to these idiots, they want another mile.

Push back NOW, and push back HARD!





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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-14-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
81. It Appears We are not Free in this country from Religious Indoctrination
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
82. One has to remember the only reason the "minority" dictates
their so called "morals" is because it is within the corporate interest for the insurance companies NOT to pay for the "immoral" services. It's more a matter of money, honey. ;)

What is sadly lost on the lifers, is that abortion will only go back alley and be more dangerous, but for them it's not really about "life", never has been, since most of them would let children starve in the streets rather than fund programs to ensure health and food for those in poverty, the same babies they claim to "choose" life for, but have no problem with denying sustenance.

The religious right are foolish zealots, warring is their way, lifers are the height of hypocrisy.
You can't claim to honor life and deny health care for all.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
83. K & R n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-15-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
85. exactly as many of us predicted...
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