AP: ACORN fires 2 after hidden-camera footage aired

[Kadie]

ACORN fires 2 after hidden-camera footage aired

8 mins ago

BALTIMORE – The nonprofit housing group ACORN has fired two employees at its Baltimore office who were seen on hidden-camera video giving advice to a man posing as a pimp and a woman pretending to be a prostitute.

Fox News Channel broadcast excerpts from the video Thursday. Those excerpts showed a man and woman asking about buying a house and how to account on tax forms for the woman's income. An ACORN employee advises the woman to list her occupation as "performance artist."

Maryland ACORN board member Margaret Williams says in a statement the employees "did not meet ACORN's standards of professionalism."

The statement also says the video was an attempt to smear ACORN and that undercover teams attempted similar stunts at three other ACORN offices.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090910/ap_on_re_us/us_acorn_hidden_camera_1

[Critters2]

1. There's a question that needs to be asked:

How many attempts were made before they found one bad apple? Also needs to be noted that ACORN fired this one.

So, as usual, nothing to see here. But try and explain that to the Beckheads.

[AspenRose]

4. Three.

It took them three tries. (For real.)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. on a weird note

i have not seen this commercial that you reference in probably 35 years...and it has come up twice today...weird...

[Occulus]

46. I'm 34 and I remember it from when I was a kid.

I saw it occasionally on TvLand a few times in the '90s, though.

[Luminous Animal]

47. And then they stopped.

I could walk down the street and ask people if they hate Obama, get three affirmatives and one negative and then state< "3 out of 4 people hate Obama."

[paulsby]

18. NOTHING TO SEE HERE?

cmon.

it is certainly not established that what these two people did was encouraged etc. by their superiors. i will give you that. otoh, it's hard ot believe they would be so brazen in engaging in such blatantly illegal behavior if there wasn't a culture of corruption in that office.

iow, i would find it extremely likely that this office (baltimore) has a culture of such corruption.

time will tell. or not

it's an incredibly damning video, though.

it is mind boggling how cavalier this woman is in facilitating criminal behavior, to include trafficking in minors for prostitution for pete's sake

[LisaL]

32. WTF would you consider something worth seeing?

[Mugu]

40. Self delete.

[virgogal]

2. Uuummmm---there was a little more to it than the "performance artist"

advice.

[abelenkpe2]

3. haven't seen it, where is it?

Is it worse than any realtor or lenders advice during the housing boom? Do you have a link?



It does seem like a coordinated attempt to discredit ACORN. Those wingnuts love to hate ACORN.

[blondeatlast]

5. "...realtor's advice..." VERY good point. During the boom years,

did realtors even have a code of ethics?

[yawnmaster]

6. Realtors actually do have a code of ethics...here it is...

and realize that all real estate agents are not Realtors. You have to belong to the correct organization to be designated a Realtor.

http://www.realtor.org/MemPolWeb.nsf/pages/COde

[virgogal]

7. Here's part of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtTnizEnC1U

[Hannah Bell]

48. that's surreal.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. Here's the video up on YouTube. I'd direct you to 5:30, where she's told

that the two are going to import approximately 13 El Salvadoran girls around the age of 15 to put them up as prostitutes until they can get on their feet and out on their own.

First the woman recommends issuing them 1099's, then says that if they're not going to get Social Security numbers, they don't have to worry about declaring the money they bring in at all.

She's very clearly aware that they're underage, coming to work as prostitutes, and in the end even recommends claiming some of them as dependents.

Yeah, I'd say that was worse than realtor or lender advice during the boom.

[emilyg]

9. Disgusting. Needed to be fired.

[abelenkpe2]

10. whoa!

Yeah, that's not good. Poor ACORN this will just fan the flames of hatred further on the right. It's sad, I'm sure most of them are just trying to make the world a better place.

FOX must be having a heyday.

[nyhuskyfan]

14. Trouble is...

If it was a Wal-Mart cashier doing something stupid and Wal-Mart fired him/her, nobody would hold anything against Wal-Mart, other than perhaps not doing a better job of screening job applicants at that particular store.

What one ACORN person does automatically represents the whole organization's point of view in some people's eyes.

[gatorboy]

17. While the rest of the world has moved on to more important things.

[paulsby]

19. the denial here is amazing

there is no way anybody who has actually watched the video could come to any other conclusion than that this woman was facilitating and aiding SERIOUS felonies.

or so she thought

trafficking in minors for sexual purposes across state lines alone is a serious felony.

sorry, but the spin on this here is just amazing. let's face fact. this woman is a complete piece of shit, and imo it's hard to believe that she (and her partner) would have been so brazen in their coaching if there wasn 't a culture of corruption in THAT office.

but you need to watch the video. it doesn't matter if you love or hate ACORN. it doesn't matter that wingnuts do.

just watch the video

[ecstatic]

22. A bad apple can be found in any organization. Even Congress nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. There's another thread on this in which a prominent DUer makes the claim that every question asked

by the two imposters has been dubbed. "I watched one video on youtube and all of the questions that were supposedly asked of the women were dubbed over."

:crazy:

[paulsby]

26. lol

cognitive dissonance. it's what's for breakfast.

[el_bryanto]

77. Actually it's plausible

At least as plausible as two community organizers helping set up a brothel for underage girls.

Bryant

[notesdev]

98. Try watching the actual video

And you will see that it is not at all plausible. The ACORN staffers talk directly on the subject of prostitution.

[Solomon]

25. No. What's amazing is your inartful construct.

I see nobody on this thread putting any spin or denial on this. You are falsy claiming this. What people are saying is you can't blame the entire Acorn organization for the criminal acts of two employees. My wife was earlier saying the same thing about her company. If an employee fucks up they get fired, but no one would suggest shutting down the company because of that.

Nobody is denying what they did was stupid and criminal.

Nice try though.

[paulsby]

27. if you see nobody putting spin on this

then your eyes are closed. read some of the responses for pete's sake

fwiw, i am not saying you can blame ACORN on the whole. i *am* saying that imo and ime it is LIKELY that there was some culture of corruption within THAT office, based on the fact that the women were so brazen. it is hard for me to believe that they would have been so brazen if it wasn't a somewhat par for the course thing

could i be wrong? of course.

[Hannah Bell]

43. link one.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

51. post #33 in this very thread... (n/t)

[paulsby]

53. i'll even quote it for our skeptic, hella LOL

"it looked like blantant racism and intrapment. Would those ladies have thought up those ideas on their own? Most of us want to be polite and accomodating to whoever we meet. They were setup.

And the hooker and pimp were white. Isn't that intimadation?"

that's not just garden variety spin. that's tasmanian devil on speed (tm) spin!


the hooker and pimp were WHITE! any time a white person asks a black person a question, it's INTIMIDATION. and they were just being POLITE by giving detailed, specific advice about how to dodge taxes while running a juvenile prostitution ring. it's right on page 6 of miss manners "if a pimp and prostitute come to your office requesting legal advice on taxation to conceal their numerous felonies, one must be polite and give them specific tax evasion strategies" and of course these ladies were too intimidated to call the POLICE, which is what you do when you have knowledge of a frigging juvenile prostitution ring. kkeeeerrriiiiist

[Hansel]

56. The whole campaign against ACORN is about racism.

Really. http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12342

"ACORN is the nation’s largest grassroots community organization of low- and moderate-income people with over 400,000 member families organized into more than 1,200 neighborhood chapters in 110 cities across the country...ACORN helps those who have historically been locked out become powerful players in our democratic system."

It largely serves the inner city and Blacks.

Obama was a community organizer. Palin mocked community organizers and got a huge laugh from it. Community organizers largely work in the inner city with Blacks beside there is a great deal of need. Fox and the right wing have been on a media smear campaign against ACORN for well over a year now.

Most of the people you see being arrested from ACORN and this woman are Black. The leadership is largely Black.

When something is that obvious you really need to catch a clue.


What she did was wrong and she should have been and was fired for it. I've worked for many organizations that I've seen people fired from, including very reputable ones. But the entire organization isn't impugned for it. In fact, it was ACORN itself that turned in the people who were engaged in voter registration fraud but somehow the media has made them out to be the bad guys.

Edit to remove comment from quote.

[paulsby]

58. it's totally irrelevant to the points made

THIS particular example of corruption is mind bogglingly disgusting.

i am sure that SOME opponents of ACORN have a racist angle, and many others don't. it's not really relevant to the instant case.


and my point was about the SPIN, which i quoted and you haven't even ADDRESSED.

[Hansel]

63. What she is was disgusting and she was fired for it.

So that says that ACORN is pretty on top of dealing with employee issues.

Also, this particular couple of actors tried this on several other ACORN employees and got nowhere with it. Do you see that video anywhere? No, because they have an agenda.

The SPIN is the smear campaign that the RW has going on against ACORN. Your unawareness or denial of that is your choice.

[paulsby]

64. except the primary issue i referenced...

i was talking about the ridiculous post that i quoted that is beyond birther like in its sheer dismissal of any semblance of reality.

but since it ostensibly attacks those who investigated this ACORN office, it doesn't deserve scorn?

got it.

i was talking about some of the DU spin.

[Hansel]

66. I think your assessment is a little over-the-top.

I think that the poster might be sensitive to the smear campaign that has been going on with Fox News and the right wing against ACORN. That is the semblance of reality. They might be comments based on emotion, but there is some reality to base them on.

The birther movement his pulled out of someone's ass (also as a part of a smear campaign from the RW). I think it is a little hyperbolic to compare the two.

Again, she was and should have been fired. It is arguable that she was entrapped and that the motives of the people involved was racism. That is not a stretch.

[paulsby]

67. i heartily disagree

if similar ridiculous unsubstantiated black helicoper rhetoric were used by a birther or creationist you would lol'ing

but since their INTENT is good, the substance doesn't matter

god, i have seen that so much.

[Hansel]

69. That's your right. nt

[paulsby]

70. yes, my right to call out unsubstantiated absurdity. it's part of my chahm nt

[The Magistrate]

82. One Hates To Burst Your Bubble, Sir

But thousands of prostitutes all over the country pay taxes, process credit card charges, purchase automobiles and homes on credit, and do so on advice of the sort given in these films. They pay an hourly charge, of course, to lawyers and accountants for the advice, which is substantial. A fair proportion of both these professions earn a living advising people how to structure their affairs so they appear to meet the requirements of law, and will escape notice by the authorities. The discussions with professionals are usually couched in hypotheticals, occasionally interrupted by exclaimations on the lines of 'don't tell me that!' or 'I didn't hear that!', and a decent facade of deniability is kept up, even as everyone involved knows exactly what is occurring.

People doing what the people on these videos did, in the position they were when they did, behaved very stupidly. Their first mistake was not pointing out to the person who claimed to be a law student that he should not need to solicit their advice, if that is what he actually was, but rather should turn to one of his professors, or to the law library. Anyone with even half a first year of law school should have been aware of anything these people told him. To say their 'street smarts' were well below par is understating the matter considerably. Their major mistake, of course, was not being professionals with their own office, and levying a substantial charge by the hour to such clients.

[yawnmaster]

83. how many of the thousands of prostitutes also put 3 of their 13 underage...

prostitutes on their tax from as a dependent. And how many of their lawyers suggest they do that?
Or suggest other ways of keeping your teenage prostitutes from being seen by the law?

[The Magistrate]

85. Hard To Say, Sir: That Would Require More Knowledge Of The Trade Than Mine

But since the thing does occur, you may be sure legal advice is available and provided.

[paulsby]

86. your cluelessness about the law is impressive. oh and ACORN just fired two more people

an attorney CAN represent a criminal client (like a prostitute).

an attorney CANNOT (ethically or legally) give advice on HOW TO BREAK THE LAW.

ever.

i know PLENTY of defense attorneys, and civil attorneys. i spend hundreds of hours in court. you do not know anything about the code of legal ethics.

ACORN employees, also as recipients of federal money, fall under even more guidelines.

here's a little hint. an ACORN employee cannot give advice to ANYBODY on how to BREAK the law, FILE FALSE documents, etc.

at least ACORN is doing the right thing. they've fired FOUR employees now, last i heard. because employees of their WA office ALSO were caught in this sting.

that STRONGLY suggests, if not outright SCREAMS culture of corruption

[The Magistrate]

88. Where Do You Find Me Saying It Is Either Legal Or Ethical, Sir?

It is simply common, which is hardly the same thing. If you wish to pretend, and at high dudgeon, that the code of legal ethics is honored in all instances, you are free to do so, but really cannot expect to be taken seriously.

My comment on the employees' behavior was that they were very stupid, and certainly should have twigged to the fact that they were being conned within moments. That they were fired is certainly proper. That the incident has any significance, however, is nonesense.

It remains a fact that people give exactly the sort of advice they gave, to genuine criminals, in professional suites at good pay, without undue risk, and no noteriety. If they want to give such advice, that is the route they should take. Amateurs should not try and horn in on established rackets....

"He must a' done sum'pin'. They doan do ya like dat if ya ain't done sum'pin'."

[paulsby]

89. i certainly don't believe it is common

and i wouldn't stand for it if i saw it.

and in 20+ years of law enforcement and in dealing with both prosecutors and defense attorneys (and suspects) i've never had an inkling that it was occurring

"My comment on the employees' behavior was that they were very stupid, and certainly should have twigged to the fact that they were being conned within moments"

but that misses the bigger point. anybody who would HELP a frigging pimp in setting up a CHILD PROSTITUTION ring is a piece of scum.

it's not quite as direct as child molesting, but not much better.

and it is true that the GENERAL POPULACE can give a criminal advice on how to better commit crimes, how to evade the law, etc. that is not illegal. heck, it's a first amendment issue.

an attorney cannot nor can an ACORN employee.

giving advice of such a manner in and of itself is not (generally) a crime. generally speaking, it requires an overt act or a conspiracy (which necessarily includes an agreement).

[The Magistrate]

91. You Know, Sir, You Can Shout All You Like, It Gives Your Words No More Weight

It is in the nature of things that policemen seldom witness crimes directly, at least not crimes committed by competent criminals, and after a moment's calm reflection you will doubtless agree.

My direct comments on the sex trade were that thousands of prostitutes pay taxes, bill on credit cards, purchase substantial items on credit, and the like, and that in doing so, they receive advice from legal and tax professionals on how to manage this without drawing notice. They are mostly not people even a vice cop would often encounter. That the professionals who advise them violate various laws in doing so hardly needs stating, but you would surely not maintain either that crime does not occur, or that even a large fraction of crimes committed result in arrest, prosecution, and sentencing. You have said nothing that even addresses, let alone rebuts, my statement that what the people on the tape are doing is simply what such professionals do, in somewhat better appointed situations. That knowledge conditions my broadest reaction to this, which is that it brings no great shock, and is novel only in its setting rather than its content.

That the persons on the tape may be, as you say, pieces of scum, is certainly possible, but not of much interest, pieces of scum being a dime a dozen in venues ranging from neighborhood alleys to offices on K Street, and even the front seats of squad cars. We neither of us at this point in the thing know enough about it to form firm conclusions about the totality of the incidents, and the people involved. We know that the persons on the tapes were fired by the organization, as not meeting its standards of professionalism, so we may infer that they did not properly report the encounter to their management, or treat it as an encounter with a genuine criminal ought to be treated. We do not know whether they took the people who came into the office with this ludicrous tale seriously; we do not even know whether there was collusion between them and the people making the tape. It is generally best to reserve judgement and condemnation until all the facts are known.

[paulsby]

93. here we go

"It is in the nature of things that policemen seldom witness crimes directly, at least not crimes committed by competent criminals, and after a moment's calm reflection you will doubtless agree."

well THIS policeman worked for years undercover. i spent WAY more time with suspects than with other cops. none of them ever once mentioned any sort of advice like that given by their attorneys. i am talking career criminals. convicted killers, high level dope dealers, etc.

they told me plenty of stuff their defense attorneys did tell them. none ever said anything remotely like what you are claiming

the most ironic thing they ever told me was how to spot an undercover cop. they gave me all sorts of advice. i found that immensely funny because i was an undercover cop and they didn't know it.

they had no reason to lie to me. i was their frigging doper buddy for fuck's sake.

they certainly were loose lipped about all sorts of great criminal activity from illegal guns, to vials of liquid acid, to stolen property.
i am well aware of the issues in the second paragraph

1) this was not just a prostitution ring. it was a CHILD prostitution ring
2) acorn employees are acting under federal grant and were giving advice on tax evasion, false document filing, etc.

it is not the case that they MAY be pieces of scum.

seriously. they frigging willingly helped a pimp in his quest to pimp out teenage girls. that is scum. period end of story.

there are more than enough facts known at this point to make that conclusion. any sentient being who watches that tape and doesn't feel utter revulsion towards these women should maybe spend a little time with a 14 yr old girl who has been pimped into prostitution. i have. also, a 16 yr old. fucking pimping assholes.

and fwiw, i am all for legalized prostitution. with ADULTS.

not 14 yr old child runaways being forced into it.

[The Magistrate]

96. If You Say So, Sir....

My only knowledge of you is that you are posting on this site at a clip of roughly thirty posts a day, which takes a good deal of time, and is not easy to blend in with a productive work-schedule.

You may consider our exchange concluded.

"Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know."

[paulsby]

99. when you have no facts

accuse the other person of being inauthentic.

how novel

[notesdev]

92. Thank you, paulsby

I am astonished to witness alleged Democrats rallying to the defense of people who with eyes open clearly had NO problem with aiding the sexual slavery of minors.

My blood has run cold. What has happened to this party, that it is not unanimous in unambiguous condemnation this behavior? I can't believe people are actually arguing with you.

[paulsby]

94. thank you

fwiw, i have handled two cases in my 20 yrs of police work involving minors who were forced into prostitution. 16 and 14. both because addicted to crystal meth and when their pushers had them fully hooked, and they were fully out of a source of income, he corraled them into hooking. in those 20 yrs of police work, i have never used excessive force, been accused of it, etc. but i REALLY wanted to fucking mash that guy's face into a pulp. i was satisfied that he got a looooooooong prison sentence.

[notesdev]

95. I too have dealt with these issues firsthand

I worked for some time helping people get political asylum in this country, many of whom were victims of sexual exploitation and/or slavery.

You only need to see a human being with a brand burned into his skin by his "owner" once to be permanently and irrevocably enraged.

I am seriously feeling actual chills in my arms and legs just trying to wrap my mind around the fact that people here, of all places, are arguing for the other side. It's like you think you know someone really well, and suddenly find out that you don't know them at all.

[paulsby]

100. imo, it comes down to this (and it's common amongst the left and the right).

the more ideological and "religious" a person is about their political convictions, the more obvious it is

if a story fits the "preferred metanarrative", then it is accepted with little to no skepticism. the perfect example of this was the duke rape case. one does not have to be a rape investigator (although it helps) to see the story the "victim" was selling just smelled. and so did nifong. the "suspects' went out of their way to cooperate, provide alibis, volunteering for DNA testing. their frigging ATTORNEY claimed outright that none of thei DNA would be found on the victim. defense attorneys don't make statements like that unless they know their client is innocent.

but it fit the metanarrative. single mother black female working class is raped by rich, white , privileged, southern, jocks.

in that case, the victim is going to get NO scrutiny, and the suspects are automatically guilty.

ACORN is a frequent target of the right. thus, the whole "enemy of my enemy" thang alone makes them sympathetic. plus, they do good work (not in this case, though) in regards to empowering people of lesser means and helping these communities help themselves.

so, they are the VICTIMS here. because to paint ACORN (or even its employees) as the "bad" and the intrepid rightwing investigators as "the good" just slaughters the metanarrative.

because of my career, i have a high degree of skepticism. nature of the job. but this video ... well... res ipsa loquitor

[notesdev]

101. Yes I have been seeing that too, not just on this but on a whole host of issues

a total rejection of fact and healthy skepticism in favor of the party line, no matter how absurd, unjust, or unsupportable. I used to think that it was only Republicans who did that; apparently I was very wrong.

I get regularly piled-on when I point out that the change of party control in our government has not changed the fact of corporate control, for example.

People need to understand that acceptance of lawlessness exposes everyone to Darwinian savagery and ruthlessness, and that those who are willing to sacrifice their principles for politics truly have no principles.

If this party cannot, without reservation, rise to the defense of the innocent and helpless, it loses its core reason for existence.

[paulsby]

102. bingo

"a total rejection of fact and healthy skepticism in favor of the party line, no matter how absurd, unjust, or unsupportable. I used to think that it was only Republicans who did that; apparently I was very wrong."

and this is what's so absurd. even the people who decry the two party system just JUMP into these roles.

that's because , despite what some people thing, people are people. republicans and democrats alike. with the same basic symptoms.

i'm farther to the right than anybody who calls themself a progressive, fwiw, so i find the extremes interesting.

i have repub friends and dem friends, and i see the same basic syndrome that we are talking about here.

[Hannah Bell]

76. your charge = post 27. link one before post 27.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6516889&mesg_id=6519261

[Wizard777]

54. Yeah they violated Maryland laws Concerning surveillance and conspiracy to commit -

human trafficking of minors. I'm sorry but you simply cannot commit a crime or conspire to commit a crime to gain evidence of crimes by others. They have to prove the Conspiracy by the "pimp" and "prostitute" before they go after anyone at Acorn for being a co-conspirator. Conspiracies are very difficult to prove. As long as no one was dumb enough to video tape confessions and planning sessions for the crime and then posted them to Youtube. These people have nothing to worry about. Oh yeah, that's right. Well there's no entrapment issues with 13 counts of conspiracy to commit human trafficking of a minor.

Now about Acorn offering advice on how to pay taxes on their illegal income. That could be a problem if the IRS didn't require people to pay taxes on their illegal income. BUT THEY DO! So the people in Maryland that aren't saying, Remember Linda Tripp are saying, remember Al Capone.

[Barack_America]

11. IMO, ACORN = great idea, horrible implementation.

Although, granted, my personal experiences with the organization have been limited (competing voter registration drives). But what I have seen I haven't been impressed with.

[Luminous Animal]

42. There is no such thing as competing registration drives.

Any person who registers voters is obligated to register any voter of any party.

[Barack_America]

50. Um, no.

ACORN negotiated with the city to give their workers access to areas that campaign volunteers were prohibited from. ACORN workers tried to steal completed registrations from our boxes to add to their tally, considering they were paid per registration.

[wroberts189]

13. pubs do not like Acorn ..pubs hate democracy. nt

[kelly1mm]

15. Agree with your two statements but what does this have to do with the OP?

Did you watch the video? Did you see the Acorn employees tell them that they could claim the underage El Salvadoran children who would be working as prostitutes as tax deductions "especially if they are under 16"? These are two bad apples. But we should not in any way defend them.

[wroberts189]

16. No I did not and stand corrected. I have just seen a lot of pub slander at Acorn. nt

[paulsby]

20. which is relevant how?

i mean seriously. this is not about pubs. fwiw, the girl who spearheaded this sting is a 20 yr old college student. imo, she gets a gold star for investigative journalism.

what this ACORN woman did wasn't democracy. it was an attempt to facilitate numerous high grade felonies.

she's perfectly ok with a woman engaging in the business of importing 15 yr old prostitutes to sell to men and helps her strategize how to get TAX BENEFITS for doing this by filing fraudulent documents?

seriously.

this thread is frigging amazing

thank god that some here are calling it like it is - a disgusting example of criminally corrupt fuckupedness

[KittyWampus]

36. talking about relevance, you have no knowledge of how this local office is run but make shit up

about it anyway.

Just because this person did X doesn't mean the local office does Y.

[paulsby]

52. thank you for proving my point nt

[Hugabear]

21. This was a sting operation aimed at discrediting ACORN, and nothing more.

Yes, the workers involved should be fired. However, let's not lose sight of what's going on here, a coordinated right-wing effort to discredit and smear ACORN. They have had ACORN squarely in their sights since the 2008 election, their goal is to bring it down. This is just a small part of that operation, and who knows how many workers they had to visit in order to find these two?

[dysfunctional press]

24. could the acorn woman who was fired have been in on it...?

as noted with the fraudulent voter registrations- sometimes it works best to get your people on the inside to do the damage.

[Ghost in the Machine]

28. Has she made a statement yet? As I was reading this (can't watch videos, I'm on dialup)..

.. I was wondering whether the ACORN woman was just going along with them, in a very cool manner, so she could get more information on them to turn them in? It's just a thought, but I could see myself doing that... Me:"Oh, child prostitutes huh? Well hell, claim them as dependants... here fill these papers out for me so we can get started here. I'll need to make a copy of your drivers license, too..."..

[LisaL]

31. You really should just watch the video.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. Not that I've heard, but keep your fingers crossed. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

44. that's a regular intelligence services tactic, in fact.

[kelly1mm]

30. Three other offices according to ACORN press release. I am surprised

it only took 4 trips to find this type of crap. And I am surprised that ACORN would point to this factoid as something of a defense.

[Luminous Animal]

41. It is a defense. The "sting" operation stopped once they found

one incidence they needed to smear the entire organization. If those who conducted this sting was honest about exposing widespread corruption within Acorn, they would have continued the operation until they found more. But no, they stopped when they found only one because they were sure than one and only one was enough to damn the entire organization.

I could go on the street now and ask, "Do you hate Barack Obama", and when the first three people would say, "No, I don't". But the 4th would say yes and then I could say, in all truthiness, that 3 out of 4 people do not hate Obama.

[Wizard777]

55. Yes they did continue. They got a DC office too.

So these people are engaged in a continuing criminal enterprise in multiple jurisdictions. I haven't checked DC Statutes yet. But it's probably a crime to conspire to commit human trafficking of minors in DC too. I know it is in Maryland. Now that we've pointed this out. Maryland republicans don't want to talk about this anymore. I guess they don't want to see that cute lil white girl go to jail for 25 years and possibly even have to register as a sex offender when she gets out.

[kelly1mm]

72. As is now coming out they got the ACORN office in DC also

but according to your logic if 1 out of 4 ACORN offices help people who are setting up child prostitution rings avoid taxes and even claim them as dependants further diminishing tax receipts that is a good thing because 75% of the offices would not. Look, this was a sting/set up. I agree it was politically motivated. ACORN fell right into it and deserves the crap they are getting.

[DeadEyeDyck]

33. I saw a little bit of this but turned it off since

it looked like blantant racism and intrapment. Would those ladies have thought up those ideas on their own? Most of us want to be polite and accomodating to whoever we meet. They were setup.

And the hooker and pimp were white. Isn't that intimadation?

[LisaL]

34. Isn't what intimidation? Being white?

[DeadEyeDyck]

37. well I was thinking that they were trying to appear

as high class hookers. You knowm like the hookers that go after movie starrs and politicians. Maybe that made them look a little better than a street hooker and intimadated the lady.


Okay, I just don't know. But she was set up. That is a fact!

[kelly1mm]

35. I hope you are kidding???? and it is "entrapment" nt

[DeadEyeDyck]

38. no, not kidding

she was trapped into the situation. It is obvious.

[kelly1mm]

73. It was a sting / set up an politically motivated but not the legal

definition of entrapment. These ACORN workers (and the ones in the DC office as well) were WRONG and if you defend them then I believe you are wrong as well. They deserve no defense. You can and should attack the organization that set this up (brietbart sp?) as politically motivated hacks but ACORN workers fell for it. It is like a contractor bribing a politician in a sting to get a contract. Both can be attacked but I assume you would not defend the politician that took the money? Maybe if he/she were a Democrat though?

[yawnmaster]

75. If we sweep this under the carpet, we are no better they they are.

If ACORN needs to be cleaned up, then it needs to be cleaned up.
And that isn't going to happen by making excuses for them or by deflecting blame.

At the very least, I would hope that ACORN sets up an internal investigation and takes necessary action (better training, etc.)

[kelly1mm]

80. I think we agree, did you read my entire post? I certainly am not making

excuses for ACORN.

[yawnmaster]

84. we do agree...I was supporting your statement.

I know most responses here are opposing, but that one wasn't :)

[Wizard777]

59. Only against the Acorn workers. Not against the "Pimp" and "Prostitute."

The video can be used as evidence of illegal surveillance and 13 counts of conspiracy to engage in human trafficking of a minor.

Definition of conspiracy - A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the intent of promoting or facilitating its commission he:

1.agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or
2.agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime

(a) Prohibited.- A person may not knowingly:
(1) engage in prostitution or assignation by any means;
(2) keep, set up, occupy, maintain, or operate a building, structure, or conveyance for prostitution or assignation;



They were conspiring to set up and keep a house of child prostitution. That's illegal under Maryland law.

[yawnmaster]

60. except that they had no intent to promote or facilitate the crime. eom

[Wizard777]

78. Sure they did! It's right there on the tape.

They were Promoting(advancing) AND Facilitating(making easier)the crime. Now if they had simply stopped at trying to obtain a building to set up and operate the child prostitution out of. they might have a leg to stand on. But they were also seeking legal and tax advice on the operation advancing the conspiracy to operate a house of child prostitution again and also facilitating it. In Maryland Conspiracy covers crimes in their planning stage or when they is not a viable attempt charge. Open and shut conspiracy to operate a house of child prostitution.

[yawnmaster]

79. good luck with that...

clearly no intent to facilitate the crime as it is clearly a sting operation.

[Wizard777]

81. Facilitate simply mean to make easier. Besides they are not Cops. Even if they were.

There are no law enforcement exemptions written into COMAR. Your confusing the intent of the tape and the intent in the tape. Even the intent of the tape is criminal. It's an illegal surveillance.

[notesdev]

90. I can't believe what I'm seeing

Are you a Democrat for real?

Maybe there's some newfangled definition out there that I'm not aware of, but when I joined the party 20 years ago there was no one - NO ONE - who would even begin to defend people who knowingly acted to assist the international sex trafficking and slavery trade. And with minors, too!

Wow. Just wow.

What an amazing demonstration of how some have thrown all principles of justice and decency out the window for political advantage. Underage Salvadorean girls, under the bus you go, because gosh darnit this might hurt the Democrats if anyone stands up for them.

Disgusting. Revolting! I haven't a word to describe the full extent of my revulsion.

[Wizard777]

103. No what I'm saying is that I believe actionable crimes were committed.

That charges should be pursued. But In order to pursue any charges against the acorn employees that offered assistance on this as secondary conspirators. We're also going to have to go after the Primary conspirators. That's O'Keefe and Giles. I'm not trying to defend anyone in this. I'm pretty much insisting on Prosecution. But in doing that we cannot ignore or even defend the primary conspirators, O'Keefe and Giles, of a child prostitution ring. O'Keefe and Giles started the child prostitution ball rolling. We cannot say they weren't really trying to operate a real child prostitution ring. But the Acorn workers were trying advise a real child prostitution ring. Can't do it. Either both parties were talking their ass in terms of make believe or both parties were conspiring to operate a child prostitution ring.

Maryland has Inchoate Crime laws like conspiracy (planning) and attempt (trying.) Whether or not the planning of the crime would have actually resulted in the crime being committed is irrelevant to a conspiracy charge. Here in Maryland it is not only illegal to commit a crime. It is also illegal to try (attempt) to commit a crime. It is also Illegal to plan (conspiracy)to commit a crime. When I look at those tapes. I see people planning to operate a house of child prostitution. In Maryland that is an inchoate crime by it's self. Any ulterior motives for committing that crime is irrelevant. The crime has been committed. I would absolutely hate to any kind of precedent set where in some instances it's absolutely okay to plan to set up a house of child prostitution. I also don't want law enforcement to have to ferret out real human traffickers from college pranksters. Especially when Maryland law says a person may not participate in prostitution "by any mean." I think that includes not even as a political gotcha game. In Maryland I would like to see the legal line on child sexual exploitation set at DON'T EVEN THINK IT! DON'T EVEN TRY TO PRETEND!

Now before you say I'm heartless and being too tough on the good guys representing plans to engage in the human trafficking of minors. :wtf: How anyone attaches the words good guys to presentations of the human trafficking of minors is beyond me. But I digress. Had these two simply presented a plan for a house of prostitution for adult sex workers. Well maybe we could overlook that. They still inflict great political damage. But when they present a plan to operate a house of child prostitution. NOW YOU HAVE OUR FULL ATTENTION. We really don't care what kind of game you were playing with some very real game pieces. When it comes to child protection, WE DON'T PLAY! The only people I want to defend in this is the children from crimes against them even in their planning (conspiracy) stage.

[Swamp Rat]

39. ACORN is a communist plot to suck dry our precious bodily fluids.

:hide:

[Raine]

45. "performance artist"

:rofl: imaginative way of putting it.

[NuttyFluffers]

49. so ACORN responded and has upheld its strict standards. great! anything else?

if anything this little "sting" should prove how much more credible ACORN is about handling stuff; far more than the republicans who criticize them.

[The Night Owl]

57. This scandal will easily bring down ACORN. {EOM}

[yawnmaster]

61. oh oh, looks like they didn't stop after only one.

I don't know if we've heard the end of this.
think they have more?

[Beaverhausen]

62. link?

[yawnmaster]

65. This site is the original source of the entire scandal...

so don't get on me for linking to this guy's site.
http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/11/washington-dc-acorn-video-child-prostitution-investigation/

[Beaverhausen]

68. I notice this guy won't talk to reporters

what has he got to hide?
*****************************
http://biggovernment.com/author/jokeefe/

On Why I Don’t Return Phone Calls from an Intrepid CNN Producer
by James O'Keefe

As read on “The Rush Limbaugh Show”:

So far CNN has only reported on the breaking story on blatant ACORN CORRUPTION from angles that attempt to extricate the government funded “community organizing” enterprise from the extreme crime we caught on videotape.

First CNN pushed the false ACORN line that “his film crew tried to pull this sham at other offices and failed.”

To set that record straight please check the Washington D.C. tape we dropped today at BigGovernment.com, which is also being aired on your cable news competitor with curiously higher ratings.

Now that ACORN lied to you, Jonathan Klein, what are you going to do?

Here’s what I have noticed from your coverage: You brought in the damage control crowd to FRAME the story. Before even airing our damning Baltimore video. You know your audience would turn on ACORN if you showed them the evidence. So instead you put your competitors in journalism in the crosshairs instead of airing a blockbuster report making massive waves elsewhere.

You even trotted out shameless Clinton era apologist Joe Conason to challenge the ETHICS of our expose. Unreal.

What about the ethics of those at ACORN caught on tape trying to help create a brothel featuring illegal immigrant age range 13-15 from El Salvador? (more

[yawnmaster]

71. I read that and its still not really clear why he won't talk to CNN...

I think I'm seeing that he doesn't like how CNN has handled the story, so he won't talk with them.
but that is just a guess.

[cherokeeprogressive]

97. Maybe he's starting to recieve threats and is starting to fear for his safety. n/t

[Wizard777]

106. I think Ms. "Kenya" makes it perfectly clear this came straight out of the heart of the GOP.

This wasn't really an attack on Acorn. It was gouge at Obama. Our Kenyan President. :eyes:

[Wizard777]

105. CNN is complying with Maryland law. It is a crime to reveal the contents of an illegal wiretap.

The second someone walks into the Baltimore SAO to file a complaint on this. They will be in Baltimore Central Booking. The good news is that there have major improvements to Central Booking. It no longer takes them three days to find and release you after your bail has been posted.

[jeffrey_X]

74. LMFAO...this was the lead story on Hannity last night.

kill me now.

[mockmonkey]

87. Question

What do the whores at Fox News put on their tax forms? :shrug:

[Wizard777]

104. How many actors and actresses represent themselves a whore selling their bodies?

If they weren't. They wouldn't be able to LEGALLY write off that boob job as a business expense.