The White House has no legal standing to deny access

[Jackpine Radical]

to the RNC emails. None. Their very existence is at least prima facie evidence of a crime. And, if Congress ever gets their hands on them, whatever might be in them is fair game. Like when the cop stops you and smells pot smke in your car. He then has probable cause for a search, and if he finds your mother-in-law's dead body in the trunk, the search was legal & you have no grounds whatsoever to try to exclude the evidence because of a lack of search warrant or some such grounds.

In other words, if Congress ever gets those emails, a whole lot more is gonna blow up than just the USA scandal. The lid could come off containers whose existence we don't even suspect at this point. THAT is why they're going to do everything--EVERYTHING--imaginable, legal or not, to keep Waxman's grubby little fingers off the emails.

[H2O Man]

1. I agree.

I think this is similar to when the nation found out that President Nixon had a system for taping conversations in the Oval Office. But Nixon had grounds to try to protect some of the tapes' contents from being released. I don't see any grounds for the White House to claim any such right here.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. What About The Magic War Powers?

Can't The Chimperor use his unlimited magic war powers, which Congress declined to check, to keep the emails safe?

[DeSwiss]

10. I posted something about this same question...

....earlier on another thread. The Hatch Act prohibits the use of government resources (which includes employees) from conducting political activities on government time. I can think of no logical reason to believe that all those RNC computers and emails were generated while on break or after normal working hours. Given this, that is justification of probable cause that a crime may been committed and therefore makes those materials subject to subpoena.

As for the question of privilege, in US vs Nixon, a unanimous Supreme Court ruled that there is no such thing as "absolute executive privilege." This what they said:

"To read the Article II powers of the President as providing an absolute privilege as against a subpoena essential to enforcement of criminal statutes on no more than a generalized claim of the public interest in confidentiality of nonmilitary and non-diplomatic discussions would upset the constitutional balance of 'a workable government' and gravely impair the role of the courts under Article III.

"Neither the doctrine of separation of powers, nor the need for confidentiality of high-level communications, without more, can sustain an absolute, unqualified Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances. The President's need for complete candor and objectivity from advisers calls for great deference from the courts. However, when the privilege depends solely on the broad, undifferentiated claim of public interest in the confidentiality of such conversations, a confrontation with other values arises."

Given that the very nature of these mails are a part of a political party's activities, there is no way there can be a claim of executive privilege since political party activity has nothing to do with the conduct and administration of national security issues. And if they make this claim, then they not only are in violation of the Presidential Papers Act, but no doubt a number of national security laws. They're screwed whichever way they turn..... IMHO

~DeSwiss

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Great Post - Thanks! n/t

[Usrename]

20. Yep, they are legally screwn.

The Presidential Papers Act: http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title44/title44.html

also includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of his staff.

So either way they turn, they are completely boxed in.

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Are you sure Dear Leader didn't make a Signing Statement stating

he doesn't have to do anything Congress wants him to do because he is DEAR LEADER?!

I want to know why those servers haven't been confiscated??!!! WHY haven't they been?

[B Calm]

4. I think they are hiding the true facts of what happened on 9-11

[Jackpine Radical]

5. You're not alone in that.

It boggles the mind to think what might be in there.

[seemslikeadream]

6. One can only dream

http://www.dreamingaloud.com.nyud.net:8090/Gallerys/images/BraveWorld.jpg

[Raksha]

9. I think you're right. n/t

[cyberpj]

7. They'll have a "terrorist" blow up machines before they hand them over. They're better off going

down for obstruction than for what we'd find on those machines.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Exactly.

Giving up the emails is tantamount to signing their own death warrants. Pretty much literally--I have no doubt there are capital crimes hidden in there.

[seemunkee]

11. How can he claim executive privelege on a private organizations computers?

Its between Congress and the RNC, the White House shouldn't even come into play here.

[Hangingon]

14. Interesting question

The President is the head of his party but the Chairman of the National Committee (of either party) would control the records of the party. This is a tricky matter. What happens now will come bback on the other parties later. It also has implications for the House and Sentae.

[seemunkee]

15. Being the head of the party

Is not a government function.

[Hangingon]

16. I can't imagine a President in my life time who would

give up the political role. I can't imagine one in the future. Sorry if they are paid by the government as White House Staff. Been that way for a long time and I don't think it will change.

[Gabi Hayes]

17. when you can explain what they tried to do to Gore about his phone calls

you can make us believe you have the faintest clue....

thanks for your time

[Jim Sagle]

25. Since WHEN does a "president" use EXECUTIVE PRIVELEGE to hide

political misdeeds?

Since we stopped electing "presidents" and started letting a treasonous Supreme Court appoint them, THAT'S when.

[annabanana]

21. Just by trying to claim executive priviledge... he's admitting that a crime happened!

Odd sort of box he's gotten himself into, isn't it?

[hang a left]

13. They probably don't have legal standing at all.

They will fight and scream and some of these things will be heard by the USSC. If and that is an iffy if, they do order the WH to turn them over, what's to keep them from defying the court. Or having new legislation enacted. Remember Hamdan VS US?

[Blackhatjack]

18. Jackpine You Hit This One Right Out Of The Park!!! My Thoughts Exactly!

There is every reason in the world for Congress to pursue these emails in their performance of oversight. There have already been enough 'admissions' by the characters being investigated to establish Congress' need to examine these emails. And there is no basis whatsoever for claiming Executive Privilege over these emails on the RNC server system UNLESS they were all addressed to George W. Bush, President. Highly unlikely.

I agree that there is going to be a desperate fight over these emails, likely because of the evidence of criminal activity unrelated to the US Attorney firing scandal. When criminals think they are speaking free of surveillance, they often mention other matters involving criminal activity. You can imagine Karl and the gang engaged in just this kind of interaction because they thought technology would protect them.

[DemReadingDU]

19. Yep technology is a great tool

They were using technology to outsmart us, but now it is coming back to bite them in the butt!

:)

[solara]

22. Thank you for posting this! I was afraid they would claim

executive privilege and get away with it. It enrages me that BushCo is still able to slink off into the shadows each time they commit a crime, so I fervently hope that this email controversy will be the final stop gap.

Something has GOT to give, dammit, and in such a huge way that there can no longer be ANY doubt whatsoever that Impeachment is absolutely necessary.


:kick: & rec
...

INVESTIGATE IMPEACH INDICT IMPRECATE INCARCERATE :banghead:

[unblock]

23. one thing scares me about congress investigating this:

congress does NOT investigate in order to uncover and prosecute crimes. that might happen to be a by-product, but it's not the official or even the unofficial mission.

officially, congress investigates so that it might craft better legislation., by shutting down a program, making something illegal, creating a new bureaucracy, etc.

unofficially, congress (often) investigates so as to score political points.


my own bottom line is that i'd rather have trustworthy prosecutors investigating all this madness. then again, this raises the question -- who exactly ARE the trustworthy prosecutors these days???

[C_U_L8R]

26. sounds like a job for a special prosecutor

Oh Mr Fitzgerald !!!!!!!

[Joanne98]

24. YAYYYYYYY!!

[texpatriot2004]

27. I agree that they have no legal standing. I wonder if Congress

doesn't already have some of the email?

[Toots]

28. What e-mails?

You actually believe there are any e-mails left? Those hard drives have been dismantled and every inch of any recording tape has been obliterated. E-mails, what e-mails? We have no stinking e-mails....
Deal with it.