"What about Hip Hop?" is a rubbish argument

[leftist.]

Because of Imus, it's all the boys on the radio have been talking about today - attacking Hip Hop because it demeans and degrades women and uses the "n" word. But it's a poor comparison and here's why. When you talk about Hip Hop you are talking about something you have to purchase (i.e. a CD). When it gets into the "public airwaves" discussion it actually starts to work *against* the person because hip hop has been doing FOR YEARS what CBS is only *JUST NOW* asking people to do - self "censor".

Case in point - you wouldn't hear "nappy headed ho's" in a hip hop song on the *radio* because it's been edited out.

Just wanted to say that because it's been bothering me all day and now I'm starting to see people at DU use this argument.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. Empathy and Apathy ,thats the difference.

[soothsayer]

2. I think I'm against censoring that out of songs. Are we the taliban now?

[leftist.]

6. I think it's just about being on the "public airwaves"

That's all we are talking about here, the public airwaves. Just because we don't let a guy go on the public airwaves and say "The n*ggers are coming! RUN!" doesn't make us Taliban. That's my opinion anyway.

[Casper Alabaster]

43. Wow. Yeah, the OP is a big bad

TalibaNazi Censor! He'll probably chop off your fingers just for typing that, just like they do in all free societies!
Wow.B-)

[NormanYorkstein]

64. WTF? If I don't want slurs on MY public airwaves, I'm a Taliban?

Are you being sarcastic?

[shadowknows69]

3. Not all hip hop is offensive

there are some very good writers out there and many socially active artists.

[LifeDuringWartime]

54. thank you!

there is a ton of great stuff out there. In recent years jazz has been strongly influenced by it.

[Karenina]

71. Ever wonder why they're so obscure?

Just asking.

[shadowknows69]

77. cause sex and violence sells

always been the way an i suspect it always will. enough of us are still slaves to our darker angels.

[Karenina]

78. AND those offering an alternative

are COMPLETELY SHUT OUT!

[shadowknows69]

80. I like it how Kayne West puts it in "Jesus Walks"

"I can rap about guns, drugs, sex, lies and videotapes but if I talk about God my records won't get played. Huh?"

[Karenina]

84. A bit more truth-telling from A.D.

Kayne somehow got through. Anthony not. For obvious reasons.

I'll tell you how to act, realize
You're dwelling in a big house of lies
So don't come around here, speaking without fear
Trying to see the trueside
cause they'll skin your black hide
And STOP promotion, on your notion
Corruption around here flows strong like an ocean
And all of us flunkies give it love and devotion
You gonna make me a rich man one day and
I'll collect the duckets while you play

Go be a superstar

[ClassWarrior]

4. It's a rubbish argument because it lets the bigots off the hook.

Hate speech is ugly, no matter who uses it. No matter if it's in a radio show, a hip hop song, a country song, or a rock song. But that's not the point of the radical RWers who bring this up now. Their point is to defend bigots.

NGU.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Simply look at WHO is saying "what about hip hop?"

Mostly people trying to deflect the
conversation AWAY from right wing
commentators and bigots

[orpupilofnature57]

11. Exactly! The Duke incident was the first thing on their lips ,and

that doesn't even apply.Or like 'I'm an ass' , saying "nappy headed was invented by Black men".

[stanwyck]

7. Thank you

I've been relentlessly counter-attacking this senseless argument for days. Even here at DU, unfortunately. Imus had a syndicated television and radio show. It's a ludicrous comparison.
And, while we're at it, I'm tired of people trying to let him off because he gives money to charity and helps people. That's great that he does. But isn't that exactly what he should do?
And it doesn't give him a free pass on the hate-speech. He doesn't get to checkbook his way out of being called out of his bigotry.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Agreed. See sig line.

[southpaw]

9. My hope is that the Imus incident

signals a new attitude toward racist/sexist/bigoted language in all formats. I do not advocate censoring music or comedy, but if the public finally says 'ENOUGH' and stops patronizing those who make a living off hate speech... well, that ain't censorship.

[orpupilofnature57]

12. A world without Rust Limpbogg ,just think.

[Atman]

10. It's a fake arguement all the way around

The white guys in the board room have been looking for an "out" to stop signing these damned nappy-headed rappers from polluting the culture...oh wait...hang on...

I just got some fresh oxygen. The white guys in the boardroom care only about money. Imus obviously wasn't making enough for them to justify his salary + scandal. Period.

.

[leftist.]

14. Good post, thanks! Hannity's made his entire show about it today.

I listened on the way home and it was all about "Well look at what the darkies are doing on the radio" (sarcasm is mine, he said it another way of course) and I was just like oh jebus please stop. Then I get home and see some on DU using that same argument, it just bugged me.

[orpupilofnature57]

17. WHAAA?

[Atman]

27. It appears neither of us understands what the other is saying.

At least, I'm not sure I get you. No :sarcasm: icon, so I guess you were serious.

My point is this; Imus's words, while grossly offensive, were not the most offensive lines of crap spewed by the right-wing media this week. But the right-wing media is in a very bad PR position. One more rich white guy coming out to codify the view of righties as racists just wasn't going to stand. Unless, of course, Imus made NBC boatloads of money, which he didn't.

Righteous indignation is always easy when it doesn't cost you anything.


.

[leftist.]

Hey Atman

I read your original message as: "It really was all about money and if Imus was pulling a lot in for them he wouldn't have been fired". I agree and still think it was a good post. Everything else I wrote was just thrown in cause I felt chatty :) Thanks for the followup!

[orpupilofnature57]

15. Plus 'I'm an ass' shit on Shrub too much ,but fuck the MSM hag.

Smug piece of shit was a bore .

[MasonJar]

13. I am sorry to disagree with a fellow DUer, but I must. I am a teacher

of juniors and seniors in high school. The rap music that they listen to non-stop and to the exclusion of good music is very harmful as it makes these young minds adopt rude and belligerent attitudes. These rappers, some of whom not only herald gangs but also still belong to them, are often not appropriate role models for teens.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. I am a retired teacher.

And kids have always listened to music that adults don't like. Sometimes because adults don't like it.

If you don't like rap, then don't listen to it.

It's not rocket science.

[mzmolly]

50. As a teacher I'm certain you realize that music and television have an influence on our culture?

If I don't like the music kids listen to, not only will I turn it off, I'll talk about why I don't like it.

[leftist.]

18. Thanks for the post, I only disagree with ...

I only disagree with you on who is in charge. To me, your problem is one left to the parents. Imus's issue was about something stupid that he said on the public airwaves. With Hip Hop, stupid things like "nappy headed ho's" won't go out over the PUBLIC airwaves because it's been edited out and has been for years. That's my only point. Thanks again for the reply :)

[orpupilofnature57]

19. Subjective at least!! Did you listen to the Beatles??

http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~pirli/beatles/jesus.html

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Well I certainly didn't listen to the Beatles.

When I was a teacher, those damn kids listened to the Beatles to the exclusion of good music. It made young minds adopt rude and belligerent attitudes, and encouraged the boys to grow their hair to a most disagreeable length.

[orpupilofnature57]

30. K&R!!! Wish I had ya.

[mzmolly]

51. Would you belittle this discussion if racist lyrics were the topic du jour?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

44. That's not the point...

Of course hate speech is destructive, no matter where it's used. In rap music, in country music, in rock music, or wherever. But why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about this now? Maybe because some people want us to blame the victims and take the heat off the bigots?

NGU.

[gollygee]

45. That was said at one time about Elvis Presley

actually it's been said about all of Rock and Roll. Before that it was Jazz, and before that Ragtime.

[BlueManDude]

20. When 50 Cent hosts a talk show visited by the most influential and powerful folks in the country

then we'll have a valid comparison. Otherwise this is a straw man (like the whole "Who's Sharpton to judge?" malarky) designed to excuse Imus.

In addition the notion that the content of rap music is a verboten and undiscussed issue is bullshit. Charlton Heston was talking about this 15 years ago.

[leftist.]

23. Great post, thanks BlueManDude

:) Good post, thanks for adding ... and good point about Heston too. Hell, 2 Live Crew was getting yelled at almost 30 years ago now.

[minkyboodle]

31. thank you

Its such an obvious point. I don't understand why its so
hard to get some to understand.

[BlueManDude]

48. because they don't want to

It suits their agenda to shift the focus to Sharpton's shady history and vulagar rap lyrics - but neither one has anything to do with Don Imus and his racism.

[juno jones]

21. For those classic rock fans who would point out how sexist hip hop is

I have four words for you:

"Whang Dang Sweet Poontang":

What about the 'Mudshark' incident?

Robert Plant sings about sex with teenage groupies in 'Sick Again'.

Steven Tyler has to get at least one fellatio reference into every album, and we know he's a freaking macho horndog.

Even gay Freddie Mercury gets in on the act with 'Fat-Bottomed Girls'...How many of you still have your nude bicycle race poster?

David Lee 'Just a Gigolo' Roth made a career of being a sexist pig.

Rock and Roll is inherently 'politically incorrect'. I love it, don't get me wrong, they'll have to pry my zep albums from my dead, cold hands, but just because the comments are made as innuendos, don't fool yourself into thinking the sexism isn't there or that women don't notice it. And it isn't just sexism. Consider the irony of Pat Benatar releasing "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" and "Hell Is For Children" back to back. Take a look again at that Rush '2112' album. The whole first side is a soulful tribute to Neal Peart's objectivist libertarian heroine, Ayn Rand.
Just take the Lyric Listening challenge before you start badmouthing rap music. Some rap uses 'dirty words' but really is no more egregious than any other form of Rock-n-Roll. There is intelligent rap out there too, but you are unlikely to have the MSM expose you to those groups.

[Neecy]

22. It's really not a valid argument

You know, another gay person can refer to me as a dyke and I'd be cool with it because there's no malice involved.

An old white guy who has a history of hate speech calls me a dyke and I'm a little pissed, eh?

When you take from someone's culture in order to demean, degrade or offend them and then whimper that 'well, they do it too' it's just a weak cover, whether it's racism, misogyny or homophobia. It's also blaming the victim, and THAT really pisses me off.

[petronius]

26. Beyond that, I think it's invalid because the rap songs are referring to generic

'hos' or whatever - fictional characters within a work of art, basically - while Imus used a racist and sexist slur against a real group of women...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. It's a good rhyming word.

Thus, rappers have an obscenity endorsement on their poetic licenses.

Every other city we go...
Every other video...
No matter where I go..
I see the same groupie

Just doesn't work.

[MethuenProgressive]

24. Imus was the way to start serious discourse, and possible change

There's more ojectionable racist/sexist language in movies and on iPods than on Imus.
There was an entertainer, a young person of color, on MSNBC this morning who said "maybe this is a signal to clean up our own act," and I thought she made a good point.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. Quoting you: "We should prioritize our outrage."

Exactly. If Imus gets fired for three words, than a similar and proportional response should be directed towards the rest of the entertainment industry.

[orpupilofnature57]

40. Your right ,no one deserves a pass on misanthrope behavior.

[Robson]

46. Yeah Demeaning Hip Hop Trash 24/7 Is So Acceptable & A Great Ego Builder For Females

I see nothing but utter hypocracy from those who say what came out of Imus's mouth is hurtful for America, but the trash that emanates from the hip hop community demeaning females 24/7 is good for America. It's great for Viacom but it is not good for America. It is hate language of the first order. If we are going to be sensitized to every word and syllable from these entertainers then it must be applied to ALL entertainers.

We need true diversity in the media, meaning we need to see an ethnic cross section of America on TV across the board....including the pundits and every mouthpieces.

[mzmolly]

29. Bullshit, there are comparisons to be made IMO.

And in the opinion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Essense Magazine, Ebony Magazine and others >>> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=643353&mesg_id=643353

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. Too bad for them.

That's an opinion I can't respect.

[mzmolly]

57. Why not?

:shrug: You don't think that women should be offended if they are degraded to the sound of a snappy tune?

[stanwyck]

33. So, misogynistic rappers are our yardstick, now?

Sorry. You don't get to pick out a clearly vile segment of a culture and use that segment as the measuring tool. See? Those guys do bsd things! How childish. How absurd. Decent people don't pattern their behavior after a small band of thugs (and the vile rappers are only a subset of rap music).
Why do you believe the lowest common denominator should be culture's yardstick?
Imus doesn't get a pass because there are rappers who say worse than he did.
Imus has to make his own way and demonstrate his own values. And he did. That's why he's under attack by those of us who hold racists accountable, particularly when they're using their syndicated show to spread their venom.

[orpupilofnature57]

35. Exactly! one is a conscience expression ,the other is subtle impression.

Any ambiguous reasoning they need , they just pull it out of Kkkarl's ass.

[mzmolly]

49. Who said ANY of that?

Read my link and comment in the thread if you like.

[saltpoint]

52. Agree. Degrading, demeaning language directed at others is

vulgar and offensive no matter whose mouth it comes out of.

Imus was canned, so those who wanted him canned may celebrate if they wish, I understand.

But Imus is not the lone perpetrator here.

Not at all. If hard language which demeans women is bad from Imus' lips it's bad from anyone else's lips too.

[mzmolly]

56. Thanks Old Crusoe.

:hi:

[saltpoint]

58. Hi, mzmolly. There seem to be a few steps toward communication

that are ignored outright by people like George W. Bush. Imus is the guy in the news this week, but Imus is really small potatos next to the tsunami of racism Bush and his flunkies demonstrated when Hurricane Katrina smashed into the Gulf Coast and New Orleans.

Bush abandoned U.S. citizens who not coincidentally, were overwhelmingly Afro-American. They were struck by the storm from the Gulf of Mexico and ignored by the president from his ranch. When Don Imus' crude tongue eclipses the institutional and deliberate racism of George W. Bush, I object.

Many of us were not raised to use racist or sexist speech against others, and especially against innocent others or helpless others. When we hear it, we balk because we feel that an injustice is being served.

[mzmolly]

68. Indeed, and this is an opportunity to examine serious issues with

racism and sexism that permeate our society at evey level.

[leftist.]

63. In private, it's protected speech.

Imus is on the public airwaves calling blacks "nappy heads". Hip Hop is something I buy and listen to at my discretion. The argument that hip hop on the radio is demeaning (*the point of this thread*) is weak because hip hop on the radio is heavily edited. A CD that just has 74 minutes of the looped phrase "All women are filthy whores" that I purchased or that I choose to listen to privately is fine.

It's fine because "hard language" has context. Like this - I'm in my apartment right now and I'm thinking "man i fucking HATE Martin Luther King" and that's totally okay because it's my personal thoughts; but when I go to my job as a weather announcer tomorrow and slip up and call him "Martin Luther Coon King" on public airspace, I get fired and deservedly so.

[saltpoint]

65. Some, not all, hip hop lyrics demean women.

Those slang nouns are cast upon them as if, in one writer's phrase, women were "sexual appliances."

Any 6th grader understands the context of those slang terms immediately.

Those words are not censored in the studio and they go out into the ears of many people.

They are demeaning and degrading to women. You can't strike against women without also hurting men. We are intrinsically linked as people and when you put one down you put the other down as well.

Capitalism is a public exercise, even when it involves "private" property; Don Imus' program was an option, not a requirement.

Words which demean women aren't defendable.

[slackmaster]

38. I don't get MSNBC for free

I get it at home on cable TV, which I pay for, and via an Internet connection which I also pay for.

[wellst0nev0ter]

39. "B-But Black People Made Me Do It!"

morons :eyes:

[Rosemary2205]

91. Yep..... pathetic ain't it? nt

[ellacott]

41. This definately a rubbish argument

At first Imus said that he meant nothing hurtful about that word. He said he calls his wife the Green Ho. The media is trying to cover themselves because they never gave any coverage to the groups who have been campaigning against this type of music.

[Casper Alabaster]

42. I agree.

White folks can't shove off the failures of their society onto black folks forever.
How long do black folks have to carry this country? Damn!

[live love laugh]

47. MSNBC = Hip Hop? NOT. That's what make the argument pointless. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

53. I am 52 years old and watch TV and listen to the radio and have never heard...

...the term "Nappy headed, whore", used anywhere before in my life until Imus said it on live TV. I had to search Google to find out what "nappy headed" meant.

So how can Hip Hop have anything to do with what Imus said? I don't get the connection?

Don

[Marie26]

55. Of course it is

It's mostly just an attempt to distract & minimize, so it really doesn't need to make sense.

[HuffleClaw]

59. yet nobody is FORCED to listen to imus

so far as i know you can change the station.

[HuffleClaw]

60. yet nobody is FORCED to listen to imus

so far as i know you can change the station.

[SemperEadem]

94. that's non sequitur

the entities who owned the station have every right to control what goes on in their stations. Imus doesn't own a goddamn thing in that studio. He's using CBS's and MSNBC's equipment, not his own. He owns no license to broad/cablecast.

MSNBC and CBS are businesses and they need to make money. If GM, Proctor and Gamble, Staples, etc., decide that what he said will eventually impact their bottom line, then they are, rightly, going to distance themselves and the way they do that is to pull their ad money from MSNBC (because cable subscriptions don't pay for cable programming 100%--they gotta sell ad time)and CBS.

If the principle here was that Imus had a right to distribute/disseminate his speech, then all of these companies would have willingly taken the hit to make their point. That ain't the case. Imus can stand on his front porch all day long and say whatever he wishes and that is where his rights stop. He doesn't have a right to use a company's equipment to say whatever the fuck he wants and not incur repercussions.

MSNBC/CBS are not forced to keep him on their air, either. Now, if you want to use your life savings to quit your job to go sit in front of him for the rest of his days and listen to what he has to say, then I say put your money where your mouth is.

[FredScuttle]

61. The "rap" counterargument in a nutshell:

White guys bitching that they can't say "nigger" like that 50 Cent fella.

[leftist.]

62. Agreed, and nice post.

You have a Drama sig and a Benny Hill name. You're my new best friend :P

[bliss_eternal]

66. Of course...

...your counterargument "argument" gets so much mileage considering you had to say it here, all spelled out and in quotes no less. :eyes: Hmmmm, wonder why THAT'S necessary?

...Oh wait...what's this I found?

Felt so good writing it, you had to write it out twice apparently:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=651051#652289

How clever!

Good for you, exercising your free speech rights and all.

In the process of condemning a man for being insensitive, and using words that hurt, of course it makes perfect sense to write out a racial slur FULL FORM on a board where others probably wouldn't get the meaning if you abbreviated it as SO MANY others have been "sensitive enough" to do the last few days or so. But of course, free speech trumps all. As you have so aptly pointed out in the past.

Do tell, did it feel good? Does it tickle to write it all out like that?

:P

[FredScuttle]

67. Didn't feel one way about or the other

...because (wait for it)...I'm a nigger.

[bliss_eternal]

69. Keep in mind...

...that not all people that historically have been referred to, by use of that particular word agree with ANYONE using it in anyway, by anyone.

But having said all of that if you're good with referring to yourself with derogatory terminology--nothing more needs to be said here.

Nice to know you think so highly of yourself.
:( Good day, sir.

[FredScuttle]

88. Here's a hint...

If you ain't one, you don't get to use the term.

[bliss_eternal]

89. Guess what...?

I'm calling bullshit on that. No one is that word. You choose to identify with it, and that's on you. I have better things to do than to attempt to discuss this with someone that doesn't get it.

You're free to do what you like, of course. In time, it will bite you in the ass.

[wellst0nev0ter]

95. The Truth Hurts, Doesn't It

People don't realize that the reason a lot of black folks use that word is because (*shock!*) they are still niggers in the eyes of a lot of white folks. What even some decent white folks fail to understand is that black folks get to use the word "nigger"; white folks get to be president. Until the day that a mediocre black person gets to be president like our chimp in chief is the day that we are truly equal.

[cgrindley]

76. That's ridiculous

No one should be saying it. Period.

[rocktivity]

70. A total copout: They're complaining about Diddy and Snoop

because it would be too hypocritical for them to complain about Rush and Beck.

People who preach from glass pulpits shoudn't throw stones.

:eyes:
rocknation

[AngryOldDem]

72. Sorry, I see this as just one more apology for the hate

If it's tolerated, or excused, or apologized for in one segment of society, then that's how we get the Don Imuses of the world. Also, lyrics aside, the images that go with them are still there, and for the most part, they are extremely mysogynistic.

Unedited music is just as much out there as the edited. That is what permeates the culture and desensitizes people to the offensiveness of it. And seeing it as a constant theme in one segment of the population most definitely sends the message that it is acceptable in all segments of the population.

Hip-hop is in part to blame for this. Not wholly, but it must take its share.

[bliss_eternal]

75. Yep.

:)

[bread_and_roses]

96. What nonsense. Imus takes his cues from Hip Hop? I don't think so.

The reasons that Imus' hate speech differs from Hip Hop have been articulated by others in the thread. But it can't be said too many times that talking about a white man who can host some of the most powerful men in the world on a public airwaves show and Hip Hop artists as if there were parity in their power makes no sense.

[ellacott]

73. The Media is trying to cover it's butt

They're acting like Imus is a 3 year old who repeats everything that they hear. This is a 66 yr. old man who didn't have enough common sense or common decency to know that what he said went over the line. If he didn't use that word he would have used another set of words. Maybe he would have called them nappy headed pickaninnys. It was his intent that is at issue.

[Cha]

74. Thank you, leftist!

:toast:

[Rex]

79. Well now, should we go there? I am more than ready to. Since I've been

studying our modern 'American culture' for awhile now. So, good old white entertainment - shall we take a look at it? I'm sure it is far more morally pure than Hip Hop! Far more! As a white guy, I think it is time to go there. Let us examine mainstream, white culture and what entertains us on a daily basis!

I dare the M$M to look into 'my' culture. Take a long investigatory look and report the raw truth.

I won't hold my breath.

[Mz Pip]

81. It may be a rubbish argument

as far as lumping it with the Imus controversy, but I still think it's a discussion that needs to happen.

Some of that stuff is offensive beyond belief and kids emulate the language. Spend a bit of time in a high school. I worked in one for years and the language these kids used when they talked among themselves was appalling. Fights would break out because kids would talk trash to each other.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[bigwillq]

83. Then we need to go after

the music retail stores who sell the cds and the parents who have no idea what their kids are listening to if we are also going to go after the rappers.


All of those CDs have parental advisory stickers on them. The stores should not be selling those CDs to minors nor should the parents allow their kids to buy those cds.

[Mz Pip]

85. I suppose this gets into personal responsibility

Some of the responsibility has to be with the rappers who perform this crap. Yeah, teens suck it up and buy it, but people also listened to Imus and bought into his bullshit verbal vomit. At the end of the day, he was the one who paid the price. It wasn't the listeners who were held responsible; it was him.

There is plenty of hip hop out there that doesn't dehumanize women. Unfortunately, there seem to be plenty of teens, and maybe older, who suck up this stuff and imitate the language in their daily lives.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[bigwillq]

86. I am not saying that the rappers

don't need to take responsibility but I feel there's a funny line with artistic freedom and censorship.

Should the rappers tone it down? Maybe. But again, their unedited music is not being played on radio and the consumer is left to choose which music they buy and listen to. That should remain the same and the artists shouldn't be censored.


We need to go after everyone from the top down....music execs, producers, retail stores, the media, tv and radio.

Let's not make this one a rapper's issue or turn it against the man responsible (Imus) for this latest fiasco.

[Mz Pip]

87. The only quibble I have with this

is that although the lyrics are edited, everyone really knows what's being said. It's not like when they beep out f*ck on the Daily Show I don't know what they're saying.

And about the art thing. I've heard that excuse for all kinds of things = amd mpt just rap. But is it really art? Just because that's the excuse that's given doesn't make it so.

BUt I do agree that the producers have to take some responsibilty here, also. What may be good for the pocketbook may not be good for our culture. Perhaps the masses really loved to see Christians being eaten by lions or burned at the stake, but was it really good for the culture? I know that that is an extreme example of what a society might deem as acceptable but the point is that just because it works in the marketplace doesn't mean it's okay.

I disagree with the "let the marketplace decide" on this. I guess I've seen too many fights, too many hurt feelings and too much dumbing down of our culture to buy into that.

Watch the movie "Idiocracy." It's funny and silly, but there is a grain of truth in it. Popular dumb crap shouldn't be acceptible just because it's popular. The dumbing down of our society has given us Bush for President. We deserve better.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[bigwillq]

82. I can't stand that argument.

There is no comparison in the Imus case.

Imus is on national TV and radio UNEDITED and he should not be, nor should no one else, be allowed to utter that hate speak.

The radio stations that play rap music are playing edited versions and hardly ever do any of the real raunchy songs that are on some rappers CDs ever become a commercial hit.


To me that argument is bullshit.

[1932]

90. This is why 50 Cent doesn't have a morning radio show rapping with politicians.

50 Cent has his place, and it's not the place Imus had.

[Judi Lynn]

92. It surely is rubbish. It's embarrassing to even read it in any of its pathetic forms.

Now let's go get them rappers who got poor, kind, generous, god-fearing, charitable Don in trouble!

[Breeze54]

93. Deteriorata

Deteriorata

Go placidly amid the noise and waste and remember what a comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

Avoid quiet and passive persons unless you are in need of sleep.

Rotate your tires.

-- Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself and heed well their advice even though they be
turkeys; know what to k iss and when.

-- Consider that two wrongs never make a r ight but that three do.

Wherever possible, put people on hold.

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment and despite the changing fortunes of
time,

there is always a big fortune in computer maintenance.

-- Remember the Pueblo.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.

Know yourself; if you need help, call the FBI.

Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons closest to you.

That lemon on your left, for instance.

Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet.

Fall not in love therefore; it will stick to your face.

-- Gracefully surrender the things of youth, birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan;

and let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

-- Hire people with hooks.

-- For a good time, call 606-4311; ask for Ken.

Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese;

and reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot,

it could only be worse in Milwaukee.

-- You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here, and whether you can hear it or not,

the universe is laughing behind your back.

-- Therefore make peace with your God whatever you conceive Him to be:

Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin

-- With all its hopes, dreams, promises, & urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate.

-- Give up.

;)