We're reacting to the wrong thing about what say in Idiocyville

[lunatica]

We need to get over being shocked at what they're reaction to or how they're reacting. They don't care what Obama says. They don't care that he may be right or wrong or speaking in foreign tongues. They only want to destroy him and his Presidency. He could be green or lily white like they are. He's a Democrat and not a Republican and that's all that matters.

If it were only about racism then where's the virulent hatred towards Michael Steele or Bill Crosby or Will Smith and all the other big box office mega stars like Lawrence Fishburne, Jamie Foxx, Queen Latifa or comedians like Chris Rock and Whoopie Goldberg and Wanda Sykes? Oprah would never have made it to be one of the wealthiest women in the world.

The thing that motivates them is their burning desire to destroy everyone who isn't what they think they should be. They hate the party that believes government should be pro-choice, pro-marriage and pro-equality for all, even in health, education and opportunity. If you aren't in an intimate relationship with your gun and don't hate anyone who isn't straight, a true blue believer in Capitalism, white and a God Fearing Christian Fundamentalist then you're the minion of the devil himself, out to destroy them who they naturally believe to be the good and virtuous. Their preachers and life long teachers tell them so in church and in school. Land of the Brave and Home of the Free is about them only. The rest of us are transplanted slaves and wannabes wanting to take what they alone have accomplished.

Their hatred for Hillary is just as intense and just as insane. They didn't hate Condi at all. We never once heard a racial slur against her or against Colin Powell. The criticisms came form us, and not for what race they were, but for their enbling of George Bush and the Right wing policies. The idiocrats are just as profound in their crass ability to brazenly throw around sexist and misogynist insults against anyone who doesn't think like they do. But they love Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. The only difference is that they're conservative and Hillary isn't. At least not in their estimation.

If Obama were ragingly anti-abortion and pro-gun and were just like Bush he would be quite acceptable to them.

Racism isn't a fundamental thing. It's a result of deep seated fear of something that threatens their way of life. It's a learned reaction to profound insecurity which thinks their very existence is in jeopardi.

They fear being on the wrong side of the lynching party because they judge others by their own actions. It never occurs to them that they won't be lynched, because they can only think within the limitations of their own perceptions and intelligence.

[NC_Nurse]

1. Good points. I think the race issue just adds to the mix of paranoia and anger.

K&R

[Kerrytravelers]

2. Fishburne, Foxx, Latifa, Rock, Goldberg and Sykes aren't President.

And quite frankly, I don't think anyone you listed is high on a freeper list, especially not Rock, Goldberg and Sykes, as they are outspoken and liberal.

[lunatica]

4. Do you think they would hate Colin Powell like this if he was President

My point is they hate us. All of us who aren't like them. They won't shut up for a white Democratic President or any Democratic President. They want to destroy it, just like they wanted to destroy Clinton. It's not personal, just universal for them.

[Kerrytravelers]

5. I don't think he'd make it past the primary if he ran as a Republican.

[lunatica]

7. Can you expound on that?

I'm willing to listen to your arguments. I don't see the logic of what you're claiming. The small minority who were disrupting the town halls aren't self motivated. It's the large corporations and lobbying groups who are manipulating them. Those large groups would easily support Colin Powell if he ran as a Republican.

[Kerrytravelers]

8. I'm not making some huge, monumental argument, I made a brief observation. Let's not make more out

of my post than intended.

I'm not disagreeing with your OP at all. I made one comment on one portion. After seeing all the April Tea Party nonsense, and based on teabagger signage, race is an issue for them. Quite frankly, listing movie stars and Oprah isn't an argument against racism. Halle Berry won on Oscar. Is that an argument that there is full equity in regards to race in Hollywood? In 1963 Sydney Poitier won an Oscar for Lilies of the Field. The rw nutters hate him for his political activism.

Rice wasn't President. Neither was Powell. It's easy for the teabagging set to claim they love Rice when she isn't running for President. Look at the reaction when Powell backed Obama. They, led by their hero limbaugh, said Powell only supported Obama because he was Black. They don't "mind" Black people, so long as they do what they're told. But when they step out of line (in this case, Powell,) watch out. They'll say whatever they have to. If Powell ran as a Republican, he'd not make it out of the primaries.

The fact that their claim of Obama not being "American" has taken a significant hold among the teabagging says something. What about him wouldn't be American? Living outside the country for a period of time? That isn't unusual, many other elected officials have lived outside America. His religion? Hmmm... they tried that. I tell you one thing he is that no other President has been... Black. He had to give a major speech on race.

Is this stating that all Republicans are nothing but racists? No. Of course not. But the crazy base is sure clinging to that.

[lunatica]

10. They're being manipulated by the not so crazy lobbyists and corporations

Wouldn't you agree? Who manipulates the crazy Democratic base? Maybe there's something in this that shows a basic difference in the mind sets. If some Democrats are deluded in their blind beliefs that almost always out of choice. These people don't seem to exercise choice as much as just blind automatic jackboot marching.

[Kerrytravelers]

13. And what are these lobbyists and corporations using to get these morans so riled up?

Many things. Race is a part of that. It's a very dangerous part of that. It cuts to the core in a way other motivators won't because we've seen what happens when race gets people riled up. To unearth that in order to win a political gain isn't something to be brushes aside. They lobbyists and corporations could care less. They only care about their bottom lines. But the damage they're creating is dangerous.

[Kerrytravelers]

12. I see you edited your post while I was responding to you.

I don't see what is so illogical about seeing that race plays a big role for a number of the teabagging set. Feel free to search DU for some of those horrible signs. It was discussed to death last April. You think, after Powell supported Obama, that the teabagging set would vote for him? Really? I don't even think Powell would run as a Republican anymore. His party spat all over him when he supported Obama. Limbaugh went on and on about race. He still does... and he is a major motivator in getting these teabagging morans out to the townhall meetings. Beck lost advertisers over his comments... yet is pulling in a larger audience than ever. He's a major motivator for these idiots, too. Yes, the insurance companies are organizing these idiots at the townhall... but clearly Limbaugh, Beck, etc. are the motivators for the teabaggers.

Again, seeing racism as a large role in what is happening isn't so completely illogical. I'm baffled that this is so outrageous to you. And using movie stars as a reason that the teabaggers aren't racist, too, isn't a strong argument. How do we know what percentages of conservatives like or dislike each individual? The fact that Oprah is successful has nothing to do with whether those opposing Obama are racist or not. Movie stars aside, I'm looking at their leaders and their behavior and what they're using to rile up their base and race, among many other things, has a role.

[lunatica]

16. I'm not outraged. I'm trying to actually get past the latest outrage

that comes out of their mouths. Racism is blatant and obvious. I was trying to come to some understanding of what motivates racism that is so virulent. To outright dismiss the crazies is obviously not a good tactic. Not when they're getting all the support from the media and the pundits. Dismissing people as racist isn't going to work. But something could and the first step is to understand what they're really doing.

We'll stop arguing with them when we finally do understand that their real objective is to destroy, not just to insult or make up stories. They're quite set on destroying everything that is Democratic. I would even guess it may have something to do with the idea that they thought they were finally winning with George Bush. Now, Obama, just like Bill Clinton has come in to stop them. Naturally that makes them go into a blind rage. They were so close.

[Usrename]

19. I'll give this a try.

These people are connecting with the xenophobic fears that people seem to be born with. It's exactly what the Nazis did with their master race rhetoric. It is EXACTLY what made it possible to invade a country that had no involvement at all with 9/11. What you are seeing is the intentional manipulation of xenophobic reactions.

I'm pretty sure that Dr. Mengele did many of his twins experiments on this particular question, at least that is what I learned when I was ten years old. The question of whether we are born with an instinctual fear of "others" or if it is learned behavior. It turns out that we are born with it to a large degree. The way I understand it, it is similar to the way we are "wired" for language, as other cases have shown that babies who are isolated from all human contact would invent their own language at about the same age as normal children learn to speak. (Interestingly, back when I learned this stuff, those languages turned out to be most similar to American Sign Language.)

I've been looking for years for more recent information on this subject, and seems to not exist.

[lunatica]

21. Interesting point.

So this instinctual fear would be a survival mechanism which is just exploited to become racism.

That's what I was trying to articulate when I said they fear they'll be on the wrong side of lynching. So is racism the chicken or the egg?

[Usrename]

23. I know what you mean. The definitions can be confusing.

I don't think you have to be racist to be xenophobic, or vice versa.

According to Webster:

racism - : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

bigot - : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


xenophobia - : fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign


None of these words are synonymous. A person born with xenophobia could learn to throttle back their fear and not become a racist or a bigot. I would guess most progressives or enlightened individuals fall into this category. I would also guess that the recent experimentation with brain scans has shed a whole lot of light on what makes us tick in this regard, and from my experiences I would guess that the military industrial complex is at least ten years ahead of what is being accomplished in the public sector. We are being manipulated by folks who know a whole lot more about us than we do. Add to this the research into social networking and we have never been more vulnerable to propaganda. At least that's how I see things.


on edit> I re-read your post, and I see that you know what the definitions are. I'll leave that part of my reply there though, so that no one else is confused about what we are talking about. That seems to be best, just want you to know we are on the same page here, at least I think we are.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. I don't much worry about whether it's more racism or more anti-freedom that these Repukes are

spewing.

I worry more about making sure we don't continue to allow these fascists to hurt my country. They spent DECADES hurting it. It's time they're stopped by us.

[lunatica]

6. I agree because what they want is exactly what I don't want

I believe that we need to understand them. And I don't mean 'be understanding'. Like the most successful generals everywhere and throughout history it's all about understanding your enemy, and then using their strengths and weaknesses in your strategic actions.

Just saying someone is a racist doesn't create a deep understanding, but it does run the risk of diminishing our understanding.

That's all I'm trying to do.

[Solomon]

9. Another one in constant denial.

It's racism, pure and simple.

Stop being fooled by skin pigmentation. Color is a state of mind.

That's how they succeed with people like you. Stick a black person high up with a white mindset and then holler that it isn't racism.

Perhaps you need to realize. It's the whole world that is at stake, not just America. Unfortunately for white supremacists, the world is not white. Actually the fact that whites constant such a minority on the planet is the very reason for white supremacy.

[lunatica]

11. Did I say it wasn't racism?

If you bothered to read my post you would see I said it isn't just racism. And I also said that racist isn't a pure thing that comes out of it's own egg laid by itself. Racism is a reaction of fear.

Your determination to say I'm fooling myself is an argument as simplistic as any right wing sound bite I've heard. "It's racism pure as simple" isn't an answer. It's a mindless dismissal.

[Gman2]

14. You're all wet. Obama can still add to their insanity. With just a word.

Might as well have some fun, and get them really stupid. The stupider the better. I'm kinda starting to have fun again. When they are done calling him every literally every name in the book, He will then be supervetted. Not their intention, I'm sure. Nevertheless, there will be no words left. They will have to do that stupid bumping your elbows together, like rachel and ?, on friends. Or invent new words. Their misappropriated words are making them look antiintellectual. Let's roll

[create.peace]

15. from Rodgers and Hammerstein's South Pacific - a musical about racism

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

[lunatica]

17. I need to watch that movie again.

I just have trouble with musicals. I don't hate them but I can only take them in small quantities

[create.peace]

18. This is a good one, though the techicolors are a little over the top!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ve_Got_to_Be_Carefully_Taught

interesting wikepedia about the song

[lunatica]

20. Cripes! The old Commie Pinko argument

is the gift that keeps on giving does it? What did they argue with before the Bolshevik Revolution?

[create.peace]

22. good question, historians among us, what think ye?nt