I had an interesting and pleasant discussion with a young Mormon.

[jamesatemple]

Now, about the adjective "young"...I use it in the sense of comparison with my own age (nearly 69). I suspect that my friend is in her early 40's.

We began a friendship several years ago when she started taking guitar lessons from me at my guitar store in this small, East Texas town. I recognized after just a few lessons that she had great intelligence, talent, discipline, and desire to learn to play the instrument. I also learned that she was a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints which maintains a meeting place for a small congregation in a nearby town where she resided.

Soon, the question of my religious philosophy came up. I was pleased with her reaction to learning that I consider myself a Secular Humanist. She accepted that fact with a smile and asked me, politely, to tell her something about that philosophy, information that she received without the slightest condemnation on her part. Before the summer was out, she became a very good friend to my wife and me. My wife began taking a course of Pilate exercises at the young woman's small studio.

I was always impressed with the studious manner she adopted whenever questions of politics, education, religion, et al, were discussed. Without blurting out a preconceived opinion, she seemed to carefully consider the proposition before offering her contribution to the discussion. I don't know how to describe the aura of her presence among us but I think the terms "naive", "fresh", and "open" would have to be in the mix of identifying expressions.

Anyway, she was involved in an auto accident and was moved to her sister's home near Houston. We didn't get to see her nor hear from her for nearly two years. Then, just yesterday, she called from the old guitar store that I sold last year and asked if she could drop by for a visit. I was delighted to hear from her, told her I had just finished making a batch of salsa, and invited her to come right over. We sat on the front porch, watched with delight the antics of the hummingbirds gathered around the feeders, "pigged out" on salsa and chips, and took up the great conversation where we had left off. As you know, there were many new political developments that had occurred during her absence that we could discuss.

We discussed old issues as well. She informed me that the LDS position on abortion would allow that procedure in the event of rape or incest, but discouraged its application as a method of birth control. That was delightful news to me. Then, we came to the subject of universal health-care. She stated that she had heard both good stories and horror stories about government supported health-care in other countries. She had lived for a short time in Germany and, for a shorter time in Canada, but had not had an opportunity or the circumstances to experience health-care in either country. I explained that I had not had any experience at all at living in other countries (though I did spend some time in Oklahoma, a very foreign country) but that neither she nor I could make an objective judgment upon the public health-care of other countries. I suggested that there must be, among those who represent us, the intelligence and experience to make a valid judgment on the various aspects of universal health-care of other countries, perhaps even proposing a unique American approach that would work for our citizens. Still, she expressed reservation for the concept of government-supported universal health-care.

I then proposed a basic question...and her response startled me! "Do you believe that health-care is a basic right for all?" My religiously devout, kind, intelligent, thoughtful friend replied, "No". I sat there speechless for a few seconds during which her cell phone interrupted and terminated our conversation. With pleasant "goodbyes" and heartfelt promises to resume the "great conversation" soon, she was on her way.

Thus, here I sit, completely puzzled. If the kindest among us doesn't recognize a basic right to health-care, how can we hope to prevail in our quest for universal health-care? We know that corporate greed, coupled with rabid racism of anti-Obama teabaggers, birthers, and deathers is the major obstacle to overcome. But, I never imagined that intelligent folks, devoid of prejudice, would hesitate to support universal health-care.

I can't wait for her next visit. There must be some explanation for her position on the issue. I'd sure like to know what it is.

[tabatha]

1. Yes, I would like to hear that too

in your words, which are well-written.

[jamesatemple]

6. Oh, gosh (blush)! Thank you, tabatha.

Fact is, I'm crazy about your words!

[sam sarrha]

2. ..well, she is a member of a cult that brainwashes people... she is probably still good at heart

it's her head thats Fucked up,...

i am reading a book on this subject,
http://www.amazon.com/How-Changes-Your-Brain-Neuroscientist/dp/0345503414/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252255135&sr=8-1

the title is deceptive, its about how the different areas in the brain alter your perception... the book is essentially about meditation, how it works and how to do some of it, the title is literal, they show how religion/spirituality/meditation changes the brain and the results as to how that effects how people think.

it is based on and about the newest discoveries in Brain Imaging

[jamesatemple]

7. Thanks for the recommendation, Sam.

I'm sure one more book won't cause my old house to cave in. My wife, on the other hand, isn't so sure.

[sam sarrha]

11. this book is cutting edge research. it explains th power of cults and the GOP cult, the worst threat

to modern times is also a cult.. i get my books from Amazon used cheap.. you gotta check out this book



http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad-Ali-Sina/dp/0980994802 i was a research biologist from 1969, i do it as a life style..

it the best $12 i've ever spent on information.. i kid you not, i have lived in an islamic republic in the peace corps '73. all we get is dis-information. we are brainwashed to only repeat "Islamo-phobia" when people say anything against islam. a 'Phobia is an unreasonable fear' there is reason to fear islam, Ali Sina's book is written by an ex-muslim. it uses only historical data from the Muslim books.. yes, there are 3 holy books, Koran, Hiddah, and the Sunnah.. the Sunnah is what Muhammad did, it trumps what Allah dictated.. and turns Allah into Muhammad's sock puppet. it is all really scary when you find out what they are hiding. the muslims use the same techniques described in the brain scan book to manipulate their followers... besides real threats..

the GOP is also a Psychotic Narcissistic cult, look what they did in the South American Cone and Central America.. about 300,000 dead mostly tortured to death, or tortured some how before murdered..have you read the Shock Doctrine.. .. and the torture spree in Iraq, plus over 600,000 civilians dead.. a million dead in Viet Nam. if they ever get a charismatic psychotic narcissist leader the world is screwed. there is no doubt in my mind they are using the worst charismatic psychotic narcissist leader in history as a playbook. they are pretty on top of anything to control the masses.

[jamesatemple]

13. Aw, now you've done it, Sam!

You've raised my curiosity up to level "red". When those books that you've recommended arrive, I'll just tell the wife that they came from my cyber-pal, Sam. All the while, I'll be thinking "kinda" and crossing my fingers behind my back. She knows me so well, she'll just smile and say, "I'll fix us a cup of coffee; you find some place to put more books. One of these days, this ol' house is gonna...".

[sam sarrha]

16. i took my wife to Amazon.com and showed her the used price..$3.50 on one.."they are all used, i'm

Recycling..!!"

well let me know what you think about them, especially Ali Sina's Book..

the Dr Newman Brain scan book was most definitely a result of another Book.. 'Destructive Emotions:how can we overcome them, a Scientific Dialog with the Dali Lama, narrated y Daniel Goldman. 404 pages, 2003. at one of his annual gatherings of top scientists and philosophers at what are called 'Mind and Life Meetings, 5 day events in Dharmsala india. referred to as an intellectual Feast by one scientist.

the technicians and philosophers got together and accidental discovered that from Freud's day to present a "Control" had been missing from Brain function Research... they started doing brain scans using life long mediators from monastery's as controls.. since it was evident that they had the most control of their mind and emotions..

in the Dr newman book they refer to something the Tibetans call "Skillful Means", something that happens when you meditate over tome. a level of compassion that allows you to communicate with confused or discursive minds. they also used mediators in their spectrum of research. i taught meditation as a juvenile parole officer and counselor, i got miraculous results. they all became concerned compassionate individuals, helping and protecting the inmates they previously brutalized. they became insightful Waaay beyond their years. during Ron's parole hearing, a violent inmate 4 yrs in a 6 month institution, that they were evaluating to perhaps commit to a mental institution. ron was laying out his life plan to recovery at 16... it was so good.. one of the administrators stood up and said.."you cant be Ron.. what have you done with ron"? straight F's to straight A's in 2 months.

i wanted to do a Meditation Pilot Project "Apriori and Inductive Logic as Perceptual Dysfunction and a Stalemate in the Counseling Process." using activities that now are known to alter the regions of the brain discovered by Dr Newman. art, music, repetitious exercise or meditation. i got such good results they wouldn't let me do it, it threatened their system, the head of the state institution then said.."but thanks for getting rid of that asshole for us".

PM: me and let me know what you think of the books.

the Ali Sina book is really important, at you cant say anything "Wrong" about islam, one has to allude to something then make a comment once in the back door. back here it seems fairly OK to discuss things Taboo up front. Ali uses historical documents out of the Islamic holy books, he isn't making up stuff.

Ali's book explains laa this...

here are some other hidden subjects..
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apostates+of+islam&search_type=&aq=0&oq=apostates

ignore the rick warren bullshit
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apostates+of+hell&search_type=&aq=1&oq=apostates

again ignotr the rick warren crap
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apostates+be+warned&search_type=&aq=2&oq=apostates+

womens rights..
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islamic+women+rights&search_type=&aq=0&oq=islamic+women+r

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islamic+honor+killings&search_type=&aq=0&oq=islamic++honor+

[proud patriot]

3. You are welcome to share my story with her

if you think it might help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6460938

[jamesatemple]

8. I shall gladly do so, proud patriot!

Thank you for your kind offer.

[Warpy]

4. It's not a right simply because she's never thought in those terms

before. We all have cutoff points in our heads, I'm certainly no exception. Some are just a little more obvious than others.

People have to be forced away from those points from time to time. That was the case with Social Security, Medicare, the civil rights struggle, and even abolition. They'd never thought of people with black skin having the same rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so it just wasn't so.

Trying to compromise with cultural stinkin' thinkin' is always a losing battle. Because those cutoff points are so firm, there is never any way to budge them.

[jamesatemple]

9. A very interesting observation, Warpy.

I wish you could sit with me on my front porch and carry on this discussion until some chore interrupted us. That's one thing I hate, among others, about chores.

[southernyankeebelle]

5. Well how nice to actually met a person you could have a conservation with. Remember

the republican party as a whole do not think it is a right. As a democrat I happen to think it is a right like many in other countries. These people in 5 or even 10 yrs from now may not even have healthcare insurance because it will be out of their reach to buy. Then you will hear where is my.

[jamesatemple]

10. You know, ...belle,

I've grown so adamant about the idea of health-care being a natural right that I'd support a Constitutional amendment to make it so. To me, that right is just an extension of those included in the Declaration of Independence...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In fact, I read that the words of John Locke, English philosopher, were influential on a bit of the wording of that great Declaration. I believe his words were, "...no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions." Well, in my humble opinion, a whole bunch of good folks are being harmed in the lack of governmental support of universal health.

But, that's just me. Old men either become wise with age or go crazy with it. I'm afraid to ask my wife's opinion on which way I have gone.

[Laelth]

12. Great story. I hope you report back to us when you have her explanation. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[jamesatemple]

14. Indeed I shall, Laelth!

Thanks for your kind response.

[Laelth]

15. My pleasure. n/t

:)

:dem:

-Laelth