Money truly IS the root of all evil

[SoCalDem]

Just look at the things *some* people will do for money.

..... will kill for it

.......will cheat family members for it

........ are okay with letting other people die
(who wants to pay more so someone else can live)

.........against paying taxes to educate children

......... cheat on paying taxes to keep more for themselves

Think about Islanders. Pacific Islanders come to mind. These people lived happy lives for a very long time, until "the white man" came along and "introduced" modernity to them.

Before the white man came, these people lived a cycle of life that was in line with nature. The sea provided fish, so they fished.... they shared their catch.

the kids helped out and played.
The women tended the family and took care of gardening.

Their lives were at subsistence level, BUT their needs were met. Since food is perishable, and storms made housing "temporary", there was little use for hoarding or for greed. It made sense to share what one had with everyone else. They were part of their natural world. They played, they rested, they ate when they were hungry. They lived "on vacation"..all the time.

I am not saying their lives were always idyllic, but money did not intrude into their relationships with each other.

Missionaries , with their Puritanical zeal, introduced shame and greed to these people, taught them that work..hard work..and prayer.. lots of it were the only salvation for their society (which until then, had been doing quite nicely..or so they thought).

Now these people's descendants live in pretty crappy circumstances , as servants to the rich people who visit their islands, and they are the ones enjoying the surf & sand. The wages paid to the "locals" cannot afford many of them even the barest of necessities, and most of their "nice places" are now owned & operated by foreigners who don't "allow" them access anymore. The modern Islanders have jobs..they have Xboxes, they have tv, they may have cars, but what have they really gained? Human needs are the same as they have always been..food..water..shelter. Trinkets & amenities come and go, but once greed & money come into play, it's hard to be satisfied with less than someone else has.

Once things get assessed a money-value, everything changes.

You can see it in your own family.

What if you assessed a "fee" for breakfast?

Of course children cannot "afford" to buy breakfast, unless they have money, so now you have to create a job for that kid, that pays enough for him/her to pay you for the cereal. What if the kid does not do the work? Do you make them starve? Do you extend "credit" to them for the breakfast, with a promise to do the work later? What if they still don't do the work?

[Taverner]

1. It may be, but the actual quote is "Love of Money..."

[SoCalDem]

3. off topic, but... Is that you on the sled? Looks like Joe Scarborough

:rofl:

[Taverner]

6. Nope, its Ted Kennedy

[Deja Q]

7. "What's the point of a good quotation if you can't change it?"

:D

Besides, the OP doesn't cut corners and rationalize by the big blue book of fairy tales that everybody claims we should live by yet the same people never bothered to have read...

[notesdev]

22. Seconding that

Money itself is just a symbol. Things cannot be evil or good because they have no will, which is a prerequisite for evil or good.

The love of money - i.e. the willingness to do wrong to others in order to get it - is the root of all evil, is indeed the quote. And even then, money is just a form of power.

So more generally, the love of power is the root of all evil.

[Caliman73]

23. Thanks for that clarification

There is nothing wrong with money in and of itself. Love of money above all else is one of the roots of evil. So is excessive pride or love of self above all else. Most people would like to have enough money to meet their needs and a little extra for some leisure. There are those who want way more than they will ever need or could possibly use, because it gives them power. That is greed, and that is what causes the misery around us.

[Taverner]

28. Yes money is neither evil or good - its just metal and paper

Loving it, however, can lead to Evil

[Hawkowl]

2. Common misquote

It is the "love of money" that is the root of all evil. Not money itself.

[SoCalDem]

4. picky picky picky

:rofl:

[Dennis Donovan]

5. Greed is the root of all evil - money is a vessel to greed...

I know many who are "rich" but still support causes for the societal good...

[FarCenter]

8. Not everything was wonderful for Pacific Islanders

Easter Island's End
By Jared Diamond, in Discover Magazine
August 1995

In just a few centuries, the people of Easter Island wiped out their forest, drove their plants and animals to extinction, and saw their complex society spiral into chaos and cannibalism. Are we about to follow their lead?
<snip>

http://skeptically.org/env/id12.html

[SoCalDem]

10. We seem to be following their lead

:(..
Luckily other islanders did not follow their lead.. I wonder what made them do those things, when so many others found a way to live in harmony.

[FarCenter]

18. In his book COLLAPSE, Jared Diamond goes into some of the differences

Various islands and island groups fared better or worse, depending on the resources available, the timing of arrivals, whether they kept up exchanges with other islands, etc.

In pre-industrial societies, populations grew until the death rate from starvation, disease, and warfare balances the population with the available resources. Human sacrifices and cannibalism also help preserve a steady state.

[SoCalDem]

21. It's all interrelated, isn't it. People forget that the Black Plague

ushered in the Renaissance. fewer people to feed, and the die-off of the weak and aged, led to abundance that fed the intellectual revival..

[anigbrowl]

29. Banking took off during the same period

I'm afraid I don't think a whole lot of your theory. As Hobbes said of more primitive times: "the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Your references to an idyllic past call to mind the romantic-era thinking of Jacques Rousseau but anthropology suggests that harmony prevails prevails only as long as resources are abundant and communities are spread out. Even among primates, inter-group raids and murders take place. It may be that your placid harmonious society is the exception rather than the rule and can only persist in unusually favorable conditions. This is true on an evolutionary level so I see no reason it should not also be true of certain kinds of social structure.

[imdjh]

30. What harmony? War, economics, power struggles, etc... are universal.

That's the reason it's a "utopian society" and not a "paleo polynesian society".

Main Entry: uto·pia
Pronunciation: \yu̇-ˈtō-pē-ə\
Function: noun
Etymology: Utopia, imaginary and ideal country in Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More, from Greek ou not, no + topos place
Date: 1597
1 : an imaginary and indefinitely remote place
2 often capitalized : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions
3 : an impractical scheme for social improvement

[Trillo]

9. I wrote something similar

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6422379&mesg_id=6423610

The "'love' of money" quote appears to be the PsyOp.

[SoCalDem]

11. The misquote was accidental, but it sure bothers some, doesn't it?

Just read your post.. Thanks for the link.. Yours was more analytical than mine.. My brain's not up to analysis this early :rofl:..

I just keep remembering Tahiti, and how laid back & slow life is there.. at least on Moorea.. Papeete is a dirtier version of Miami.

Modernity is unavoidable now, but it's sad to see what was traded for it:(..

[madokie]

12. If it could be given to me to return to the earth after this life

at any time or place with any people I'd pick the Native American Cherokee. I feel that one of the biggest travesty of this all is the throwing away of the American Indian knowledge base. They lived as one with nature. A beautiful people.

[AllentownJake]

14. They just didn't have the tools to be assholes

Give the human being the tools necessary to be an asshole, regardless or race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, etc.

I'm sure there were problems in the Cherokee tribe that on a micro level mirror the overall human condition.

The human being will eventually become an asshole.

[madokie]

25. There you go

painting with a big assed brush. No, I do not ascribe to what you're saying at all, 'I'm sure'. I guess that just shows the difference between you and I, huh.

[AllentownJake]

26. 5000 years of human history are on my side

You act as if the Cherokee never fought a war with each other.

[madokie]

31. I implied nothing of the sorts.

But go ahead and project all you want, I don't mind :hi:

[AllentownJake]

13. Human Beings are greedy and stupid, race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion aside

I highly doubt it was idealic as you say. There was probably a chief who got the best fish, there was a murder every so often probably over a woman, and I'm sure there was some sort of diety they appeased with some sort of meaningless sacrifice.

We really are just a bunch of stupid evolved monkeys who have invented new ways to mastrubate and throw our shit at each other.

[Bluerthanblue]

17. check out these people-

i do believe there have been societies which aren't as fucked up as ours. They usually fall victim to the greedy- but someday, maybe, in the far distant future, mankind will quit making the same stupid decisions, and learn to live together in peace-

I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.


:hi:

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/sea-gypsies-of-the-andaman-sea/7946

[AllentownJake]

27. I'm not

The species evolves or kills itself.

[americanmutt]

15. greed comes in many forms...

Check out the movie,"The gods must be crazy". A perfect example of how simple it is to fuck up a good society!

[SoCalDem]

16. I LOVE that movie n/t

[duhneece]

19. Another point of view, lack of compassion is at the root of evil

“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949), I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men.

Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”

Quotation: Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trials.

I've been posting this everywhere I can.

[SoCalDem]

20. Yep.. absence of empathy goes hand-in-glove with greed & hate

and of course money helps these sorts of people push their agenda:grr:

[BlooInBloo]

24. Nah. People are.