"Happy Pills", Environmental factors and Thyroid disorder

[Liberation Angel]

Let me start by saying that I fully respect what the OP in the thread on happy pills (I m sorry that I misplaced the link) is saying in the sense that biochemical and neurological problems frequently have their root causes in the chemistry of the brain and nervous system and endocrine systems.

The NEED to address these imbalances is critical and may save your life and to criticize someone for seeking relief is inhumane and disrespectful.

But there are other perspectives which need to be considered.
Among them are the following:

1. Our brain and body chemistry is profoundly affected by our environment. Toxins, radiation, neurotoxins, and even pharmaceuticals themselves can be the underlying CAUSE of depression, anxiety, hypersensitivity, bipolar "disorder", schizophrenia, depression, and many other conditions.

2. Those who are critical of the pharmaceutical industry and to some extent of those who promote the use of "happy pills" have a perspective that we are missing the underlying causes of the problems and are being indoctrinated by the pharmaceutical industry (nd the whole military industrial complex) to accept pills as a substitute for removing the causative factors. Profit motivates the industries to keep us believing that "happy pills" are the solution when in reality they may be a PART of the problem.

3. In the 1930's and 1940's the pharmaceutical industries used millions of human guinea pigs globally, but especially in Nazi death camps, to perfect their wares. Even today one of the most lucrative ad revenue streams in alternative and other print media and other media is for volunteers to be experimented on.

4. Millions of people have extremely adverse reactions to antidepressants, SSRI's, and many other brain chemistry drugs and sp their is a chorus of many of these folks who have a very valid reason for warning others and even for criticizing those who advocate these drugs without reservation. They have seen the negative and even deadly effects and they cannot comfortably sit by while some advocate their use without reservations or warnings. The adverse effects of SSRI's in my own family were extremely devastating.

5. All of the above being factored in I wanted to mention a few things that might help many who have been diagnosed (and I worked in the mental health field most of my adult life as well as in the area of environmental medicine and assessment):

A. Hypothyroidism is frequently the cause of many major symptoms of depression, anxiety, OCD. One cause of Hypothyroidism is toxic elements in the environment, but particularly damage to the thyroid from radioactive iodine which is absorbed by the thyroid and kills or damages its function. Virtually every human being on earth has received some level of exposure to an made radiation which has damaged their thyroids and endocrine systems.

B. Blood tests for hypothyroid disorder (or damage) are extremely unreliable measures of whether you have had damage to your thyroid from toxic environmental substances like radio-iodine or other chemicals. The most reliable testing measures whether you have chronic low body temperature and other symptoms such as frequent sore throats, sinus infections etc.

C. In one study/interview I read at Thyroid specialist Mary Shomon's website about 50% of one doctor's depression patients were completely depression free after thyroid treatment and the literature indicates that others who are on antidepressants would be helped by adding natural thyroid hormones (which require a prescription) to their treatment.


If one researches their medical condition and diagnosis one will almost always find that hypothyroidism MAY be a significant factor and it MAY be either an environmental factor AND/or a genetic factor. Since the 1940's, however, nuclear testing has put many tons of thyroid-killing/damaging radioactive iodine into the air which fell globally affecting our parents, grandparents and all of us. When you add to that the SSRI's in the water, chemicals in our air and water and food, etc., it is impossible to pinpoint any one source of the cause. Genetic factors play a role but it MAY be an assault from the environment that is making you depressed, anxious and ill.

I will close with this note and a link to some info:

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/ articlerender.fcgi?artid=1308833 <(National Institutes of Health)

"CONCLUSIONS: Depressed patients should be screened for hypothyroidism. In hypothyroid patients, depression may be more responsive to a replacement regimen that includes T3 rather than T4 alone. Therefore, inclusion of T3 in the treatment regimen may be warranted after adequate trial with T4 alone."

Link> www.biopsychiatry.com/hypothyroidism.htm <(Department of Behavioral Medicine and Psychiatry)

Patients should be pro-active in discussing optimal HRT with their Doctors because it is afterall a person's health at stake, which affects every aspect of their lives. It is only right that hypothyroid patients be treated, so that they can pursue their livelihood, family needs and enjoyment and all around quality of life. There are sensational Doctors out there but the ones who don't understand the need to optimally treat hypothyroid patients, in my opinion, should refer their hypothyroid patients, to the Doctors who do.

I urge folks to google depression and hypothyroid disorder (or anxiety and hypothyroid, etc.) for more info. You may be able to get off the happy pills OR if you really need them the thyroid treatment (which is not expensive) may enhance and improve the effect of the SSRI's and may even permit lower dosages .

I am NOT a doctor but I have been researching this in the environmental/medicine and mental health field for many years.

I thought it might help.

Your illness is NOT imaginary. But it MAY really be something you can actually heal caused by an assault on your biochemistry from the chemical and pharmaceutical complex. Or thyroid treatment MAY help your overall treatment and make "happy pills" either unnecessary, or not necessary in too high a dose.

also check out this article by a psychiatrist and specialist in this field and follow the links for Mary Shomon who is an online expert I think can get you the info you may need:

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/cohendepression.htm



But if you have chronic cold extremities and low body temperature (especially in the winter, i.e. below 98 degree) then your thyroid may need help to make you feel better all around and blood testing alone may not catch it. So look farther for the answers.

Hope this helps SOMEONE! I do not mean to offend ANYONE but have info i thought might help many.

[rox63]

1. Thyroid tests are a normal part of my medication monitoring

My thyroid tests are consistantly normal, and I still need antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds to be a functional human being.

[Liberation Angel]

5. Check out the articles on the testing

I actually did an Earth Day presentation on thyroid problems and environmental damage with an MD on, among other things, why the standard blood tests for hypothyroid MISS the problem in most people.

While it is considered the "gold standard" by most doctors, there is a strong current in the medical community that says these tests are unreliable and give false throid data.

I urge you to read up and maybe ask about some of the othet tests (or do them yourself - the body temperature test is very easy to do and very convincing). My body temperature and my kids and wife were down almost two degrees below normal or more even though our blood tests were mostly "normal". Our doctor prescirbed us armur thyroid right away nd we felt a thousand times better in about a week.

Unfortunately since many SSRI's are addictive (or have serious withdrawal symptoms) only careful monitoring by a doctor experienced in this field (thyroid treatment for depression in lieu of SSRI's) can get you through it safely.

But check out the Mary Shomon sites and discussion board to get much better info than I can give here.

Most doctors are not cool with you questioning them on this. But there is tons of documentation to show that they are simply not well enough informed and have tunnel vision on this. It is a major problem in terms of diagnosis and is often missed or not taken seriously (giving the pills is easier and time saving than running more tests - and less galling if you have a "difficult" patient)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. My doc is very cool with doing all this

and she uses a variety of tests to determine if someone's meds are keeping the thyroid okay. She has pts take their temps all the time. What do you think about the reflex test? Doc says that's a quick way to get an idea if someone has low thyroid.

[Liberation Angel]

31. I am not familiar with tht, but

with a body temp that dips below 96 degrees in the winterI have pretty classic temp issues.

But without the treatment all of my systems are off

[loudsue]

24. Armour Thyroid changed their formula w/out FDA approval

at some point, and I became allergic to their "new" formula. I just found out about this TODAY, in fact, w/ a phone call from a friend whose husband had ALSO become allergic to Armour Thyroid.

I am allergic to Synthroid, as well.

Anyway, for those who have had this same problem w/ Armour, the FDA made them drop back & do their old formula pending approval of the one that is worthless, so some of us can prolly take Armour for a while longer, if it pleases.

I think I'm just going to stick w/ the herbal remedies. The allergy to Armour was too painful to want to try again.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. check out your local compounding pharmacist

he or she may be able to help you get a natural thyroid that will work for you.

[Liberation Angel]

30. check out the shomon website for alternatives to armour

there re others that are the same as the old kind

There is a serious effort to undermine this therapy btw

both the pharmaceutical industry and big medicine do NOT want people to get this medication or treatment.

I have my theories on why this is

anyway, Mary Shomon talks about this on her homepage

[MzNov]

34. Whoa, when did Armour change its formula?

I've been on Armour thyroid for years. I have a pretty high dose but recently am experiencing a high level of exhaustion. I was wondering if I had gone back into hypothyroid state.

I've read all of Mary Shomon's book. I highly recommend to anyone. She is an excellent source of massive info on the tyroid.

Thank you for this information!


edit for spelling

[Native]

41. Go to Shomon's site. She has a couple of articles on the reformulation.

. . . I started getting the new formula in May/June & immediately started having hypo symptoms again. Unfortunately, there's now a big shortage due to FDA issues. Some people think this may be the end of natural desiccated thyroid drugs. You can read all about this on her site as well http://thyroid.about.com/

[MzNov]

43. Thank you!

I immediately went to her site when I read this thread. I have also found a compounding pharmacy in my area and am in the process of changing to another natural thyroid replacement. I am so glad I saw this! I've also been reading testimonials from people all over the country who are having hypo symptoms again, which all fit perfectly with my mysterious symptoms.

Thanks to all for these threads and the information!

:bounce:

Good health to all. :toast:

[Native]

44. I'm going to go the compounding route as well. I've purchased a few months supply of Armour, but

now that I won't be able to switch to Nature-throid or Westhroid due to the shortage/stoppage, I've no choice. It costs considerably more to get it compounded, but it's worth getting my life back.

[MzNov]

47. The pharmacist I spoke to

did not mention the shortage of Naturethroid or Westhroid. So what is your prescription? A combo of Snythroid and/or other things?

Shomon also recommends going to Canda, where there is no shortage of dessicated thyroid. Theirs is called "Thyroid" by Efca. Your doctor has to fill out a form and take it from there. I might do that too.

http://thyroid.erfa.net/

erfa, not Efca

[Native]

48. Wow - thanks for the info on getting the NDT from Canada . . .

I read about this on Mary's site, but just assumed it would be a major hassle so didn't check it out. Looks like it wouldn't be at all difficult to go this route. Thanks a lot. I'm currently on Armour & was recently given an Rx for Nature-Throid. Even though it was my next alternative, I still wasn't thrilled about going the compounded route since they're predicting shortages there as well. Your suggestion sounds like a real alternative. I can't thank you enough.

[blueworld]

15. Excellent post, thanks. I'll add 2 cents

The "established levels" of thyroid hormones were ultimately determined by monitoring & testing MEN, average ht & wt 6 foot, 180 pounds or so. In fact, women metabolize differently than men & I'd love to see some serious study on INDIVIDUAL levels of these hormones. I sincerely doubt the "one size fits all" crap they push as far as healthy levels of thyroid hormone. Just my opinion & thanks again for the post.

[JohnnyLib2]

2. Thank you.

I've just forwarded the references to a relative dealing with both factors. :thumbsup:

[Liberation Angel]

3. I have been dealing with this for years

I am a downwinder whose kids were exposed to radiation (as was I and my wife). Before we understood why our thyroids were so messed up SSRI's were recommended and we went through hell. Literally it seemed like hell. Once we got on armour thyroid (a natural desiccated tyroid supplement) almost all of the symptoms went away. But the SSRI's left some permanent damage.

[JohnnyLib2]

8. Shocking. Utah? Nevada?

All too familiar in my background. Glad you found partial relief.

[Liberation Angel]

9. Near NYC. Indian Point. Milstone. Haddam neck BUT Iodine DOSE calculator is online

They all pump radiation into the air and into Long Island Soud where I sued to swim with my kids every day in the sumer. Not too far from the effluent pipes. i worked in the nuke industry very briefly in their environmental medicine and litigation department. But I also worked on an environmental subcommittee on the Hill where safety issues hearings were part of my focus.

I did not learn about the thyroid problems, though, until years after.

The nuke testing in Nevada and Utah actualy rained down radiation on new england and most of us alive then got heavily dosed with radioactive iodine.

The National Cancer Institute even has a site where you can calculate the dose of radio-iodine you recived in utero or as a child etc by county and by birthdate and diet (I grew up on a dairy and was breast fed so i got very high doses of radio-iodine as did most new englanders in the 1950's and '60's)

Here is the place you can check to find out if you and your loved ones were dosed

http://www.cancer.gov/i131

Look for the link to the dose calculator

[Mnemosyne]

I was born in Lincoln, NE, AirForce kid. Wow, numbers are high compared to

even other cities in NE.

Thank you for the link!

[Liberation Angel]

32. This is a nucler elephant they have been able to keep disappeared for awhile

wth the internet thugh more people will find out

that they were dosed and dosed heavy

it really sucks and my thoughts are with you

My own belief i that this shit is all for population control.

The sicker we are and the ore who die young, the easier it is to control us...

Plus they do NOT wat to pay damages for the injuries and death they have caused.

[Mnemosyne]

49. My Mom died in July from extremely aggressive and extensive cancer.

It was everywhere except her hands, feet and we believe her lungs.
Doctors were baffled.

Between DES, pesticides, mercury and that, sounds as if I've found the mix.

Thank you for your kind thoughts, Lib Angel. :hug:

[Liberation Angel]

55. Ted Kennedy lived near the nuke plant in Plymouth mass

Chris Dodd lives within a mile of the nuke waste repository in Haddam Neck (Con Yankee)

Tipper Gore has thyroid disease and they lived next to Oak Ridge (nuke weapons lab, processing center)

See - it gets anyone.

I think the bastards know and there ARE preventive measures (iodine and calcium in diet works wonders for prevention of absorption of the worst radionucleide killer emissions)

But diagnostic xrays etc also are harming millions. (google news this week has new reports on this)

on top of that the radiation acts synergistically with the toxic chemicals and attacks the weakest organs (so if you smoke and work in a nuke plant etc you are many more times to die than if you smoed and did NOT work around radiation)

My sincerest condolences.

We have to protect our children otherwise their lives will be even more fucked than they already are.


Knowledge is power.

One scientist said there should be nuremberg trials for the nuke industry executies (includes Halliburton)

and there is more...

it mutates viruses and bacteria and they evolve with the mutations much faster than we can adapt to them so we die in pandemics like bird flu, swine flu, Lyme, west nile, norwalk (cruiseship virus), legionairres disease etc.. One top physicist I know says he believes AIDS may have mutated due to nuke tests in the south pacific which rained down on mount Kilimanjaro in the 1940's and '50's mutating that strain and getting into lake tanganyika from the melting snows and rivers. (where AIDS originated).

[Liberation Angel]

62. My sincerest condolences

I have lost some very close friends and family members too in this way and know how hard it is.

We can learn from this all and help our friends and children...

at least that can give some comfort I hope.

Hugs.

[LWolf]

4. I take thyroid.

Except that I can't renew my prescription, running out in a few weeks, without another blood test.

Since I haven't paid for last year's test yet, I'm not sure what to do about that.

Paycuts have left me barely scraping by each month. I don't have an extra $300 to pay the old bill, let alone another $300 for the next.

[Liberation Angel]

6. You can order the test yourself most places

for about $40. Call a lab.

Then send the results to your doctor.

I have the same problem, but without the thyroid meds (NOT the synthroid but the natural ones like armour) I feel like death.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Armour is getting very hard to get

The pharma. chains are trying to switch people to Synthroid, which doesn't work for everyone. Natural equivalents to Armour are Naturethroid and Westhroid. We've found three compounding pharmacies that will make their versions of Armour as well. So if you find you're having trouble getting Armour, PM me and I can give you names/phone numbers of those pharmacies, which mail out all over the country.

[gkhouston]

21. I have encountered doctors reluctant to prescribe Armour who were willing

to prescribe Cytomel (synthetic T3) in combination with some brand of levothyroxine (Synthroid, Levoxyl, etc.). If straight T3 makes you feel too zippy (not one of my problems) or you have the 5pm crash even when you spread your Cytomel out over the day, you can get a compounding pharmacy to make up a sustained-release capsule.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. compounding pharmacies are great

and a resource that many don't know about.

[gkhouston]

27. I love mine and they do mail order.

My husband's thinking of taking a new job out of state and I may just have my current pharmacy mail my prescriptions. I've already checked, and they can do that for several states.

[LWolf]

60. Armour is what I take,

and it makes a huge difference.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. What thyroid test do you take?

If it is just a TSH, it costs $25 retail at our office. My doc says you don't always have to have T-3 and T-4 tested; and there are different tests for those two elements, some of which are quite pricey. You may wish to shop around.

[LWolf]

59. My naturopath

orders the tests, which also test blood sugars.

I WILL shop around, if I can get them cheaper.

[ensho]

7. thank you for info

nt

[Liberation Angel]

10. I think we all should be aware of this

it is a serious problem and many with depression know NOTHING about it.

the nuclear industry keeps it hushed up and so does the pharmaceutical industry (they make a lot more money with antidepressans than they would from desiccated thyroid from cows and pigs etc.)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Another way to tell if you have hypothyroidism

is to check for hair loss, especially the outer third to half of your eyebrows. And then there's the ankle reflex test you can check. Doc (my boss) tells me that my thyroid levels are okay, but never told me that OCD was a symptom....hmmm....she LIKES me being OCD because I'm so thorough with office work.

[Jane Austin]

12. Most docs don't test for T3.

I think that's the one that when supplemented (Cytomel) helps depression.

Synthroid doesn't have T3 in it.

I am not a doctor or scientist and I've only had one cup of coffee so far, so please forgive mistakes. :)

[Jane Austin]

13. Armour, does contain T3, I believe.

Is that still called Thyrolar?

[gkhouston]

16. Armour and Thyrolar are two different drugs.

My understanding Thyrolar is a synthetic T3/T4 combination and Armour is made from dessicated pig's thyroids.

On edit: yes, Armour contains T3 as well as T4. Also, some metabolites for T1 and T2, I think?? It can be hard to find a doctor willing to prescribe Armour just as it's difficult sometimes to get a doctor to prescribe Cytomel (a synthetic brand of T3), but some thyroid patients don't feel well on T4 (levothyroxine) alone.

[MzNov]

36. Yes, also contains T4.

[MorningGlow]

14. Couldn't agree more

I was diagnosed as hypothyroid nine years ago--finally, after two years of fighting with the medical community because my TSH wasn't "high enough" to warrant a diagnosis, let alone treatment.

I had a brazillion bad symptoms that made me feel like 85 instead of 35. I was half dead. Plus I was massively depressed and highly emotional. In addition, my periods stopped, leading my ob/gyn to believe I was menopausal--at 35! It was all entirely hormonal. Once I got treatment (goddess bless my holistic m.d. and Armour Thyroid), all my symptoms abated, my periods returned, and I was no longer depressed.

So nobody can tell me that isn't all interrelated.

The sad thing is because thyroid problems affect mostly women, doctors don't know enough about it and therefore dismiss it as an "hysterical female" upset over gaining weight and they should just "live with it". We're not so very far from Victorian medical "knowledge" as we think.

[AspenRose]

28. +1

I switched doctors when the doctor I had refused to give me Armour Thyroid.

[MorningGlow]

45. ROFL I went through several

I sure learned how to knock members of the medical community off their pedestal, kick 'em to the curb, and keep looking till I found decent caregivers.

[Liberation Angel]

35. Wow - that is a story that I am glad you are here to share!

Doctors get ths wrong for men and for women and there is a very active anti-natural thyroid effort.

When one understands the issues and educates themselves they can see that when your thyroid is fucked up it fucks up your entire hormonal/endocrine system and hence your emotional state, consicousness, immune system, heart rate, adrenals, EVERYTHING. Anxiety disorders are caused in part by a messed up adrenal system which is connected to the thyrois and onieal and pituitary etc (like the old bone song - its all conected and interrelated).

Many people on SSRI's could probably get off them entirely IF they have this condition and get it treated.

Failure to treat it makes all the conditions worsen and the toll on the body and mind is severe. Th damage can be permanent.

And very few see the connection to environmental factors or especially to nuclear power plants etc leaking into the water or military facilities which leak too (my area is particularly bad for all this shit)

Your story is encouraging and a lot like mine.

But I am a guy and people just thought I was hysterical about it too (or worse).

[MorningGlow]

46. VERY anti-natural thyroid

After I was diagnosed and had been treated for a while, I found out (to my shock) that my own father was on thyroid meds. He didn't even know why he was taking them! He also hadn't had his TSH and other thyroid tests done in YEARS--just kept taking the same dose of whatever he had--perhaps Levoxyl, I forget--blindly. (He was of the generation who believe all doctors are gods and not to be questioned.) I went with him to his doctor's appointment and gave the guy what for. We argued about synthetic vs. natural, and true to form, the doctor started spouting Big Pharma's line about how Armour was inconsistent and had a poor shelf life. Gee, where did he hear that? The Synthroid reps--the Repukes of the Pharma world with their projection, assigning Synthroid's weaknesses to "the other side." I made sure my dad never saw that doctor again. I tried to get him proper treatment, but was only marginally successful. He kept begging me "not to bother the doctors."

Guhhhhh I've got a million stories just like this one. I am a thyroid disease veteran and I wear my medals proudly!
:rofl:

BTW, I'm in the western part of New York State--another hypothyroid belt. WHEN are people going to investigate the environmental aspects of this disease?!

Thanks for this thread, LA. This is a very important subject that everyone should know about.

[Liberation Angel]

56. Very good stories and account morning glow - question though...

Are you near nuke plants?

Military stuff. Upstream or downwind?
Pennsylvania has some stuff and the Norwalk virus (cruiseship) started near the norwalk ohio nuke spillage/leaks on the great lakes.

But the shit flows and blows everywhere. Just worse in some neighborhoods and waterways.

Even Chernobyl nuke rain came down on New England. A friend who scoffed at me for not wanting to get wet in that rain (I was working for the industry and followed the reports) and who went out with no umbrella laughing died shortly thereafter of a lung infection/virus --- and he did not smoke either. He was a good friend and he thought I was being ridiculous to worry about the radiation in the rain.

Still sad about that...

[MorningGlow]

57. I grew up upwind of the Ginna nuclear plant on the shore of Lake Ontario

and downwind of all the Eastman Kodak Company factories, who escaped a lawsuit for causing a brain-tumor belt...but the court's decision has always been highly suspect. Plus there's also the long-rumored "top-secret" missile launching locations south of Rochester in the Finger Lakes.

[Liberation Angel]

63. Sadly, I found this study on western NY.

http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=127



Byproduct of Nuclear Reprocessing Still Present in Western New York


A new study by University of Rochester researchers shows that byproducts of nuclear activities can remain in the environment longer than previously thought.

A team led by Udo Fehn, professor in the Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences, and graduate student Usha Rao is investigating a new way to trace nuclear emissions as they work their way through the environment. Fehn and Rao are making measurements using accelerator mass spectrometry (AMS), a technique pioneered at the University.

The team measured concentrations of iodine-129 (I-129) in western New York and adjoining areas. I-129 is a long-lived radioactive isotope (an isotope has the same chemical characteristics of an element but has a different mass) produced by the fission of uranium in nuclear reactors.

Fehn and Rao found elevated levels of I-129 more than 125 miles from its source at West Valley, the site of a nuclear reprocessing facility that operated from 1966 to 1972. West Valley is about 30 miles southeast of Buffalo.

There is the CLAIM that this poses no danger but that is patently false IMHO and all the research say that is BS. Note too that tis is MAN-MADE radiation created by nuclear reactors. Because of liability fears the industry (including researchers working for the industry almost ALWAYS claim it is not harmful. But when you get sick you know how wrong that is. Especially when your doctor (as mine did) says that is what caused your illness.

[shireen]

17. few questions

thanks for the info.

1) is there something wrong with taking synthroid instead?
2) the drug is made from the thyroid gland of pigs. Are there manufacturing safety rules in place to ensure that other chemicals, like synthetic hormones administered to livestock, are excluded from the thyroid pills?
3) if the standard blood tests are unreliable, and dosage should be administered based on symptoms. how difficult is it to determine a proper dosage?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. Some answers

I'm not an MD, but I work for one, and I'm hypo myself. The answers are based on what I've heard while in the office and what she's told me personally.

1. There's nothing wrong with synthroid in general--but there can be a BIG problem for a specific individual. In some folks, it doesn't work, or they have an adverse reaction. But some of our patients use synthroid, some use Armour, and some use BOTH.

2. The rules right now in place are one reason there is a shortage of Armour right now. The FDA is asking for extensive testing of the thyroids being used, but I'm not sure whether it is because of your concerns or if it is connected with the swine flu. Right now we have compounding pharmacies in place who are willing to compound their version of Armour if the supply dries up entirely. We know the pharmacists, and rely upon them to get high quality ingredients to use--and since we're an integrative medicine practice, they know that we want natural with no added stuff.

3. The difficulty of dosage varies with each patient. My doc does iodine therapy when warranted (like when there are cysts on your thyroid, which I have), and closely monitors iodine dosage. She tells her patients what symptoms to check for if she changes thyroid medicine dosage, and tells them to change dosage if these symptoms occur. Some folks have spent a month or so getting the dosage correct, while others have no problems from the get-go. BTW, though Doc uses the various tests, she relies more on symptoms and the ankle reflex test to determine if the thyroid needs treatment. She got in trouble with BC/BS for giving thyroid to patients with "normal" TSH levels who were exhibiting symptoms of hypothyroidism.

[shireen]

51. thanks ayeshahaqqiqa

i'm finding this thread really interesting. Appreciate the info.
:hi:

[Liberation Angel]

39. a few more answers

1. Synthroid was the subjct of a class action for faking study results. Many practitioners feel that it is NOT as good as natural dessicated thyroid (some might argue that it is incomplete or not "Holistic" in the sense that it is lacking in the proper natural healing properties. It lacks the complete thyroid hormone replacement which may be required for synergy for them to work.

2.That I cannot answer nd has always concerned me. For me the alternatie was way worse though. I wish there were organic thryroids of cows and hogs to ingest.

3. Usually they start you on a low dose trial and check the results but it is pretty standard. You should NEVER overdose on this as it can be hazardous. But my doctor and I found that by monitoring my body temperature when it reached normal (98.6) THAT was the dose that made me feel best. You start low (1/4 to 1/2 a small pill, like sixty grains, and work up slowly after a few weeks) I ended up taking about 90-120 grains split in half per day in two doses (one 60 grain in the morning and the other in the late afternoon)

It was like magic.

My brother, an MD, said it was placebo but he is way old school AMA and very uptight plus he supports nukes and thinks I am way too far left.

Besides how in hell could my tempeature go up two degrees or more by placebo?

I was literally shivering from September to May.

[shireen]

50. thanks Liberation Angel ...

this is very interesting stuff. :hi:

[Liberation Angel]

52. I hope it helps someone --- but there is more

more to learn.

I worked with the scientists doing rsearch on thyoid and other problems caused by radioactive effluents and emissions.

It is scary stuff.

But the knowledge that we are being poisoned and that there are things we can do to heal ourselves is real power.

www.radiation.org has studies (check their links and publications)

[Igel]

23. That's the kind of thing that's true,

but partial knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Take the reference to iodine. The dangerous isotopes are dangerous because they have short half lives. That means a few weeks after being emitted, they're much less dangerous. A year or two later, they're benign. You can tell RAI was originally there in a sample, but you can only tell how much was there because the ratio of relatively stable isotopes is different from what existed before. Even if you've ingested RAI, you still have to deal with differential absorption (only about 80% of ingested iodine is absorbed, and what you eat with the RAI has a big effect on that number); where the iodine is stored before use (largely in the interstitial fluids, unless you've been avoiding iodine); and the biologic half life (while there's a pretty good amount of recycling of iodine, some's flushed out every day). So the amount of RAI absorbed by the thyroid varies quite a bit--even if absorbed by the body, it may not be taken up by the thyroid in the quantities assumed.

Then there are the effects of hypothyroidism. Depression's associated with it, but it's not the primary one; emotional volatility is also associated with it, and is more common. And cold intolerance (not really "cold in winter"), lethargy, slow pulse, slowness of thinking, constipation, reduced appetite, weight gain. Long term you wind up with a variety of chronic ailments--less so if you're treated, but still you're more prone to heart disease, say. The T3 concentration is, to some extent, idiosyncratic--so there's a rather wide reference range, and what's 'normal' for you is, well, dependent at least in part upon you. So just looking at test results and not symptoms isn't a sound way to diagnose thyroid ailments.

It's also risky to diagnose based on a single symptom. What caused them to find my hyperthyroidism was swollen feet, which caused them to ask about other things--then it was obvious. Massive weight loss, anxiety, tachycardia and atrial fibrillation, etc., etc.

Then again, depression can have a lot of causes, and two things frequently happen. One, psychologically, emotionally driven depression is amenable to a strong placebo affect, take T4 supplements or sugar, you "get better" and in both cases your brain chemistry changes (since, well, emotions are brain chemistry); two, people often seek help as their depression is lifting, when their motivation is increased (so the cure precedes the medicine). If you're not really hypothyroid, then all you're doing is either wasting T4 (no big deal) or making yourself hyperthyroid. It's hard to be depressed and hyperthyroid, although I'm sure it's possible.

Depression isn't associated with hyperthyroidism. Instead you get heat insensitivity, anxiety and "racing thoughts" (and at high levels of T3 attention deficit and faltering memory, since you can't stop your thoughts from racing elsewhere), weight loss, loose bowels, tremors, large muscle weakness, insomnia and absolute exhaustion early in the day. Long term you wind up with heart problems (just not the same as with hypothyroidism) and serious osteoporosis, among others.

Yet, it's true that increasing T3 can help in more than a few cases of depression, as well as relieve the other symptoms. The problem is that T4 supplements are typically for life, and if your depression's not caused by hypothyroidism but something else, artificial hyperthyroidism can mask the underlying cause, basically forcing the brain to act in a certain way. Long term, that's bad. While there are claims that subclinical hypothyroidism is bad, hyperthyroidism, subclinical or otherwise, is easily no better.

Some people take high doses of T4 to lose weight. It works, of course, if it doesn't kill you. Nasty to your body, even though it was a sort of high-class fad a few years back.

Others find that T4 serves as a super caffeine. It increases your pulse, it makes you warmer, it makes you think faster (sometimes too fast), helps you to bound out of bed in the morning (frequently at, oh, 4:30 or 5 am). It's a great pick-me-up. So are methamphetamines, of course. That T4 is "natural" is a great selling point. Still, it's dangerous, all the more dangerous that the damage isn't always immediately salient and that it's billed as natural. Surely "natural" things aren't dangerous (as though there's anything "natural" about eating that much bovine or pig thyroid tissue in isolation). Then again, old-fashioned licorice was natural, right? Yet the glycyrhizic acid in licorice can do a number on your hormonal systems--you'd have to work hard to eat such an unnatural quantity of licorice root, were it not that you could buy it.

The problem is exemplified by my wife. She's read up, done "internet research", on occasiona without bothering to delve into the professional research literature. Often she has read the professional literature, and found nothing or nearly nothing on some new, trendy food supplement. Driving her cynicism was research she did for her siblings: Drugs that had an anti-bipolar or anti-depression effect but which had nasty symptoms, yet were prescribed for her siblings; or, conversely, those that had few known nasty effects but which, because they weren't under patent, never went through clinical trials to be approved for depression. She knows that there's research that's good, research that's bad, and research that's done or not done for primarily financial reasons. (Of course, the same is true for "Internet research"--anecdotes aren't controlled experiments, and it's usually either sellers of the supplements, media reliant upon ad sales from sellers of supplements, or media who need to publish new, exciting, exclusive results to make their readers feel more enlightened than the average Joe and buy the publication or media service.)

[Liberation Angel]

37. Good points

Radiodine can also cause hyperthyroidism too as well as cancers. And your point is well taken.

I read the studies but consulted at length with a number of physicians who speicalize in this.. But I have two doctors in my family who did not get this at all.

It is critical to be armed with info.

Originally this post was in response to the thread on SSRI's and what some were calling "Happy pills" and defending their widespread use. I posted a new thread by accident (haven't been posting much and hit new post instead of reply)

anyway

you r points re good ones and people need to do their research and find knowledgeable treatment providrs. One cannot get armour or naturl thyroid without a prescription in any case.

The mary shomon site has links for checking doctors who treat this by state.

But those who use SSRI's or other brai chemistry alteratives wothout knowing their alternatives should check this out and ask ther doctors and find a doctor who is familiar with this situation. It is not taught in med school and is usually enlightened or holistic folks with MD's that prescribe and treat these problems.

[Berry Cool]

29. I understand what you're driving at, and you have some good points.

But you need to understand that the term "happy pills" is one that many people find both misleading and offensive, and it might help you get your point across if you referred to them by a more neutral phrase such as "antidepressants," which suggests a better understanding of how they actually work.

Edited to add: And SSRIs are not addictive. Where did you get that information from?

[Liberation Angel]

33. Thanks - the term "happy pills" was in reference to another OP

but I lost the link and have been too busy to try to find it. The OP used that term in defense of SSRI's.

As for addiction, if yu have ever been through the withdrawal process for someone who has run out of their prozac (as I have several times) you will know that the suffering is greater than the original depression. It is one of the scriest things I have ever seen (and I have worked with heroin addicts undergoing withdrawal) This was worse for a very close friend could NOT get off the SSRI's. Even when she wanted to. The side effects too were horrible.

[Posteritatis]

38. The "happy pills" term here..

..was used in reference to another thread quite worth reading started the other day, which itself used it as a reaction to another post which was throwing the term around in the way that you take offense to there.

Basically some other guy posted an ill-informed rant which mentioned "happy pills," among other things, as proof of the Horrific Decline Of Western Civilization or something similarly ridiculous. He meant the term as the clueless pejorative you rightly take offense to, and it's started a few other posters throwing the term out specifically to challenge that mindset.

[Blue Diadem]

40. May not be classified as addictive but SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome

does happen.

[Jennicut]

58. SSRIs have horrible withdrawal symptoms

I have been on Lexapro for 3 years and was on Prozac for 8 years.....brain zaps, shaking, nausea, dizziness, major depression worse then before....it was all there when I switched over from Prozac to Lexapro. If I skip more then two days on the Lexapro, it gets bad. I want to switch to something with less side effects. Not sure yet. I have had PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder) for years. Really bad mood swings right before my period and bad depression. The SSRIs help but the side effects (weight gain, etc.) and withdrawal symptoms suck.

[Liberation Angel]

61. Depending on where you live in Connecticut, you may be more at risk from the thyroid damage

which might make all your symptoms worse.

Anywhere along the coast or the Connecticut river or near the NY border close to Indian point. Haddam is particularly bad as is new london county.

But unfortunately the water in the sound and connecticut river is highly irradiated (as well as the Thames river) and the action of waves particalizes the stuff into the air.

Antioxidents can help heal and calcium and good seafood can help prevent (sardines, mackerel, anchovies) damage.

But if you live in any of these areas I would have your doctor check the thyroi and also check the basal body temperature stuff.

It might help.

i hope so.

My whole family went through this and I know how hard it is.

Hang in there; there is stuff you can do...

and it really really works for almost everyone.

It DOES take energy that gets zapped by the harm we have suffered (and which is really all around us - once you start asking about thyroid stuff it is truly amazing how many folks, especially in nuclear communities, have these symptoms and who are put on SSRI's as "treatment" to manage the symptoms as opposed to alleiating the problem and healing the biochemistry which has ben assaulted.

Keep the faith, jennicut, it will get better and you can make that happen.

So often the MDs just say here's the meds, or try this, and they never ever even check the thyroid orr if they do they do not know the blood tests are crappy (or they just don't want to believe it or even have the time to care that much).

Hang in there and don't surrender to the funk...

Brighter days are ahead...

[Jennicut]

65. I actually have type 2 diabetes already.

It can be related to hypothyroidism. Thankfully because of the diabetes I get tested for everything. The thyroid seems okay for now but you never know what they miss on these tests. There was also never any real evidence that I was becoming a diabetic. I was pregnant with my second daughter and got gestational diabetes...or so they thought. It never went away so I was diabetic all along and most likely with my first daughter who was 9 pounds 5 ounces. I feel like I have a lot of health issues and I am only 33. The PMDD was diagnosed at 20 and I got the diabetes by age 29. Funny, but in college I could not make it in between meals. I had constant unregulated blood sugar and would practically pass out.

[Liberation Angel]

66. Definitely check out the Mary Shomon site

you never know if it can help unless you give it a try.

Do you live in or near one of the areas I mentioned?

The tests will not pick up exposure to these toxins and cannot assess the actual use of thyroid hormones in your blood (so the alternative tests and even the self tests can be very useful in diagnosis if you find a practitioner who is familiar with these. The site has links to local doctors who know about this stuff.

You might even get some better relief.

When you are ready for that it may help.

Peace

LA

[DireStrike]

42. Thank you. I will definitely look into it.

I'd heard about hypothyroidism before but never have I heard the symptoms.

All my life I have been prone to having a sore throat. I'd go in for a throat culture and it was often negative. My arms and hands are often very cold. I attributed this to my body shape (skinny everywhere except the torso) causing some sort of weird temperature distribution compromise. I think I get sick more than average.

I have had some success with antidepressants. There is definitely a large difference between being on them and not. But, like you say, everything has a million contributing causes. I hope this information turns out to help. Thank you for sharing it.

[Liberation Angel]

53. Cool (lol) good luck

the temperature thing is pretty much a sure bet.

At my kids school next to a nuke plant the school nurse said practically every kid in the school had low body temperatures when they came in claiming to be sick. She just thought the thermometers were screwed up.

[Liberation Angel]

54. SSRI "withdrawal" symptoms and suffering (info with link)

http://bipolar.about.com/cs/antidep/a/0207_ssridisc1.htm

yeah - we went through this several times (out of money, lost our insurance, no doctor, no prozac or zoloft). It was hell. Worse than the depression before the drug.

It was worse than a heroin withdrawal.

Carefully monitored with support and altrnatives it can be done but anyone around this stuff should be aware of this.

It is why so may NEVER get off them (when they could with the right treatment and help)

[yearning_4_zion_IL]

64. Thank you for mentioning one possibility for depression/anxiety!

There are a slew of them which MAY be helped by simply eschewing the food item/substance. I was reading a book called "Caffeine Blues" and the author claims that some people with anxiety disorder get prescribed Xanax-type pills when coffee is the actual culprit. Coffee, being a diuretic, also causes water-soluble vitamins like B-complex to be eliminated. B-complex vitamins are needed for a healthy nervous system, as well as maintaining good moods.

[Liberation Angel]

67. It is really important to get the right balance in diet but also...

it is critical to cover all the bases in determining the causes as opposed to only treating the symptoms.

If you can eliminate the causes or remediate the harm then you may improve.

Most MD's though seem to think there is nothing else to be done except to pass out pills and recommend therapy which is unaffordable for most.

I am not opposed to pills (and strongly support the thyroid supplement RX) but some cover up the problem and may exacrbate the problems while others can address the underlying cause and make the other medications (hich have serious side effects) unnecessary.

Personally Li love my coffee and need it, but I know if I have too much it makes me feel awful in the short term. I try to supplement but even that can be pricey.

Good diet nd moderation is the key i think.