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Did Waterboarding Actually Work?- Just-released CIA documents don't back up Dick Cheney's claims.

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:15 PM
Original message
Did Waterboarding Actually Work?- Just-released CIA documents don't back up Dick Cheney's claims.
Source: Newsweek

Did Waterboarding Actually Work?

Just-released CIA documents don't back up Dick Cheney's claims.

By Mark Hosenball | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Aug 25, 2009 | Updated: 6:01 p.m. ET Aug 25, 2009

Internal CIA reports released by the Obama administration on Monday suggest that former vice president Dick Cheney was right about one thing: the CIA's interrogations of suspected terrorists provided U.S. authorities with precious inside information about Al Qaeda's leadership, structure, personnel, and operations. In fact, the newly released evidence—some of which Cheney had pushed to make public—suggests that detainees provided so much detailed information, CIA personnel conducting the interrogations were under pressure to squeeze prisoners even harder in hopes of getting more.

What the newly declassified material does not convincingly demonstrate, however, is that Cheney is right when he insists that it was the agency's use of "enhanced interrogation techniques"—including sleep deprivation, stress positions, violent physical contact, and waterboarding—that produced this useful information. In fact, though two of the newly released CIA reports offer examples of the kind of details that detainees surrendered, the reports do not say what information came as a result of harsh interrogation methods and what came from conventional questioning.

Another key document released Monday was a long-suppressed CIA inspector-general report on possible detainee abuse. It claims, with only vague details, that in the cases of three of the earliest "high value" Qaeda suspects subjected to CIA questioning, the use of "enhanced" methods got results. For example, the document says that the number of intelligence reports generated from the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, an early CIA captive, "increased" after the detainee was waterboarded 83 times. But the report doesn't say precisely what information he gave up before or after being harshly interrogated. So, based on this evidence, it is impossible to tell whether waterboarding and other brutal methods really were more effective than nonviolent techniques in extracting credible, useful information from Abu Zubaydah or other detainees.

Likewise, supporters of the harsh techniques have repeatedly pointed to the interrogation of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as an example of the effectiveness of harsh methods. The inspector general's report says that Mohammed "provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard," and much of it was outdated or wrong. Bush administration officials have claimed that after Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, he started to talk and gave interrogators a wealth of credible information that helped thwart other attacks. In July 2004 the agency's analytical branch issued a secret report titled "Khalid Shaykh Muhammad: Preeminent Source on Al-Qaeda." It names alleged Qaeda operatives, inside the U.S. and overseas, whom KSM identified to U.S. authorities, and enumerates specific plots that KSM told interrogators he was planning. But the paper, which was one of the documents released this week, offers no breakdown of which pieces of this information KSM provided before or after being subjected to waterboarding and other rough treatment.

Read more: http://www.newsweek.com/id/213620
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. It was the CIA's inspector general who warned it would not work. nt
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. 'but it worked' is not a defense or an excuse for war crimes
There are no exceptions to our treaty obligations that allow for 'torture that works'.
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prostomulgus Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's right, it doesn't matter if it worked or not, it's wrong either way
If it didn't work, it was unnecessary torture.

If it did work, we could have obtained the info without torture.

In either case, torture is ALWAYS wrong and those who commit it should ALWAYS be prosecuted.

It's just that simple.
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cheney is not upset by the redactions.
He only reads between the lines anyway. Hell, he wrote most of what is between the lines. :grr:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. We have reliable reports that IT DIDN'T WORK at all.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 10:41 PM by EFerrari
Cheney is just counting on our five minutes memory.

Remember this?

NO Actionable Intell Gained From Torture

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5517172
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Made it worse....counterproductive, unlawful, unwise....Bush sullied our Nation no end
GOP Paying heavy price for backing major Stupidity....

Amazing they seem to repeat boo boos made in earlier skirmishes...

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. Let's just ask if rape works? If murder works? If abusing your child works?
"Did waterboarding torture work?"

Sick fucking nation to even ask that question. To even consider it as a possibility.

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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. Never mind whether or not it worked
- quite simply it's usage was illegal and as such anyone instrumental in using it or recommending its use may be looking forward to conspiracy chrges at the very least. Some details here : http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6387702
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. Anyone who thinks Cheney is telling the truth doesn't know Dick n/t
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You know, that would make a good t-shirt slogan! eom
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Let's try it on Cheney and see how well it works.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. On the one hand, on the other hand
On the one hand, we have the evidence saying one thing. On the other hand, we have one of the perpetrators saying just the opposite. Who are you going to believe? The popular media can't tell! There's no objective standard that could possibly be applied to determine who might be telling the truth.
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