Larry Johnson: "I love the smell of perjury in the morning. Scooter may get some bunk mates."

[ProSense]

More Obstruction of Justice?

by
Larry C Johnson

News that White House staffers, which includes Karl Rove and Scooter Libby, used RNC email accounts in order to avoid the scrutiny that normally comes with the White House email account raises an interesting question--Did Patrick Fitzgerald know this? It appears the answer is no.

If that is the case then we are looking at the potential for new obstruction of justice in the Valerie Plame case. Why? For starters there are the subpoenas the White House received in 2003. They were required to turn over all emails relating to the Valerie Plame case, not just White House emails. Just when you thought the Plame case was at a dead end it looks like the hubris of the Republicans have given it new life. Karl Rove may get frog marched yet.

UPDATE: Here's the link for what the Department of Justice told the White House to produce and preserve. The White House was told to preserve:

ALL DOCUMENTSFROM FEBRUARY 2002 TO JANUARY 23 2004 INCLUSIVE INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ALL ELECTRONIC RECORDS WRITTEN RECORDS TELEPHONE RECORDS OF ANY KIND INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY DOCUMENTS THAT MEMORIALIZE TELEPHONE CALLS HAVING BEEN MADE CORRESPONDENCE COMPUTER RECORDS EMAIL STORAGE DEVICES NOTES WHETHERHANDWRITTEN OR TYPED OR IN ANY OTHER FORMAT MEMORANDA AND DIARY AND CALENDAR ENTRIES IN THE Q119
POSSESSION OF THE OFFICE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT ITS STAFF AND EMPLOYEES CONCERNING ANY DISCUSSION OF THE FOLLOWING ...

I love the smell of perjury in the morning. Scooter may get some bunk mates.

[myrna minx]

1. I am so glad that Larry Johnson has weighed in on this.

This changes the whole dynamic.

[WiseButAngrySara]

11. It does indeed. Is it up to Fitz to do something about it, or

can the Plames do it independently?

[myrna minx]

17. Fitzgerald's investigation was never closed, rather

it was put in ice unless additional information came to light. This definitely falls under his purview. This will defiantly augment the Wilson's case, too. This is deliberate obstruction of justice. The use of outside email servers and then "losing" the data is the closest thing he have had to proving intent, which is very difficult to prove. This is huge, imho.

[WiseButAngrySara]

21. So it's NOT closed. So glad to hear about this. Even if Fitz's

hands are tied in some way, the Plames can still use this in a Civil suit no doubt.

[myrna minx]

29. The case is not closed.

Fitzgerald basically slipped in a bookmark and put down the book. He stated that he would continue to investigate if any new information came to light. In this thread below, there is a discussion about whether or not Fitzgerald knew of the RNC email accounts. The plot thickens...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x636836

[tiptoe]

37. plus Fitz awaits Libby's response to approaching sentencing nt

[leveymg]

30. That order was to VP staff, not addressed to Rove.

Larry Johnson quotes from a memo from David Addington to staff members of Office of the Vice President (OVP). Addington's memo is page 8 of 35 within the PDF file. As I read it, the actual DOJ Order -- pages 4 and 5 of the PDF file -- and Addington's memo is addressed to OVP, not Executive Office of the President (EOP). Rove works for EOP.

Rove is not a member of the OVP. He is not otherwise named in the Order or the memo.


As much as I would love to see Rove nailed, this does not seem to provide the hammer.

[myrna minx]

31. But did Rove lie to investigators about his correspondence through

the RNC email servers (either directly or through omission) and did Libby turn over his own correspondence from the RNC server during discovery? This adds to the many questions that points to perjury and obstruction, imho.

[leveymg]

32. Maybe. But, these subpoenas don't apply to Rove.

There may be other subpoenas that applied specifically to Rove. As to whether he complied fully in producing copies of all his e-mails, one can only speculate.

Presumably, any subpoena to Rove would have required him to turn over all his e-mails on all WH servers, not just the ones used for "official business".

This raises a very good question, where are the Rove subpoenas?

[Crabby Appleton]

39. You are correct nt

[mmonk]

2. Scooter should get bunkmates. No sense in him being all alone.

[WinkyDink]

20. I hope it's a big guy named "Bear".

Karl-a can stay next door.

[Sydnie]

3. Pleasse, oh please let this negate any deal Rove may have made

Let's have a real show trial and bring him up on charges this time. Goodness only knows where that might lead!

Oh please, oh please, oh please let it be so!

[aquart]

8. Oh, that would be nice. Very nice.

[aquart]

4. Oh my. They lied.

I would be so happy to have Fitzgerald back on this case.

[myrna minx]

5. I think this would constitute "new information."

I'll wager that we have not seen the last of Mr. Fitzgerald regarding this case.

[fooj]

26. I'll double that wager!

:bounce:

[speedoo]

6. And as WH counsel at the time, Mr. Gonzales took his time in....

implementing that DOJ directive, did he not?

And he also let people in the WH know about the directive several days ahead of actually beginning the collection process as well.

Yeah, this has legs.

[malaise]

7. Bushco is going to get caught

They will go down. America is fed up and angry.

[Patsy Stone]

9. And from TPM within the links

In total 1984 form, call it the exact opposite of what it is:

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002998.php

"According to Mr. Kelner, the RNC had a policy, which the RNC called a "document retention" policy, that purged all e-mails from RNC e-mail accounts and the RNC server that were more than 30 days old."

[OneGrassRoot]

10. I'd love to hear H20Man's thoughts on this new twist. Yoohoo! n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

12. Me too! Callling H2OMan !!!!! ....n/t

[never cry wolf]

15. Here ya go, H2OMan on a different thread, similar topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x636836

"Did Fitz know about the OTHER computers?"

[WiseButAngrySara]

23. Thanks NCW! Going to check it out now! ....n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

13. KNR for Justice. ....n/t

[Annces]

14. Perjury for Rove

I hope Fitzgerald is not hog-tied on this in some way.

[WiseButAngrySara]

16. You mean the case might be closed for good? ....n/t

[Annces]

18. No, it just seems that

the White House might have claimed some special privilege. How are we to know?

[WiseButAngrySara]

22. I sure hope not! See post #17 above on this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=638728&mesg_id=639202

[myrna minx]

19. Kick. n/t

[lovuian]

24. If this is right then I predict that Fitz will come here and

get these computers
He's still an Independent Counsel and he still has the right a Grand Jury needs to be started up again
Scooter will be having jail buddies

[Pachamama]

25. Larry Johnson is absolutely correct: The original Subpoenas didn't say "only emails and electronic

communications originating from White House systems"....

It also specifically states "All documents....inclusive BUT NOT LIMITED TO" related to the Plame topic....

Yes, I do believe that the "new information" has come to light....

[garybeck]

27. Prediction: Fitz will do nothing about this.

I'm sorry, I'm just not on the Fitz bandwagon anymore. I think he had plenty of opportunities to do more than he did. I don't think this will get him to reopen the case. I hope I'm wrong.

[orleans]

28. i also have the "glass half empty" syndrome

and i'm wondering what the hell is up with him if he doesn't do anything about it?

and if he knew about these other servers before then why didn't he do something about it then?

[garybeck]

34. What would Ken Starr do?

I believe if Ken Starr was in his shoes, there would be more people in jail right now, including Karl Rove.

Based on the track record, I do not think Fitzgerald will do anything at all about this "revelation."

[EVDebs]

33. Beware. WH and DOJ computer systems are on Ptech software

Ptech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptech

and

Dollars of terror
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730

The potential for subpoenas on blackberrys is possible too but the company servers are located in Canada. Let's hope the CIA's links to Ptech, and the Canadian CSIS et al

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/canada/index.html

aren't running interference for a domestic black op that went bad and needs shut down--that is, a CIA/GOP money connection, revealed in the Lam investigation, but now shut down by the Bush administration's and related hangers on in the CIA's, cover-up and obstructions of justice.

[cascadiance]

35. Hope this day is getting closer!

[cascadiance]

36. Self delete...

Duplicate from server error or something...

[Octafish]

38. Kick to the pants of the warmongering traitors...

Thanks for a most important article, ProSense.
Larry Johnson is one good Republican.
Hope we can help make him an ex-Republican and a good Democrat.