Man cleared by DNA after spending 21-years in prison for rape-murder

[madmusic]

To date, over 240 wrongly convicted people nationwide have had their convictions overturned by DNA evidence. In Connecticut, Ireland was the third person whose convictions were overturned because DNA evidence proved they were innocent.

Also on Wednesday, Aug. 19, the conviction of Ralph Armstrong was overturned in Wisconsin when DNA evidence proved he was innocent. Armstrong was framed for the murder by his brother, Steve, who actually confessed to the 1980 killing of 19-year old University of Wisconsin-Madison student Charise Kamps. Because Dane County Assistant DA John Norsetter liked Ralph Armstrong for the crime, and believed he had enough circumstantial evidence to convict, he did not test the DNA material at the crime scene. Had he done so, he would have learned that Ralph Armstrong was innocent. But, his job was not finding suspects innocent, his job was finding them guilty. Even if they were innocent.

http://www.jonchristianryter.com/News_Folder/Behind.html

[greguganus]

1. Good thing he wasn't put to death like some on here advocate. n/t

[WonderGrunion]

2. Based on the refusal to test DNA at the time,

he never should have been convicted.

[Mariana]

34. His defense attorney should have had the test done.

I wonder why he/she didn't.

[madmusic]

3. They can blame the criminal-loving bleeding-heart liberal court for

taking the death penalty off the table. I assume you are talking about the rape of 7-year-old autistic girl thread, which I started reading after posting this. The scariest part is most calling for the death penalty don't qualify it with "if he is guilty." You know, as if guilt matters. A news report is proof enough.

Anger and rage is understandable, fascist pigism and contempt for the Constitution is not.

[WonderGrunion]

7. I'm probably the most prolific poster on that thread right now

And I have always said "if proven he is guilty". I even advocate a higher standard of proof to apply the death penalty. But that also means I'm not anti death penalty.

[ieoeja]

10. But what higher standard would apply?

Suppose the evidence in the *this* (not the other) OP case had included Ralph's DNA on the victim's panties. Would that have been enough proof to warrant the death penalty in this case?

[MattBaggins]

12. the higher standard is very simple

First is how much does the victim tug on your heart strings or trigger your guilt complex.

Second is how much does the perp set off your creepdar.

That's all there is to it.

[WonderGrunion]

17. Probably not

I use the Polly Klaas case as a good example. The offender in that case in his final statement to the court boasted about his transgression and openly taunted the family. In cases like that where you have an unrepentant monster, I say kill him.

[Politicalboi]

21. Yes her and 6 year old Samanth Runnion

They had her tears in his car, and his sperm, his tire tracks, and his skin under her nails. I say kill the Bastard now. No appeal, no early release, just kill him. And I think family members should be able to choose how the monster dies if they want. Why let the killer take the easy way out. Don't let him know how he is going to die till he gets there.:woohoo:

I think 4 to 5 points of your DNA says it all at a crime scene. And I mean sperm, blood, skin, hair, finger prints, fibers. I'm all for DNA being checked for ALL cases with DNA to be sure. Child killers have no sympathy with me at all. Same goes for Pedophiles. I think they deserve the DP or life in prison if proven.

[ieoeja]

24. Your answer is much better than WonderGrunion's.

You cite an awful lot of evidence. You really seem to get off on the idea of killing people, but at least you gave an example where the guilt is pretty doubtless.

All WonderGrunion cites is an unrepentant confession. That is actually a horribly *low* standard, not high. One may recall Jon Benet Ramsey's killer bragging about killing her as well. Only it turned out the wasn't the killer. Just a nutjob obsessed by the case.


But at least neither of you fell for my "trap". A lot of death penalty advocates are suckers for DNA evidence. Rigging evidence with someone else's DNA is so simple ... even a policeman can do it. Had he answered "yes", my followup would have been to offer him some water, then wipe the bottle on the girl's panties. I then have all the DNA evidence I need to "prove" Wonder Gunion is a child rapist.

I was a death penalty advocate before over 50% of the folks on death row in Illinois had their convictions overturned. And it really did not hit me until it made that magic number where the majority of people on death row had their convictions overturned. Probably helped that I was watching that 50+%er released -- and his was one of the cases where he was proven innocent -- in a bar full of cops who were frothing at the mouth that this innocent man was getting out of jail. All the evidence proving his innocence didn't matter. They still felt he should be executed.

[WonderGrunion]

26. That may be all I cited, but it's hardly all the evidence involved

in that case. There was NO doubt that Richard Davis raped and killed Polly Klaas. He lead the police to a remote shallow grave in the woods where he buried her. He described in his confession how he killed her in ways that were not in the public record. His DNA matched completely and he arrogantly told the court in his final statement that Polly begged him "not to do me like my dad" just to anger the father in hopes he would be attacked in court to force a mistrial.

Richard Davis is a monster of a human being that should be removed from this earth. He is on death row right now and has been for the last 13 years.

I actually respect the argument that innocent people getting executed should limit the application of the death penalty. But some crimes are too heinous and some convicts too unrepentant too be allowed to live.

[madmusic]

32. Using Davis as a death penalty poster boy works well, but....

The voters are unrepentant of the Three Strikes law though someone who never committed a violent crime can get 25-to-life despite http://fugitive.com/archives/7825">Deputy Sheriff James Council Who Killed 2 Bicyclists Sentenced to House Arrest and Community Service. That's OK, the deputy was repentant and none of the 25-to-lifers are.

[madmusic]

30. Having that on film would be Gold

"Probably helped that I was watching that 50+%er released -- and his was one of the cases where he was proven innocent -- in a bar full of cops who were frothing at the mouth that this innocent man was getting out of jail. All the evidence proving his innocence didn't matter. They still felt he should be executed."

[ieoeja]

36. "Just look at him! He looks like garbage."

"So you would kill him for the way he looks?"

"Guaranteed he'll just kill another person."

"'Another person?' He hadn't killed ANYONE. That is why they are releasing him."

"They proved he didn't kill this victim. They didn't prove he didn't kill anyone else."

"Why do you say that?"

"Look at the fucking nigger!!! He looks like a fucking gangbanger."

"He has also spent the past decade in jail. What do you think he's going to look like? The cover of GQ?"


Yeah, cops are real hoot.

[Vickers]

33. "over 50% of the folks on death row in Illinois had their convictions overturned"

Seriously? I knew there were some, but OVER HALF?

:wow:

[ieoeja]

35. Seriously. That fact is what shocked me out of my death penalty support.

You'd think I would have figured out something was wrong when it was, say, one less than half? But psychologically it just did not register until it hit that magic number.

[madmusic]

22. Killing isn't good enough

It was also necessary to pass the Three Strikes law so someone with two 25-year-old burglaries and a 20-year-old petty theft could get 25-to-life for a new petty theft for stealing a loaf of bread.

This was supposed to be a reply to Politicalboi.

[ieoeja]

25. When the first 3-Strikes Law passed in California, you could get life for the FIRST conviction.

It was written so that three qualifying convictions were enough. So if you (1) used a deadly weapon in (2) committing a robbery at which you (3) tied up the store clerk before leaving, then you managed to roll-up all three strikes in your first arrest.

In fact, the NRA successfully sued the state of California when the state failed to apply 3-Strikes sentencing to a man for his first conviction.

That was about the time I decided to drop my NRA membership. I realized they had become more about Rightist crap than civil rights.

[madmusic]

11. But "if found guilty" has its own problems

Visit the Innocence Project and see the causes of wrongful convictions if you haven't already.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

It becomes obvious that "if found guilty" means find someone guilty even if innocent. In other words, satisfy the public bloodlust even if it results in wrongful convictions. I don't think prosecutors would prosecute wrongful convictions without this moral climate. First should come due process, and then the satisfaction of bloodlust. Trial by media gets it backwards.

[WonderGrunion]

18. I'm a huge supporter of Barry Scheck and the innocence project

I remember first seeing them on an episode of Donahue back in the 1980's. He's the main reason I give the benefit of the doubt to OJ and Louise Woodward (from the Matthew Eappon case).

[redqueen]

6. Yep.

I wonder if any of those bloodlusting rageaholics will see this OP and put 2 & 2 together.

[WonderGrunion]

8. I jumped right in here

And I have no problem defending the application of the death penalty in extremely limited conditions.

[SidDithers]

31. Nail on the fucking head...nt

Sid

[Evoman]

4. Fuckers should have been killed with cattle prods. Then we wouldn't have had to pay

for them to stay in jail. They ate and lived off our dime!!!! If we had succumbed to our rage years ago, then they never would have wasted our money. Can't do those damn DNA tests without the guy still being alive!

[MattBaggins]

13. This entire post must be a lie

ALL convicted sex criminals get tortured and killed in jail. It is impossible for this guy to have survived. If he did he must have been tortured non stop and we would have been doing him a favor if we had murdered him 20 years ago.

[greguganus]

14. Ding ding ding! n/t

[Evoman]

15. Who lied? Did someone lie. Leave me in a room with the liar, a 2 liter of coke, and the Best Hits

of Yanni.

We'll see who is lying!

[madmusic]

19. He was cleared posthumously.

Better than nothing, maybe.

[WonderGrunion]

20. You're right of course.

Prison was so pleasant for him, I'm surprised he tried to get out. :eyes:
The other thread has already been locked, do we really need to continue this argument here?

[bobbolink]

5. Yet, our "liberal" Supreme Court says DNA evidence doesn't have to be heard.

Ain't it wunnderful to live in such a "free" society?

[madmusic]

9. For those who don't know....

I assume you mean this: "Court rejects DNA access claim"

Splitting 5-4, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that an individual whose criminal conviction has become final does not have a constitutional right to gain access to evidence so that it can be subjected to DNA testing to try to prove innocence. This was one of four final rulings the Court issued Thursday, leaving ten remaining.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/court-rejects-dna-access-claim/

[noiretextatique]

23. unbelievable

but not, given the monsters on the court. why let innocence get in the way of a conviction? unfuckingreal.

[Selatius]

28. That's actually pretty frightening as a ruling. It's a legacy Bush left behind for us all. nt

[TexasObserver]

16. Recommend

[Heidi]

27. Recommended.

:kick:

[old mark]

29. This happens way too often - DA's egos and political wellbeing are on the line,

so a person they now KNOW is innocent stays in prison whele the guilty stay free.

Maybe time to re-think the DA's power?

mark

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

37. Armstrong should be charged 21 years worth of rent/food

Obviously, he wasn't guilty so the justice system (our tax dollars) should not be responsible for footing the bill.