A modest proposal: Start terminating treaties

[ClearPresentDanger]

"Although that may appear a close question upon first consideration, a careful reading of the Constitution reveals a clear answer: the President’s constitutional power in foreign affairs includes the power to terminate treaties."

http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/PubID.267/pub_detail.asp

"Article 2205: Withdrawal

A Party may withdraw from this Agreement six months after it provides written notice of withdrawal to the other Parties. If a Party withdraws, the Agreement shall remain in force for the remaining Parties."

http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/chap-22.asp#A2205

NAFTA. CAFTA. GATT and all 60 subtreaties. Camp David Accords.

I predict the leash holders of the recalicantrant congress people would be calling their representatives so fast that they would be spraining fingers.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. Which accomplishes what, exactly?

Except reinforcing the notion that we are not to be trusted as negotiating partners?

[ClearPresentDanger]

6. It would force the giant multinationals..who are the real power

to reconsider the wisdom of blocking health care reform. The six month notice would give them plenty of time to alert their congress people that yes, they would now like to see it pass. As well as every country in the world who wants to keep trade policy the way it is, which I think is most of them. Certainly China does.

Threatening to pull out of Camp David would motivate the Israel lobby, who I hear is very influential on capital hill. We'd also save about $6 billion a year, IIRC.

The point is, Obama can win this by himself without anybody else. He's a very gifted man but I get the sense he has not learned to work the levers of power yet. (Whatever else you can say about Dick Cheney, he was very good at that).

All he has to do is escalate.

I would recommend to him that he get Biden and Pelosi to publicly say that should Obama meet with an unfortunate accident, they will do their best to continue his policies. These acts will piss off the most powerful people in the world in the extreme, after all.

I also predict it will lead to a flood of jobs coming back to America, which most believe is a good thing. (The rich and powerful don't).

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. You're right. It's the Jews who are blocking health care reform.

And obviously magically getting rid of the Camp David accords (to which we were not even a party) is the solution.

[ClearPresentDanger]

17. wikipedia is your friend

"The agreement also resulted in the United States committing to several billion dollars worth of annual subsidies to the governments of both Israel and Egypt, subsidies which continue to this day, and are given as a mixture of grants and aid packages committed to purchasing U.S. materiel. From 1979 (the year of the peace agreement) to 1997, Egypt received military aid of US$1.3 billion annually, which also helped modernize the Egyptian military.<6> (This is beyond economic, humanitarian, and other aid, which has totaled more than US$25 billion.) Eastern-supplied until 1979, Egypt now received American weaponry such as the M1A1 Abrams Tank, AH-64 Apache gunship and the F-16 fighter jet. In comparison, Israel has received $3 billion annually since 1985 in grants and military aid packages.<7>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords"

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. I fail to see what any of that has to do with health care reform. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Damn where the hell is my secret government job?

by the way here is a FREE CLUE.

Camp David was negotiated wiht our help, but we are not party to the treaty between Egypt and Israel, but I am sure you knew that.

:banghead:

I knew we'd be blamed sooner or later, so damn fucking predictable.

By the way, we COULD in theory pull out of NAFTA, CAFTA et al, you also want us to pull out of NATO, OAS and the UN while we are at it?

[ClearPresentDanger]

47. please read the whole thread

I've all ready addressed your issues. There's a difference between a "treaty" and "accords".

[baldguy]

2. I can see the reasons for the economic treaties, but what's the problem with Camp David?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. He thinks Israel is blocking health care reform. n/t

[ClearPresentDanger]

13. Bullshit. Israel has influence

and I want to use it, that's all. Don't try the phony baloney anti semitic victim line.

[baldguy]

15. The US has less influence over Israel than you think.

But if you like Syria & Iran, you'll love Egypt without US aid.

[ClearPresentDanger]

16. Remember the line from "In Living Color?"

A mideast stuffed to the gills with US Dollars. A sudden, urgent need by all parties for lots of high tech weapons. We sell hight tech weapons. "How can I put this knowledge to work for me?"

Not that I endorse that. He doesn't have to let it get that far--he can renew the treaty without changing a line*.

My point is that he has plenty of room left to escalate. They pulled a knife, it's time for Obama to pull a gun.

(assuming congress sends him the exact same treaty..

And I'm not anti-semitic, just using Israel as a catspaw.

[sandnsea]

3. Like Bush did?

Why do people on this site keep demanding we act as badly as Republicans did. It's infuriating.

[Vincardog]

4. Like when w stood up and terminated the Geneva Conventions? NOT. dim son never stood up and did a

legitimate thing.
Obama can withdraw from NAFTA CAFTA and all the flat earth faux 'Free trade' deals and he should.
He won't because he is the master of the great compromise.
Too bad he refused to LEAD.

[sandnsea]

5. Selective amnesia exists on the left too

Arms Treaty? Kyoto negotiations? ICC negotiations? Bush walked away from all kinds of treaty negotiations.

Too bad you aren't president, right? The whole world would be in chaos in ten minutes.

[Vincardog]

7. Bush walked away from all kinds of treaty negotiations and he IGNORED the LAWS he did not like

Can you point to ONE thing he did legitimately? Or are you going to pretend that standing in the way of progress is a admirable act?

[sandnsea]

12. So why demand Obama do the same?

You either respect the legislative process or you don't.

[ClearPresentDanger]

14. You either respect the constitution or you don't.

If it's in the constitution, it's by definition legal and by definition the rules everybody knew everybody else was playing by.

[Vincardog]

19. Why do I want Obama to use his Constitutionally granted authority work for OUR benefit? OR

Why don't you see that w's unconstitutional acts do not in any way
relate to Obama's failure use his Constitutionally granted authority?

Jr ignored the treaties we are signatories to, that is not the same as notifying the other parties to those treaties that we are withdrawing from them.
GET IT?

[ClearPresentDanger]

24. No. please elaborate. nt

nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Because they're stupid. n/t

[GodlyDemocrat]

11. Newsflash: Obama is not Bush

This cowboy mentality has just got to stop in the United States.

Of course the far right would want us to withdraw from NAFTA, build a wall on the southern border, invade Mexico, and then arrest all American Hispanics.

[Vincardog]

20. I want to withdraw from NAFTA or at least renegotiate it to include enforceable respect for Labor an...

the environment. What part of the right does that place mo on in your world?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Uh, the OP wasn't about withdrawing from or renegotiating NAFTA for labor reasons.

It was about withdrawing from all kinds of treaties... in order to get health care reform. Because, by some depraved logic in the OP, this is a strategy that is bound to work.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. That will make the financial crisis exponentially worse

I'm not averse to re-examining our trade agreements. But unilaterally pulling out of them on a whim will have major economic ramifications.

And the Camp David Accords were an agreement between Israel and Egypt so we can't pull out of them. You might try reading a book so that you don't sound like a complete idiot when you post.

[ClearPresentDanger]

23. If you have evidence, produce it...

I have evidence that what we have done has got we where we are, called reality.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Again, we didn't sign the Camp David Accords

Israel and Egypt did. Don't post when you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[ClearPresentDanger]

27. wikipedia is your friend

"The agreement also resulted in the United States committing to several billion dollars worth of annual subsidies to the governments of both Israel and Egypt, subsidies which continue to this day, and are given as a mixture of grants and aid packages committed to purchasing U.S. materiel. From 1979 (the year of the peace agreement) to 1997, Egypt received military aid of US$1.3 billion annually, which also helped modernize the Egyptian military.<6> (This is beyond economic, humanitarian, and other aid, which has totaled more than US$25 billion.) Eastern-supplied until 1979, Egypt now received American weaponry such as the M1A1 Abrams Tank, AH-64 Apache gunship and the F-16 fighter jet. In comparison, Israel has received $3 billion annually since 1985 in grants and military aid packages.<7>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords "

[Hippo_Tron]

36. If you meant stopping aid subisidies then you should've said so

[ClearPresentDanger]

37. Is the profanity because you have embarrassed yourself?

""The agreement also resulted in the United States committing to several billion..."

Do you need me to cut your meat for you too?

[Hippo_Tron]

38. You said withdraw from the Camp David Accords

Which is not possible because we didn't sign the Camp David Accords. President Carter made agreements with Sadat and Begin to provide aid to their countries but the US did not sign nor ratify any treaty. The profanity is because you're spewing libertarian crap on a Democratic message board.

[ClearPresentDanger]

39. Look at this picture, who is the man in the middle, holding a fucking pen in his hand?

I swear they had to tattoo your name backwards on your forehead, so you can tell who you are in the mirror.

[Hippo_Tron]

41. lol, someone has a short fuse

[ClearPresentDanger]

42. Hardly. You admit defeat.

But at least you learned the difference between a treaty and accords, so you at least you showed some character growth. However small.

[Hippo_Tron]

43. lol, whatever you say

[ClearPresentDanger]

46. buh by. nt.

[ClearPresentDanger]

40. Hey dim bulb, check this out

"1979 Israeli-Egyptian Peace Treaty. The 1979 Camp David Peace Treaty
between Israel and Egypt ushered in the current era of U.S. financial support for
peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors. To facilitate a complete cessation of
hostilities and Israel’s return of the Sinai Peninsula, the United States provided a total
of $7.5 billion to both parties in 1979. The “Special International Security Assistance
Act of 1979” (P.L. 96-35) provided military and economic grants to Israel and Egypt
at a ratio of 3:2, respectively."

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

No go back and read your own words. Treaty, singular. Accords, plural. Dumbass, you.

[Deja Q]

25. Until the rest of the global economy can saver the United States, the crisis will return and worsen.

I do agree such treaties and agreements should be looked at carefully, refined, and used properly. Not necessarily axed by a whim.

But it can't be denied that many of those treaties helped lead to the catastrophe that has developed.

[ClearPresentDanger]

29. Thank you for agreeing

and he doesn't have to ax them, just the threat should be enough.

[slackmaster]

28. Let's kick the Navajo off the reservation and build a resort there

For starters.


































:sarcasm:

[ClearPresentDanger]

32. Help me out, I don't understand what you mean

Even with the sarcasm tag I don't get it.

[slackmaster]

34. If we stop we were to honoring one treaty, all others would be less secure

It would set a bad precedent. Even if that power was used only for causes you and I might consider good, a future government might use such a move as justification for backing out of a treaty that we might like.

Not to mention what it would do to our credibility in the eyes of other nations.

[ClearPresentDanger]

35. ahaha, like we broke the treaties with the Indians. Not the same at all.

The treaties have a provision for withdrawl, agreed to by all parties in advance. If you look at my original post, I give you the provision from NAFTA. And a link. Would you like me to chew your food for you too?

[pipoman]

30. For reasons not related to health care reform

I believe it is long overdue, and Obama could make great strides if, for once, a US President demanded labor reform in Central America in general and Mexico in particular. NAFTA gives the US that ability. NAFTA screwed US workers who were told that Mexico would soon be forced to improve the standard of living of their people...it hasn't happened nor has there been any movement toward improvement. Every summit between the NAFTA partners results in more placation of the corrupt Mexican government, blame taking for all the problems in Mexico by the US, and agreements requiring the US to attempt to fix the unfixable problems exacerbated by the overt corruption of the Mexican government.

[ClearPresentDanger]

31. Candidate Obama did promise to re-negotiate NAFTA, but

but he backpedaled the next day IIRC.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[RB TexLa]

44. Our current president has stated he plans to improve America's relation with the world not isolate

us from the world.

[ClearPresentDanger]

48. I agree. My point is that he can do these things, not that he will

I'm afraid the man I voted for is turning more into the Centrist-in-Chief every day.