the health care and wait time thing

[d_r]

OK, I know that the statistics show that wait times in the US are as long or longer as those in other countries, with the exception that wait times for elective surgeries are shorter in the US.

But that bit of reality doesn't keep people from bringing up the argument that wait times are too long in Canada or the UK, or bringing up some hear say story about somebody they know from the UK who likes health care here better, and so on.

What I need help thinking through is this. When they say they are against universal health coverage because it will make wait times too long, are they really saying that what they want is for some people not to have access to health care so that they don't have to wait in a longer "line?" I mean, isn't that really what they are saying, that they would rather that a lot of people don't have access to health care so that they don't have to wait in "line" behind them?

I'm having a hard time thinking that people are that selfish, but is that the bottom line on that one? As long as I get mine, screw the other guy?

[slipslidingaway]

1. What else could it mean, I suppose one could say that people

are scared they will lose their access, but if we were all in the same pool fighting together then we have a better chance of making the system a success.

[FLDCVADem]

3. I can't speak for other plans

But with our current insurance (Aetna, had it for 5 years) we've never had to wait more than a day to see a specialist, have a procedure (MRI, x-ray, etc).

I really don't see how adding 47 million people to the line can do anything but increase wait times. Not that I'm against adding them, but I do think it's obvious that wait times will increase.

[slipslidingaway]

4. We have no problem accessing doctors or procedures either,

but I'm willing to "give that up" for a Medicare for All program.

[havocmom]

2. as ugly as it is:A) Yes some people ARE that selfish and B) the delivery system is broken

There are still the same amount of doctors. The doctors are spread too thin and spend too little time with individuals to actually provide real care.

Doctors who give up the fight for private practice and move to larger clinics seem to be under massive pressure to see as many people in a day as is humanly possible. The Corporations get more head count so more money? It's turning into McMedicine with medical corporations getting the profit for the volume.

We aren't getting reliable medical care. It's all about getting the herd through and bills sent.

Those who don't want reform are either all about the profit, or selfish fools being played by the profiteers.

Doctors and patients seem to be SOL as things stand now.

[irislake]

5. You're having a hard time believing people are that selfish?

Believe me they are that selfish and worse. But they are the noisy, extreme right-wing minority. Most folks are decent but they aren't noisy about it.

[Lagomorph]

6. Extreme examples of the price of waiting...

are floating around. Some illnesses are time critical and many of us are simply used to getting prompt treatment.

Myself, I've been going to clinics for years. My doctor may make an appointment for diagnostics, but it may be weeks or months before I get seen for things like X-Rays or a CAT scan.

[imdjh]

9. I have Humana and there is lag time, but not much

and not all that different from when I had good insurance.

When I had a nondescript pain in my foot, I got it xrayed the next day. When I had good insurance, they would have done it in the office. When I needed an ultrasound, it was a couple of days, but it wasn't something where days mattered.

The only thing that Humana tries to do that I simply will not put up with is having to go to someplace like Smith-Kline labs to have blood work. It's an inconsiderate waste of my time, and I don't like going to a place that doubles as a drug-enforcement facility for employers and the courts.

[imdjh]

7. What they believe is that the current system works best and the alternative is India

They grudgingly accept that the indigent and the uninsured are seen on demand for emergency medicine.

They assume that the indigent and uninsured have access to some sort of clinic type regular, routine, and preventative health care but they don't really care about this since the indigent and uninsured can get on demand critical care.

They believe that their father, "who never went to a doctor in his entire life" either did that out of principle, suffered no ill effects for it, or couldn't have been saved if he had.

They believe that their preferred status and lifelong participation in existing private and public programs earns them on demand service while also paying for on demand service for the indigent or uninsured but through different doors. In essence, they believe that THEY are the golden goose ( and this included career military people who are quick to insist that they have earned their socialized benefits regardless of who is paying for them).

And they fear that if we go to a different system, any change whatsoever, they will have to wait in clinic and hospital waiting rooms with the great unwashed (literally), places out of a movie like some public hospital in Brooklyn in the 1930's, and that they will have no STATUS in that situation. They will not be in a position to complain or demand.

[SmileyRose]

8. My uncle has the absolute best medical insurance money can buy in the US

and waited 2 months to get an appointment with the specialist, then waited another 5 weeks before the surgeon could schedule him for the MRI, then waited another 3 weeks for followup with the surgeon, then waited another 7 weeks for the knee replacement.

All of it cost him $10 per office visit, $5 for prescriptions, no deductable whatsoever.

[abumbyanyothername]

10. That's what it means.

Keep in mind when arguing health care that it will be possible for anyone to come up with a single, anecdotal, bad result under any system.

[d_r]

11. Thank you for the replies

We (family of four) have good health care coverage. My wife is an RN. Our pediatrician is a family friend so we can just call up and get a prescription or whatever if the kids need something. I understand that most people can't do that. On the flip side, when we have had to have a specialist like a pediatric GI we had to make an appointment a couple of months away. We live in a medium sized city where there is only one or two of those. Also, almost every time we go to someone besides our pediatrician (honestly, he doesn't bill us) they turn down the payment. We have to call around and keep calling and get it recoded and eventually they will pay it. One time, I had a spot on my arm. A friend who is a physician biopsied it during lunch hour, and sent it to the lab with my insurance for the lab results. That drove the insurance company crazy, because they didn't get a bill from the physician. So they wouldn't pay the lab. I told my friend to just sock it to them. My wife had an emergency appendectomy - we called to check with the insurance company that the hospital and emergency room were covered - but then they didn't want to cover the surgery because the physician at the ER wasn't in their network.

My wife works in the ICU. They have been getting swamped with people who have gotten laid off, lost their health coverage, can't afford insulin, and now are in the ICU. So we all know that costs $1,000s and those costs get passed on, or the people get bankrupted and then those costs get passed on. That's a stupid system right there.

[Lagomorph]

13. Yup, and then play it up for all it's worth.

[OHdem10]

12. Lou Dobbs found US has longer wait times than many other countries

Elective Surgery wait time is shorter in the US. He has spent
this week covering the different Health Systems around the world.