I just realized something ..... when I was a younger person, the word 'Christian" was, for me, .....

[Stinky The Clown]

........ a blanket term that was used to differentiate people of various religions based on the life of Jesus from Jews and Muslims, and Shintos and Buddhists, and ..... and ..... and .....

And, logically, it still does.

But now there's an added dimension. The visceral one. The reflexive response inside me when I hear the word. It is not unlike when I hear the word "terrorist" .... or "criminal" ....... it has a decidedly negative feel to it, deep inside me.

It never used to be this way. It is a pity that it has come to this.

[RagAss]

1. Agreed. Once they hijacked the cross, it was easy for them to make the rules up.

[CurtEastPoint]

2. Me, too! Sadly, it conjures up big hair, bigotry and hypocrisy.

I know that's unfair but most of them have bandied about that term until it has been sullied.

[Political Heretic]

3. Me too. And that strikes me as really sad because I've always been a spiritual apologist...

...by that I mean, I'm not part of the anti-religion crowd, in terms of spirituality (though I don't have much taste for organized religious institutions.) My natural inclination is to defend those who practice and to suggest a world in which a spiritual interpretation is both possible and sane.

However, what has gone on in my life time in the name of "Christian" has left me feeling the same way. Now, when I here the word, my first reaction is an intense negative, and I have to compensate for bias and remind myself that not all people who call themselves Christians are bad.... many are even leftists.

[donco6]

4. Ugh, me too.

It must have been a good thing once. Maybe.

[crazy_vanilla]

5. I know many good Christians

But we made a family decision to leave the church and its doctrine because we couldn't in good conscience accept a multitude of things that were happening. In addition to historical research which led us to a certain conclusion. We are never going back.

It's ugly out there.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Same here.

I know that not all "Christians" are hateful, right-wing wack jobs (in fact, most of them aren't), but those that are have given the whole religion a very bad rep as far as I'm concerned. I was raised in a mainstream Christian church; I wasn't really a true believer, but I always liked at least the ethical component of basic Christian theology -- but in recent years I haven't even wanted to set foot in a church or identify myself in any way with Christians. Now they creep me out. Jesus wouldn't recognize that lot.

[baldguy]

7. When I was a younger person, Christians acted like Christians.

That is, try did their best to emulate the life of Jesus Christ. There may have been some small differences among the various sects, but in general they were honest, upright & trustworthy if they were church-going folk.

I guess honesty & unseaworthiness went out the window over the last 40 yrs.

[ThomCat]

24. Did they?

Or was the bad behavior just more acceptable to everyone?

While the civil rights movement was organized out of black churches, bigotry of all kinds was perpetuated out of most churches.

While some churches supported the poor and the weak, a lot of churches catered to power. They preached American Exceptionalism, the idea that God loves us more than the people in other nations, and therefore it's okay to do horrible things in those nations. We act in the name of God.

I think that we now have so much media saturation that we are just more AWARE that some people are displeased with religion. The disaffected aren't isolated anymore. We hear about each other, talk to each other, and aren't alone like we would have been in the past.

[progressoid]

25. Naw, they didn't. eom

[Arugula Latte]

8. Agree totally. It has a very negative connoctation for me. nt

[undeterred]

9. Whenever I hear of a "Christian" business

I want nothing to do with them. I am a Christian but those kind of Christians annoy the hell out of me.

[SharonAnn]

11. Unfortunately, my experience with "Christian" businesses has usually not been good.

[donco6]

22. I see a fish, and it's off the list. n/t

[eeyore]

38. William Burroughs - "Never do business with a Christian son of a bitch..."

"Never do business with a religious son-of-a-bitch. His word ain't worth a shit -- not with the Good Lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal."
— William S. Burroughs

[Enrique]

10. we should fight against that, imo

what you describe is how I define hate, especially when you say "visceral." I don't see hate as some alien thing that only bad people feel, I see it as something we all have to fight against.

[sam sarrha]

12. i was raised in the Free Holiness Pentecostal church, forcing children to Pray Thru as punishment

is torture, among a long list of other bullshit, like teaching the Book of Revelation in Sunday school to 5 year olds, all we ever did was study Revelation, then Romans, then Acts, then repeat the 3.. all to reveal the truth of the end times.. i was a dedicated Atheist at age 6. i attempted to commit suicide rather than go to church again..

i sat in a dark closet and cursed god, i was brain washed into believing he'd strike me dead for that.. it didn't F'n work and i had to go to church. we went to church 3 times a week, would'a been 4 except the parents watched Ed Sullivan on tv that nite

i have nothing but contempt for religion..

[abq e streeter]

13. I thought of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference

and the fact that it was in the name of the teachings of Jesus that the Civil Rights movement came to be,and some of the greatest progressives in my lifetime lived and died for standing up for the poor and oppressed in the name of Jesus, including of course, Martin Luther King and Archbishop Oscar Romero. ( BTW, for the record, I am not a Christian, but remembering all the good that was done under Christian leadership when I was a young man). The hijacking of that religion by the right wing whackjobs is a national tragedy.

[LeftyMom]

26. The segregationists and their slaveholding ancestors justified themselves with the bible, too.

Religious beliefs rarely change behavior, they just allow people to create illogical justifications for their existing impulses, good or bad.

[Rob H.]

14. The two people I know who are most vocal

about how often they go to church are also two of the biggest assholes I've ever met. On top of that, I've caught both of them spreading blatant lies about people we work with more than once. I realize I can't base my attitude toward all religious people on how the two of them behave, but they aren't exactly helping religious people as a group look good.

Edited for clarity.

[MadMaddie]

15. Sadly I have to agree....

I went to the Seattle Hempfest this past weekend and there were tons of people there to check out the products and just enjoy the nice weather.

Lo and Behold who do you think was at the entrance with their "God Hates Homo signs", "God hates unmarried people having sex" etc....Yep that's right, the crazy Christia loons.... why don't they go do some real Christian like acts...like help the needy, etc....

[rurallib]

16. christian once equated to good for me. Now it means crazy, right wing.

I hate to sound prejudiced, but when I hear christian these days, i cringe.

[Toasterlad]

17. They Bring It On Themselves.

Most christians flaunt their religion every chance they get. I have no problem with someone being religious, but they should have the decency to keep it in church, where normal people don't have to see it. It's christians that go around constantly talking about christianity that ruin it for the few decent christians out there.

[RandomThoughts]

18. One of the ways the teachings of Jesus Christ are attacked is for some people to

promote other teachings using the name of Christianity.

You could say the same thing about Judaism where a few people that might be greedy gives followers of the teachings of Judaism an unfair bad label. Or how extreme groups of Muslims make many things in Islam look like something that it is not.

Also for many people learning the teachings of Jesus Christ can be tried to be stopped by things of anger or hate, also visceral feelings, feelings that do not want people to know of his teachings.

If you think about it, when you try to talk to someone about caring for neighbors and other teachings of Jesus Christ many times they get angry also. Just like when someone talks about Love your Lord God with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself, some people will get angry to try and avoid that thoughts of compassion. In my view compassion is part of the spirit of God.

It is possible there is a reason for people to get angry at the thought, although in my view a bad reason if it blocks the good parts of teachings.

Just an idea, but you could read the words in the Bible Jesus said, as reported in the Gospels. If you read his words you can, although you might also interpret based in part on your heart and mind, be able to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ and decide if your feelings on Christianity is a fair feeling, or a result of things that have happened and been said by many people.

Their is a web site with online texts with many versions of the Bible
http://www.biblegateway.com/

I am also not saying you have not read those teachings, just making a point about a possible way to think on it.

[donco6]

23. You can do all of that without being Christian.

Christianity, despite its claims, has no corner on compassion.

[HillbillyBob]

30. My partner says the Red Letter Edition and just read the red letters.

As they are attributed to Himself. This lot has hijacked the Christian Religion.

I don't now and have not had a thing to do with religion in oh about 25 years or better. I was raised around various churches. Even a few that were considered extreme, some that are even more extreme now.
We have citizens who are as extreme as any of those in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan, but I suspect are better armed, and better fed(overfeeding could have its pluses in this instance...)

Personally I refer to the hateful ones as Kreestians and the good folks Christian and the ones with the k tend to exhibit traits of personal bad habits including, loud pious sounding announcements and pronouncements that so and so is a sinnner.
Banging on my door at 7 am on Saturdays when all know I work 3 jobs to bring gawd into my very own livin room before I have even had a morning pee let alone coffee after being awake till, oh 3 or 5 am. When you work as doorman for a gay bar in a little (minded ) town, I also worked full time construction and at a pizza hut on weekday eves to make ends meet, plus I bought yardsale furniture and refinished it to resell. I did not have time to sin or energy! Yet these folks continued this stuff that finally ended up with me shooting at them for trying to set a cross on fire against the front of my house. It was a while ago, but not that long. These folks called names, vandalized things around my house and even tires on my car.
These folks claimed they were Christian, I had a run in with another couple of Kreestians too, Anita Brayant and D james Kennedy, they are not Christian.

The fantasy that they are some how better because they see themselves as forgiven or chosen is sad and dangerous delusion, dangerous to others whom they see as unfit to be considered a human being.

Those calling themselves Christian are wholly different than those who Act Christlike.
I had my faith in those that really are Christian renewed when we (a gay male couple) moved to a rural place and our new neighbors are great they are what 'real' Christian is helpful, respectful, community minded folks.
And finding that my Grandma was an 'angel' who took meals to folks in need, or clothes.
Never telling anyone, those folks whom she helped showed up at the hospital and her funeral to pay their last respects, it was a very large crowd.

As I am about to finish this up , Rachel M is interviewing Jeff Sharlett at this minute....

[RandomThoughts]

41. Yea, I have read that version also, with the highlighted words of Jesus.

But even some of those writings require interpretation, I think that in some way the heart of the person reading it, and the spirit a person is in, hopefully kindness and goodness, make a difference in what people interpret the words to mean. And sometimes they have different meanings depending on where you are in life, but again it also depends on the interpretation.

I am glad you have nice neighbors that treat you with kindness and respect :) that is something I think Jesus taught also. I think many people get hung up on what they think is sin in other people a bit to much at times. I do the same thing at times when I judge people based on my standards. So I understand why people do it, and try to catch myself when I do it on subjects I comment on alot.

Interestingly today I saw a google add and clicked on a web site
http://www.y-jesus.com/bornid_1.php

The pages on the web site match many of my beliefs. I am not specifically advocating for the organization, not sure of the works they do. But the pages were interesting and an easier way of explaining what I think part of Christianity is beyond just being good. It explains the forgiveness of sin and why Christians consider Jesus different then just a prophet or just a moral man. The pages are a persons view of many things, in that it would not be perfect, but I thought most of it was pretty good.

I understand many people believe different, and I mean no offense if it is not something that interest you. The pages are from more of what I think of as a Christian belief perspective.

I also hope you get some relief from 3 jobs, that is alot for one person to handle, hopefully things will work out good for you so you have more time with friends and family, and to relax with those good neighbors you spoke about.

God Bless, and thanks for the story of your grandma, it is refreshing to hear about people like that.

[ClayZ]

19. These folks give me the Creeps!

None of this crap is what I was taught as a child about Jesus!

Reclaiming the 7 Mountians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xges7mFi6iY

http://www.reclaim7mountains.com/

[FLyellowdog]

20. Can we get an "Amen" to that? n/t

[LouisianaLiberal]

21. Even though I am not a Christian

it troubles me to think that our perception of Christianity is no longer guided by people like Albert Schweitzer, Thomas Merton, Gerard Manley Hopkins, Helen Prejean, and others who represented the best of that faith. I still hold dear many old memories of my grandfather praying silently, or of anticipating the wonders and mysteries of the mass as my mother dressed us for church. I sometimes look at my great, great grandfather's Irish prayerbook, and the volumes of Catholic liturgies and histories that my family took so seriously for so many years, and wonder what they would think of the state of modern Christianity.

[TuxedoKat]

27. Me too! And I'm a Christian!

When it comes up in conversation though with non-Christians, I feel I have to qualify
by stating I'm a liberal one, or not like the rabid, discriminatory hating ones.

[L0oniX]

49. I get a weird look of surprise everytime when I say I am a Dem and a believer ...

...like you can't be a real believer and be a liberal Dem. When that happens I know I am dealing with a fake.

[WillyT]

28. Yep... We Went From Martin Luther King Jr. And The Berrigan Brothers To...

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Jimmy Swagart.

:puke:

Conservative Christian... shouldn't that be an oxymoron???

:shrug:

[Ian David]

29. When I hear the word chrisTian, I immediate hear THIS in my head...

She's not A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!

Crazy Christian Lady, Marguerite Perrin on Trading Spouses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOpva_iit-8

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. Christopher Hitchens exposed one of the biggest frauds.

He wrote a book exposing Mother Theresa of Calcutta for collecting Millions of dollars and not letting the nuns buy themselves anything with it, and not setting up a hospital to relieve suffering. She just had a warehouse, apparently, where patients suffered but got no actual medical care.

[seabeyond]

32. 5, 6 yrs ago or more, i told husband driving by a small pretty church

out in the mountains in beautiful scenery, that in the past, i would have had a warm feeling, seeing cars in the parking lot on a sunday morning. not so much anymore.

i have never been a church goer, but i could appreciate their choice

i hear ya

[DU GrovelBot]

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[deep1]

34. If you replace the word "Christian" with "Muslim" or "Jew" in your posts........

I sure as hell bet your post would have been deleted and you would have been banned. But it's acceptable to bash Christians here.

Yes, I am Catholic, raised Catholic, with a priest and nun in my family. Catholics strongly favored Obama.

However, I REFUSE to jump into the Christian bashing bandwagon.

You know why?

BECAUSE THESE NEO CONSERVATIVES ARE NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS.


THEY ARE NOT, I REPEAT TRUE CHRISTIANS.

They hide under their Bibles to profess hate, their deeds don't ACCORD with the words of Jesus.

So stop the Christian bashing! You have 11 recs, sad there are so many Christian bashers on this board.

Truly intelligent, open minded people can tell the difference between a good Christian and one that uses the religion to spread hate and lies!

Democratic Underground professes to being fair and tolerant and never to allow bashing of religions, nationality, gender, etc yet they allow Christian/Catholic bashing to proliferate. Sounds hypocritical to me.

[emilyg]

36. Thank you.

[proteus_lives]

40. Good points.

There is a true double standard.

[Obamanaut]

42. Your post gets a 'rec' nt

[SidDithers]

45. They're just as much a Christian as you are...

"True Christians", what a fucking joke. :eyes:

Sid

[Ikonoklast]

50. Yep. They are whatever they call themselves

and someone else doesn't get to judge them any differently.

They call themselves 'christian'; then that's what they are.

Too bad there are so many unwilling to call out the hatred and intolerance of their fellow believers.

[pecwae]

46. It is hypocritical and your post is spot on. nt

[20score]

35. Agreed. They've hyjacked the term, just like they've hyjacked the flag.

Christian should mean someone "who professes belief in Christ" and the flag should stand for more than pro war. (Well, they do, but you get the point.)

[troubledamerican]

37. Christian-ISM is tribalist. Jesus wasn't.

[ContinentalOp]

39. I've always had a visceral negative reaction to it because I was raised that way.

It's a constant struggle for me to be "tolerant" of Christianity and think of it as something that could possibly be good.

[Canuckistanian]

43. I remember when being called a "Christian" was a compliment

It meant that the person was kind, compassionate, selfless and either gave money directly to the poor or organized funds for the poor.

In other words, they acted like Christ did.

[Solomon]

44. Now it means you're a hypocrit.

[L0oniX]

47. You are not alone.

[R. P. McMurphy]

48. I WANT MY CHRISTIANITY BACK!

Seriously Stinky, the Christianity I remember was supportive and nurturing. I don't recognize these shrill, selfish, close-minded and fearful people as being real Christians.

Maybe I'm naive and this was how it always was but I really feel that Christians abandoned me rather than me abandoning them.