Waxman: "This is a remarkable admission that raises serious legal and security issues"

[sabra]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-emails12apr12,0,4800585.story?coll=la-home-headlines

<snip>

The White House said an effort was underway to see whether the messages could be recovered from the computer system, which was operated and paid for by the Republican National Committee as part of an effort to separate political communications from those dealing with official business.

"The White House has not done a good enough job overseeing staff using political e-mail accounts to assure compliance with the Presidential Records Act," White House spokesman Scott Stanzel said in an unusual late-afternoon teleconference with reporters.

As a result, Stanzel said, "we may not have preserved all e-mails that deal with White House business."

He refused to estimate how many e-mails may have been lost, but the system was used by dozens of officials for more than six years.

"This is a remarkable admission that raises serious legal and security issues," said Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Los Angeles), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which is investigating the role of electoral politics in administration policymaking. "The White House has an obligation to disclose all the information it has."

[Old and In the Way]

1. Nobody's buying this bullshit. Obstruction of Justice.

Unfortunately, it is our Department of Justice that is a primary partner in this crime.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Damn, though. They have a tight alibi. It always works for the good ole boys.

It's the old, "We didn't know, no one told us, no one predicted it. no one would expect us to know everything..."

[Javaman]

61. or the classic: "I don't think anyone could have anticipated this..." nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

65. Why are they allowed to keep recycling these excuses?

That's why you need civil servants. To maintain an acceptable level of competence in basic office standards.

[jwirr]

78. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

[The Backlash Cometh]

81. It is in Florida.

Well, if you're white and well-connected.

[Bitwit1234]

83. I certainly agree....

How many of you have a folder in your email that keeps your sent emails. To "loose" these emails someones has to physically delete them.
So how in the hell did they loose them without deleting them. I have to take a lot of time to go into the account to delete my sent emails. So we know it was deliberate. AND ANOTHER CRIMINAL EVENT.

[IsItJustMe]

95. Special prosecuter comes to my mind.

[frogcycle]

2. I think Waxman should just have the damned place padlocked

I'm series

it's time to just frog-march every last one of them out of there into paddy wagons

ship them all to some "undisclosed location", declare Pelosi the President, and move on.

[eleny]

3. Quick! This is one for the boys at Homeland Security!

:applause: :sarcasm: :applause:

[glengarry]

6. But impeachment is off the table...

According to Pelosi, obstruction of justice does not qualify as an impeachable offense; in fact, nothing does.

[KAZ]

8. Such brilliance wasted on such a limited audience.

More, please.

[uppityperson]

14. What do you think about that?

Welcome to DU.

[vanboggie]

16. Well I agree with gg's remark

Which is just one reason I'm not a Pelosi fan. There are many more, but that's the biggest pile of Bushit she's spewed.

[AndreaCG]

18. With so many Democratic Reps and Senators collecting evidence

I think Pelosi will live with being called a flip flopper once the tangible evidence comes through. It would have been extremely premature of her to say we will impeach Bush before she was even sworn in as Speaker.

You have to convince quite a number of Republicans to vote for impeachment and removal. And this is a much more partisan, nasty bunch of hacks than existed in the 70s Republican Party. You need clear and convincing evidence, even if the majority of the American people are already convinced. In fact, you have to have the evidence that grabs the Pugs by the balls and says, vote for impeachment or the voters will kick your skanky ass out.

[vanboggie]

19. We'll see

I cooled on Pelosi right after stolen election 2004 when she immediately started talking like an evangelist. You could tell she was forcing the God and Jesus verbage. First of all it was very fake, and secondly she should have known as well as we did that Kerry won that election, not the Chimperor. She registers low on my honesty scale, so I don't see the "impeachment is off the table" statement as out of character for her. Just my opinion, and I really hope I'm wrong.

[eleny]

17. I didn't say anything about peaches

[PBS Poll-435]

29. Give the process time.

We have the slimmest majorities in both houses. If Waxman/Conyers/Leahy find something, then I am sure that the Speaker will revise her stance. Can you imagine the Fox News Alerts every day since November? Pelosi and Reid have stood up to * every chance they have had since winning. Just give the damn process some time.

[Lochloosa]

32. Welcome to DU glengarry

:toast:

[acmavm]

40. Yep, impeachment is off the table. No matter that this is the most

corrupt regime ever to usurp the highest positions in the land, impeachment is off the table.

The reason the dems were voted in was because people were tired of this shit. And the dems shut down the process by which the American people could find some relief and rescue right off the bat when they announced, publically, that they weren't going for the one think the majority of us want, to rein these criminals in (or even better yet, get rid of their corrupt asses).

[orleans]

88. maybe impeachment will be "on" the table once tim johnson gets

back into the senate (to help a vote to convict) and the evidence is so apparent that the people demand their senators vote for an impeachment conviction.

[ClayZ]

104. Maybe we should send tablecloths with the word "IMPEACHMENT"

"IMPEACHMENT" painted on them to Pelosi! It is time to put it back on the table!

[Spazito]

4. This has gone beyond just having "legs", it is a frigging

tarantula for the WH! Those e-mails must be incredibly explosive, involving much more than just the US Attorney firings.

[bdamomma]

59. oh of course, look how that aide (oh geez, I forgot her name)

who pleaded the fifth, and then resigned, there are alot of crimes being committed. They are going to slip up soon. Look how Kyle Sampson was answering questions or not answering questions. The big guys on top are pulling the strings, Rove, Cheney and whoever else is involved.

[Spazito]

62. Yep, any bets on who has "lost" the most e-mails?

I put my money on Rove. I don't think there is enough popcorn in the world to supply the demands this cover-up is going to generate, lol.

[IsItJustMe]

97. I agree. There is only so much one can do to cover their ass and it looks to me that time is

rapidly approaching. I think we will know something quit soon.

[guitar man]

5. This is hugh!!

they're screwn!!

[jwirr]

82. IF we can prove it. With the emails missing we are going to have

a hard time. Like most of *ss & company crimes we KNOW they did it but we do not always have absolute proof, which is what you need to impeach. I sat through the entire Watergate hearings and they finally got him not through impeachment but for tax evasion. He resigned because he was about to be indicted.

[NormanYorkstein]

7. Time to impeach

[loudsue]

9. Waxman needs to have FBI lockdown the RNC server -- to hell with the laptops!

The server is where they will find all those e-mails. But he needs to do it immediately, and put some FBI computer forensic specialists on it.

Karl Rove and the RNC have broken the law so blatantly that there's no wiggling out of this one.

:kick::kick::kick:

[WiseButAngrySara]

10. Can Waxman do this? ....n/t

[BeHereNow]

11. Where is CorpGovActivist!?

Haven't seen him posthere in a while-
I would really like to hear from him on this-
Any one heard from him lately?

BHN

[conscious evolution]

36. I've noticed the same thing.

Here is an interesting thought.
If IdesofOctober is who I think he is,they may be real busy digging thru some computers and servers once Waxman gets his hands on them.

[midnight]

105. Yes I too would love to hear from CGA.

Hope all is going well for him.

[loudsue]

12. I don't see why not! Congress has oversight to do investigations.

But maybe someone that is more of a legal expert around here could help out with that.

:kick:

[WiseButAngrySara]

15. DU has many lawyers. Maybe one of them will respond.

And BNH suggested CorpGovActivist!

:kick:

[Solo_in_MD]

21. In all likelyhood the emails are not on the servers, nor should they be

any more than your emails are on your ISPs server. Once they go to the client they are erased from the server. Thats in a run-of-the mill server. If you are looking for emails, look at the clients, if you can find them.

If you configure the server and the clients for non-retention then there won't be anything there to find on either side. Its easy and legal. No requirement for records retention by private organizations.

[moggie]

27. Don't think of it as an ISP server

Think of it as a corporate mail server. Typically, you'd set things up so that mail remains on the server, for a number of reasons, particularly if you have laptop users.

[Solo_in_MD]

28. That really depends on the approach taken and sometimes its up to the client configuration

I would be they follow the download and remove paradigm

[moggie]

30. You can certainly do it that way

But then you have some problems. For example, what about a user who uses more than one client machine: office desktop, laptop, Blackberry? They'd often find that a piece of mail they needed was on the "wrong" box. What happens if a user's laptop containing essential mail is stolen/lost/crashed? You can't rely on laptop users to do daily backups: hell, in my experience you can barely rely on users to do anything sensible.

Of course, the answer to the question "how do I design a sensible mail solution for this organisation" depends on whether plausible deniability is part of the requirement...

[nebenaube]

51. actually

didn't those requirements change with the patriot act? Private companies have to retain those records.

[Solo_in_MD]

75. Not really

They just have to give up what they have... http://www.cybertelecom.org/security/records.htm is a pretty good summary of what is current and proposed law. US Gov wants to change that, and that effort will undoubtedly continue under the next administration, regardless of who is elected

[IsItJustMe]

99. I have worked in computers for several years. You can bet those emails are still there, even if

deleted. When you delete something from a hard drive, it simply deletes the address location of the file. It is still there.

It simply needs special software to go out and find it (snooper). The only way those emails are truly gone is if

1) They replaced the hard drive to the server and the original hard drive can't be found or

2) They used special delete software that runs over and over the deleted emails with other data (usually random characters). Even when this software is used, it has to be done several times before the data is truly gone with no trace of the overwritten content. Four times at a minimum, 6 to 10 times for secret stuff. And in that case, you know damn well someone is covering up something. Kind of like, why did you shred those documents.

And even if the two previous statements are true, there are always, and I do mean always, backups made on a regular basis. I just don't see how they would be gone.

[moggie]

108. Time is a factor

When you delete something from a hard drive, it simply deletes the address location of the file. It is still there

True, when you delete a file, the blocks containing that file's data are simply added to the free list: the data is still on disk. But those blocks are now available for reuse, and could be legitimately overwritten at some point in the future when the OS picks them for use in a new file, or swap etc. A busy mail server has a lot of churn: not just users' mailboxes, but the mail spool and logfiles. The further back in time a message was deleted, the greater the chance that the blocks which made it up will have been written to multiple times since then. Last time I did some forensics of this kind, I was recovering files deleted only a few days previously, and even so I wasn't able to recover everything, because some blocks had been reused.

As for backups, let's say you back up everything daily, at midnight. If someone receives a message at 4 p.m. and deletes it at 10 a.m. the next day, there'll be a copy on backup. But if they receive a message at 4 p.m. and delete it at 5 p.m. the same day, it won't appear in the backup, assuming that the particular backup techology used doesn't back up deleted files.

[tblue37]

37. Except, of course, that the FBI, like the whole Justice Department,

has been infiltrated and operates as an arm of the Republican Party, too.

[PinkyisBlue]

41. The Bushies have violated both the Presidential Records Act and the Hatch Act.

Even if they haven't been conducting political business on government-supplied computers and cell phones, they have been conducting political business on government time, which is a violation of the Hatch Act.

The investigative committee needs to confiscate all the computers and the RNC server NOW.

[HootieMcBoob]

58. I don't even trust the FBI anymore

Not with Gonzolez and Bush cronies running the place these days. Every day we become more and more of a banana republic.

[ManWroteTheBible]

71. That's a great idea, except...

the F.B.I. is under the Justice Dept.

Who runs that department again?

[bleever]

13. Noncompliance is a criminal violation.

Ipso facto. Prima facie.

QED.

[Solo_in_MD]

20. Non-complinace with what?

[McCamy Taylor]

22. Federal law that government employees keep records.

[Solo_in_MD]

24. Its clearly a user issue, not a server issue, so any culpability lies with WH staff

and not the RNC.

What is unclear is what penalties are for inadvertent or intentional violations. Nothing in chapter 22 of title 44, United States Code says anything about penalties or whether it is a civil or criminal matter.

[Solo_in_MD]

25. I read Title 44, United States Code, and did not find that

where did you get your position from. It could be a civil matter, there may be no penalties associated with it other than "don't do that again"

[bleever]

91. From the article in the OP:

"Loss of the e-mail files would create a potential legal problem for the Bush White House: compliance with the Presidential Records Act, which was passed in 1978 in response to the Watergate scandal that enveloped Richard M. Nixon's presidency. The law was designed to ensure that presidential papers were preserved for historical and investigative purposes.

Rove's operation appears to have gone much further. "

[blogslut]

23. That's bullshit

The Whitehouse stuff from what I can tell, is hosted on racks @ Akamai...they can dig up the old logs. I'd bet the rent on it.

Correction: So it's the WH saying they've lost the stuff that was mailed via the RNC servers. My bad.

[Solo_in_MD]

26. not really and not more than a month old

way way way to much data

[DFW]

31. This is a modern-day version of Rosemary Woods

Remember the 16 minute gap "inadvertently" erased from Nixon's tapes?

He didn't get impeached, either, but he ran with his tail between his
legs because the evidence was piling up so fast that Republican members
of the House told him impeachment was a lock, and Republican members of
the Senate told him he could no longer count on 33 votes against removal
from office.

Bush so far still has more than 33 die-hard supporters in the Senate,
so starting impeachment proceedings now is indeed premature. It would
just take time away from things the House CAN get accomplished, and Waxman,
under Pelosi's leadership, is doing just that, as is John Conyers.

If and when there is hard enough evidence against Bush and Cheney to
make it indefensible for even their most fanatical supporters in the
Senate to vote against removal from office, then and only then does it
make sense to impeach. To tie up the Democratic House's time with an
impeachment that the Senate would never sustain is a Republican dream
and a trap for us. If the Democratic Congress does nothing between now
and the 2008 election, then we could lose the majority we worked so
hard for.

Going through the impeachment porcess now, when it's clear there will be
no conviction in the Senate, will be as successful and as satisfying as
it was for the Republicans when they impeached Bill Clinton. They looked
pretty bad for it, but since they had nothing to offer in the way of
positive legislation, they didn't care. We do have a lot to offer in the
way of positive legislation. Impeach if it's worth it. History has already
impeached and branded Bush and Cheney. If it means President Pelosi, then
and only then is it worth taking time away from investigating all the other
stuff Bush's gang has been up to.

The Watergate investigations never led to an impeachment, but they hounded
Nixon out of office, and got some of his staff and his Attorney General in
prison. That is one show I wouldn't mind seeing as a remake--just this time
include the Vice-President along with him.

[TwilightGardener]

48. Only probelm with your Nixon-hounded-from-office scenario

is that Nixon was crooked, but not delusional. Chimpy was ordained by God. God doesn't ordain mistakes! They'll have to carry him out.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. We also had honorable justices on the

Supreme Court at the time AND Congresscritters and Senators who were willing to impeach after the evidence became overwhelming. We also had a legitimate press at the time. In 2007, we have none of that. We DO, however, have the internet and millions of citizen investigators.

[DFW]

67. Nixon pulled the wool over his own eyes for a good while

He had that clown, Baruch Korf, whispering "you're the greatest" in hs ear
every two seconds. I think only when Barry Goldwater told him impeachment
and conviction were inevitable did he finally decide to throw in the towel.

But I agree that Bush would only go when he got the word from God to git along.

Odd, isn't it? Bush hears God telling him to do all this evil stuff, and yet
God never tells him to do anything that would be good for the country or the
world. Maybe the world's ills could be put on the path to cure with something
so simple as getting Bush a decent high-tech hearing aid........

[burbank_spiffers]

33. Doesn't the Patriot Act require ISPs to keep records of all of this?

I know it's odd to think of an ISP to be required to capture every little packet going through their system, but isn't it mandatory? I'd like to think that such an oppressive law would come back to bite them squarely on the ass.

Cheers,
Binkles

[CK_John]

46. Problem is that The RNC is the ISP. n/t

[Solo_in_MD]

70. There really is no ISP, its a private server

[file83]

102. To communicate over the internet, their "private server" has to eventually

be linked to an ISP either directly or by proxy. You can't just plug a "private server" straight into the internet's backbone.

[Akoto]

54. Yes, the ISPs are required to keep logs, BUT ...

They generally only retain them for a short period of time before deletion. This is true of almost all such providers. The size of activity logs accumulated by the average ISP on a daily basis is massive. After a point, it becomes economically and technologically unfeasible to keep them.

And, as someone said, the ISP is also maintained by the RNC. ;)

[Sherman A1]

34. Oh, what a tangled web we weave....

when first we practice to deceive.....

Let the investigations run their course. While doing so it pretty much shuts down the White House doing anything for the next two years. The Esteemed Mr. Bush is become the lamest of lame ducks.....And he was pretty lame before.....

[yy4me]

35. And excuse me, are we supposed to believe this baloney?

"to see if the messages could be recovered"? This is nonsense. Unless someone knows of a sure-fire route to recover deliberately deleted e=mails, these words mean nothing. The messages were all erased to cover their backsides, I'm sure. How could any of us with a brain believe otherwise? Just one more example of this administrations "up-yours" philosophy!

[BrainRants]

38. The "security" dimension to this story should be pursued harder

The government servers are provided by the taxpayers to comply with government security protocols to prevent sensitive information from being compromised.

It seems that any official traffic taking place OUTSIDE of that perimeter presents a possible compromise to national security.

This can help reinforce the frame that Republicans and specifically this administration donot take matters of national security seriously.

[Cass]

45. That is an excellent point, BrainRants. nt

[donkeyotay]

89. What is national security when everything is for sale?

Solo_in_MD, who is clearly knowledgeable, posted in another thread about "private wireless cutouts." Info comes in from an ISP to a wireless access point, is sent to another computer and out another bandwidth provider. This makes me think of Ralston and her "blackbeny." How do we (or they) know where the RNC's private backchannel info went? Whoever set up their system could access their info. Not only are the hiding their deliberations for the public whom they work for (that's assuming that they spent a nanosecond on the public's business) but they are making a backdoor for ???. The nation's business is just another commodity, and everything is for sale.

[deminks]

39. "Yeah, that's it. I was leaning back to answer the phone, and hit the delete key

accidently"

This is their Rosemary Woods moment.

This is huge.

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. How did our National Security Agency allow this to happen?

Homeland Security? FBI? CIA? Was no one paying attention?

[donkeyotay]

90. Another good point. They've got time/money to spy on Quakers

but this went unobserved. There must be trillions of tax dollars languishing in offshore accounts, because for all the money we've spent having the best intelligence and defense, they sure aren't delivering...unless they aren't working for us. In which case, I guess they are delivering. I'm not sure there's a distinction between the FBI deal-letters department and the RNC.

[Randy Ranger]

100. Why in Gods name would this be allowed

 How could the security people allow a separate computer
network in the white house in the first place?  IMHO this
would be a national security nightmare.  If this is not a
separate network The white house servers would have the emails
on them not?  Also I thought that government employees were
not allowed to do political work on government time.  This
sounds like a case of "Well your not supposed to do that
but heres a computer to do it on".  WTF?

[The Backlash Cometh]

101. Here we are scared shitless that our phones are being tapped and

our e-mails are being read, all for the sake of National Security, and, meanwhile, the White House is having a fraternity house slam-book festival with their computers.

[hippiechick]

44. ... the new "18 minutes of blank tape" ...

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[MasonJar]

47. How very convenient for them...just like the Nixon erased tapes.

It is a problem, but not nearly as huge a problem as it would have been to have provided the info on the tapes. Now the bums are giving guidelines...NO! These RNC computers need to go TODAY.

[rodeodance]

49. NSA should be able to find the 'lost' WH emails.

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject NSA should be able to find the 'lost' WH emails.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2803506#2804184
2804184, NSA should be able to find the 'lost' WH emails.
Posted by rodeodance on Thu Apr-12-07 08:30 AM



Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject NSA should be able to find the 'lost' WH emails.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x634609#634609
634609, NSA should be able to find the 'lost' WH emails.
Posted by rodeodance on Thu Apr-12-07 08:10 AM

umm.. wonder if they will?

I got this as an email this am. from a friend.


Wednesday :: Apr 11, 2007
White House "Loses" RNC Emails On Attorney Sackings

by Steve Soto

MisterOpus1 directs our attention to the White House cover-up in full swing: Bush/Cheney has managed to “lose” those emails from White House staffers using RNC servers and email accounts dealing with the sacking of federal prosecutors.

The White House said Wednesday it had mishandled Republican Party-sponsored e-mail accounts used by nearly two dozen presidential aides, resulting in the loss of an undetermined number of e-mails concerning official White House business.



The Republican National Committee set up the accounts for about 20 Bush aides, such as Karl Rove and his deputies, who get involved in politics, spokesman Scott Stanzel said. Having the GOP create non-White House addresses and provide separate BlackBerries, laptops and other communications gear was designed to avoid running afoul of Hatch Act rules barring federal employees from engaging in political activities with government resources or on government time, he said.

Nice try Scott, except doing so runs afoul of another federal law, the Presidential Records Act. So not only are you breaking that law, but you guys are now unable to find evidence after Congress asked for it; in other words, you are covering up.

But fear not. As Josh Marshall notes, some of that new technology that the GOP has given the FBI and NSA to spy on everyday Americans without probable cause can now be used by the Democrats.

Isn't technology great?

[TOhioLiberal]

66. It is karmic...

...talk about the law of unintended consequences!

[lonestarnot]

50. And all I am hearing this a.m. is IMESS IMESS IMESS blah blah blah.

[lonestarnot]

52. IMPEACH.................. DAMN!

[peacetheonlyway]

53. Subpoena Rove's Laptop

get the laptops, the blackberries, get them now.

we are so close to putting these asswipes in jail and the Senate needs to grow the same backbone that Conyers had earlier in the week when we pushed thru the subpoenas to testify.

let's do it.

let's take these guys out for good.

[bdamomma]

55. god, I hope Waxman stays on this, there was a crime committed here.

can we call anyone? perhaps his office? do you think they will confer with a IT specialist, about how to retrieve "lost" e-mails. What do you guys think?

[Fresh_Start]

56. a story said the WH was trying to instruct the people there

when to use each email system. Here's a suggestion for them. If your being paid by the people, you should not be working for the RNC. That ought to make it a lot simpler for them.

[Babel_17]

57. Get the geeks at /. involved?

http://slashdot.org/

I think they will eventually have a thread about this as it does go to concepts near and dear to their geeky hearts. :)

I predict some excellent suggestions will be there to be found amongst the many responses.

But you really need to know what you're doing when dealing with them, lol, they have a low threshold of tolerance for ridiculous suggestions and statements.

Then again, I'm sure Waxman has access to some extremely capable professionals who are experienced with these matters.

Great thread, recommended.

[meldroc]

76. I submitted a story on Slashdot...

Dunno if it will make the front page or Ask Slashdot, but don't say nobody submitted this story.

[Babel_17]

77. Thank you! (nt)

[meldroc]

80. Go to Slashdot's firehose and vote them up!

Specifically, mine is titled "RNC "Lost" Emails. Can they be recovered?", and there are a couple more submissions on the same subject.

[Babel_17]

84. Do you have a link?

I can't find what you're referencing. How do I get to "firehose".

I've searched the Politics and IT sections and put "RNC "Lost" Emails. Can they be recovered?" into the search engine.

Thanks in advance.

[meldroc]

86. Slashdot's firehose:

http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl

You probably have to be a member of Slashdot to be able to do this.

[meldroc]

96. Now on the /. front page:

Thousands of White House E-mails Deleted

Most of the comments in /. stories are trolls or people being silly, but there will be some hardcore IT people who'll talk about just how hard it is to make incriminating emails disappear without leaving incriminating bread crumbs.

[Babel_17]

98. Very good!

We're going to need a pool of experts who are primed to call "BS" as this story unfolds and the excuses fly.

[file83]

103. Some interesting comments/points I found while skimming through there:

Comment #18709863

they purposefully used non-WH servers owned and operated by THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE. No retention rules. How convenient.

You are underinformed. From the WH press conference this morning:

Since 2004, the RNC has had a policy of excluding White House staff from their automatic deletion policy, which means that the RNC every 30 days has automatic deletion policy. Since 2004, it's our understanding, that White House staff who have political email accounts provided by the RNC have been excluded from that policy.

However, it turns out that right when Patrick Fitzgerald was sniffing around the RNC for materials related to the Valerie Plame investigation, the RNC decided that none of Karl Rove's email should ever be deletable. So you have a two-fold challenge: after 2004 the RNC instituted a policy not to automatically delete emails in accounts of RNC users who also worked at the White House; and in 2005 the RNC specifically disabled email deletion on Karl Rove's account.

And I liked this exchange in the following comments:

Comment #18707685

Also at issue is the use of Republican National Committee e-mail domains (such as gwb43.com and georgewbush.com) rather than the official White House domain.

On the plus side, I bet it will be tough to claim executive privilege on those e-mails.

Comment #18708803

I bet it will be tough to claim executive privilege on those e-mails.

Hence their disappearance.

[BrainRants]

60. What about Poindexters "Total Information Awareness" program?

I can't recall the code name of the software (Viper or Stinger or something like that) but wasn't there some software the DHS/FBI/CIA was using under the Patriot Act to monitor all emails and create this massive database for data mining purposes?

Time for Congress to break that bad boy out and use it!

[johnlal]

63. As I have always said...

The more secretive the Administration is, the more justified people are in believing the worst. The reason we have records retention laws is not only for government oversight, but so that the government can prove to the people that nothing funny is going on. As records have been knowingly destroyed, we are justified in believing that they would show that Bush is up to no good.

[ArmchairMeme]

68. This tangled web

Congress is allowing the fox back into the henhouse to find proof that the fox did not kill the hens.

Since when does our legal system give the accused the leniency to go back to the crime scene and look for evidence themselves to prove themselves innocent? Would the robber caught with the stolen goods be allowed to do this? Would the murderer caught at the scene with the evidence showing them guilty be allowed to do this? NO in our justice system these people are locked up!

Our current system is working overtime to protect the wealthy from the crimes they commit. * lies and says trust me to give you what you are looking for and lies again and again and again. How is possible to believe any more lies?

[The Count]

69. Dang internets pipes got all clogged - want sum wood?

[benld74]

72. Get everything! Servers, Laptops, Desktops, Blackberries, cell phones,,,

Everything!!! Give them desktops connected to the WH server. Better yet, get them OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kablooie]

73. The big problem is that they have an airtight excuse.

"I'm sorry. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do that."

In the current White House this is the uncontestable multi-purpose defense that shields them from any legal repercussions.

And the damn thing seems to work!


Wouldn't work for you. Wouldn't work for me.

But for Bushies it seems to always be accepted as valid and the investigations move somewhere else.

[19jet54]

74. If I recall correctly...

... wasn't the lawyer/investigators denied access (security clearances) to investigate the NSA/FISA violation issues - but now we learn that the RNC computer system that totally bypassed Whitehouse security is used? U.S. Code requires $20,000 fine and/or 10 years imprisonment for EACH security violation. Waxman needs to really pursue this issue as National Security is at risk by the RNC!!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

79. The guys over at the NSA should have a copy?

or is the RNC exempt?

[myrna minx]

85. Boy am I forever grateful that we have the majority! n/t

[EVDebs]

87. Ptech access to WH, DOJ, DOD etc computer systems...

"Ptech is used primarily to develop enterprise blueprints at the highest level of US government and corporate infrastructure. These blueprints hold every important functional, operational, and technical detail of the enterprise. A secondary use of this powerful tool is to build other smart tools in a short period of time. Ptech’s clients in 2001 included the Department of Justice, the Department of Energy, Customs, Air Force, the White House, the FAA, IBM, Sysco, Aetna, and Motorola, to name just a few. "

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730

raises HUGE questions ! These DOJ emails (and EVERYTHING ELSE DOD etc.) may already be accessable outside the USA. This is HUGE !

BTW, Ptech has changed its name to GoAgile now. What is trying to be hidden here really smells to high heaven. Could it be that the CIA, or rogue elements within it, are trying to hide the CIA/GOP money lines hinted at in the article,

FBI probes Watergate prostitution allegations
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12634250/

that says,

"It's all part of a growing ongoing investigation into corruption in defense and intelligence contracts, which already has sent former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham to prison and, legal sources say, may threaten others in Congress and the CIA. "

If you want to do a coverup, the first rule since Watergate is come clean from the outset, they go a lot easier on you ! Obstruction of Justice isn't a 'limited hangout' !!!!!

[Blackhatjack]

92. Based on Henry's Reaction, He does not sound surprised ....

... and I am sure he already has some of the most damaging information.

[IWantAChange]

93. Geez - all this fuss over a measly 5 million+ lost emails???

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[tanyev]

94. Heck, they lost 9 BILLION dollars in Iraq. This is nothin'!

[EVDebs]

107. pssst. They've managed to lose $2.3 TRILLION....

from War on Waste
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

""More money for the Pentagon, CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, while its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

$2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million.

"We know it's gone. But we don't know what they spent it on," said Jim Minnery, Defense Finance and Accounting Service. ""

And you thought you were exaggerating, tanyev !

The GOP's skim out of the CIA's take is what Attorneygate/Gonzo-gate is all about:

""It's all part of a growing ongoing investigation into corruption in defense and intelligence contracts, which already has sent former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham to prison and, legal sources say, may threaten others in Congress and the CIA. ""

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12634250/

Bush doesn't want to let the public find out what the GOP's been up to for soooo long. The Cunningham case that Carol Lam was fired from means this is no longer an "ongoing" investigation if the Bush administration has anything to say about it. That's why you're seeing such desperate acts to cover up and obstruct justice.

I can't wait for April 17th to roll around. Gonzo's going to probably start taking the 5th too. Then you'll start seeing the "national security" excuses coming outta the woodwork !

[EVDebs]

106. The President is ultimately responsible for those documents...

US Code TITLE 44--PUBLIC PRINTING AND DOCUMENTS

CHAPTER 22--PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS

Sec. 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records, (a) and (b)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=632110&mesg_id=637307

(thanks to bleever, another DUer !)

And while they're grilling Gonzo, maybe they can ask him what Bush knows about Ptech (now GoAgile) and the WH DOJ computer systems. What's that Saudi company doin' in there anyway ?

[Tesha]

109. Charge Karl Rove with espionage. (NT)