Woodstock, Hippies and boomers.

[Texasgal]

I've read many of the threads over the last couple of days and I really must ask:

Where in the hell is all this anger coming from? Why all the pissiness about Woodstock, my generation is better than yours and hippies suck?

Can someone help me understand it? I am truly perplexed! :shrug:

[Skittles]

1. boomer bashing is a pasttime for the ill-informed

[Ishoutandscream2]

23. Amen. They are truly ill-informed

that generation sacrificed so much to make our society better. Yet, the ill-informed tend to blame all of their ills on the Boomers. Clueless, clueless, clueless...

[Skittles]

40. I am sick of generation bashing in general; it's very juvenile

we all have our challenges, none of us have had it easy - the stereotypes used to bash generations are sickening, especially coming from so-called "progressives"

[KoKo]

108. Agree...thanks for saying that Skittles.

[Hannah Bell]

167. like the boomers blame theirs on *their* elders.

but really, who was spreading the message of blame?

mass media.

good for the generations to resent each other.

keeps them from acting together as economic units, in their common interest.

[Blue_In_AK]

2. Don't trust anyone over 60?

Seriously, Hell if I know, but if it makes them happy to hate us, I say go for it.

[Texasgal]

4. I think it's really weird.

I mean... the outright venom!

It's so strange.

[GreenArrow]

33. It's the natural product of digesting years

of carefully crafted mediatainment corporate propaganda.

[Odin2005]

96. You just tell yourself that.

Yep, I got it, everyone who is sick of the Baby Boom Generation's collective narcissism are all dumb sheep that are propagandized from seeing the Boomers' self-evident glory. :eyes:

[GreenArrow]

130. well, that wasn't reallly what I was suggesting

but your response sounds kind of angry and bitter. It's not my fault your generation doesn't stack up.

[SingaporeExpat]

3. i know why r ppl so mean

[livetohike]

5. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Deja Q]

6. Because they text-messaged too much and got arthritis by the age of 27?

:evilgrin:


:hide:

[bigwillq]

16. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[20score]

7. My take is that a bunch "low information people" want to be like Cartman on South Park.

Dumb, fascist and obnoxious is no way to go through life, children.

[Texasgal]

10. I guess we get all types here on DU.

Kinda sad that they represent liberals. :(

[Indenturedebtor]

151. Ya see that right there is a big part of where our animosity comes from

I think I speak for pretty much all of the x-ers and millenials here when I say that we aren't angry at the DU Boomers... but we're all sick and tired of hearing about how great the Boomers are. The Boomer generation as a whole left this country worse off than before through sheer greed, gluttony, selfishness, narcissism, and short term thinking.

Boomers drove up the price of housing to buy more crap so we can't afford them. Boomers suppressed wages and killed the unions. Boomers outright worked against the environment. Boomers worked to undermine the school system. Boomers outsourced the jobs that we worked so hard to prepare for. Boomers let the infrastructure fall to crap. Boomers killed the pension plan. Boomers have us paying into SS and Medicare but they won't be around when we are your age. Even after the 70's Boomers refused to build public transportation. Boomers forced us into three wars of aggression. And so on.

And yet every day at work we are talked down to by Boomers, many of whom could retire and open up more jobs for those of us who have little to nothing, but you still hang in there to ensure that you can continue to over-consume to the age of 100.

Every time we turn on the radio or the TV, or go on the internet we have to hear about how great you guys are and how we're the "cynical generation". You know why we're cynical? Because we always have to hear about how great the Boomers are, and ya'll fucked everything up. We are continually told that we're underachievers, but you all have a stranglehold on the workplace. Many of you can't retire because your peers fucked everything up so badly, but I know dozens who simply refuse to get out of the way.

But thank you for the 60 hour work week, and the fact that it now takes two wage earners to survive. Thank you for killing the planet, and thank you for Jimi Hendrix. Hendrix is awesome... seriously thanks for Jimi.

[raccoon]

172. self delete nt

[20score]

233. First off, I'm not even a boomer. And all of those things you mentioned are because of the

anti-hippies and the sell outs. The people the hippies stood against. The hippies were the ones who fought to end the Viet Nam War, gender and racial inequality; fought against corporate control, etc. But it's the hippies that are always maligned. And if you read my post you'd know that I was calling out the douche bags that stand for all of the things the hippies stood against.

And the music really was better because the musicians made the music - the corporations didn't have complete control.

I wouldn't change a word of my post. Still stands.

[Indenturedebtor]

271. The Hippies do not exemplify the Boomer generation is what you're saying...

Exactly. The Hippies are hardly maligned by modern media. They're held up as an excuse for the rampant evil crap that 99% of the Boomers were and are still into.

And the music being "better" is a matter of opinion. Not all music since the 60's has been corporate controlled, just as not all music in the 60's was "grassroots".

What's really so nauseating about it all is the constant "we're the coolest generation" bullshit.

My post still stands.

[20score]

273. Keep on whining!

Nothing says "cool" like a good whine and an undeserved malign.

Honestly, bitching about the previous generation is just too much bullshit. I've always hated this saying, but, get a life.

[Indenturedebtor]

274. Oh so "We're super cool" is just a factual assessment? But if anyone disagrees they're whining?

Nice ;)

Boomers feel no compunction about trashing "them young fellers", but the minute anyone pops the "We're the coolest Generation" bubble we're all just whining because we wish we were so cool. We're just jealous that the Boomers came along and gobbled everything up before we had the chance. That's it :thumbsup:

[billh58]

8. We "hippies"

continue to piss everyone off. It's what we do...;-)

[livetohike]

13. Good point

:toast: I know I've done my share :hippie:.

[Fire1]

15. Yeah, that part of me never faded! LOL!! n/t

[graywarrior]

9. We're cooler than they are.

And sex was freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[Texasgal]

12. LOL!

Yeah... free sex without consequence would have been awesome!

[graywarrior]

14. And the drugs were way better.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

[Fire1]

18. Oh hell yeah! I don't know what this shit is now days that

they're passing off as 'weed.' It's got a sickening smell to it! Ugh!!!:puke:

[graywarrior]

19. And hashish! Don't forget them water pipes. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

And acid/alcohol punch....talk about 3 days at Woodstock.

[Fire1]

25. Never had the red but loved the black when we could get it!! LOL!

[graywarrior]

26. And how fun was it to drive while on luuds?

God that was a blast if I could remember it.

[Fire1]

36. Ah! The good ole days! They just don't know what they

missed.:hippie:

[graywarrior]

43. Cops had no clue.

Hell, I drove around in an electric blue hearse tripping with by boyfriend, brother and a rabbit wearing a top hat. Got stopped and because there was no booze in the car, cops let us go never checking for drugs.

[Fire1]

57. No shit??? Sweet!! I know you laughed your ass off!! n/t

[graywarrior]

64. Yeah, that was pretty funny.

[Cetacea]

165. LOL n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

153. Myess we all grew up playing video games and masturbating :P n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

152. It's stonger.. so it smells stronger. Better living through horticulture and chemistry ;) n/t

[Texasgal]

20. Must be outright jealousy!

No good weed..nowadays! :P

[Taitertots]

24. Obviously false

They had no Ecstasy.

Advances in genetics have created ultra dankitronics far superior to the garbage they used to call pot

[graywarrior]

29. Yabut, we had Strawberry Fields....

[EFerrari]

34. My guy and I went off to college with a lid that lasted all year.

It had nails, tan bark and dead batteries in it but we paid about ten bucks. We cut it with peppermint tea and it lasted through all our parties that whole year.

lol

[graywarrior]

39. Hell, those were the days you could buy a nickle bag and it would last for days.

Sometimes even a week. Hell, we kept drugs in our lockers at art school.

[Taitertots]

73. Yeah it is amazing what ....

40 years of inflation will do to a nickle bag.

If I tried to keep sour diesel in my locker, it would funk down the hallway. You can't drive across town without it funking your car out.

[graywarrior]

81. Hell, it would funk up your hair and clothes too.

[Fire1]

76. Remember Elton John and Led Zepplin?? I STILL got mine

and listen to them every now and again. I catch myself grinning and smiling about the memories.:hippie:

[graywarrior]

85. Elton John 1970

One of the best albums ever.

And man, did I love Blues Project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rlmK1IFAc8

[Fire1]

87. YES!! One of my favorites. n/t

[graywarrior]

93. And Lothar and the Hand People

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gqnu__c8vk&feature=related

[G_j]

131. Danny Kalb

Al Cooper...

:hi:

[Fire1]

32. B.S. I've seen the effects of your shit. You don't go to sleep!

You all are in a COMA!! LOL!! That's no fun.:hippie:

[Taitertots]

37. What on earth are you talking about

The danktastic buds, or the Ecstasy?

Either way there is far better pot now, and new better drugs.

[Fire1]

38. Your so called pot, n/t

[Taitertots]

44. You actually get high when you smoke it

Not like the cigarettes they used to smoke back then.

[Fire1]

48. We didn't have to roll a 6" blunt to get high fool! That oughta

tell you something right there!! LOL!

[Taitertots]

62. No, you had to roll a foot long joint

I don't know what your smoking on, but a 6" blunt of kush would have you falling down a flight of stairs and then back up them.

[Fire1]

66. Nope. Like you said, we had little cigarettes and a nickel

bag would last forever! LOL!

[Taitertots]

77. Why don't you adjust that nickle to inflation?

How much are you really talking about? .5 grams like today or a garbage bag like then. Inflation is a bitch.

[Odin2005]

98. +1, LOL

:rofl:

[Capn Sunshine]

52. no, we had X

we just called it STP
check the chemistry, same compound.

[Downtown Hound]

193. Your acid might have been better

You'll get no argument from me there. But weed? No ma'am. The weed today blows the stuff you had back then out of the water.

Mmmm...what was I just talking about?

[immoderate]

194. And you're ready to argue with someone who's had both. LOL.

"Hire a teenager while they still know everything."

--imm

[Taitertots]

204. Your inability to score good pot now

Isn't an accurate reflection of the current state of marijuana quality.


"Hire an old person, they still think they remember anything"

[immoderate]

219. Remember this moment.

Some day, you will try to impart some wisdom to an "idiot child," and you will find them totally impervious to any common sense. Think about how you will handle that.

So, maybe you could explain your reasoning here so I could understand? :shrug:

--imm

[Taitertots]

257. You should remember it too

When you realized that your minuscule experience in life doesn't dictate the objective reality, and that other people regardless of age have experience counter to what you have. Then you can handle it by not discounting the experiences other people have without consideration. Everyone gets there own little slice of it, don't think the other half isn't pepperoni.


Just because you ain't getting it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen lots of Woodstock era smokers attest to the superiority of modern hydroponics.

[immoderate]

269. I'm sure...

Lots of Woodstock era smokers never had the good stuff. But then again, some of us did. :smoke: You can find shitty pot in any era. And you can find good pot now too. To think that superb weed didn't exist before you did is ignorant and arrogant.

The fact is, that regardless of your age, you have no experience to counter what I have. I was there, and you weren't. What's your definition of experience? Do you think your experiences of the sixties are better than mine? am I discounting them too much? :rofl:

So why should I (or anyone) accept your assertions when you claim experience for a time before you were born? And personal attacks make your arguments seem even weaker. And without one single fact to support you, you denigrate my life experience. :cry:

I think you don't understand why growers use hydroponics. Assertions that a product is X times "better" because it was grown hydroponically don't exist for anything else. Can you name anything that is many times better because it is grown without soil? I didn't think so.

Now, let's see if you're educable (or just here for your own reasons.) Check out this hydro vs soil thread at 420 Magazine. This is a discussion by growers. Nobody there makes any magic claims about hydroponics, like you do. The growers are split down the middle on which they prefer. Are you gonna give them the benefit of your experience? (BTW, how many crops have you brought in? You think living in Humboldt for 24 years makes you an expert? You didn't say how old you were when you arrived there.) But I don't think you're here to learn anything. You're here for the argument.

--imm

[Downtown Hound]

220. Excuse me sir, but as a graduate of Humboldt State University

and resident of Northern California for going on 24 years now, I will gladly take the Pepsi challenge with our current crop of bud against anything you folks had in the 60's any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. In fact, the high potency of weed here is largely due to a labor of love and profit that the hippies performed when they moved up to Humboldt and perfected growing techniques. Marijuana cultivation was in its infancy back then, now it has become a refined science.

[immoderate]

226. I've had the best Humboldt County has to offer...

And some of it is certainly very good. Were you around in the late 60s and early 70s before the hippies in California "perfected" the growing techniques? Did you sample the Columbian Cheeba, the Panamanian Red, Acapulco Gold, Kona Gold of the time? Did the people who grew it for hundreds of years get it wrong? You saw what they did with corn, bananas, and tomatoes, right? But those poor brown skinned people couldn't figure out how to grow good pot.

What did the hippies who migrated to northern California use as their model, shit that didn't get you stoned? Being aware of your ignorance will aid in your growth.

--imm

[Downtown Hound]

261. I was born in 1976

But, I have met numerous hippies and ex-hippies that were around during the 60's. And I can tell you that you are the ONLY person I have ever spoken with who says that the pot was better back then. So I have literally dozens of people telling me that it is stronger now, and you, who says it was stronger then. Me thinks I will go with majority opinion in this case.

Plus, nearly every piece of scientific literature I've ever read on the topic confirms that yes, pot is more potent than it used to be. It's not as potent as the drug war propagandists would have us believe, but still more potent than it used to be.

So again, I think I'll go with the majority opinion and the scientific literature over your lone voice. If that makes me ignorant (LOL), then smack me on the head and call me Cleetus.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/12/high-times-in-a/

[immoderate]

270. Cleetus...

I'm honored.

Usually these threads attract many old timers who are happy to share their experiences with you. You might try looking up and down the tread, but if you start an OP that says something like "pot today is 10 20 30 times better than it was in the 60s" you will get a lot of answers from people who have experience.

I'm not saying that there aren't contemporary products that are spectacular, I'm saying that my yardstick is something that was grown on a mountain in Columbia in 1969 under what must have been perfect conditions. Nothing I have had subsequently has been better. Others have their favorites, that's mine. There have been others, perhaps not as strong, but that has a special sweetness to the high. Oaxaca gold comes to mind. :)

Now you must decide whether to go with the majority (they are never wrong, of course) or use some common sense. What other cultivated produce can you name that is many times better than what was grown in the sixties? Pot has been cultivated for centuries, but they couldn't do it right until hippies went to Humboldt County?

On edit: The article you cite does not address the question. It does not consider the quality of the high, merely the measured THC content. It even states, "the potency of marijuana might not actually matter much, with smokers (and/or midnight tokers) adjusting their intake based on the bud’s THC content." As you might know there are myriad chemicals in pot that affect the kind of high you get. Judging marijuana on it's THC content (by weight) is like judging wine on it's alcohol content.

--imm

[orleans]

266. lol! it really was awesome. n/t

[rug]

11. They're pissed because Woodstock on Wii hasn't come out yet.

[Xicano]

17. What Happened? Lack of Psychedelics

The youngsters today by in large haven't had their egos dissolved and their minds expanded by full blown psychedelic experiences. Their consciousness hymens haven't been broke yet.

;)

[CountAllVotes]

30. that is a definite point

I had not thought of it admittedly. They have not had the chance nor opportunity to tune in, turn on and drop out it seems. Personally, I'd highly recommend it.

They might find themselves somehow if it was still possible. However, it might not be possible being the LSD is no longer what it once was from what I hear. ;)

Is it jealousy? I really don't know. I did not go to Woodstock. I was 14 years old at the time and living on the wrong coast.

I find the chatter posted to be very toxic. It really turns me off, that is for certain. I almost sense a certain amount of absolute hatred which does disgust me I must admit.

Much of the garbage I've read and attempted to respond to is out of people old enough to be my kid. Maybe they hate their boomer parents and are taking it out on others of the same age group here on the DU is all I can suspect. How fucking sad huh? :shrug:

[Xicano]

113. There's still a moderate community of youngsters who have a pretty good idea

Some can be found here:

http://www.pot-tv.net/

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=activetopics&range=7&type=t


;)

[Zix]

56. I'm tempted to take that seriously. Should I? I don't agree, but it's an interesting point NT

[Xicano]

117. Thanks Zix. Maybe you'll like this audio link..

http://dmt-nexus.com/audio/TerenceMcKenna%20Audio/Terence%20McKenna%20-%20Tree%20Of%20Knowledge%20-%201%20-%20of%208%20rc.mp3



If you enjoyed that and want to listen to the whole thing. Go to link below and scroll down to the links titled "Tree of Knowledge"

http://erocx1.com/TerenceMcKenna.aspx

[Odin2005]

102. This Millennial does meditation. No risk to fucking up my brain like with acid.

I've heard many stories of people with mental health issues becoming psychotic after using LSD and I have mental health issues. :hi:

[Cetacea]

160. Thanks to the boomers for popularizing it. n/t

[Cetacea]

161. It's not a good drug to take with pre-existing mental disorders

However, it has aamazing potential for correcting mental disorders and quickly at that. Research is being done in Europe and I believe it's restarted here as well.

[Zix]

21. Hm.

Well, I think Woodstock must certainly have seemed at the time to have been a very wonderful and important thing. I just wonder why hippies try and convince everyone that it's more important than their own experiences. It's a bit weird, really.

[Texasgal]

22. I still don't understand the

the outright venom!

So what? If it was described to you as something magical and a experience... who are any of us to discount or to judge?

[Zix]

27. It's not that at all, it's the "we're in a special club and you poor people have no dreams" thing.

It's just a deeply ignorant way of speaking to people. And you have to admit that on these threads numerous people from that event have definitely spoken that way, with no knowledge at all of the experiences of the people they're aiming these kinds of comment at.

[Texasgal]

31. People are talking about it

because it's the 40th anniversary. I believe that "live aid" and "farm aid" will be celebrated and remembered fondly as well.

I've never met anyone that was there that has tried to discount my life experiences and I grew up in a commune! I was surrounded by hippies until about the age of five... :shrug:

[Zix]

42. sure, fair enough.

But I thought we were talking spefically about this site. I don't think anyone's pissed off with hippies per se, it's just the ones who think they're more enlightened than other anonymous people on the Internet because they went to a druggy rock party! It's sort of ridiculous.

I've taken LSD myself. It's very good at making you think things are significant when really, they're not. I don't use it anymore.

[EFerrari]

28. It seems to be an internet mob thing.

Hold up something cool or loved and it draws flies. :shrug:

The only thing I hate about Woodstock is that I was too young to go.

[Erin Elizabeth]

53. In another thread, I watched someone express pity

for another person because they didn't get to experience all the "vibes and beauty and turbulence" and blah blah blah.

It was pure condescension.

That does tend to get a negative response. I think it's fairly understandable.

[Zix]

59. Yeah, exactly. How on earth would they know what the other person could have done?

I've had some pretty amazing experiences myself, collectively and individually, but I don't think I personally own the concepts that underpinned them!

[Erin Elizabeth]

67. Exactly.

My teenage daughter now thinks it's "cool" that I "got to be" a teenager in the 80s. (The 60s of my parent's generation is too far back for her to contemplate, I guess. I can remember being like that about my own grandparents.) I guess because all the styles are back in (I have a rule that if you wore it the first time it was around--or at least remember it the first time around--you don't get to wear it the next time).

It was a weird time, the 80s. But also pretty good. And I'm glad I was a kid in the 70s and remember that entire decade (pretty much, I don't have too many memories of the very first two years or so).

I've not ever wished I lived in the 60s, I'd be ten damn years older! LOL. But sometimes I wish the obsession with it would wane a bit. It will. It'll just take a bit more time.

[pipi_k]

180. I guess that too, is a matter of perception

The condescension part, I mean.

I wasn't there. I wanted to go, but circumstances beyond my control prevented it.

I've "lived" the experience vicariously...through, first, the album, then the movie/DVD.

Not the same. If someone expressed pity that I couldn't be there to experience the vibes and beauty and the whole atmosphere I would know they were right. And my heart would ache all the more because I really did want to go.


I think that something people need to realize also is that Time has a way of causing us humans to see things in a different light. Romanticize them, in a way. That's why some people, at the end of a difficult relationship, might tend to imagine that there was more to it than there was...that their SO was more kind...more loving...a totally different person than he or she is now.

If any of us Boomers seem like we're making a particular era into an Era To End All Eras, please realize that it's not unusual. Sometimes things are way better or way worse in our memories than they really were...

[G_j]

50. I don't think that is generally the case

most, from what I've read, are not trying to say the experience was better than another generation's experience.
But forty years is a long time, especially if you 'got on that bus'.

It's a birthday.

There are many who didn't even make it through all the turmoil of the last 40 years.
A toast to them.

[Zix]

80. Oh, come on!

One of the most contentious threads says "Hippies=God" in the opening post!!!!

Certainly, for those who didn't make it, very sad. We should wish things had been better for them, at least.

Anyhow, Happy Birthday, Woodstock. It looked like fun and we tried to copy it in the suburbs in the 90s and our version fell over just as horribly as yours did!

Maybe that kind of thing just doesn't work.

[G_j]

101. point taken

and I would never diminish your experiences and life. Of course, I am no more important than you.

That moment was a window that opened through a juxtaposition of many events, not the least being war.
We can only hope that any generation will seize the elements of the time and push the human family to a better place.

[annabanana]

35. Plain old post-pill, pre herpes/aids, jealous.

they missed out on the free love and cheap drugs

[Fire1]

41. STRAIGHT UP!! THAT'S IT!!! LOL!!! n/t

:hippie: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


edit for smilies.

[CountAllVotes]

45. yep that is it

they missed out on the good times and all that went with it. Jealous. Hmph! ;) :) ;)

[Zix]

46. Condoms. I did free love. It doesn't work.

Didn't miss out on anything, followed the hippy ideal with the aid of one or two common sense precautions and, um, it's not that great.

Yeah, and drugs. Not really any problem with getting lots of cheap drugs in the 80s and 90s.

[annabanana]

47. lol . .maybe you weren't doing it right. .

:evilgrin:

[Zix]

54. All that TEXTING and DRAMA and endless needs on every side for REASSURANCE.

Maybe hippies did it better. I just got fed up with it!

ONE person who I love and who loves ME is what I wanted, in the end, and what I got. So I'm lucky!

[Erin Elizabeth]

61. How does one "do free love right?"

I'm curious.

[annabanana]

68. You'll know it if it happens to you. . . . n/t

[Erin Elizabeth]

79. I'm 39 years old, been married for 18 years.

Thanks for the non-answer, but I don't think I'll be trying "free love" anytime soon.

I was promiscuous in my teen years and it just felt like a disrespect for myself and being used.

Different strokes. Or maybe I wasn't "doing it right." Maybe I should have let MORE guys do me, then I would have achieved some sort of nirvana? Or maybe if I was high while letting a bunch of guys do me at once?

Sorry but that doesn't sound like anything positive to me. I'm obviously no "wait until marriage" prude, but the idea of being passed around like a sex toy while on drugs never appealed to me, even in my younger days.

[annabanana]

105. nobody "passed" anyone "around"

Sex was a celebration of a larger love.


I guess you had to be there.

[Odin2005]

106. I'm 23 and I'm simply NOT the promiscuous type.

I simply don't find sex that fun when it's not in a serious relationship. :shrug:

[Erin Elizabeth]

58. Oh I don't know.

I was sexually active post pill but pre-AIDS (AIDS was around, but not in the general heterosexual population yet). I don't even remember being aware of AIDS when I became sexually active.

Drugs were cheap when I was a teenager and young adult. They were pretty damn good, too. My first concert was Pink Floyd. In 1987, when I was 17. Damn fine show and damn fine pot. We still had a smoking area for the students when I was in high school!

Why would I be jealous, I had all that.

How was there a pre-herpes time, anyway? That shit's been around FOREVER. ("The clap.") I bet you a dozen donuts there were STDs passed around like wildfire at Woodstock and college campuses in the 60s just like there were when I was in college in the late 80s.

[foo_bar]

159. "pre herpes" is really dating yourself

The first knowledge of herpes can be traced to the ancient Greeks, who coined the phrase ‘herpes’. Hippocrates used this term to describe lesions that appeared to creep or crawl along the skin. Descriptions of HSV have been found on a Sumerian Tablet (dated 3rd Millennium BC) and on the Ebers Papyrus (circa 1500 BC).

http://www.ahmf.com.au/media/history-of-herpes

[Erin Elizabeth]

49. Look at all these responses.

"They're jealous."

For me, there's certainly no jealousy (after all, they're old now) or anger, as you mention in your OP. But the answer would be very simple: just plain tired of hearing about them. That's all. Just boomer/60s/Woodstock/aren't-we-awesome fatigue.

For the record, I was born in 1970 to boomer parents who were and are extremely enamored of themselves and their generation. Good for them, I say. Now maybe just give me a five second break from it here and there. Maybe?

(When that commercial comes on that shows those guys in their 60s rocking out with their garage band playing Beach Boys or Beatles covers or something, feeling all hot because they use Just for Men Touch of Gray or they took their Viagra, I have to turn it before I throw up. I hope to God my generation never gets represented in such an embarrassing way, thanks. Oh and Dennis Hopper talkin' bout how "oh we're still cooooool, we're still HIP, man, because we've got this RETIREMENT ACCOUNT" well, that sincerely gives me a chuckle. I guess in 20 more years it'll be all about how cool and hip they are because they're in the FreePeaceandLove Nursing Home or something. Milk it, boomers! Milk that one decade for the REST of your LIVES! LOL.)

[Chemisse]

65. Those commercials are just exploiting boomers memories of that time

Just because people on a COMMERCIAL feel cool because of their retirement accounts doesn't mean that actual, real people are that pathetic.

[Erin Elizabeth]

70. I was using it as an example of how the boomers have dominated

the cultural messages for so long. Everything's been about the boomers for as long as I can remember. They cast a very very long shadow and while other, older generations did not have that kind of attention, they have.

[Fire1]

82. CAUSE WE WAS DA SHIT!!! Roflmao!!!!

:hippie: :rofl: :rofl:

[pipi_k]

78. Hey, don't worry about it...

Anyone who's watched the "Woodstock" movie on DVD will see, either in the beginning or at the end, there's a short sentence that says:


Dedicated to the Woodstock Generation
1946 - 20??

Sometime during this century all of us Woodstockers/Baby Boomers will be dead.


And that will be the end of the annoying reminders of something that will never happen again. Ever. What a relief that will be for people who are sick of hearing about it!


PS... I have a son born in 1970 and a daughter born in 1972. I have no doubt that when their children get to be your, and their, ages, they'll be hearing about the "good old days" when their parents (my kids) rock and rolled to the likes of "Ratt", "Def Leppard", "Kiss", "Guns n Roses", etc., and Big Hair was the Fashion du Jour, along with lots of spandex.

Personally, I think each generation tends to focus on a time when it was on the cusp of innocence and painful knowledge. It's bittersweet.

When you get older you may understand better. :)

[Erin Elizabeth]

84. When I get older?

I was born in 1970. I have a 14 year old daughter.

And there's that condescension again. Yes your generation was the most awesome ever or that ever will be! Oye. Yes, we do get sick of hearing about it and hearing about it and hearing about it.

At least my teenage daughter hasn't grown up being beat around the head and shoulders with my generation.

"I have no doubt that when their children get to be your, and their, ages, they'll be hearing about the "good old days" when their parents (my kids) rock and rolled to the likes of "Ratt", "Def Leppard", "Kiss", "Guns n Roses", etc., and Big Hair was the Fashion du Jour, along with lots of spandex."

See, there's the thing right there--I didn't have to get to my 30s to hear about the Amazing Wonderful Baby Boomers and the Incredible 60s. I just had to be born to hear about it. Ad infinitum. Ad naseum. All my born days. There's nothing at all wrong with getting older, growing up and hearing about the cool things in your parent's generation. Or discovering it on your own. But being pummeled with it your whole life does give one a case of fatigue, I hope you understand.

[pipi_k]

104. Really, I don't mean to be condescending, but...

if the worst that ever happened in your life was that you had to hear over and over again about MY generation, then I'd count you very lucky.

Did your parents provide a good home for you? Feed and clothe you? Treat you well?

If the worst thing they ever did to you was subject your delicate sensitivities to the repeated stories of life during the 60s and 70s, then I have no sympathy.

Talk to someone your age who maybe had to deal with severe physical privation or abuse and see what they'd rather have had to deal with. Abuse from asshole parents, or hearing about the 60s day after day.


I heard lots of stories from my own parents about how rough it was growing up during the WWII era. And more from my MIL, who grew up during the Depression. My dad is gone. My MIL is gone. I'd gladly listen to their stories if they could come back.

Yes...when you get older, you'll understand.

[Erin Elizabeth]

115. WOW!

I'm extremely offended by that post, but I'm going to tamp that down because you made a LOT of assumptions that led to that offense.

No, being beaten about the head and shoulders with the 60s was NOT by far the worst thing that ever happened to me growing up! How I sincerely wish it was! But even if it WAS, how does that deny my point? You completely avoided it and went off on a lecture about deprivation and abuse and assumed a HELL of a lot about me!

For the record and this is just a condensed list:

1. divorce of my parents when I was five
2. five year long nasty custody battle until I was 10
3. alcoholic abusive stepfather who made me "pretend" I was his girlfriend
4. mother with Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder
5. very few days went by that my brother and I were not beat with a belt, burned with scalding water, burned with curling irons, beaten with hairbrushes, or locked in closets or the laundry room with no access to water or toilet
6. I was once locked in the laundry room so long I lost consciousness due to dehydration (I was six) and my mother was forced to call 911--at the ER, she denied everything
7. went to school with black eyes
8. broken bones from being thrown against brick wall
9. concussions and stitches
10. never enough food in the house--my brother constantly got in trouble for stealing food
11. mother once snatched us up when we were 7 and 5, yelling that she didn't want us anymore, and drove us to a city intersection and left us there. My brother was barefoot and it was February and freezing so I carried him home 10 blocks on my back, crying the whole way. I prayed my window was unlocked (I left it unlocked in case we needed to bolt) and it was. We snuck in and went to bed hungry. The next day it was as if she didn't even remember doing it.
12. mother addicted to pills our whole life--arrested for passing off fake prescriptions and offering sex to doctors and police officers in exchange for pills and other favors

Shall I go on, or would you like to lecture me some more about not understanding things in life? Because seriously, I've got more.

I've gone through a lot of therapy to deal with it all and count myself a very lucky person to have survived and survived well. My brother didn't fare as well, though.

Now----next time just address the point directly instead of trying to avoid it by throwing out a straw man.

I understand things just fine, lady.

[pipi_k]

169. So all that happened to you and yet

the thing that gets your goat enough to rant about in a topic asking why people bash Boomers is that a whole generation is milking one decade, claiming that people as old as your father, who are using hair color or Viagra or whatever, and Dennis Hopper, sending "We're still cool and relevant" advertising messages to my generation are...I forget the exact words, but you said something like you find them disgusting.

Interesting.

Well, seeing as all those awful things were visited upon you by your parents, perhaps your disgust with Baby Boomers in general has nothing to do with US.

Perhaps it's just a safe way of being angry with your parents for the miserable life they visited upon you.

And again, I say...when you get older you learn that it's a matter of perspective.

Sit there and judge all of us with high-horse contempt if you wish, for being happy and proud to have been a part of a generation that was a catalyst for lots of changes that you and your children will benefit from for a long time to come.

All that pain in your life...yet the ones you seem to have the most contempt and disgust for are people you don't even know. A whole generation, in fact.

there's not a whole lot anyone can say to that

:shrug:

[TexasObserver]

175. Hating the people who did those terrible things makes sense.

Hating their generation for it makes no sense. It's displaced anger. If someone treats you poorly, blame them, not their family, or their profession, or their race, or their gender, or their generation.

Unloading fully on the parents who behaved badly is justified. Stepping around that righteous anger to deliver blows to total strangers because they share your parents' generation, however, is senseless.

As for the Dennis Hopper commercial, I hate that one myself, but it doesn't make me hate boomers, of whom I am one. It makes me hate (1) Dennis Hopper, for turning into a jackoff who will do anything for a buck, (2) the company that hires him to advertise for them, and (3) the boomers who would be moved to act based upon that commercial.

And the hair color and Viagra commercials for boomers? Hate those, too. I think coloring hair is pathetic for men over 40, unless they're a circus clown. And I don't care to hear testimonials from a bunch of guys who think they're rocking out to a tune that is 45 years old. Viva Shut the Fuck up, Viagra!

Boner meds are the scourage of TV. How many times can they show the same commercial? I will put it in writing to them. If I need you, I can remember your product name!

[pipi_k]

182. I forget which haircolor product it is, but the one I hate...

is where they tell guys they can "Look like they're old enough to know what they're doing and young enough to do it". And then there's the (possibly younger) woman who takes off her glasses and gives us a meaningful look

yech

just totally tasteless.


I don't mind the Dennis Hopper one myself. I guess I sorta feel sorry for him if he's gotta hawk for investment companies or insurance or whatever the hell he's selling...His career must be blowing donkey shit or something...

[Erin Elizabeth]

222. Uh, actually she created this whole straw man.

This idea that maybe I'm just really mad at my parents.

LOL! I've forgiven them for everything. Sad messed up people exist in EVERY generation. And they are two people, not an entire generation.

My original point is and always has been that, in my opinion, the boomer generation and all their wonderful awesome incredibleness has been shoved at us since we were born to the point of obnoxiousness.

I asked my husband last night about this. He doesn't even know what DU is and I didn't mention these threads. Just asked him what he thought of the 60s, woodstock, all that. He was born in 68.

His exact response: "Fuck the 60s, I'm sick of hearing about it."

Blame your PR people, I guess, LOL. Overhyped, overexposed.

[pipi_k]

231. Well I must be out of the loop, then

Because I don't see where, or how, young people are "hearing about the 60s to the point of obnoxiousness".

Yes, there are some radio stations devoted to playing the Oldies. But there's an on/off button, and even a dial that switches to other stations.

and every ten years, on the anniversary of some major events that happened in the 60s, we hear more about them for a while, then it stops for another decade. IMO, the only years something that major happened were 1963, 1968, and 1969. That leaves six other years that nobody much cares about.

As for the "straw man" argument, I beg to differ. I merely stated that if telling you about the 60s on a constant basis is the worst thing your parents ever did to you, then you may count yourself lucky

that and nothing more.

YOU are the one who brought up a whole history of abuse perpetrated on you by your parents.

If someone says something really rude like the boomers are milking the decade for all it's worth or whatever it was, I really have to wonder what's up with the contempt for a whole generation.

So your parents abused you and you couldn't do anything about it, but you've forgiven them.

OTOH, a whole generation, our memories and reminiscences, are subjects of abject scorn and contempt even though those memories never hurt anyone. They were just....annoying.

Wonderful.

[Erin Elizabeth]

234. I am QUITE sure

that you found your experiences wonderful. Just as I have a lot of good memories of my teen and young adult years.

It was the media oversaturation of your generation all the years we were growing up that gets under our skin. That's ALL I am expressing in this thread. My two parents weren't in charge of the entire media machine. Individually, they had nothing to do with it!

But it's the bigger picture view you're missing here--we have been beat over the head with your generation since birth. Yes, you got to hear about the Greatest Generation and the Great Depression, but I would argue that your generation had much expanded tools for beating your drums loud and long since the media was more advanced by the early 70s onward. Exploring and celebrating popular culture wasn't the norm in the newspapers of the 40s and 50s. Certainly not compared to how it expanded later.

Also, don't take all this so damn personally. Your generation is simply like one of those young movie stars who gets overexposed and people get sick of seeing her in everything, every movie, every interview, every newspaper and magazine article, EVERYTHING. After a while they just tire of her, period. That's your generation to me and many other Generation Xers.

[pipi_k]

242. I didn't take it personally until the statement that the Boomers

are "milking a whole decade"

Up in your first post.

That was sarcastic and contemptuous and totally uncalled for.


And it doesn't jibe with what you're saying now, that it's all the fault, mostly of the media.

The story keeps changing

First it was hearing it constantly from your parents.

Then it's us...the whole generation.

Then it's the media that's at fault.


Like I have pointed out below, there are many things you should be thankful for, and if it means having to be assaulted to the point of "obnoxiousness" by the 60s and Boomers as "payment", then that's the way it is. It's a small price, I think, for being able to do a lot of the things you CAN do today.


See, you dug your own hole by not merely stating that you heard it all the time while growing up...that, to me, would have been understandable. Instead, you had to sit and mock Boomers for "milking a whole decade".

That sucked.

[TexasObserver]

245. It's just whining by those who have never accomplished anything.

[Erin Elizabeth]

221. I have to say you seem very ignorant.

Nothing in this entire thread has ANYTHING to do with how I grew up. I provided you with a detailed list after you used the straw man of "well, if that's the worst thing that ever happens to you" to prove that it wasn't.

THEN you try to play armchair psychologist with me. Again, to deflect, it seems.

Look, this entire thing is about how the boomer generation has been shoved down our throats since we were born, non-stop. Be proud all you want, no one ever said you couldn't be! I really don't care if you are.

But I have found your generation's self-absorption to be extremely annoying. It's an opinion. If you can't handle it, I suggest you move on.

[pipi_k]

238. You know one of the problems of my generation?

Without meaning to, many of us raised our children to be quite disrespectful to their elders.

Be that as it may, and on the subject of self absorption.


It's something that's present in every generation, at least going as far back as the Boomers. Before that, the generations didn't have time for it.


All fine and dandy for your generation...or maybe you personally, who knows...to sit there and sit in judgment of the generation before you and call us "self absorbed". Especially when a lot of the benefits of our "self absorption" are now yours.

"Self absorbed" people don't go to a tropical hellhole and die by the thousands each year. "Self absorbed" people don't fight for civil rights and womens rights , not just for themselves, but for generations as yet, at the time, unborn.

My generation did that, and more, and we don't expect any thanks for it. Just like my dad's generation fought in WWII and did their duties and tried to make life better for us. They didn't expect thanks, and I don't know that I ever did say "Thank you" to my dad for the sacrifices he made.

But I NEVER slapped him in the face with rudeness and childish petulance when day after day all we heard about was how much "better" things were back in the olden days.

I wouldn't do it to him, and I wouldn't do it to anyone else.


I think my generation doesn't really want thanks...but it sure would be nice if you young people would stop acting like a bunch of dickheads. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. At least to, and about, people who blazed a trail through an uncharted forest, the benefits of which you are now enjoying.

[TexasObserver]

249. You're right. It was bad parenting, and we see the tragic results here.

I do feel very sorry for her, and I know that such horrible parenting creates children who can never function well.

[TexasObserver]

248. That's a word you should reserve for yourself.

"Ignorant."

And that other term you use - "self absorbed" - certainly works better for you than for those you attack.

Your anger at boomers is laughable. Maybe some day you'll accomplish more than just passing through life, and you'll have something to make you feel justifiably proud.

[Zix]

118. .... but you're going to be condescending anyway.

Who were you talking to, in that post?

[Erin Elizabeth]

123. She was talking to me, the little 39 year old kid

with delicate sensibilities who hasn't ever experienced hardship like they did back in the day.

God. I'd laugh if it weren't so sad, you know?

[Zix]

128. It's only some of them, but it's like they're talking to themselves in front of us.

I've no idea what they think they're doing...

[pipi_k]

188. BWahahahah....now this is funny!!!

We're sitting here "talking to ourselves" in front of you (which possibly means we're unbalanced) yet some of you are talking back to us even though we could be unbalanced and you don't know what you think we're doing.

Who's crazier?


:rofl:

[Zix]

218. shrug.

[pipi_k]

170. I didn't say you never experienced hardships...

What I DID say...or tried to say, anyway, is that if the worst thing that ever happened to you was that your parents...perhaps a whole bunch of "Boomers" kept on and on about how great things were back then, you would be lucky.

Obviously, it's not the worst thing, judging by your recounting of some very awful things, for which I'm sorry you had to go through.

Very few people get through life unscathed.


Focus on healing from the REAL hurts of the past. Not the imagined ones like being forced to listen to hour after hour of "Highlights from the 60s" or whatever.


Seems like you have a lot of anger and contempt for Baby Boomers in general.

[Erin Elizabeth]

223. God, lady. Do you ever stop making assumptions?

Did you even read the bottom of my post? 12 years of successful therapy, thankyouverymuch. I've forgiven them. They're sad and messed up but SAD AND MESSED UP PEOPLE EXIST IN EVERY GENERATION. AND TWO PEOPLE ARE NOT A GENERATION.

See how I totally understand and get that? LOL.

What I have is fatigue from 39 years of hearing your generation's overhyped PR. THAT is what THIS THREAD IS ABOUT. If you don't like my opinion, walk on by.

[pipi_k]

244. I give up

Seriously.

You are so pissed off that you can't even be civil.

And you are so pissed of that you can't even see that I'm NOT talking about your parents.

I've tried to explain it the best I can, but you seem bent on insisting that my entire argument is based on your relationship with your parents.

And no...you don't get it.

[Odin2005]

110. LOL, you just gave me an image of the future with old geezer Xers listing to Def Leppard and Kiss!

:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

144. Ad Nauseam

Ad Naseum?!! Didn't you say you're an English teacher?

Your bitterness over boomers seems to be a lot more personal to you than a rational conclusion based upon life experiences. There aren't many on the thread who really loathe boomers, but it is clear that you do. Are boomers the people who run the school district where you teach?

[Erin Elizabeth]

224. Oh my, a typo I didn't catch?

That NEVER happens to English teachers!

No, the more I have to deal with straw men and condescension and people being deliberately obtuse, the more annoyed I get. It tends to happen to most people.

Are you trying to get personal with me? Another straw man? Yes, I must hate my bosses, that's it! LOL, it's got to be ANYTHING except the fact that the boomer generation has overhyped themselves for nigh on 40 years and some people are tired of hearing it, right?

:rofl:

Let's see if you can come up with another reason besides the very simple one I've given over and over again. Oooo I know! A man who was a baby boomer RAPED ME, right? That must be it! Or maybe a woman who was a baby boomer STOLE MY HUSBAND FROM ME! AND STOLE MY BABY!

This is fun. See what else you can come up with.

[lunatica]

88. You made me laugh out loud!

You have me imagining us oldsters with jazzed up wheelchairs and walkers with (Oh please,please!) different non skid rubber thingies. Hopefully blue hair and saggy knee hi stockings with be out. But I bet viagra will still be around so maybe it doesn't matter since we can all have that freeee sex again!

LOL! I can see why you might want to throw up! The thought of my parents having any kind of fun in their old age is revolting too!

:hi:

[Odin2005]

107. +1

That last paragraph = :rofl:

[TexasObserver]

143. One should outgrow mom and dad issues in their 20s.

Such bitter thoughts as you express should be gone by the time one is 30, and certainly after one has become a parent.

Maybe you'll come to appreciate your parents more, and feel less in their shadow some day.

[mitchum]

147. That's more than a little ironic coming from a Woodstock Nationalist

just saying...

[TexasObserver]

149. I'm not a Woodstock Nationalist.

When you grow older, you'll understand that one learns to leave behind mommy and daddy issues.

[mitchum]

150. Okay, but it is a nice term, isn't it?

Were mommy and daddy issues not a cornerstone of the identity of Woodstock Nation? Sorry, but I don't know how to make the little (TM) trademark symbol

[TexasObserver]

155. No, that term has no meaning.

You're conflating a number of things.

I wasn't at Woodstock. I was in military, far, far away. Didn't see it until years later.

I wasn't a hippie, but I did come back to join the anti war movement, to march in the streets, to oppose our continued presence in Vietnam, and to help bring the war to an end. I was 21 when I came home from two tours.

Woodstock was an iconic event which represented a precipice of the era. It was a bright, shining moment emblematic of change, of fighting forces that resisted change, of standing up to oppression, and of turning a tortured country away from war in a manner that has not happened since.

[mitchum]

156. What I am getting at is...

while nationalism depends in large measure upon a sense of superiority/identity merely because one happens to have been born in America, Germany, Freedonia...
I get a lot of that same sense of superiority/identity from many citizens of "Woodstock Nation" merely because they happened to fall in a certain generational demographic.
Snarky? Yes, but in that sense it does have meaning.
You actually did DO something rather than just be...groovy. And it is much appreciated.

[Odin2005]

168. Wow, projection alert!

I have mo problems with my parents, that was the Boomers' specialty.

[pipi_k]

171. Thank you for your wise words...

My son had issues with me for years. Granted, he had reason to, but that's beside the point. I've never met a Perfect Parent except for the ones who proclaim that they are, but anyway...

My son had issues with me.

then he had kids of his own.

Now he understands. He understands that no parent consciously sets forth to hurt his or her child, but does the best s/he can using whatever knowledge is in the "toolbox", so to speak. Whatever we learned from our own parents.


My daughter has never had issues with me, but I'm not sure if it's because she just hasn't acknowledged a lot of justified anger, or maybe she just got a different Mom than my son did...whatever...she has a child also. She now understands that being a parent is one of the hardest jobs anyone could ever do.

Their life with me wasn't as horrible as mine with my own parents. I had lots of anger toward my parents for a long time until I got into a 12 Step group, and I was able to work through it. I now see them more kindly.

Each time I was tempted to hate my parents for what they did, I imagined them being helpless little children living lives I could not even imagine. It does help in the healing process...

:)

[TexasObserver]

176. One chooses the narrative they will have for their life.

If I wanted to paint a picture of a harsh life and deprivations, I could pick and choose and do so with my life. Try knowing dozens of young men who served with you, who died in a terrible war that you and they thought was right when you joined up.

Will you let those events dominate your life when you return, or will you become the guy who never lets that go? Will you have an irrational and consuming hatred for Asians, or will you recognize that other men who had families and only wanted what is best for them killed some of your friends, maybe heinously, because you were wrong to be there?

Do you use your experience to make better ones for the family you build, or do you become the star of your neverending tragedy? Do you carry bitterness, or do you find joy at what you have now?

People who cannot let go of past bitterness will always be afflicted by it, and they usually take it out on completely innocent people, who had nothing to do with whatever torments them.

[RandomKoolzip]

235. "People who cannot let go of past bitterness will always be afflicted by it,..."

Right. And I'm sure you guys all forgave Nixon. :eyes:

[Erin Elizabeth]

227. You're the one that brought up the parents angle and now I see

it's you who has the problem. This is about your son and HIS problems with YOU.

Well, stop making it personal because this isn't about YOU. I don't even know you. This also isn't about my parents, two people who simply have major problems and two people I forgave well over a decade ago and moved on.

ALL this is about is being tired of the overhyped baby boomers and their PR. That's it. Nothing less, nothing more. My opinion, your mileage may vary.

Now, in case you are tempted to go down another crazy road, re-read the four sentences right above this paragraph. Re-read them again if you have to. And again.

[Erin Elizabeth]

225. Look! It's another straw man!

In fact, that was a straw man based on a straw man (the original "must be hatred for your parents" one being brought up by someone else). Good job, advanced straw-manning, LOL.

This has nothing to do with my parents, who are only two people, but with being sick of hearing about your generation's awesome incredibleness my entire life. Overhyped and overexposed, that's your generation. And some of us just very plainly wish you would give it a rest. For once. Just for a little while.

But it must be something else, right? Gotta be some other reason? LOL.

[mitchum]

146. In twenty years time, you should be selling them some type of afterlife spirituality...

where they get to have hair and muscle tone again...and keep all of their stuff.
I plan on flattering and hustling them when they get to that point where they can almost make out the reaper's eye color.
It will be a huge fucking business.

[Erin Elizabeth]

228. Absolutely!

That should work.

[mitchum]

267. I AM really serious; it will be a huge can't miss growth industry...

there are so many of them
and they are so predictable

You would grow broke trying to sell them irony, though. They seem to be absolutely resistant to it, don't they?

[pipi_k]

51. People are talking about the drugs and sex being better back then...also

the music.


Personally, I think most of the really good music died sometime back in the mid 90s, if not before.

But the best music of all happened during the Woodstock Era.


I've sometimes wondered if it's just me acting like a pissy old fart and hating anything new, but I don't think so.

Most of the music nowadays just plain SUCKS. I mean, it's not even MELODIC, for crissakes....

And can anyone in his/her right mind even imagine somebody like Britney Spears, etc still being relevant 40 years from now? Uh, uh. Don't think so...

[Erin Elizabeth]

55. I think people tend to look on the music of their teen and young

adult years as the "best music." It's important to remember there's ALWAYS great music and bad music. Always. I was a teenager in the 80s and absolutely love a lot of the music that came out of that decade. But a lot of it was also utter crap that should never be played again, ever.

It's all just opinions, I guess.

[Chemisse]

69. I think it says a lot that the music of that time is still being

Rediscovered by new generations. It was awesome.

That said, I am totally sick of hearing the same music for 40 years. I love the modern music - alternative, punk rock, a bit of rap, it is all refreshingly different.

You can't get stuck in a decade; life goes on and new generations give us so much new stuff to enjoy.

[Erin Elizabeth]

72. True yes. I got very burned out on the music of the late 60s

because I heard it constantly growing up.

But there was a LOT to like about the 70s. And going way back, I tend to really like the music of the 1920. I love big band stuff, too--mostly the 40s.

[pipi_k]

89. Benny Goodman...Glenn Miller...

They're my two favorites from the 40s.

:)

[Odin2005]

112. I love Jazz and Big Band, too!

:woohoo:

[Chemisse]

125. We were stuck listening to Frank Sinatra

And watching Lawrence Welk every Sunday night. We had to hear blow-by-blow about WWII and how incredibly lucky we were not to live in the Great Depression. And we were given a set of societal rules that fit like a straight jacket (thus the rebellion).

Every generation has to put up with the shadow cast by the ones before it.

[pipi_k]

174. We used to watch Lawrence Welk each week too

Who the hell were those sisters who always sang on his show...the Lennon Sisters I think?

[Chemisse]

208. oh yeah! I remember them - gods, haven't thought of them in decades

I had paper dolls of the Lennon Sisters. Diane was my favorite. I think there was a Janet too, don't recall the other 2 names.

[pipi_k]

246. Here they are!

Dianne, Peggy, Kathy, and Janet...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lennon_Sisters


Also...and I didn't know this...they also performed with Andy Williams during the 70s.

[pipi_k]

86. I was born in 1952 but I still really liked a lot of the 80s music

even though I was an adult with kids of my own by then.

In fact, I still do think some really good stuff came out in the 80s, and I have lots of compilation cds with 60s,70s, and 80s music on them.

Can't really think of too many dreadful songs during the 80s. Not right now, anyway.

It just seems like there's more "yuck" music these days than, say, 15 years ago. Some good, but most...bleh.

[Erin Elizabeth]

92. Oh seriously there was some MAJOR dreck in the 80s!

LOL! Just check out any list of one hit wonders from that decade. Or heck, from any decade. Actually some of the one hit wonders were really good, but a lot were just AWFUL. Enough to make you want to plunge screwdrivers in your ears.

And I guess this is ME being old, but I really wasn't all that impressed with the music of the 90s.

[pipi_k]

111. Are you thinking maybe of someone like

Boy George?


I have a confession to make...

I actually like "Clock of the Heart" and "Crying Game"


nooooo please don't hit me! :7

[Erin Elizabeth]

119. Oh no. People and bands who are

understandably and deservably forgotten! Not him!

[pipi_k]

173. What band or singer would you put in that category? I'm trying to think of some

but I can't....


I mean, I can give quite a few examples from contemporary bands/singers...

IMO, someone like Sheryl Crow or Norah Jones is totally forgettable.



I'm honestly wracking my brain for 80s flops...will keep thinking though...

:)

[Cetacea]

162. True. However millions of kids are listening to Hendrix,Beatles, etc

The average Pink Floyd concert attendee is 19. Maybe it's just that the younger people have far mopre access to music than boomers did. But I have had conversations with young people and I see their posts on you tube. They believe the music was better.

[juno jones]

60. It's the other side of the coin.

The baby boomers who played it safe and weren't hippies finally get their chance to be angry, lawless protesters. I think of it as a pair of bookends to an era.

[lunatica]

63. In the 60s we majorily disrespected our 'square' parents

Are you kidding?! We're not being disrespected just because our children are angry. They have a right to be angry at what they face. We were angry at our parents. They had sold out to The Man. They were so stupid in our eyes!

It sure as hell isn't their fault everything has turned to crap. I don't think it's the entire Boomer generation's fault because we were always split into a schizophrenic personality generation with half of us wanting to move into a relaxed and anti-establishment future that we could envision so well when we were young and the other half kept their crew cuts and became the good Republicans. Women moved into the workplace knowing we would change everything, but the 'establishment' won. The world was still ruled by the same old men. Bush and Dick Armey are Boomers too and I certainly can't blame the younger generation for being angry about that because I'm angry about it too. Who else can they blame?

And really, who else is to blame about things as they are now if not us?

[GReedDiamond]

71. It's very strange isn't it? I'll put forth the following thoughts...

...knowing that I know most here could care less what I think about anything.

1) The threads which are posted proclaiming the Glory and Godhead represented by "Woodstock" are over the top. It was, I think, a historical event, with plenty of noteworthy musical performances, and worthy of attention on its 40th anniversary, but it was not quite a moment of Paradise/Utopia realized. If nothing else, it opened up the idea of massive festivals to exploitation by corporate interests.

2) The threads that denounce "Woodstock" as "just another music festival, with highly overrated musical performances," or, as hedonistic/narcissistic drug-drenched sexcapades (including many, many rapes, as claimed by one poster in another thread) by a bunch of trendies/hippies-turned-republicans, who are later responsible for electing Reagan, are likewise over the top.

The "truth" is somewhere in between, I suspect. Or somewhere within the web of personal/societal events which unfurled within the cultural/political landscape of the last forty+ years. Meaning anything is possible, and no particular "generation" is any more or less guilty of anything, as a default setting.

ON "HIPPIES":
Hippies morphed out of the Beats. And the Beats were culturally/artistically related to the Dadaists and the Surrealists (circa 1915-1955), before them. Some (probably quite a few) "hippies" back in the day were pre-Boomer. People born in the 1930s or so, too young to be in the so-called "Greatest" Generation, but too old to be "Boomers." I'm not sure what they are called. But they may have been hippies too.

Myself, circa 1970, as a fifteen y.o., I was a Yippie! but never really a "hippie." In my high school, I was amongst a group of politically active, long-haired, dope-smoking radicals that numbered less than fifty, out of a student body of around three thousand. There were some (more than us) "hippies" too, but they were the trendy, fashion oriented version. They liked to party too, you betcha! They are what became known as "the stoners." The truth is, us yippies and hippies were in a distinct minority, so, yes, many "Boomers" voted for Reagan, because they were never "Hippies" to begin with, they were always right wing shits, from day one.

PUNK ROCK:
Punk rock was started by "Boomers." Generally speaking, the first two waves of punk rock in America (and elsewhere, like UK) were produced by bands whose members were born post WWII and 1960 or so. I think I saw somebody on another thread somewhere say that Gen Xers came up with the punk rock. Not true. Actually, the GenXers and all other subsequent "Generations" came along and fucked punk rock up beyond recognition. Real punk rock was dead by 1984. IMHO. (However, I am, admittedly, painting with the very broad brush, using my most opaque color saturation, cuz I know there are shining stellar examples to the contrary.)

IOW, somebody needs to make punk rock scary, and, do-it-yourself, again.

Edited for clarity.

[Chemisse]

133. I like your observations and historical persective

And this comment is a fact that is underrecognized:

"yes, many "Boomers" voted for Reagan, because they were never "Hippies" to begin with, they were always right wing shits, from day one."


Hippies were rebels from all of society, including the majority of our peers left back at home. Most boomers seem to adopt the counterculture as their own - a possession of that generation - when actually only a small percentage of all the young people of the day were truly out there living the hippie lifestyle.

[Garbo 2004]

148. Good points. nt

[Cetacea]

163. " it was not quite a moment of Paradise/Utopia realized"

That's th only sentence in your excellent post that I take issue with. It WAS a moment of Paradise for many of the people who were there. The film can show mud and some excellent bands, but it can't capture what people were actually feeling.

[Mari333]

74. i dont think a lot of us boomers care what other people think of us

we are too busy

[lunatica]

94. LOL! Only we have viagra now so we can still have funnnn!

AND free sex!

Pass the joint

[Fire1]

109. Puff puff pass!

[TexasObserver]

75. Jealousy, mainly, and parental resentments, secondarily.

Those are the reasons for the attacks on Woodstock, boomers, hippies, and the whole era.

It's the last time radical change was effected. The youngsters do not appreciate that Woodstock followed a six year social revolution that was staggering in its reach. Those of us who lived through the assassinations of JFK, MLK, and RFK in under five years, who lived through the race riots and church bombings of the mid 60s, who lived through the rise and fall of the Vietnam juggernaut and the anti war movement, who lived through the space race, and the nuclear stand off in Cuba know that it was a special time. We saw the sexual revolution, the burning of the bra, the emergence of real feminism, the pill, abortion, and the emerging of miscegenation.

1963-1973 was simply one of the most significant periods in the history of the nation.

This current era has one major accomplishment - the election of Obama, and that is huge.

The main cultural contribution of this era, however, is texting - which will be remembered as the generation that killed syntax, grammar, spelling, the concept of sentences, punctuation, and the concept of paragraphs.

[Erin Elizabeth]

90. Lord.

1. I love being called a "youngster." Please do it some more, because seriously, at my age, that sounds awesome. (I'm being sincere!)

2. The stuff about texting is silly and condescending. The MAIN cultural contribution of this era? Texting? That's really all you can come up with? Please look around you some more. There are certainly more compelling cultural contributions nowdays than TEXTING.

As for killing syntax, grammar, etc.? Balderdash. I'm an English teacher, and kids learn and know the difference between different language and writing registers. They know (or you TEACH them) that you can write this way when texting, this way when writing a formal essay, and yet another way when sending an email to your mom. Registers of language. They've been with us since we've been speaking and writing and texting is simply another register.

[Odin2005]

120. LOL, I have an interest in linguistics and "grammar Nazis" drive me nuts.

"I Ain't got no..." isn't "bad English", it's just informal. That's why there is a formal written standard, so people that speak any English dialect can understand each others formal documents.

[TexasObserver]

122. FAIL

You probably see that a lot, don't you?

[TexasObserver]

121. You seem to be confused.

I'll not take issue with your perception of the writing skills of today's youth. I'll save that argument for someone who isn't as pleasant.

[Erin Elizabeth]

129. Yes, actually I seem to be.

Haven't had any complaints by those around me!

But on this topic, yes, I have disdain for people who sit around being drama queens about "THE DEATH OF ____________!!!!" I work with English teachers who feel if they don't pound the kids with five million grammar worksheets a month, they'll just turn out to be hopeless losers and they say the same exact things you did in that post. (And their poor students are poor writers because they only understand usage skills in isolation, not in context.)

Nothing's dying. It's a different register of language, that's all. A responsible English teacher knows to teach the kids the difference, if they don't already know, and stop fretting over something as silly as texting.

[TexasObserver]

132. I'm sure you recognize hyperbole when you see it.

I'm just sayin'...

[Erin Elizabeth]

135. Yes, and I also recognize tone

and your tone was serious and it's disingenuous of you to now claim it was just hyperbole.

But whatever floats your boat, ma'am. Good night.

[TexasObserver]

137. No, apparently not.

If you need smilies as clues, I cannot accommodate you.

[Fire1]

97. You nailed it! n/t

[Cetacea]

164. Excellent post. I would add that the era changed the arts as well. n/t

[TexasObserver]

255. Yes, it was a very rich era for the arts.

[Odin2005]

83. Us younger generations get sick of Boomer "we are the Crown of Creation" narcissism.

[SeattleGirl]

91. It's all in your head

I don't know any of my fellow boomers who run around crowing such crap.

[Erin Elizabeth]

95. I don't know people who personally do that

but I think it's been more of a societal/media creation that's been on a never-ending loop since that time.

I believe that's what the poster is referring to, could be wrong. But I do feel the same way and have run into many people, primarily those born just after that generation, who feel the same way.


That being said, just discussing all this is re-igniting my 60s fatigue and I was JUST getting to the point where I could appreciate it, so I better move on to other things.

[SeattleGirl]

99. I agree, it's mostly a societal/media creation.

Woodstock seems to be the primary icon of the '60's, yet a lot of us were too young for that, but still part of that generation.

Saying that all boomers are the same is saying that all people of all generations are just the same: a reflection of a primary icon of their generation. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[Odin2005]

124. Yes, you got what I meant!

Anything repetitive gets REALLY OLD after a while! :)

[Fire1]

103. "Cause it was just my imagination, running away with me" LOL!!

[lunatica]

100. If you don't want to be painted with a broad stereotype brush that doesn't fit

Maybe you shouldn't do the same to everyone else. Really, the only Boomer I know who thinks God anointed him personally is Bush. He's certainly not the best example to paint all Boomers by.

[Odin2005]

127. What do you think the "Hippies = God" thread was?

[GReedDiamond]

114. "Crown of Creation" was not narcissism...

...it was the condemnation of the death culture as represented by the nuke-weapon-embracing corporatists of the day, the ones who were carrying on the Viet Nam War and building up and further entrenching/institutionalizing the military-industrial-prison complex, while also demonizing and declaring war on the American subculture known as the "hippies." You apparently know very little about the sociopolitical/pop-cultural history of the last forty years, or you would have not selected that particular phrase for the target of your ignorance.

Also note that the lyric says "YOU are the crown of creation," not "We" or "I am."

So, if you don't want to be the "Crown of Creation," that is your choice, not the Jefferson Airplane's, or mine.

[Odin2005]

126. Ah, thanks for the correction about the label.

:hi:

[RagAss]

140. Amen.....Woodstock wasn't even the biggest event of 1969.

1. Man on the Moon.
2. The New York Jets force the NFL merger with the biggest upset in history.
3. The New York Mets shock the baseball world by winning the World Series.
4. People fuck, smoke dope and shit in the mud in Woodstock, New York.

1969 = "Caught between the moon and New York City !

[RadiationTherapy]

116. I don't see anger nor the sentiment 'hippies suck'.

The 'my generation is better' comment is certainly evident in this thread, but not against boomers.

For me the point is that nostalgia doesn't rectify 40+ years our culture demonstrating none of the hippie ideals that were touted during that unique time. Not only is our country more materialistic and consumerist than ever, there are very very few enclaves where communion, brotherhood, sisterhood, reverence for nature and childlike curiosity are demonstrated. I have been to a dozen rainbow gatherings and meetings, attended bread and puppet in northern vermont, lived in the national forest, traveled by backpack and bus to Costa Rica and back with a 6yr old, 4yr old, and a 2yr old. I have only had glimpses of communion; there is no enduring legacy. Something faded and the country turned hard right.

[Cetacea]

166. You nailed it. Great post. n/t

[Cetacea]

232. I liked it until you expanded on it in your new thread. n/t

[RagAss]

134. I was 10 years old in 1969.....but even I knew....

Neil Armstrong landed a tin can on the fucking moon, walked around and they all came home alive.....the greatest achievement in the history of mankind up to that point in time!

That same summer a bunch of freaks fucked each other, shit and smoked dope in the mud in upstate New York.

Jeez....is it so tough ????

[Texasgal]

136. Is it tough?

what? For me to try to understand the anger directed about woodstock,boomers and hippies?

[RagAss]

138. Believe me...I'm a radical Liberal...check my history on this board.....

But Woodstock wasn't even the most significant event of 1969.

[Texasgal]

139. Okay.

That's fine.

People are talking about it because it's the 40th anniversary, otherwise I doubt we'd be even having this conversation.

many people who attended woodstock felt it was significant to THEM. What's wrong with that?

[RagAss]

141. Nothing is wrong with that.

[petronius]

154. I don't see any of the hate you're describing. As I skim the threads, it appears

that much of what you perceive as hate is the normal reaction to a couple of OPs deifying the Woodstock generation ("hippies=god") and making the case that Woodstock was the culmination of western civilization (or perhaps human evolution). I joined in initially because I thought the threads were lighthearted banter, but I've come to the opinion that a few of the posters, now complaining of being persecuted, were 100% serious in their elevation of Woodstock to the pinnacle of some sort of cultural pantheon...

In other words, it's not hate you're seeing - it's irritation at a prolonged exercise in public auto-fellatio.

[Texasgal]

157. I never said anything about hate

in fact, never even used the word. I used the word anger and I've seen anger in these threads. I was simply curious.

[petronius]

158. You're right, I see that the H word came from other posters

Doesn't change my answer, however, whether you call it anger, venom, vitriol, or whatever you will...

[LWolf]

203. "A bunch of freaks."

Yep. Peace, freedom from authoritarianism, civil rights....freaky people. Technological advancement is way better than that.

My friends and family were some of those "freaks," and while I was riveted to my tv, and then out in the streets with everyone staring up at the moon, I'll back the things those "freaks" stood for over space travel any day.

[TeeYiYi]

142. Trying to be helpful...

Isn't there a music sub-category we could file this topic under? (As an adjunct to the recent general-discussion golf thread that was banished to the sports dungeon...)

TYY :P ...Just sayin'

:hide:

[mitchum]

145. Maybe some are just tired of...smugness?

[AngryAmish]

177. The cultural domination of the Boomers makes us non-Boomers chafe

For as long as I can remember (I'm 40) the Boomers have dominated the culture in a very obnoxious way.

Why do you think Woodstock looms so large in the culture? Well, when one sees that it was planned by east coast media/power elite, attended by what became the east coast media/power elite and lionized by the east coast media power/elite it is a bit of an one note band.

Woodstock the concert was a flop - but they had rights to movies and records. Thaty was commodified and relentless pushed to consumptioon.

If one object, then one is jealous (the Paris Hilton defense) or one hates their parents (my parents were not Boomers).

As someone once said around here: The Boomers went from blaming their parents to blaming their children.

[TexasObserver]

183. What is this cultural domination of which you speak?

Now, go get your fucking shine box!!

(It's from Goodfellows, starring ... Boomers, and it's a favorite line of Jon Stewart.)


But seriously, isn't 40 a little old to still carry generational antipathy based up jealousy? What's stopping YOUR generation? It sounds a lot like the grumbling little brother of the popular and successful older brother, the little brother who broods about his place in the pecking order, but never does anything about it but complain.

[AngryAmish]

187. Again, a prime example of the Paris Hilton defense of "they are just jealous"

I am not jealous. the only thing I regret (generatinally) is that I will die and I don't get to live in the future. I do not want to live in the past with their environmental degradation, racism and violence that was so predominant during the precious 60s.

And asking the questions of my generation: the fact that we are not perfect should not prevent one from examining, acknowledging and trying to remediate the shortcomings of one's own generation.

[TexasObserver]

189. Jealous?! Yeah, I farted.

--- Amy Poehler, SNL


Your comments are unbecoming an adult of 40. Stop blaming anyone who comes before you or after you. If you're bitter, blame the guy in the mirror.

[Evoman]

205. I have no dogs in this fight....but, by the gods, are you ever patronizing and condescending.

I can see why people are getting "angry". It's not about jealousy, or generational hate. It's about being irritated that people can be so goddamned condescending. I don't know that I even agree with the person your arguing with, but even I am getting irritated by your smugness.

[TexasObserver]

211. Show him what's he's won, Don Pardo!

Aw, nothing's behind door number two.

Thanks for playing.

[Erin Elizabeth]

230. Wow. Are you really in your 60s?

I guess it's true, you have to get older but you don't have to grow up. You're acting like a child.

[TexasObserver]

243. No. I'm really in my 50s. Wow. Are you really out of high school?

[Erin Elizabeth]

229. It's interesting that you just said exactly what I have been saying

and exactly what I've heard many many Generation Xers say. Almost word for word. It's 60s fatigue, boomers fatigue, woodstock fatigue.

But as you said, as soon as you say so, you're either jealous or, as you saw above, I must HATE my parents! LOL. That approach was actually used in this thread. After claiming I can't understand because I've never been through anything (damn, I used to hear that when I was 19, not when pushing 40).

All you can do is laugh.

[rapturedbyrobots]

178. where to begin

the only reason the hippie is allowed to endure as the cultural icon of the 60s is exactly because they were completely non-threatening and ineffective at stopping the right turn of the 70s and 80s. i mean, it was essentially a movement of middle class white kids getting high and fucking each other. who cares? while you guys were busy convincing yourselves that taking a few hits of acid and rolling around in the mud was going to change the world there were people like the black panthers actually fighting to create a new world in their own communities. there were people of color all over the south doing the heavy lifting of the civil rights movement. there were poor people of all colors working nationwide fighting for labor reforms. but you guys were busy getting high and fucking. great job. and the irony of it all is that is exactly what people of color and the poor are shat on for all the time...not working...getting high...and being overly sexual. i guess it's only revolutionary when middle class white kids do it. so yeah...we're tired of hearing old hippies talk about how great it was. because really it was NOTHING compared to the birth of the global anti-capitalist movement in seattle 99.

[livetohike]

192. Oh really?

People aren't even talking about the global anti-capitalist movement in seattle 99 ten years later. What really came of it anyway? A few people holding signs and playing wannabe protesters.

[rapturedbyrobots]

195. that's kind of the point

we don't dwell on some singular event that happened a decade (or worse 4 decades) ago. it was only the beginning of something bigger, and is relatively unimportant compared to the struggle that continues today in our daily lives. what matters is the ways that event inspired people ALL OVER THE WORLD to organize not just protests, but to organize their communities in ways that go beyond resistance and last for multiple generations.

[livetohike]

201. I agree

:toast: and I really hope that type of community builds.

[TexasObserver]

198. I have a suggestion.

Maybe if you'd do more "getting high and fucking" you wouldn't be so angry!

LOOK AT ME! I'M MAD AT THE HIPPIES, WHO ONLY EXIST AS A CARICATURE IN MY HEAD!


It wasn't just fucking and doing drugs, although those were certainly HIGH points.

[rapturedbyrobots]

216. Haha

I've done plenty of both. Ravers made hippies look like amatuers in those departments. But we never pretended it was anything more than just getting high and fucking. And yes I'm still mad.

[madmom]

179. Let's see, I was born in the mid 50's. When I was growing up I was inundated with

storming the beaches of Europe, walking to school in 3 feet of snow uphill both ways, having to wear hand me downs because you didn't spent "good money" on clothes, having to work in the fields at young ages, I could go on. It's just that every generation has animosity toward the "memories" of the previous generation. The only reason you are hearing more about the glory days of the boomers is because the generations before us didn't have or hadn't figured out how to use the airwaves to their benefit yet. It was still new and used for "important" stuff.
Both of my kids are boomer incarnates. One is 30-something, the other in her 20's. They both love the 60-70's style music and lifestyle (non-materialistic)they were raised around. My son idolizes Jim Morrison. My daughter's ipod is full of songs I know every lyric too. They are both strong dems and work toward fixing social injustices and environmental problems. So as far as I can see we must have done SOMETHING right.:shrug:

[pipi_k]

184. One more reason why they could be hearing more of it than we did

is because there are more of us to hear it from!


They didn't call our generation "Baby Boomers" for nothing...


We're here, we're there...we're everywhere!


(that's from a cartoon but I can't remember which one)

:7


PS... I heard all the same stories you've pointed out, plus some...one of my dad's favorite stories was getting one pair of shoes per year and having to go barefoot all summer. If that one pair of shoes got a hole in the sole, you just got a piece of cardboard and stuck it inside the shoe.

If your feet grew, too bad. You wore them until your next pair of shoes.

[madmom]

190. LOL yes I heard that one too, also sneakers bought at GoodWill were their "good" shoes.

[TexasObserver]

199. Thank you!! WWII and the Depression. Did they ever shut up about it?

The Greatest Generation was the greatest at ragging our asses about how hard they had it. Now we gotta hear from Generation X, Generation Next, and Generation Mul-n-e-lls (texted, of course) about how easy we had it?!

Actually, I find it hilarious, because blaming "generations" is just stupid. When we're 25 we're one way, when we're 45 we're another way. WE all change as we all age, and we gain new understanding of those who have come before us, and why they confounded us when we were younger.

[eShirl]

181. hippies were unable to eliminate 100% of war, hate, and meanness from the world forever and ever

damn them!

[pipi_k]

186. Yeah, dirty lying fuckers!!!!!

;)

[Javaman]

185. It wouldn't be DU without misplaced anger! :) lol nt

[NoSheep]

191. Sour grapes?

[Confusious]

196. succinctly?

They did alot of drugs and listened to music. There was no mind blowing higher meaning. How do I know?

They then voted for raygun and bush.

[Jennicut]

197. Its simple, every generation hates the generation of their parents

I am positive my kids (ages 4 and 5) will be sick of me telling them that we had tapes, rented VCRs, that we remember when we got our first microwave, that we were the MTV generation, that we still had tag at school, that our recess time was longer, that we were allowed to play outside by ourselves for hours at a time and no one cared, that we barely used seat belts and never had to wear helmets when riding our bikes, that some of us listened to some music from Seattle and wore flannel shirts, etc. They will shout at me one day...so what? Who cares about you, you are old and irrelevant! I think that is the gist of it, LOL.
Seriously, I love the music that came out in the 60's and believe that many ideals of the hippies were good ideals. Yes, it did not work out perfectly for them but are Gen Xers or Millenials going to be any different? Some baby boomers ended up being the jerks they so despised and some turned out okay.

[TexasObserver]

200. So true. Getting over that is when you know you're really grown.

When you realize it's just a cycle we all ride along, taking the path that aging brings, you can overcome the silliness of thinking one generation is greater and one generation is lesser.

When you're in grade school, life is grade school. And for college, life is college. There's a reason the word "exuberance" is often preceded by "youthful." Fools rush in where angels and old farts dare not tread.

I can remember in the 1970s I read something written in ancient Rome, over 2000 years ago, complaining mightily of "today's youth." It sounded exactly like the crap written about youth in the 1960s and 1970s.

[pipi_k]

250. That's what I don't understand...

I never hated the generation of my parents....oh sure, we heard the usual "We had it worse but things were better than today" stuff, but I really didn't have anything against their generation.

In some ways, I think I was a bit envious, because it seemed the world was way less complicated and more innocent then, even though there were awful things that happened in Japan and Germany during WWII.

I always wanted to spend one day back then to see what it was like...

[Jennicut]

259. I know. I want to be transported to the 60's for a week

and check it out for myself.

[pipi_k]

262. I wish you could too...

as the opening line says, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times".

I would like to go back again myself.

That's one of the great things about the music, though. I can listen to it and be instantly transported (in my mind) to an exact day when that particular song was playing. I can see surroundings, smell smells, hear and feel things just as they were. It's sort of strange, really.

If you've ever seen the movie "Somewhere In Time" with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour, where he ends up going back to meet a singer whose picture he has fallen in love with, it's sort of like that.

For me, that's why the music means so much...it's like a bridge to another time.

anyway, I do wish you could go back and experience it, only without knowledge of the present.

:)

[LWolf]

202. I think it comes from

younger people who have not had examples of inspirational liberal/left leadership from their generations. They see Obama as that leader, and he himself has blatantly distanced himself from the generation that protested, that marched, that supported peace and civil rights.

Remember when he threw a whole generation under the bus:

I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what's different are the times. I do think that for example the 1980 was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

Many people are playing "follow the leader."

The rest of it comes from those who the young people at the time were protesting.

[LanternWaste]

206. The Generational Cycle.

The Ever-Lasting, Generational Cycle.

I can easily imagine an entire generation of medieval youths complaining about the stoic, passive, sell-outs their parent's generation had become, while the village elders dismiss the new sounds coming from the Hurdy-Gurdy.



"We wouldn't have these dark ages if our parent's generations had simply stuck to their convictions"
"Word! Dark Ages suck-- hehehe!"



"Look at those kids wasting their lives-- every last one of them thinking they're going write the next 'Greensleeves... And check out the silly way 'yon Geoffrey of Milam has his breeches pulled down."

[TexasObserver]

210. so true!

with his fancy smancy wood winds and new lyrics!

[my sweet lard]

207. The bashers of hippies are nothing but haters...

Hey, I was only a toddler in 1969, but I wish I could have been old enough to live thru those times. Being a crunchy granola soul amidst preppies and yuppies in the '80s was sheer hell. Thank God the '90s came along!:D

[ContinentalOp]

209. As a music fan, it's the cultural ignorance that really frustrates me.

There's a persistent idea that the '60s created the best music ever. I have no complaint about that opinion on its own, but it's often accompanied by the implication that the younger generations are somehow to blame for the state of our music due to deficiencies in our priorities, talents, or motivation. It's the idea that we're all too busy playing videogames to create the next Hendrix or Woodstock.

The problem with this sentiment is that it ignores the enormous systemic forces that are working against contemporary music, much of them driven in part by the boomers in the '70s and '80s.

#1. The corporatization of the music industry in the '70s and '80s left us with a system where there is no artist development, no chances taken on unique, different artists, and no money invested in anything but attempting to get the next #1 hit. Many of the great artists of the '60s simply would not have had a chance within this system either.

#2. The death of radio, thanks in large part to the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and the subsequent monopolization of the industry by Clear Channel. Today's equivalent of Hendrix or Joplin would not get the airplay that those artists did in the '60s. The downward slide began in the '70s and '80s with payola, "indie pr" scams, and mob involvement, but the deregulation under the Clinton administration put the final nail in the coffin of radio.

#3. There has been a huge continuing decline in the live show, thanks on one side to the corporatization of the industry and the rise of expensive stadium shows. And on the other side, the small club scene has been under attack from many fronts. The increase in the drinking age in the '80s, thanks to groups like MADD and restrictive drinking laws that make all ages shows difficult to impossible in some towns have largely killed the live music scene among high school and college age kids. And when scenes like the punk or rave scenes did emerge they were under constant attack under law enforcement. The war on drugs is a huge factor here too.

#4. As discussed on another thread, the commodification of cool has created an environment where any new, unique expression is almost immediately co-opted by the advertising industry. Underground scenes are not often allowed to flourish and develop in obscurity for very long before being commercially exploited.

#5. Perhaps the biggest factor is simple demographics. It always drives me crazy when people ignore this element. Generation X is about a third the size of the baby boomer generation. So think of Jimi, Janis and Dylan: now pick only one and imagine that the other two were never born. Then randomly eliminate a couple members of the Beatles. That crowd at Woodstock would have only been 166,000 which is almost exactly the attendance of Coachella this year! And all across the board think of similar reductions: 1/3rd of the album sales, 1/3rd of the concert attendance, 1/3rd of the artists, and 1/3rd of the radio listeners.

And after all of that is the important, subjective point that there IS in fact contemporary music that is every bit as good as the music of the '60s.

[TexasObserver]

212. "There's a persistent idea that the '60s created the best music ever."

Because it's true.

[ContinentalOp]

213. OK, so accepting that it is true...

Do you agree with my analysis of the factors that have led to a decline in contemporary music? Or do you think there are other reasons?

[Cetacea]

236. If I may, it's almost perfect.

Marketing conditions destroyed prog rock as djs could no longer play an entire album side or twenty minutes of a Clapton solo. Protest folk music died a simular death. It basically went to hell due to the reasons you specified. In some ways the 60s music was too much of a good thing as corporations woke up to the fact that there was major profits to me made.

I do believe that LSD was a catalyst for a lot of songs that emerged from the sixties and seventies.
(I don't believe that drugs make you more creative than you actually are)

[Crowman1979]

240. Except for that nummy-yummy bubble gum pop crap.

Whereas anything that jarred authority was awesome!

[pipi_k]

251. Thank you so much...I was trying

very hard to think of some really heinous songs from the 60s and I'm still working on the 80s.

but yeah...

Yummy yummy yummy I got love in my tummy...


bubblegum pop music

the absolute worst.

[ContinentalOp]

254. Sgt. Barry Sadler - Ballad of the Green Berets

The top single of 1966!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

215. Not to forget the decline of music education in our public schools

When I was a little kid in the 50s, almost everyone from 4th grade on took up a musical instrument and received both personal and group instruction in the public schools up to 12th grade. Since the days of Reagan and proposition 13 and similar so-called taxpayer revolts, the schools have been cutting such things as the arts and musical programs and concentrating on the three Rs. I think musical appreciation has taken a hard hit in this country from the fact that fewer young people are being exposed to great music in our schools.

By the way, I think you've written an excellent post, worthy of its own thread.

[ContinentalOp]

217. Great point. Although some of us Gen Xers were still lucky enough to experience those benefits.

I had that kind of musical education in elementary school in the '80s but it obviously depends on where you lived. By now musical education seems to be pretty much gutted across the board so I think it might have the biggest effect on this generation that's still in school now.

And thanks for the compliment on my post. I've certainly written my share of idiotic stuff about boomers and other topics so it's nice to hear that I don't always come across as an insane idiot. :P

[G_j]

237. & many of those who became stars back then

wouldn't be given the time of day by the music industry today.
You are absolutely correct.
There is truly great music out there today. As a musician, it blows my mind how awesome some of it is.
Few of today's stars are great musicians, unfortunately. Most of the real musicians struggle to make a living.

[ContinentalOp]

256. I think a lot of them would still be around, putting albums out and playing shows.

But they would be on small indie labels. They wouldn't be given the time and money to really develop as artists. They might not necessarily have access to the same caliber of studios, producers, arrangers, etc. They might have a day job and be unable to make a fulltime living out of music unless they're willing to live in poverty or they're already independently wealthy. And of course the vast majority of DUers wouldn't have heard of them so they wouldn't exist! Kind of like all of the brilliant artists releasing music today who apparently don't exist to the DUers who are still hung up on Hendrix and the Beatles.

[Withywindle]

263. Excellent post and you are 100% right - I wish I could rec it.

The unique thing about the 60s is that it's probably the only time in our lifetimes when the BEST music being made was also the stuff that was on the charts and got played on the radio. Popularity and quality actually came close to matching up. They certainly did nothing of the sort in the 80s, 90s, and 00s.

So you have a lot of people who don't bother to keep up with the underground--which is, actually, a hell of a job since it's so incredibly prolific now since digital technology has made recording and music-sharing accessible to millions more people than had it in the 60s -- it's an even bigger revolution than the indie-label movement of the 70s and 80s was, and that was huge at the time. Frankly, there are so many undergrounds producing so much great stuff in so many scenes and subgenres of course no one can keep up with it all. It's not a dearth, it's an embarrassment of riches.

But don't turn on the radio, listen for a few minutes, and think you can make pronouncements about "music today" being crap compared to the Top 40 hits of the 60s....well, you don't really know anything about "music today." All you know is what the huge entertainment corporations--which grew to their offensive level of useless bloat on the Boomers' watch--are hawking. That's not "the music of today", anymore than Kraft Mac'n'Cheese in a box is "the food of today."

[AngryAmish]

272. Re: Demographics

You are absolutely right. It is a simple fact that most people are into music much more in their youth and get a few favorite artists stuck in their heads. It is easier to resell these records than make new artists. And since the boomers are such a large market then that is what corporate media pushes - it sells.

But the beatles were not Boomers technically - both foreign and too old.

[sonofspy777]

214. Must Be

the release of that 9? CD set of almost all of the performances at Woodstock...

[Crowman1979]

239. I sure if Jim Morrison saw these boomers today, that he would say....

..."YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKIN IDIOTS!"

[Bennyboy]

241. The HIPPIES were RIGHT!

We are still right. And there are more of us now than ever.

[DailyGrind51]

247. Without Boomers, there would not be candidates "Hillary" or "Obama"!

The feminists and civil rights protesters of the 60s and 70s made progress for woman and African-Americans possible.

[pipi_k]

252. Exactly...and as I stated someplace up above...

the Boomers never asked for, nor do I think we would want people to kiss our feet for that.

But a little less of the dickhead shit directed our way would be nice.


A great many of the rights the young people enjoy today wouldn't be theirs without the actions of Baby Boomers (and some pre-boomer people as well).

If the price they have to pay for those rights is hearing about the 60s ad nauseaum until all of us Boomers are dead, then I say tough titties.

[robdogbucky]

253. As posted right here on DU a few months back....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpgSx8JJAWE

The Dirty Fucking Hippies Were Right.


robdogbucky

[October]

258. Or GWB...Wall Street...

Just saying.

This "thread" has become very Narcissistic.

I like what the 7

60's and 70's stood for. I was a kid at the time. But what happened when they grew up? It blows my mind!!! Not saying everyone, but where have all the flowers gone?

[Texasgal]

260. 259 responses on this thread

WOW! Guess I touched a nerve?

As a gen X'er I have no issues with the baby boomers. I grew up with hippies, lived in a commune as a child and took much of their wisdom to become what I am today. I appreciate the movement and I'll never tire of hearing about it.

[TexasObserver]

264. I'm getting a South Austin vibe!!

Say, near Ben White, maybe off Menchaca somewhere. Down around Dan's Hamburgers.

One of my children lives in Austin and is a vegan chef. I lived there in the 1970s and 1980s, and have been a frequent visitor for decades. Austin is about the last bastion of real hippies in the state, and now they're surrounded on every side by yuppies and such.

Love the city. Hate the traffic.

[Texasgal]

265. yup! south austin baby!

LOL!! You pegged me!

[TexasObserver]

268. My sister and her wife live in South South Austin, out near 71 at 290.

I've got nieces and nephews all over Austin.