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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:41 PM
Original message
All our work to get a majority for our Democrats...and the other side seems to hold more power.
The outcries from the right wing screamers over the recess scared them apparently into backing away from the government run public option which would bring real reform.

Nothing we on the left say or do matters. What matters is the reaction from the far right. "They who must not be offended" is a good way to describe the ones who oppose everything Democrats should embody.

And it appears they are winning the battle again. From the words of the administration spokespersons today...there will be no public option. Seems it will be insurance reform and not true health care reform.

It was the same during the lead-up to the Iraq war. Do you remember the way we wrote, called, emailed, marched in DC, rallied locally? I do. Maybe we did not scream loudly enough then.

We had a chance with our majority to fix stuff sooner in Iraq, to fix the horrible way that immigrants are being treated by ICE and other agencies.

Yet, the Democrat who told our candidates in 2006 and 2008 to "go right on immigration" and not to speak about Iraq on the campaign trail is the White House Chief of Staff.

Emanuel Says Immigration Reform Bill Lacks Votes to Pass

Just hours before President Obama hosted lawmakers for a discussion on immigration at the White House, Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel conceded that Obama and his allies on Capitol Hill do not have the votes to pass a comprehensive reform bill.

"If the votes were there, you wouldn't need to have the meeting. You could go to a roll call," Emanuel told reporters during an hour-long breakfast.


Why is that?

The candidates that were picked to run by the DCCC were very controlled about how to handle the issues. They were subjected to Rahm's view of the immigration issue, that the Democrats could not win unless they turned to the right.

From 2008

Two weeks ago he sent a DCCC-connected candidate training a video of himself haranguing congressional candidates to “move right” on immigration or risk defeat at the hands of Republicans. This is similar to the terrible advice he shoved down candidates’ throats last year, although then he was demanding they move to the right on Iraq, dooming the candidacies of Lois Murphy, Francine Busby, Ken Lucas, Tammy Duckworth, Diane Farrell and several others who went along with his demands.


Another issue we will probably lose because of the fear of the right is the issue of women's choice.

In fact, Mr. Bright is one of a dozen anti-abortion Democratic challengers the party has recruited to run for the House this year and has aggressively supported with millions of dollars and other resources in culturally conservative districts long unfriendly to the party.

That is the highest number of anti-abortion candidates the party has fielded in recent memory to run either for open seats or against Republican challengers, according to party strategists and a leading anti-abortion organization.


And we wonder why change is slow to happen.

With a Democratic majority we caved on FISA and warrantless wiretapping. It did not matter how many letters, emails, phone calls, rallies we had. The other side was more powerful even though we had a majority. Remember that a coalition of 27 groups opposed the bill.

It was a terrible bill that passed anyway in spite of our having a majority.

The bill would authorize massive warrantless surveillance.

The bill would require no individualized warrant even when an American’s communications clearly are of interest to the government.

The bill would curtail effective judicial review of surveillance.

The bill would grant retroactive immunity for wrongdoing.

The bill would not provide a reasonable sunset.


Steny Hoyer said they passed so the Blue Dogs would not support a harsher bill. We had a majority but we had to pass a bill preferred by the minority.

Remember the bankruptcy bill in 2005? We did not have a majority then in Congress, but it was our Blue Dogs and New Democrats who pushed for it.

There was no provision for people who had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills, yet it passed anyway.

This magazine and multiple other opinion outlets on the center-left have written at length about how the bill in question is a truly contemptible piece of legislation. Worse, there is no plausible political rationale for supporting it other than to appease credit card companies. As Paul Krugman pointed out today, the bill makes no exceptions for families wiped out by medical expenses (which make up more than half of all bankruptcies) or for bankruptcy cases involving active-duty soldiers, yet it leaves any number of loopholes in place for large corporations. The political imagery here so obviously benefits anyone who'd oppose the bill you're left to conclude that the only way a congressman could possibly support it is through a craven and reflexive willingness to do the bidding of big business.

But, even worse than that, support for the bill by Democratic moderates betrays a striking obliviousness to the most important debate underway within the Democratic Party. Moderate Democrats have been under assault from grassroots liberals lately for selling out Democratic values in their rush to appease conservative interests. I normally think this criticism is highly misplaced, and that moderates have exactly the right instincts when it comes to social issues and foreign policy, even most economic issues. But in this case the moderates proved the liberals' point for them, which could set back the cause of moderates within the party for months, if not years. It really is a colossal, inexcusable mistake.


Right now we are learning that Newt Gingrich is becoming an important voice in the push to reform education. That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Our new Secretary of Education is actually using Gingrich's philosophies of education.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan, former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich and civil rights leader/onetime Democratic presidential candidate Al Sharpton will hit the road together next month in the name of education reform. The tour starts Sept. 29 in Philadelphia, heads to New Orleans on Nov. 3 and then to Baltimore on Nov. 13 -- cities selected for what they can teach others about school reform. The Department of Education plans to add other stops, including a rural venue.


More on Newt's education policies at the link. We are pandering to the right wing on their corporate education agenda.

We don't have to cave on the public option that will begin the process of real health care reform. We don't have to include Newt in our education reform. We don't have to have Max Baucus, the man who received about 3 million from insurance companies, leading our efforts for reform.

We are not using our majority. For the first time in our lives we donated much money to politics, to candidates. We worked locally and statewide. We were so enthusiastic. Now we are stopping donations until we see Democrats acting like Democrats.

It will have a great impact on our party if this rightward moving continues.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Republicans make dems look like idiots - dems eat each other
republicans are better at working together for legislation they believe in even if its not perfect.
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Republicans like to win.
They are team focused and goal oriented.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
48. AND they know how to argue firmly and strongly
while Democrats tend to equivocate.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
85. Republicans like money.
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
46. Democrats act guilty for winning. They feel bad for Repubs. We are still in an abusive
relationship with Republicans.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Good statement. Like the Stockholm Syndrome
We feel a need to be nice to them.

Dean to Alan Colmes on Fox in 2005:

""Colmes: You said on Meet the Press, it could take some time to bring the Party together, diverse factions. You said, "I really fried the Party when I was out there running for President." What did you mean by that?

Dean: Well, you know, I think there's a tendency within the Party..inside Washington, not so much outside Washington...towards the Stockholm Syndrome. That is, you kind of drift towards the winner. In this case, the winner turns out to be a fairly right wing president. And I think it's a tendency inside Washington to think that if we can only be a little
more like the Republicans, then we can win.

It's a bipartisan problem. Bob Michael had this problem when he was Minority Leader, and Newt Gingrich stood up for what he believed. Now there's nothing I believe that Gingrich believes, but I do admire Gingrich's strategic ability. He differentiated the two Parties, claimed a particular set of issues and the beat us with those. We really need to understand that you win by differentiating yourself from the other party."

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
81. No, some of them are being paid off. This isn't about PARTY but Corporations vs. Citizens.
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 11:40 PM by ShortnFiery
IMO, the Blue Dog Democrats are siding with the Insurance Companies and Big Pharma.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. Might I suggest a new symbolic animal...
...for the Democratic Party? We no longer have any characteristics in common with the donkey. Therefore, I think this would be more appropriate: the platyhelminthes.

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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. You can thank the neocon enabling DLC for that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think so.
:hi:
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. all the Media does is amplify the ReThug lies, distortions and propaganda. even CNN sounds like Fox
anymore.. truth is sparse and institutional censored.. the Reich Wing Trained Organized Political Militias that were bussed in to shut down/censor informative Town-Hall Meetings were organized by the Richest People in the World under fake non-profit organizations with ties to the insurance companies.

it isn't like it is a secret.. any journalist could have discovered that in 2 minutes.. only Oberman and Maddow reported it.. all the others praised it as a grass roots movement

when will the truth prevail..?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Yes, the media does take the right wing's side. BUT...our Dems should know the truth.
I agree the media is shilling for the GOP, but we have told enough truth to our party. They don't seem to listen.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
60. Here In Florida It's Pretty Useless To Call Our Reps Or Senators... At Least
where I live. Bill Nelson is a DINO for sure, and I wonder what the deal is with Martinez, and old Vernie Buchanan is my Representative! This man who got elected even when it was well known he had at least TWELVE lawsuits against him! He won with 63% of the vote!!!!

Fighting back down here is next to impossible. Even the Democratic Party here is pretty lame!! Another "rec" for this post!

:banghead: :gr: :nuke:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. Yep. Calling Putnam, Nelson, or Martinez is sort of a joke.
How Buchanan got elected against Jennings is a puzzle. To be honest, I blame our Democrats for allowing Vern to run without calling him out a whole lot.

I think it could have been different.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. And Still To This Day There Are Write-Ups About His Lawsuits... NOTHING
seems to matter when it comes to him. Personally, I'm almost certain that Kathy Dent, who by the way got re-elected too, after screwing up three elections in a row, I think she's "dirty" as they come!

Never can prove anything, and it's been tried... but you can't make any head way even when you call her out! My daughter and I have butted heads with her several times, and there are times when she won't even show her face to us! It's just sickening!

It's really tough living in this county, as I'm sure it is in many other Floridian counties. But THIS county is way up there when it comes to election fraud, IMO!!
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djp2 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. They must have...
gotten some really good stuff on the Dems when they were (still are?) illegally wiretapping our Senators!! How else couldthey still have some much hold over them!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #60
92. The more hopeless it is, the more you must make your wishes known.
Bill Nelson needs to hear from you more than anyone.

Please don't give up -- this is too important for us to give up.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
53. Yep. nt
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. As long as we support them with Money and Time at Election
we will get more of the same.

If the Republicans win, let them take the country into a ditch
deep enough to make people in 50K and a little bit upward
hurt. When that group begins to hurt both parties will begin
to straighten up and fly right.



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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. they dont need our money as long as they are allowed to be bribed by Corporate Campaign Contribution
Fascism i literally defined by Corporations being allowed to bribe Politicians
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. They don't need our money, and they only need our loyalty on election day.
Therein lies the problem.

We really are quite unimportant in the scheme of things.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Eight years (six of which were SOLID Republican control) wasn't enough?????!!!!
Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 04:15 PM by Proud Liberal Dem
Thanks, but no thanks!!!! The biggest problem with the Democrats IMHO, particularly in the Senate are the Blue Dogs. We need to work on either getting them out of office or "re-educating" them about what it means to be a "real" Democrat WAY more than we need another 4, 8, 12, or more years of Republicans controlling the WH or the Congress and inflicting more pain and devastation on our country. A lot of Democrats may be corrupt and/or compromised but I'll take the worst Democrat over the Republicans being in charge of any lever of power in Washington for a generation.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sooner or later...
...people will come to the realization that health care reform is a necessity but it will be drastically reactive as most human efforts are. It will take widespread economic calamity that effects those who really run our government. All we are is the sheep to be fleeced and when they stop getting wool, something will be done.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. The republicans have more power because of the broadcast media and because
Democratic "leaders" (Reid, Pelosi,Sebelius) are weak. President Obama and Howard Dean are the only ones fighting right now. Not one single Democrat in Congress has guts enough to speak out. Not one. The HHS secretary Sebelius is a very weak person. John King , a jerk on CNN pushed her around today and it was embarrassing to see her stumble around like someone who has been asleep at the wheel.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. They have more fear of the right than they have respect for us.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
65. You said it. They also fear losing their positions--read election money--if they
represent those who voted for them rather than those who made the big donations.
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's the mushy middle that holds power
and the Democrats have failed to meet their expectations, full stop.

The road back to sanity starts with understanding this and doing what they want (fixing the economy).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am NOT a defeatist....I am a realist who expects our party to stand up.
I see all the posts popping up about not over reacting.

I am a realist right now, and I hate being called a defeatist.
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TiredOldMan Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sharing Your Frustration
If we can't count on them to deliver even when we have large majorities in both parts of Congress and we run the White House, then when can we count on them? They had better start delivering!

I didn't knock on what seemed like a million doors so they could sit there and say their hands are tied.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. And I do hate to feel that way. I did not expect to feel that way.
You are right, their hands are not tied. They have a good majority and are afraid to use it.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. What does this tell you? It tells me that the wrong dems are in control!
And that would include Obama if he does not bring about any of the CHANGE he promised. Time to look elsewhere.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. The ones in places of power are corporate Democrats.
That is their goal, to keep the left marginalized and give power to the corporate right.

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steelmania75 Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. "The Dems can't locate their asses with a special ass map" -Jon Stewart
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Is that a real quote from Stewart?
:hi:

It does feel that way some time. All the ideals I believe in have been part of this party all my life until recently. It's changed now, and there is fear of the right.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. I hate being called a defeatist when I present facts and sources for my facts.
Since 2006 when we regained Congress we have caved in on so many vital issues.

That is a fact. We have a chance to reform health care with this majority, and our party is letting the right wing control the dialogue.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. Sebelius's words are clear, plus Conrad's words.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/08/16/sebelius_signals_embrace_of_co.html?wprss=44

"Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius signaled on Sunday a willingness from the White House to embrace insurance cooperatives as the main plank of health-care reform rather than pushing for a public option in the final version of legislation being debated in Washington and throughout town halls across America.

"I think the president is just continuing to say, let's not have this be the only focus of the conversation," Sebelius, on CNN's "State of the Union," said about the focus of a public-option inclusion. "Coverage for all Americans, lowering the crushing cost for everyone, making sure that we have new rules for insurance companies, that they can't dump people out of the marketplace if you get sick, that they can't drop your coverage based on a pre-existing condition, that you can't be priced out because you're a woman instead of a man, and gender discrimination won't be allowed to continue anymore. Those are really essential parts of the program, along with choice and competition, which I think we'll have at the end of the day."

Further placing a public option in jeopardy, Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), a major player in the Senate Finance Committee's negotiations on reform -- considered to be the prime vehicle for health-care reform legislation in the Senate -- said on Sunday that hope for a government-run public option to be included in a final reform bill is all but dead.

"The fact of the matter is there are not the votes in the United States Senate for the public option," Conrad said on "Fox News Sunday." "There never have been. So to continue to chase that rabbit, I think, is just a wasted effort."

We do have the votes in the Senate.
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crazy_vanilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. yes, this stinks, it turned out to be much ado about nothing
and we are screwed again
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. Funny how with a slim majority, r's did whatever they wanted... we have a significant majority
and still can't get shit done. It's very disheartening.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yep, the Republicans just barreled stuff through.
We won't even use our majority.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. We need a new LBJ..
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. But without Vietnam and McNamara.
:hi:
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Always on defense, it's the way of the Democrats.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. i don't understand that either
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. The Dems are fearful of the right wing. They do not fear us...
not do they respect us.

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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. why are they afraid of the right wing? the right wing are a bunch of
bullies that are stupid and hypocritical. they need to know that we are not cowards and afraid to stick up for ourselves.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. But they yell louder
and the media covers them.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #37
47. Could it be . . .
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. From realist to defeatist in the course of one day at DU.
Pretending that all is well in health care reform does no favors to our party or to us.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. Today's correction to Sebelius says neither she nor Obama think public option is essential
to reform.

That is exactly what I have been saying. They are caving in and pretending they are not.

Here is the statement:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6323530
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. Forgot to post the 28 groups that opposed the FISA bill
The bill passed anyway. The groups and their actions and rallies were ignored.

The proposed bill would grant unnecessary and unconstitutional powers to the Executive Branch. We urge you oppose it, and to vote against any legislation that contains the defects described above.

Thank you for considering our views.

American Civil Liberties Union

American Library Association

Arab-America Anti-Discrimination Committee

Association of Research Libraries

Bill of Rights Defense Committee

Center for American Progress Action Fund

Center for Democracy & Technology

Center for National Security Studies

Congressman Bob Barr, Liberty Strategies

Democracy for America

Defending Dissent Foundation

Doug Bandow, Vice President for Policy, Citizen Outreach Project

DownsizeDC.org, Inc.

Electronic Frontier Foundation

Fairfax County Privacy Council

Friends Committee on National Legislation

League of Women Voters of the United States

Liberty Coalition

MAS Freedom

OMB Watch

Open Society Policy Center

OpenTheGovernment.org

People For the American Way

Privacy Lives

Republican Liberty Caucus

The Multiracial Activist

United Methodist Church, General Board of Church and Society

U.S. Bill of Rights Foundation


Opposing the FISA bill
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
35. I recommended this thread
I deserves it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thanks for that.
:hi:

I hate being called a defeatist when I am expressing reality.

Appreciate the k&r
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. Face it -- most policy that gets enacted represents something close to the average of people's views
Edited on Mon Aug-17-09 03:27 AM by BzaDem
This fact is why Republicans were not able to destroy Social Security, despite their large majorities in Congress. The people were not buying it. This is also why we are not going to pass Single Payer, with our large majorities in Congress.

Right now, the last election made clear that on average, people's political views are center-left. But the average is still closer to the center than it is to the left. Electing very progressive Democrats helps to the extent that it represents the average moving further to the left, but it doesn't mean that the country is open to the full legislative agenda of the Congressional progressive caucus (which does not represent a majority of the House). Maybe one day it will be, and that day will be signified by a larger Democratic majority -- large enough to give the progressive caucus a near-majority of Congress. But as of right now, I am not going to blame the Democratic party for not having enough support from within to enact policies I favor.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. The problem is not "center" or "left" or any dbate as to where those lie...
The problem is the lack of "fight" among the "Democratic leadership", who obsess over the losses in '68, '80, '84, '88', and '94, but seem to have learned all the wrong lessons from those losses.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. I don't think having a majority matters.
The Democrats chose many to run who were against Democratic ideals....they pushed out progressives time after time.

They are enabling Republicans.

I think Social Security is next to be privatized by our Democrats. Did you get the questionnaire from the DCCC? It doesn't assume any longer that people oppose privatizing it. It just comes out and asks if you are for or against.

Hubby and I are just tired. We cared and tried...too much it seems.
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
71. Just updated my facebook to read "member of the party that sucks slightly less than the other one"
I will continue to act as if there was some hope left, but in my heart, I think the America I grew up believing in, and the Democratic Party that I believed in too, are finished. Defeatist? Yes, I am...When you see your team continually handing the ball back to the other team whenever it finally gets possession, and you continually allow them to decide for you where the line of scrimmage is ( coincidentally always way over on their side of the field), their paychecks come from the same company that pays their opponent, and the fans in the stands and watching on TV only can hear announcers that are blatantly for the other team, then yeah, I think defeat is a good bet. I'm not saying you are, Mad Floridian; as you say, you're a realist. So am I, but that's why I think that what I've been seeing and hearing from the Democratic Party for three decades now, and more blatantly now than ever, tells me that THEY'RE the defeatists...just no fight whatsoever in em with the exception of a few of em , and I'm of course talking about our "leadership" as opposed to the rank and file who have plenty of fight in em , or would if they saw a point to still having it. And yet, at the end of the day, I will still try to do my small part in trying to remind my representatives that it's us they're supposed to represent. Like I said at the beginning of my rambling reply here, I'm still gonna act like there's still hope.
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. It really seems to me that
democrats aren't a very good majority party and they sure as hell aren't a very good minority party either.

Q3JR4.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. By design. We exist within an oligarchy, not a genuine representative democracy
A phony oppositional party (to the aims of corporate rule) is very beneficial in serving those rightward, profits over people aims.
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. And in every election people fall for it.
Hook, line, and sinker.

Q3JR4.
:banghead:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. The % of the indoctrinated on either (same) side has lessened
Although still enough of a majority to keep the system in place that actually works diligently to help stave off genuine democratic interference.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. We try to be too nice. The DLC heritage
is holding us back from speaking out.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
51. If you have exactly zero perspective, yah.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I am starting to have "zero" tolerance with my "zero" perspective.
You don't like anything connected with teachers and it shows.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I find it offensive for you to speak of teachers that way.
I wonder what your motives are?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. My motive:. I find it offensive that Americans are idiots.
One part of the problem is that teachers aren't any smarter: ex nihilo, nihil fit.

(That's Latin. The gist is conveyed in English as "garbage in, garbage out" - in case you're an education major.)

In a rational world, the idea of someone objecting to more intelligent teachers would be laughable. Alas, this is the real world.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. You seem representative of America and now of DU in your contempt
and that is your right to have contempt for teachers.

It's still America, and you have a right to do it.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. I have contempt of all who don't want people to be smarter.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. That is an odd statement filled with contempt .
Filled with generalities.

If I posted some of the insults you post, my post would be deleted.

I am surprised you get away with it.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #69
82. Bloo is an ass most of the time. nt
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. I wonder who we can blame for assholishness?
Genetics? Environment? Hmmm . . .
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
52. Dammit ...... I already recommended this thread.
K ... no second R, though
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
55. Many Democrats are on the other side.
Real progressives are mighty thin on the ground in Congress.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
59. Call The Repukes Right Wing Nut Jobs... And For The Most Part I Believe
so many of them are, but there's one thing I've noticed about them. Whether they agree or disagree with their party... they march in lock step, looking forward and stuck together like glue!

In the end, it seems that kind of persistence wins much of the time! There was once a time when Democrats actually did stick together, or at least built a coalition to show real unity. Now, I don't even know some Democrats from Repukes much of the time.

We voted to get them elected for some REFORM, and yet.... well, most of us see the hand writing on the wall!! So sad, so bad!!!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #59
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Brilliant satire of an incoherent, braindead RW rant. Welcome to DU !
Oh wait, were you serious? Wow, publicly advertising your stupidity in front of a group of people who actually have the brains to not worship that aforementioned stupidity ( unlike the right wing who quite obviously do). I'd invite you to stick around and learn something, but I seriously doubt you have that capacity within your tiny little brain. Have a nice time wallowing in your hate and ignorance, and going to your grave never having ever figured out that the people who fucked you over for your entire life, were the same people you trusted, believed in and supported. I actually , despite the insults you so richly deserved, feel sorry for you.
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jmondine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
61. This isn't about left or right, GOP or Dems. It's about who has the money
Big business couldn't care less about political parties. They tend to favor the GOP because they're easier to buy.

This is a power struggle. Those fighting against entrenched power must always anticipate that the powers that be will resist losing their wealth and influence with everything they have. If we don't prepare for this, we will be caught off guard every time.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #61
74. Yes, I Too Have Said It Many Times Myself... IT IS MONEY!! You Got It AND
hands are held out to receive!! It SUCKS!!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
62. The Dems are not weak, they're bought.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
67. There is no other side, not in DC.

We have been getting gamed since day one. It's just that they no longer have to keep up pretenses, they take the people to be such fools. That might work for a while, but sooner or later.....
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
76. Another anti-Democratic post...
...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #76
83. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #76
88. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
77. There is no 'other side'. There is one side: the corporate side.
And its owning both parties.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
79. No change? No cash.
We have wasted our mandate. We are a weaker than we were before the election. Republicans are playing us like a banjo.

There is almost no difference between the neo-lib (aka DLC neo-dem) and neo-con.

When republicans take power again they will not be so interested in bi-partisanship.

All the gun talk from the right wing is having a major impact on public policy and its for the worse as cowardly congress rolls over and over like trained circus dogs.

Republicans yell dance, pull out a six shooter and dem leadership is tripping over each other doing the two-step.

Disgusted.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
80. I think what you are actually seeing is the desperate attempt by Congress
to not make it obvious that they are beholden not to us, but to the corporate powers, including "health" insurance and big pharma.

In a way, I think it surprised the Dems as much as it did the Repugs that the public actually made it's pov known in electing Dems and is continuing to let it's pov be known about healthcare. The Dems have to make it look like they are representing us when they really aren't.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
84. Can I say "I told you so"? We all knew we needed a larger majority and
that the GOP, armed with a sizable minority of seats would do nothing but obstruct (for cash). This is the 1963-4 Congress all over again. Rather than condemn Democrats for not doing enough, we need to do more to elect even more Democrats so that we can recapture 1965----when Medicare, Civil Rights and Voting Rights were passed.

Beware of Republicans who will claim that they are Democrats who will criticize the Party. They hope that Dems will stay home in 2010, so that they can preserve their gravy train.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. They should beware of people like me who worked their butts off and donated much.
They are not using their majority, and it is a good one. They are fearful of the screaming and yelling and guns and rifles.

I am a Democrat, and I am criticizing.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. No one believes you will give up and neither will I for one more.
I don't think all these politicians are scared of these teabaggers. If they cave to them it will just be a convenient excuse.

Think President Obama is scared of them? NO way.

Look how easy it was to ignore so many more who showed up to protest Bush and look at Cheney begging for that continued SS coverage. Some on our side want Cheney and Bush's heads and unless they are prosecuted I wish them worse than hell on earth.

McCamy is right and we have to be on guard and working for solutions.

It's funny that the few who stalk you think they are doing some kind of service because even criticism makes them shiver. I can only imagine what the fearsome teabaggers must do to them. They must wet their pants, no offense to the incontinent.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. McCamy, many Dems like Baucus are obstructing for cash.
Alright, I get your point and I think it is a solid one. Focus on 2010. I am weak on history, but didn't this require the ultimate martyr?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
86. Agree. I'm still hoping, but hope is fading.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
91. It's time for President Obama to get all democrats to play follow the leader
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. problem is I'm not for sure who this pres is representing
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