Michael Vick has paid for his crimes and remorseful for them

[MrScorpio]

He understands that rejoining the NFL is a privilege.

He has vowed to work with organizations who help animals.

He's asking for forgiveness.

He's respectful to his new team and teammates.

He said that he was wrong.

He says that he wants to do the right things.

He understands that he needed to change and be considerate for animals




When someone does all of these things and ask for forgiveness, I think that we should go with our better nature and forgive him.

I'm sure that he's the last person to expect you to forget.

[vadawg]

1. oh oh stand from under.....

[Critters2]

2. Would he be remorseful if he hadn't got caught?

Million dollar contracts tend to buy a lot of remorse.

Lets remember, he lied during the investigation. He honestly thought torturing dogs was an acceptable way to behave.

I won't watch the NFL again.

[MrScorpio]

5. He's admited guilt, paid for his crime, asked for forgiveness and vowed to work for animals

I've found that if I continue to hold a grudge too long, it hurts only me.

[Critters2]

8. I find that making light of some terrible behaviors

only encourages them.

Lots of young people now see that torturing dogs carries no real penalty. Not a good message to send.

[MrScorpio]

10. Michael Vick would not be one of those people

I see that he understands very well the consequences of torturing animals.

[Critters2]

17. The consequences of torturing animals is that real, live creatures

suffer unbearably. He doesn't understand that. He understands that rich guys caught torturing dogs go to jail and go bankrupt. Not at all the same thing. One doesn't develop empathy for animals overnight.

[MrScorpio]

23. That's not what he said in the presser

He said that he now knows that people are concerned for their animals, something that he didn't understand while he was torturing them.

I'm quite sure that he's talking to people, like you, who love and care for animals.

He wants to be the ally of animal lovers... He's a convert.

People do change for one reason or another.

[Critters2]

25. He didn't know people were concerned for animals until now?

Please. He tried to keep his criminal enterprise a secret, because he knew our culture values animals and has laws against torturing them. Apparently, he's still lying.

And, again, what kind of sociopath doesn't have empathy for living creatures until someone tells him others care about animals.

Your defense of him only demonstrates how sick he is, and how hard it is to defend him.

[MrScorpio]

34. You're expecting him to have thought the way that you always think

Rather than learning that he was wrong and needed to change his ways

He would agree with you that was wrong, no question about that.

But what really matters is he paid for his crimes and now wants to do the right thing

He can only do this when people who love animals take him up on his word.

If he still is as bad as you say he is, then I'm quite sure that there are plenty of people who are always after him to prove you right.

[Critters2]

46. Would he agree that what he did was wrong?

When did he come to that conclusion? When he was caught. Not exactly remorse.

[MrScorpio]

59. People are punished in order to impel them to learn and be remorseful

Perhaps, it's worked this time?

[Critters2]

60. There's no reason to think so. nt

[Critters2]

104. "Wants to do the right thing".

No, he wants his big football contract. Not at all the same thing.

[BuddhaGirl]

126. he asked forgiveness

he wants a second chance. Yes, what he did was horrible, and we don't have to forget.

But humanity will not move forward until people try to take others at their word and give them a chance to move forward with their lives. We need more forgiveness in the world.

"An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" - Gandhi

[MrScorpio]

130. Thank You

This is exactly what I'm trying to get at

[northernlights]

181. I'm so glad he now understands that some people care for their animals

Or at least is capable of saying what he believes animal lovers want to hear.

Does he yet understand that intentionally inflicting suffering and death on other sentient beings -- whether or not they happen to be cared for by aniumal lovers -- is wrong? And doing so for entertainment is despicable, sociopathic, perverted and sick?

Personally, I don't particularly want Michael Vick as an ally.

I would like to see him tithe a significant portion of his income -- like the majority of it -- to Best Friends and the other rescue organization that rehabitated his victims.

[Critters2]

30. He thinks the consequences of torturing animals are losing a football contract

and going bankrupt. He doesn't know that it means real animals suffer real pain.

Oh, and those other consequences are gone now, too. So, really, there are no consequences to what he did.

[dflprincess]

19. Exactly

Right or wrong, the fact is that professional athletes are held up as role models for kids - and this sends the wrong message.

[asjr]

22. Right on! Vick gets indicted, pays a fine and

does jail time and all is well. When will Bush and Cheney get indicted for murder? And if they were what will be their punishment?

[PurpleChez]

35. Not just kids....

adults get sucked into this insanity too. A few days/weeks back when Vick got released some of my coworkers were so excited. All they care about is wins for "their" team. There is almost nothing they couldn't forgive in someone who brings home a championship.

[glinda]

77. I would rather he use his mistakes to do real good rather than be wandering

around the streets homeless and getting into trouble. He has talent and if he uses it for the better, than great. I think he really grew up with a certain mindset but if he has learned something from his horrible behavior then he can help close down Puppy Mills.

[PurpleChez]

120. Well...now he is linked with Pennsylvania:

the Puppy Mill Capital of the Nation....

[glinda]

189. Perfect!

[imdjh]

70. I have a right to not accept his apology and to disbelieve his contrition.

Michael Vick didn't make a mistake. He didn't misjudge his BAC before driving himself home. He didn't misjudge the heat of the day in leaving a child in the car. He didn't forget that his dog was outside on a cold winter night.

He engaged in a long term ongoing act of animal cruelty.

I have no control over the sports team that hired him. I'm not saying that the court should forbid him from playing ball if someone will hire him. But I think he's a piece of shit, and I'm not bashful about feeling that way. If he spent the rest of his life in obscurity, working at Walmart that would be fine with me. I think there is something wrong with a society that would give him back his privileged position after something like this.

I don't imagine for a moment that my feelings are universal. Spain and Mexico celebrate matadors. I think matadors are pieces of shit, and I don't think that claiming a "rich cultural tradition" is any more an excuse for it than some of the other charming cultures and traditions like wife-beating, honor killings, and genital mutilation Rich culture my ass- it's primitive.

[cliffordu]

81. Sports fan, Eh??

[MrScorpio]

89. This has nothing to do with sports, but everthing with giving me an opportunity to forgive

I really don't care if he has a successful career or not

But, he's stated that he's willing to work on behalf of defenseless animals, when at one time in his life he's caused them great harm.

I see the power of forgiveness as holding him to his word, which is much more powerful than continuing to hate his past actions.

By hating him today, one doesn't care if he becomes a positive force for the rights of animals... All one does is dismiss him.

If he is sincere, and will do the right thing, I think that my forgiving him will also add to helping animals as well.

[cliffordu]

95. Well. You are a much better human being than I am.

[MrScorpio]

101. I'm hearing this sentiment a lot

I'm very hard trying to be a decent human being

[Critters2]

105. What other criminals have you posted OPs about,

and offered such public forgiveness?

This is about sports.

[MrScorpio]

111. Well this is quite possibly the first post I've made about public forgiveness for crimes

Even crimes as heinous as the ones committed by Michael Vick.

But you know, in America, so few people ever give sincere contritions after serving sentences.

Admitting guilt and vowing to repent ones sins has never been part of the American psyche. Yet he's done this.

This Vick situation, to me, presents a tremendous opportunity to hold a person responsible for changing his ways.

I decided that what I could do was offer forgiveness to show sincerity in myself and to hold him to his word.

I said before, that he has my forgiveness, but it is not unconditional.

He has to prove himself to keep it, his profession notwithstanding.

[Critters2]

117. He's being paid mighty handsomely for that contrition.

That probably makes it easier to summon up.

[MrScorpio]

121. Well, let's stipulate that a renewed career in the NFL provided some added incentive

But he has stated that being in the NFL is a privilege

I take from that that he feels a responsibility for earning that privilege, and he has tied that privilege with assisting animal welfares organizations.

And as you should know, his career in sports could end at any time via injury. There is no guarantee.

However, he has made a pledge to do the right thing.

The adult thing to do is hold him to that pledge.

[Critters2]

122. I'd feel better if he pledged to do the right thing while

doing an apprenticeship as a bricklayer.

He's being paid to say the right thing. Plain and simple.

[MrsMatt]

180. Well put -

I struggled with the leniency of his sentence, especially since the stories I read tore my heart. Those dogs suffered horribly - there is no escaping that fact.

But I'm also a firm believer in the capacity of the human soul to change - I am simply unable to fathom that any person is so wholly evil that there is no hope for their redemption.

I am hopeful that Vick proves his change of heart is sincere. If not, damn him to hell.

[PurpleChez]

129. Excellent, excellent, excellent point....

I could never have made is so succinctly. I've already said a few other times in this thread that people wouldn't be nearly so interested in forgiveness for an oil executive or a stock broker as they are for a star athlete. This IS about sports--sports are (is?) one of the biggest double standards in American life. What would seem insane in any other context somehow becomes normal if you can somehow associate it with sports.

[MrScorpio]

145. To prove a point...

Please find any reformed criminal in another career field who has made proper restitution for the crimes they've committed, to the level of Vick has pledged to do... And I will forgive that person.

[PurpleChez]

149. You should not take it upon yourself

to feel compelled to be such a source of forgiveness, whether it is to prove a point, to serve as a model or example to others, or whatever. That's too much to ask of one's self or anybody else. And many would argue that you CAN'T do it. This reminds me of some very heated, very thought-provoking discussions I've heard surrounding Elie Wiesel's book Night--debating how, or even if, forgiveness can be granted by third parties. I don't have answers for those questions, but I question what meaning it would have for me to dig up a case and present it to you for your "forgiveness." My intention in the post that this was responding to was not to challenge you to a demonstration of your capacity for forgiveness, particularly in relation to anyone else's. But I still stand by the contention that folks are more forgiving of athletes and other celebs than they are of people in general. If you say that this doesn't apply to you I believe you and don't need for you to prove it to me in any way.

[MrScorpio]

151. I'm taking this back to my original request, in that we all consider forgiving him

I know that he's a celeb athlete and I know how people are willing to give celeb athletes a lot of leeway.

But I was moved by the fact that he apologized for his past crimes. I am convinced that doing time was good for him, as he wants to atone for what he did.

There's no real guarantee that he will be successful with the Eagles. No guarantee of all that money.

He could have walked away out of the limelight and never looked back.

But there are people in his life, some of them animal advocates, who see his potential for doing good by animals in atonement.

There's a lot going on beyond the sports angle that has impelled me to make a statement asking for forgiveness.

I really think that this says more about ourselves than it does about him.

[Critters2]

170. Reformed? How is he reformed?

Because he hasn't done any dogfighting since he got out of prison (that we know of)?

[greguganus]

40. Vick will now be more careful when he tortures animals.

Since he's getting big $$$ now, he can fly to neighboring countries for his animal torture. I will never pay to go to another football game and I'll boycott their advertisers.

[cherokeeprogressive]

51. "I won't watch the NFL again."

That statement leads me to believe that you weren't a real football fan in the first place. They're really going to miss you and suffer for your banishment of them from your television.

So I guess you're of the opinion that rehabilitation is not possible? Or did his punishment not rise to a level that satisfied you?

[PurpleChez]

66. you can forgive someone

and still object to the idea of giving them millions of dollars. I salute anyone who decides that they're not going to let their time and money go to support this crap. I assume that you cheered when advertisers distanced themselves from Glen Beck...why ridicule someone for deciding that they don't want to be a part of some psychopathic corporate-driven sports-fandom that makes heroes out of people like Vick?

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. True forgiveness comes without conditions, does it not?

Whether or not I forgive him (and I don't) isn't an issue that is pertinent at all. It wouldn't keep a single penny from finding its way into his pocket. He stood before a judge who decided what his punishment should be and I respect the judge's opinion on the matter. Thus far, he has complied with the terms of said punishment. I don't have a right to demand that his punishment be carried any further than the law decided it should, and I don't believe anyone else does either. Let him make his money. He might even do some good with it. Saying he won't means you believe you can see into the future. Anyone serious enough about punishing the NFL for allowing him back on the field again should be in the game with both feet, meaning they should not only boycott the NFL, but every advertiser who places an ad on TV during an NFL related broadcast of any type. Otherwise, what's the point?

Glen Beck? I salute any and all actions that get his ugly mug off of the airwaves. Did I cheer? If simply feeling satisfaction that our voices were heard by corporations that advertised on his show can be considered cheering, then call me a cheerleader.

On the subject of "psychopathis corporate-driven sports-fandom", you have me confused with someone else. I've been an athlete all my life and have been in love with the game of football since the first time I played touch football in the street in front of my house, and played it until I graduated from high school. Had I been good enough at the game, I imagine I might have aspired to play it professionally. I love the game, and give nary a thought to whatever corporation might advertise during a telecast. While watching a game, I separate the players from what they do off of the field in the same fashion I separated Bill Clinton's indiscretions from his presidency. During that time, they are merely football players to me. I don't see ANY athlete as a "hero", and anyone who does cheapens the word.

[PurpleChez]

119. the bit about psychopathic sports-fandom

was NOT directed at you or any other individual at DU or in this thread...my apologies that it appeared otherwise. In theory I've got no more problem with folks who follow sports than with those who follow music or movies or politics or whatever--but way too often for way too many people it goes overboard. Again...this wasn't about you and, again, my apologies. Rather, I'm thinking about the friend of a friend who explained that he had become a recluse because the Steelers has lost a game and therefore he couldn't face the world. I'm thinking of the guys in my neighborhood who go to neighborhood parties and, while everybody else is having a party they're holed up in front of the host's TV watching a game. I'm thinking of the countless people I have known who have said, through their actions if not in words, that games played by strangers are more important to them than time spent with family and friends--more important than any other single thing in their lives--people whose sense of self-worth depends largely (if not entirely) on the performance of some sports team, which they refer to (in a complete break with reality) as "we." I am convinced that if Vick were some sort of corporate exec no one at DU would feel that "forgiveness" included restoring him to his previous position of stellar wealth and privlege. I believe that the primary function of the justice system should be rehabilitation rather than punishment, and I don't doubt that Vick might have been rehabilitated. And I don't believe that athletes or any other celebrities should have to live up to the role model status that others place on them. Does he deserve a second chance? Yes. Does he deserve a brazillion-dollar contract? Hmmm....

Back on the sports fan thing...it makes all the difference in the world to me that you describe yourself as an athlete. It is simultaneously hilarious and extremely annoying listening to couch potatoes who haven't engaged in any physical exertion since thier last high school gym class but who think they know more about football than all the players and coaches of the NFL rolled together. I've studied martial arts for twenty years and thus spend more time participating in actual athletics than any of my friends, but I'm the oddball because I'm not obsessed with the outcome of some game on TV. Sorry for ranting...didn't mean any of it personally...hope your day gets better after this....

[cherokeeprogressive]

160. Much appreciated. A well reasoned response.

No offense taken. I roll my eyes at sports fanatics as well. I have to admit, I did have a momentary feeling of despair last year when the Phillies clinched their berth in the World Series at Dodger Stadium. For most of the game, you could hear a pin drop. The feeling went away quickly though, when I grasped onto that notion which makes me a sports fan in the first place: There's always next year.

With all due respect, I don't think Vick has been "restored" to his previous position. As you well know, being successful in professional sports is very hard work indeed. The way I see it, it's quite possible that he won't be in the league very long. History shows, I think, that you can't be away from your chosen sport for two years and come back to be the star you were before. I'm sure his skills have diminished at least a little bit, and the Eagles have an option to sign him for a second year (or not) if I read correctly. If he doesn't perform, I don't think they will. Only time will tell. Signing a contract for a million-six though doesn't do much for the mountain of debt I understand he's under. Yes, I believe he deserves the opportunity to prove he's been rehabilitated. Again, only time will tell.

All things being equal, I wouldn't let him within a mile of Bella, my Golden Retriever, even if he had a truckload full of puppy treats following him.

[PurpleChez]

161. Bwah-hah-HAH!!!

See hi to Bella for me, please.

But even if Vick's skills have diminished he will earn more in the coming year than all of my clients (most of whom are out of jail on probation or parole) will earn put together. He got a break none of these guys ever will, due largely (though certainly not entirely) because it's a matter of "sports."

Nonetheless, please scratch Bella behind the ears for me.

[Critters2]

90. Packers fan for a good 25 years.

No more.

[SoFlaJet]

3. the young man deserves another chance

he paid for his crimes and now should be allowed to move on with his life and his way of earning a living. Good luck Mike from a Jets fan.

[babylonsister]

4. I wish he had signed with

the Giants. But I'm all for forgiving. Yes, he was wrong. Yes, he paid for his transgressions.

Time to move on.

Good luck, Mr. Vick. (but not too much if you know what I mean)

[kirby]

6. Not here on DU...

Forgiveness is not in the spell checker around here. Over the years I've noticed
a lot of people are not willing to give someone a second chance.

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. Too bad the dogs he tortured won't get a second chance.

:shrug:

[kirby]

9. Nope, and nothing will ever change that.

But that is not the point.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. That is exactly the point, for me. nt

[kirby]

21. So you must support the death penalty

Because any time someone is murdered, nothing can ever bring them back. So the murdered can never be forgiven or rehabilitated.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. No I don't and that is a stretch. But nice try.

:eyes:

[Obamanaut]

13. Wish I could 'rec' an individual post. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. .

:-)

[tularetom]

11. I can forgive almost anything

but I think I have just discovered my limit.

I no longer wish for Mr Vick to be tied to a tree, covered with raw meat while a pack of hungry dogs is released nearby.

But that's the best I can do.

Sorry.

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. +1

:thumbsup:

[PurpleChez]

28. I agree...

Forgiveness is one thing. A zillion dollar professional contract is another. Let him work a "normal" job...

The previous Vick thread has apparently been deleted, although last I'd looked at it there was nothing terribly incendiary about it. What troubles me is not the forgiving nature (or lack thereof) of DU'ers...it's the hypocrisy of those RW'ers who want zero tollerance and to be tough on crime but who somehow become overcome with forgiveness when the perp brings home victories for "their" team. Forgiveness is one thing, but returning him to some sort of millionaire hero status is something else altogether.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frank Cannon]

88. You said it. If the guy was sent up for spending thousands on hookers and blow...

I would be the first in line to beg that he be given a second chance.

But what he did was just evil, plain and simple. There's just no other way to look at it. If you don't know, as a grown man, that it's not okay to torture animals, then you're never going to learn. You're just dangerous.

[dflprincess]

93. We can hope that there are many dog lovers in the NFL

especially on the opposing teams.

[Dramarama]

154. MoJo

Too bad he's a running back

[msanthrope]

206. Donovan is a dog lover....

Trainer says Donovan pampers pups
By JASON NARK
Philadelphia Daily News


They may have similar talents on the gridiron, but when it comes to being dog owners, Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick have been using a different playbook.

"Donovan's a spoiler," said Perry Parks, a Southampton, Burlington County, dog trainer who's been working with McNabb's dogs for almost three years now. "He absolutely pampers them."

McNabb, who owns two American bulldogs named Deuce and Diamond along with a recently acquired Belgian Malinois named Rocky, actually pampers his pooches a little too much at his Moorestown spread, said Parks.

"The only thing I lecture him about is the weight of his dogs. I had to put one of them on a special diet," Parks said.

Parks, a former Medford Township police officer and president of the United States Police Canine Association, said he was critical of newly acquired quarterback Michael Vick when news of the horrors at his Virginia home broke in 2007.


more at link
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20090815_Trainer_says_Donovan_pampers_pups.html

[Amerigo Vespucci]

12. You're right, there is a difference between "forgive" and "forget"

I also don't plan to forget the "stars" who attempted to downplay, excuse, or "explain" his actions:

...such as Jaime Foxx's "It’s a cultural thing" and "I think in this situation, he really didn’t know the extent of it" absolute bullshit "defense" of Vick:

Foxx defends Vick over dog fighting charges
Actor says QB ‘didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star’

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20414907/

Access Hollywood
updated 5:53 p.m. ET Aug. 23, 2007

LOS ANGELES, Calif. - Access Hollywood’s Shaun Robinson recently sat down with Jamie Foxx for a candid talk about Jamie’s new gig, and even a hot button topic from the world of sports: Michael Vick’s dog fighting charges.

Although Vick has been almost universally condemned since agreeing to plead guilty to dog fighting conspiracy, people should not be so quick to judge the NFL star, Foxx said.

“It’s a cultural thing, I think,” Foxx said. “Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”

Although he has a way of lightening even the most sensitive of subjects, Foxx sounded sincere in his belief that the quarterback is not being given a fair shake.

“I know that cruelty to animals is bad, but sometimes people shoot people and kill people and don’t get time,” Foxx said. “I think in this situation, he really didn’t know the extent of it, so I always give him the benefit of the doubt.”

...and Whoopi Goldberg:

Whoopi Goldberg Defends Vick

Posted: 11:19 am EDT September 4, 2007Updated: 12:45 pm EDT September 4, 2007

NEW YORK -- Whoopi Goldberg started her stint on ABC's "The View" Tuesday by coming to the defense of convicted felon Michael Vick.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14040573/detail.html

"You know from his background this is not an unusual thing for where he comes from," said Goldberg.

"There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of our country."

Co-host Joy Behar seemed shocked at Goldberg's statements.

"How about dog torture and dog murdering," Behar asked.

"Unfortunately it's part of the thing," Goldberg replied.

"You're a dog lover. For a lot of people dogs are sport," she added.

Behar continued to shake her head in disgust.

Goldberg said it seemed to her that it took a while for Vick to realize that the charges against him were serious.

"It seemed like a light went off in his head when he realized that this was something the entire country really didn't appreciated, didn't like," Goldberg said, referring to Vick's guilty plea.

She said if the case had involved somebody from New York City her feelings would have been different.

Goldberg pointed out that Vick was raised in the South.

"This is part of his cultural upbringing," said Goldberg.

[tularetom]

36. I admire Ms Goldberg but her defense is particularly lame

He was raised in the south so torturing dogs was part of his cultural upbringing?

I was raised in the south and attending segregated schools was "part of my cultural upbringing". Guess that makes it okay.

[petronius]

57. I don't think that's her point. She's saying that just as you learned that

segregation was wrong despite societal cues to the contrary, Vick has (finally) learned that a behavior he grew up with is unacceptable.

[Critters2]

62. Has he learned that? How would we know? nt

[petronius]

65. Beats me - ask Ms.Goldberg. (nt)

[PurpleChez]

75. Until just recently I lived in Georgia for a dozen years...

and never met anyone, black or white, who had grown up thinking that it was okay to electrocute dogs. I'm sure they were out there...somewhere...but to make out like Blackness or Southernness somehow explains or excuses this is offensive.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

63. Nobody wins with that kind of "defense"

I was raised in a small town in Massachusetts. All kinds of bad shit happened there...ALL KINDS. The "girl next door"...a year older than me...picked up a bad-news boyfriend, and her parents made no bones about the fact that they did not like or approve of this guy. One night, while they were sleeping, he set fire to their back porch.

So using Jaime and Whoopie's logic, because I'm a white boy from a middle-to-lower-class small town in Massachusetts, I can set fire to the back porch of anyone who doesn't like me because that's how things are done where I come from and I don't know any better.

Here's the part about Vick that a lot of people don't get. Animals...especially dogs...tend to trust unconditionally. They don't understand how that trust can be broken, and how they can be tortured when all they are trying to do is show love.

If Michael Vick could really understand what the animals he tortured went through...if he could be helpless and terrified, with no way to defend himself...then I might think that HE 'got it."

All I see is an NFL star who just signed a $6 million contract and is going to say anything he has to say, in a reverent and soft-spoken voice, to get that money into his bank account.

Forgive, OK. Forget, never.

[Medusa]

18. If he weren't a great football player.....

I'm sure the sentiment wouldn't be the same. But since he is, free pass. I'm at a loss to explain why it is that fandom seems to come with unlimited free passes for your heroes no matter what they do, even when we know what they do is wrong.

[kirby]

24. Free passes? I thought he served prison time!

I could give a shit about Vick and I dont watch Football and I am not religious. But I still believe in forgiveness. And I still believe in the concept of once you serve your time, you should be able to start anew. Otherwise, why have jail, why not just execute everyone after the jury declares guilty.

[WillParkinson]

44. He served SOME jail time...

He still got away from having to serve more: State trial and sentencing

In late November 2008, Vick was transported to Virginia to face the state charges.<59> On November 25, he appeared before the Surry County Circuit Court at a session held in neighboring Sussex County (because the Surry court building was undergoing renovation). He submitted a guilty plea to a single Virginia felony charge for dog fighting, receiving a 3 year prison sentence, imposition of which was suspended upon condition of good behavior, and $2500 fine. In return for the plea agreement, the other charge was dropped.<60> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick

A single felony charge for dog fighting. No animal cruelty. NOthing. And he copped a plea agreement and got a suspended sentence.

Sorry, to me that's a slap on the wrist, not paying for your crimes.

[qazplm]

38. Free pass?

Is he the only person to ever have dog fighting or to be cruel to animals?

Because I sure dont hear about anyone else who's served the time in Federal prison that he has, or has lost the lifestyle that he has.

Now, very likely that it is deserved so I dont feel sorry for Vick, but free pass? One can argue he actually was punished worse because of his celebrity and notoriety than if he were an anonymous nobody.
He certainly is being signed for what a kicker normally gets so he isn't getting a huge contract relatively speaking.

What, he should continue to pay even though he's served his time? I guess I don't understand. Hate him, that's fine, hate is free, fair in some situations, and the consequence of one's actions sometimes. But he's not had a free pass, he's done his time, said the words he needs to say, and in this society that means you get a second chance.

[PurpleChez]

61. Exactly!!!!!11!!!!!11!

If he were an insurance company executive no one at this site would be arguing that "forgiveness" required that we stand up and cheer as he is restored to the full pay, status, benefits, adulation, etc., of his old position. Contrary to what another poster is saying in this thread I do not agree that Vick should be punished beyond his sentence...but let him go to work at a convenience store for a while, or let him bus tables somewhere.

[zonkers]

20. I can forgive him if he just disappears. Seeing/hearing about him just reminds me of all the toture

and violence he perpetrated on hundreds of innocent creatures. Otherwise, fuck him. His is a horrible crime.

[MrScorpio]

50. Forgetting is very easy to do, isn't it?

I'm not going to forget.

But I do see this as an opportunity to forgive.

[zonkers]

69. Scorps, first off, "not being reminded is not the same as "forgeting". Second,

you are a better man than I am to forgive him so easily. I think of the pain and misery he caused and I say, fuck the sadistic asshole. Let him watch football on TV.

[MrScorpio]

72. I have to tell you that learning to forgive was a very hard lesson for me to learn

I've had people do great harm to me in my past.

A couple of these things were very heinous acts that, even today, I find very painful to talk about.

And holding grudges about them threatened to destroy me.

I found that the only way that I could live with myself was to forgive.

It's in the forgiving, I found, that has given me my strength.

[zonkers]

142. Forgiveness is good but I need a bit more time to forgive gleeful doggy torturers.

[izzybeans]

26. I'd rather continue on like a good little authoritarian and say

he should be in jail for life. :sarcasm:

The right-wing lust for continuing to punish ex-convicts after imprisonment on this site is appalling.

[kirby]

29. Sad isn't it...

The more I read stuff like this, the more I feel my interests don't align as I thought with people around here. I always
thought this was a progressive idea.

You last sentence was spot on.

[hay rick]

177. Crime and punishment.

I think rehabilitation is a basic progressive value. Some crimes are more heinous than others and the justice system accounts for that by varying the severity and duration of the punishment. But the premise of a system of justice (rather than a system devoted to revenge) is that punishment is intended to be corrective.

If you don't believe in the possibility of rehabilitation, then you should be pushing life sentences and executions.

[wndycty]

31. K&R

:kick:

[GoCubsGo]

32. I'll forgive him when...

...he donates a substantial portion of his NFL salary to the ASPCA,the HSUS, Best Friends (who are caring for some of his dogs), and other humane organizations.

[Critters2]

33. I wouldn't hold my breath.

So far, he's only done the right thing when there was something in it for him.

[qazplm]

41. Really?

Or would you say it wasn't enough? Would he have to do it for life? For a year? How long?

For some folks, I dont think there is anything Vick can do other than die or have a really, really bad life and then die.

[GoCubsGo]

148. As long as he's collecting a salary from the NFL...

...I think he should donate a nice chunk of it to humane organizations. If you are insinuating that I believe Vick can't do anything other than "die or have a really, really bad life and then die", you are dead wrong. I live in Atlanta Falcons territory, and I have seen over the years that Michael Vick is full of shit. I just want him to put up or shut up. If he's so sorry and has "reformed", I want more than words to show for it. Until then, I wouldn't trust him to clean my cat box.

Vick wanted a "second chance". How many of those dogs he tortured and then killed didn't get one? You want having a "really, really bad life and then die"? He saw to it that those poor dogs got that. Best Friends Animal Sanctuary is tending to care of 22 of the survivors of his abusive, disgusting behavior at their own expense, as most of them can't be placed into good homes. His short stint in jail isn't going to pay the bills to care for his victims. It's time he did.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. Best Friends is a great organization. nt

[Thothmes]

175. The bankruptcy court has first claim

on a substantial portion of his NFL salary.

[WillParkinson]

37. Does all these things...

Mr. Scorpio, he just got out of prison. He just got signed. Of course he's respectful to his teammates.

And I hear lip service from politicians every time they are caught doing something wrong. They're not sorry for what they did, they're sorry they were caught.

And as I have said many times, I'm willing to bet the dogs he killed would have forgiven him. They're obviously better than I am.

You don't stand up and say you're a changed person and it magically makes it so. You show you've changed through hard work and effort. When this occurs then I'll forgive, but I will never forget.

[MrScorpio]

42. I'm the last person to say that any of us should forget

However, I do believe that we should be willing to forgive... Only if that forgiveness is warranted

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

[WillParkinson]

47. And right now forgiveness is not warranted....

He has not shown he has changed. He only offers the lip service.

[MrScorpio]

54. Well, let you and I, his fans, his team mates and the Humane Society hold him to his word

The animals deserve just that much

[lukasahero]

79. I'll agree with you here

I am not as ready to forgive but if I see him working with the HSUS (as he has promised to do!), I may be able to in the future.

Look, I look in my pups' face every day and live with the results of the abusive macho culture she came from. This is not just some dig - she's a Sato, a Puerto Rican stray dog, where there are considerable efforts underway to try to reform the culture from one where the weapon of choice is the machette and 'real men' have shooting parties on the beach where these dogs are dumped to one that values animals and understands animal cruelty is not acceptable. When I look at her and I keep reading/hearing about Vick, it makes it hard to believe that someone could harm one of these trusting creatures never mind forgive them for doing so.

[qazplm]

43. well he has to earn a living in the meantime

and football is his living.

[Critters2]

48. He's incapable of flipping burgers?

Or picking fruit?

He has no divine right to fame and wealth.

[PurpleChez]

135. Huzzah!

[WillParkinson]

53. Yes, because he has no other marketable skills...

The right to make a living does not mean the right to make millions of dollars. Sorry, the majority of us can live off substantially less.

[PurpleChez]

136. Double huzzah!

[nc4bo]

39. I agree with you

although from alot of the responses here on DU, I (you and other like minded) could be in the minority.

I guess he should just go on and commit suicide to prove he is sorry, then again, it still may not be enough for some people.

Give the man a 2nd damn chance!

[greguganus]

45. Break a leg Vick. Literally. n/t

[Dinger]

52. I Watched His Press Conference This Morning

I was on the fence about this, but when he said he had to explain to his kids what happened, and asked for their forgiveness, well, it got to me. Call me a sucker, but I couldn't help it. That being said, he won't get a second second chance from me.

[Critters2]

94. It didn't occur to him that he'd have to explain torturing animals to his kids

without a federal indictment? Seriously?

He's just sorry he got caught.

[Romulox]

97. He intended to explain 'HOW'--never thought he'd have to explain 'WHY'?

Let's be honest.

[hamsterjill]

56. I don't like that he's been hired, but

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

But, you know, a LOT of injuries can happen on a football field.

Forgive that SOB for what he did? No way. Sorry, but you ask way to much of me.

[glinda]

78. I wish the Vikings would have hired him and used him to close down Mills

[w8liftinglady]

58. I agree with you.

I feel for the people I know who have been to jail/prison,and have no chance because no one is willing to give them a second chance.I understand Michael Vick doesn't fall in the same category,but he's served his time.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Certain crimes are unforgiveable.

Horrendous cruelty to animals and/or children definitely falls in the unforgivable category.

[SammyWinstonJack]

74. I agree. nt

[MissDeeds]

110. I agree n/t

[Alenne]

67. Stop worrying about Mike Vick.

Your local animal shelters need you. We need money, blankets, toys, towels, food, volunteers, foster parents, etc.
It's easy to talk about how much you hate Vick. It's a little harder to put that anger into action but it's way more helpful.

Please if you don't already donate your money and/or time to your local animal shelter.

[Ignis]

102. Great point. There are still many other animal abusers out there.

For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=231x19825

(thanks to flvegan for the story!)

[Evoman]

68. When his good actions are more numerous than his bad ones, then he may deserve it.

Talk is cheap.

There is no hurry for forgiveness. He ain't gonna die without it.

[LanternWaste]

71. I am in no position to forgive an act in the name of the victims.

I believe there's a specific and relevant difference between a contrite and sincere illustration of remorse, and an illustration of the same done simply to get back in the game and receive a paycheck, done only after guilt is discovered.

in this particular case, I'm afraid he will have to earn my belief in his sincerity... and I haven't seen evidence outside of heavily scripted press conferences, written most likely by a press agent with nothing but contracts and dollars in mind.

Thus I will, with a most heavy heart and an autumn full of empty Sundays, avoid all things NFL.

On edit. My own forgiveness re: his actions is both irrelevant and misplaced as he committed no act or sin towards me. I am in no position to forgive an act in the name of the victims.

[Critters2]

96. I've been saying this all along. It's for the victims to forgive. nt

[Romulox]

73. I forgive people, once I've seen CONTRITION. (Getting caught doesn't count.) nt

[loyalkydem]

76. This is the type of

positive post I can throw a reccomendation behind.

[cliffordu]

80. He should be treated the same way he treated the dogs.

Fuck these steroid injecting testosterone poisoned subhuman shitheads.

[Ignis]

82. So we should believe press releases without question?

You really think that Vick spent many years hanging dogs from trees, electrocuting them with jumper cables, having them torn to shreds by other dogs while he laughed--but NOW he's suddenly remorseful? And that we should believe this because he issued a press release to that effect?

The almighty dollar is the powerful motivator I see at work here.

[Orsino]

83. He's shown remorse? News to me.

I'll think a lot better of him when I see that, and when he devotes some significant piece of his well-paid life to atoning for animal torture.

[MrScorpio]

84. If you've read my posts around here, I'm sure that you've noticed that I have a penchant to forgive

This shouldn't be a surprise that I'm taking this stand

However, I expect Vick to earn my forgiveness

But, if he doesn't and goes back on his word, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

[Critters2]

98. You've already forgiven him. nt

[MrScorpio]

99. That is true

But I'm not saving that my forgiveness is unconditional and can't be rescinded with admitting that I was wrong in doing so prematurely.

I've decided to stick my neck out in my defense of the concept of forgiveness here.

[Codeine]

155. He doesn't have to earn your forgiveness.

You gave it to him free and clear for no other reason than to prove your liberal bona fides, to feel like a good little progressive. That's certainly your right, but I don't feel that obligation, and I won't be browbeaten or shamed into giving this man forgiveness until he has earned it by DEED, rather than WORD.

I suspect he's laughing about it right now with his friends, truth be told.

[MrScorpio]

166. I can't see where you think that I gave him forgiveness free and clear when I haven't

I've said repeatedly that it is conditional. I expect for him to own up to his promises.

Is this any reason for you to accuse me of being naive and duped by someone whom you, no doubt, believe to be disingenuous?

I'm not browbeating you, I'm asking that DUers make up their minds whether, given a certain set of circumstances, forgiveness should considered and what choice I've made.

Rather than applying a moving set of criteria in which people withhold forgiveness with never intending to give it, I leave that up to the person. Again, I've decided to take a stand where I did, conditional forgiveness.

I also know that I've dipped deeply into a very emotional matter.

And that's how I'm reading a lot of the replies.

In regard to your reference to my so-called liberal bona fides. I pray that that is not some slur accusing me of being a liberal elitist lording my liberal elitism over the lesser minions who post on this site.

[PurpleChez]

182. Excellent statement...

excellent, excellent, excellent. I wish I had said the same thing so eloquently.

[Forkboy]

85. How far does redemption go?

What people deserve second chances? Regular people? Vick? Bush and Cheney? Do all these people deserve a second chance, some of them, or none of them? If it's some, what's the line in the sand that people have set for themselves? What crimes are the breaking point, and which ones are forgivable?

I understand this will vary from person to person, but I'd like to see where people draw the line, or if all is forgivable.

[Incitatus]

86. It takes a very sick person to do what he did.

I have a hard time believing this isn't BS. He's just saying what he has to say and doing what he has to do so he can play again.

[Skittles]

91. he's gotta earn respect and trust back

that takes time; I'll wait to see if he truly does "the right things"

[MrScorpio]

92. Exactly

I understand that very well.

I think that best way is to hold him to his word, rather than dismissing him summarily.

[flvegan]

100. Forgive? Never.

Having first hand experience with dog fighters and doing rehab of fighting dogs, hell fucking no will I ever forgive that piece of shit.

Never.

[Ikonoklast]

112. People that torture animals for fun and profit

and are remorseful only after being caught and punished, get no free pass from me.

If Vick hadn't been caught, you know damn right well he'd still be killing animals for fun.

If he didn't know it was wrong, why did he go to great lengths to hide it?

Fuck him.

[PurpleChez]

137. Double woot!

[MissDeeds]

113. woot!

:applause:

[TorchTheWitch]

158. Amen and amen

Never in a million years could I forgive someone who did what he did. There is something inherently wrong with a person who has no compassion for animals and actually enjoys causing them unbelievable harm. He's a foul piece of shit and there will NEVER be any forgiveness from me for it. Even if he devoted the rest to his life to animal care programs and worked a menial job I still wouldn't forgive him. Some things are unforgivable.

One of my neighbors a few years ago rescued a bull mastiff who was used as a "bait" dog for fighting dogs. Every time I see him wearing the scars that are visable as well as the ones that aren't I'm reminded of what this poor dog lived through and easily forgive my rescuing neighbors for spoiling him rotten as a way to try to make up for what he was made to suffer at the hands of a repulsive human being like Vick.

[flvegan]

162. Meet JBear

This is one of our rescues. He was a bait dog, found in the woods covered in fresh wounds, left to die. Jaw was broken, teeth missing. It was 3 months before he'd let me touch him. A year before he'd let anyone else. He now lives a VERY comfortable life with my mom who insisted he come stay with her once he was rehabbed. People that see him now ask about the dozens of scars on him and she's more than happy to tell his story. He's become a great little ambassador for formerly abused dogs.

JBear

[MissDeeds]

165. Thanks for being a hero for abused dogs, flvegan

That picture brings tears to my eyes. Anyone who would abuse an animal is one sick s.o.b.
The ONLY thing Vick is sorry for is that his income earning potential has been jeopardized by his enjoyment of torturing dogs. He is despicable and not worthy of forgiveness.

Again, thanks for all you have done on behalf of abused dogs.:hug:

[PurpleChez]

184. Thanks so much for the picture!!

Please give JBear a huge hug for me.

[BlooInBloo]

103. Nothing is enough for DUers. MOAR PUNISHMENT! MOAR PAIN! MOAR!!!!

[Norwood]

109. He didnt have a problem inflicting More punishment and pain to those dogs

Why should those of us who love animals feel one iota of compassion for Vick

[BlooInBloo]

114. Compassion? hahaha! Hell, *I* don't even feel any compassion for him...

But nor am I a psychotic American sadist who simply wants MOAR MOAR MOAR PUNISHMENTZ!!!!

Funny - you guys resemble Vick. Only with people instead of dogs.

[MrScorpio]

116. To me, it's not about compassion for Vick

It's about using this situation to impel Vick to act on compassion in himself.

[SammyWinstonJack]

123. Pity he didn't act on that compassion before he decided to form his dog 'fight club' and torture

dogs to death. :shrug:

[MrScorpio]

125. But he's paid for those crimes

But of course, you have the right to continue to punish him in the court of public opinion

[SammyWinstonJack]

133. Whether he 'paid for those crimes' is debatable imo and I don't have to forgive

him, even if you think he did and I should and you have.

[MrScorpio]

138. I agree with you, you don't have to forgive him... ever

But whether you do or not eventually, I do expect him to earn what I have given.

I'm only making this a statement about my own willingness to forgive

[Codeine]

156. I think you've assumed facts not in evidence;

to wit, that Vicks has any internal compassion whatsoever. Perhaps he'll prove me wrong, but I most sincerely doubt it.

[Norwood]

106. And how do you know he feels remorse?

How do you know he truly realizes he was wrong and is sorry for what he did? So far it seems the only thing hes sorry for is being caught.

Until this piece of crap backs up his words with action (Donating a decent sized chunk of his salary to rescue charities and other causes that help animals for example) I have no reason to believe a word he says.

As for forgiveness? No, never the crime was just too brutal.

I'm thrilled the Broncos decided not to try and bring him in though.

[Critters2]

107. They just paid him $6M to say so! nt

[lies and propaganda]

108. I just cant forgive what he DID

Its so egregious to me, I will never be able to.

McNabb should be fucking disgusted

[SweetieD]

115. I completely agree. nt

[Lilicat]

118. This says it all, at least for me!

There was a football player named Michael Vick
Convickted of dogfighting - sick, sick, sick
The NFL finally lifted the ban
But every team but one said "we don't want that man."
They said "It sends a bad message; it will hurt our name
To let a guy like that come back to the game.
Our fans love their doggies, their dachshunds and their beagles."
But one team didn't care - the Philadelphia Eagles.

No the Eagles didn't care they said 'He paid his debt.
He did this nasty thing but we can just forget.
He can kick and he can throw and get the Eagles lots of fame
And make us a lot of money, that's the real name of the game."
Maybe he learned his lesson after spending time in stir
But $6 million dollars says it really doesn't matter.
Shame on the Eagles, I don't care what they say
Michael Vick ought to be workin' for the A * S * P * C * A !

WOOF !

[lukasahero]

131. "Michael Vick ought to be workin' for the A * S * P * C * A !"

That's the best line I've heard all day.

[LostInAnomie]

124. For a big contract, I can say a lot of shit I don't mean too.

Fuck him.

[SammyWinstonJack]

127. +1 nt

[johnnie]

128. A few years back I posted about a child molester

I had found his name online and he happened to work where I was working at the time. I posted about it and got a lot of shit on here because I shouldn't give a shit. He had done his time and trying to move on. It's interesting to see the discussions about this subject.

[Joe Fields]

132. that is your opinion and I definitely do not share it.

Fuck Vick and all the assholes associated with him. He can go sell insurance.

[cynatnite]

134. He should be treated just like any other ex-con out on parole...

Continued to be treated like scum, not allowed to work at his chosen profession, not able to vote, and not given a second chance to prove that he can be a productive member of society after he has already done time for his crime.

:sarcasm:

[opihimoimoi]

139. He revealed a side of Humanity that is very difficult to forgive and we will never forget

Vick should not be playing...gives off a wrong message.

Its not about HIM...its about what our Society is...this don't speak well for all of us

[liberalhistorian]

140. Michael Vick is remorseful over being caught and over losing

his gravy train. Period. Nothing more. I hope he bombs with his new team and I hope they catch hell for signing him.

[liquid diamond]

141. I knew you would be flayed by the animal freaks here.

Of course, I was upset with Vick's crimes. I thought he got off too easily considering how poorly he treated those dogs. But I watched his press conference today. One thing he said that made me open to forgiving him was that he said he would help more animals than he hurt. I applaud Commissioner Goodell for taking slow steps before fully reinstating him. That will verify whether or not Vick is sincere. There are people that will never forgive Vick, but I'm willing to give him a second chance.

[MrScorpio]

143. The key is holding him to his word to help animals

This is what's important to me

I know that some people will never find it in their heart to forgive. I'm sorry for that.

[liquid diamond]

144. If Vick is true to his word, he can do more good than the harm he

has done. Star power does go a long way.

[MrScorpio]

146. I'm holding him to his word

and I agree with you, BTW

[LostInAnomie]

147. Yeah, he sure treated those dogs "poorly".

Drowning them, electrocuting them, placing smaller weaker dogs against pit bulls so they can be torn apart for "training", torturing dogs to make them mean, making them fight to the death, etc.

Yeah, he sure treated his dogs "poorly". What a fucking understatement.

I guess we're all "animal freaks" for not trusting the words of contrition from a man capable of doing this while he's angling for a NFL contract.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrScorpio]

153. I know that a lot of people, here on DU, are fiercely loyal to their animals

And that's all well and good.

But, there's no good reason to disparage animal lovers for their loyalty

A good friend of mine on DU corrected me once about the nature of abused dogs. Dogs that have found the capacity to love and trust again, even after their abuse.

Those animals, to me, are following their better nature.

I was just hoping that we as human beings also had the capacity of doing the same.

[LostInAnomie]

157. Well, I'm glad a sociopath can find it in his heart to forgive himself.

And I have no doubt that others will forgive him too. People making money and sports fans seem to be all too willing to forgive undeserving athletes of horrible things. It says more about them than it does those with a skeptical view.

As far as "animal freaks" though, you are talking out of your ass. No one in this thread has said anything like that, and yet you made reference to the OP being "flayed" by "animal freaks". So, I have to assume that you think anyone in this thread that thinks Vick is undeserving of the forgiveness people are lavishing on him is an irrational freak.

[liquid diamond]

167. I was talking about freaks that have posted in other threads about

animals. Here is the one about the dog being left in a dryer: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x25816

A few weeks ago somebody started a thread about whether they would risk their life to save an animals. To my disgust, some people said they would do so for a pet! I guess people think their lives are as valuable as an animal's.

I understand people's loyalty to their animals, but that's going too far.

[Ikonoklast]

169. Yes, I would risk my life to save my pets.

Part of being human is compassion for other living things, that depend on us for their well-being.

And if you want to find out how much I love my kittens, try to hurt one in front of me.

If you think that's going too far, well, I don't give two shits what you think.

[liquid diamond]

174. You think a kitty is worth your life?! Now that's sad.

[Ikonoklast]

179. Have a nice life.

Your opinion on this matter has been noted.

There has been research done with the conclusion that points to people that have little or no empathy for animals also have lower empathy for their fellow humans.

[liquid diamond]

191. Wrong. I have a lot more sympathy for humans than I do for animals.

That's my fucking point. A cat is not worth a human life!

[Critters2]

173. He's forgiven HIMSELF?!!!!! He lied to the feds to cover up his crimes!

There's no reason to believe he's ever felt a moment's guilt, let alone the need for forgiveness!

[Critters2]

171. Poorly?! Please. It's not like he forgot to feed 'em once.

He actively tortured them.

[wizstars]

150. Okay, he deserves a second chance. So did his dogs.

I'll give him one when they get one.

Oh, wait, they won't get one...........

(never mind.....)
:mad:

[Raineyb]

159. Funny how there are so many calls for Vick's head after he's done his time

(who actually served time in prison) but the same people were talking of compassion over that backwards B bitch who to my knowledge hasn't apologized for endangering actual humans. (And served no time at all)

I guess how harsh you want the criminal (in)justice system to be (and when) depends on your priorities.

[liquid diamond]

168. Priorities. Some people

think animals have more value than humans...if not more.

[LanternWaste]

194. And other people believe...

And other people believe they have a measurable and objective value-analysis of life... of both people and animals.

[tonysam]

163. Somebody Should Ask the Dogs He Abused

if they forgive HIM.

[Critters2]

176. Yep. They're the only ones with the authority to do so. nt

[Odin2005]

164. Some things are unforgivable.

[Zynx]

172. Torture of animals is in that category of where I don't forgive easily.

His punishment was a fraction of his crime as far as I'm convinced. I don't think he really believes he did anything wrong.

[asdjrocky]

178. And, he's gotta play in Philly.

Anyone that thinks playing before philly fan is an easy thing should think again. Hell, they booed Santa in Philly.

[Lilicat]

192. Philly fans will pelt him with Milk Bones

You just watch.

And yes, I would risk my life to save my pets. My firefighter dad did that several times - went in and rescued people's cats, dogs and birds. I know my dog would risk her life to save me.

[Texasgal]

183. I don't give a shit.

if he is remorseful.

Fuck him.

I will not forgive what he did.

[crazy_vanilla]

185. enough of Michael Vick already

People are dying for lack of food and healthcare. Vick has got it made with his fat new contract. As Joy Behar says "Who cares?"

[AndrewP]

186. Good for him. I still think he can go fuck himself.

[Imperfect World]

187. How do we know he's not faking it?

Maybe the only think he's sorry for is that he got caught.

[Poiuyt]

188. It is my understanding that sociopaths can never be truly rehabilitated

Maybe that is why child molesters and sexual abusers are "labeled" after they've served their prison time. I don't believe for one second that Michael Vick feels any remorse for brutally killing and torturing those dogs.

[omega minimo]

190. Michael Vick is a bloodthirsty slimeball.

GO NFL!!!!

[VMI Dem]

193. Do more animals die each year due to horse racing or dog fighting? What is the difference?

Rich white people control one of them.

[LanternWaste]

196. Consciously willful and premeditated torture.

"What is the difference?"

Consciously willful and premeditated torture? :shrug:

[VMI Dem]

198. Knowingly sending animals to slaughterhouses for a gambling fix? Many of them south of the border.

Yeah, no difference.

[LanternWaste]

200. Sustenance vs. entertainment?

Sustenance vs. entertainment? :shrug:

[VMI Dem]

201. So the unsuccessful horses sent to the slaughterhouse because they can't win a race are sustenance?

And the watching of said horses to feed a need to gamble is not entertainment?

Interesting take on the horse racing industry. It is a front for dog food and the people in fancy hats are not there for "entertainment". LOL.

[LanternWaste]

202. Entertainment w/ torture v. entertainment w/o torture

Entertainment w/ torture v. entertainment w/o torture appears to be both a relevant and precise difference. I'm entertained when my dog and I race in the park... torture? Only to the pseudo-clever guy who's painted himself into a corner.

Horse racing is dog food-- valid, peer-reviewed info that illustrates that as part and parcel of tyhe industry rather than an aberration?

Are you simply going to keep moving goalposts until you get the answer you want...?

[VMI Dem]

205. Unregulated slaughter of horses in Mexico may not be torture to those looking to

justify poutrage at Michael Vick and their good animal gambling at the track. I'm sure the horses enjoy the whole process.

[Mystayya]

195. I am pretty sure the only thing he is sorry for is that he got caught.

Can you imagine the sounds coming from the dogs, the struggle, that last gasp of a painful death at the hands of humans it has been bred to trust? Now imagine the sort of souless person who could do that and feel nothing. Until he was caught and sent to prison, THEN he was sorry. But before that? He was amusing himself with the torture of innocent animals for pleasure and greed.

It may be in your nature to forgive him, but it is not in mine. NFL gets not one more dime from me until he is gone from the game.

[Critters2]

197. In the interview, Vick said he felt bad about "what I allowed to happen to those dogs".

His use of the passive voice demonstrates that he is still not taking responsibility for the violence. He talks as if he didn't protect these dogs from a natural disaster, rather than admitting that HE was the thing the dogs needed protection from. His use of the passive voice demonstrates that he feels no remorse.

[Downtown Hound]

199. Most regular people out there that commit felonies

have their lives permanently affected. They are severely limited in terms of what jobs they can get and will likely spend the rest of their days living in poverty and working shit jobs. I don't necessarily think this is a good thing. But why should Vick be allowed to rejoin the NFL for a multi-million dollar contract after his crimes dwarfed some of the non-violent, victimless crimes that people have had their lives ruined for?

I feel a lot more sorry for all the non-violent drug offenders out there with records that are struggling to get hired at McDonald's than I do for Vick.

[Veruca Salt]

203. There are two crimes that are unforgivable...

Child molesters and animal abusers.

If there is a hell, Vick will burn for torturing the innocent.

[Shagbark Hickory]

204. You can forgive him but he doesn't belong in the NFL- an entertainment business that...

showcases rolemodels to millions of people. Vick is a lousy role model. May be a great athelete but is a scumbag of a human. Thus let him play ball for some local team but not in the NFL. $0 of my money will go to the NFL until he is no longer in the NFL. No merchandise, no tickets. I won't even watch the games.