Man sentenced after leaving water bottles for immigrants (CNN)

[eppur_se_muova]

By Taylor Gandossy
CNN

(CNN) -- An Arizona man caught leaving water bottles in the desert for illegal immigrants has been sentenced to 300 hours of community service and a year of probation, an aid group said.

Walt Staton, a member of the group No More Deaths, left full water bottles in December in Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge for the illegal immigrants who routinely pass through the 18,000-acre refuge, according to court documents.

A judge sentenced him Tuesday to 300 hours of picking up trash on public property and a year of probation, No More Deaths said in a written statement. He is also banned from the refuge during that time, the group said.

Although the case involved only a misdemeanor charge, both sides used the divisive issue of illegal immigration in their arguments; Staton's lawyer argued that Staton's actions were humanitarian, but the government said otherwise.

In a sentencing memo, the federal prosecutors wrote that Staton's "actions are not about humanitarian efforts, but about protesting the immigration policies of the United States, and aiding those that enter illegally into the United States."
***
more: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/13/arizona.immigrant.advocate/index.html




So stopping people from dying is illegal now? Who needs death panels?

[redqueen]

1. How the hell does leaving water protest policy?

:wtf:

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[woodsprite]

3. I was wondering how it turned out. My daughter just got back

from a Presby youth retreat that featured one of the founders of No More Deaths as a keynote speaker for the week. I had told her about the case. She learned a lot, but sadly, many of the teens missed the message and thought they should have stuck strickly to preaching the Bible instead of bringing in current day concerns and topics.

[Lance_Boyle]

4. Too bad aiding and abetting illegal immigration isn't a felony.

This guy will probably do it all over again when his ban from the refuge is up. The ban should have been permanent. Hopefully the authorities will catch him and bust him again after he gets back to it, and make the refuge ban permanent in the second prosecution.

[joeybee12]

5. Yeah, let's let them die out there...

...whether there is water in the desert for them will make no differnce in their decision to come over.

[Mrs. Overall]

8. You always have fascinating and disturbing responses on threads that deal with race issues.

[Towlie]

10. Hopefully, others who sympathize with his mission will take over in his absence.

If you think illegal immigrants should be condemned to dying of thirst, I think you're on the wrong forum.

[truth2power]

11. I don't believe you said that. n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

13. "Aiding and abetting"? These people are already in the country before they get to the water.

All he's doing is preventing them from dying here.

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. Huh?

:wtf:

[a la izquierda]

17. wow...

people like you are precisely why i typically avoid threads on "illegal immigration".
i hope your beliefs help you sleep at night. i'd suggest a book for you to read that would haunt you for the rest of your life, but why bother?

[dana_b]

36. wow - how do you live without a heart?? n/t

[WhollyHeretic]

43. You are a disgusting human being

[roody]

45. Others are leaving water.

[LanternWaste]

49. I certainly hope so

"This guy will probably do it all over again when his ban from the refuge is up."

I certainly hope so. It warms my heart each time I'm reminded that there are still people who value human life over imaginary borders which exist nowhere but on maps and in our minds.



A lot of people have told me that my imaginary religion has caused more wars than all other reasons combined. I would hazard that in reality, it's actually your imaginary borders which have caused more wars, grief and strife than all other reasons combined.

But then again, I imagine we all pick and choose which imaginary things we hold onto to better give our lives meaning, and defend those wholly made-up constructs with the lives, the freedoms, and the pain of everyone but ourselves.

ed: sp

[slackmaster]

6. Littering...

...And creating a nuisance.

[RubyDuby in GA]

7. I would think that leaving water there so people don't die IS a community service

but alas...

[eppur_se_muova]

Yeah, I was hoping that would be part of his sentence. :^)

Maybe some wise Latina judge will rule that way ...

[Mrs. Overall]

9. Give drink to the thirsty=jailed. Tote a gun near the president=a TV interview.

[GodlyDemocrat]

47. This was Obama's Justice Department that did this

[redqueen]

48. deleted

[Echo In Light]

12. Christian Nation!

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. No kidding! Mind boggling.

:shrug:

[eppur_se_muova]

19. "I was thirsty, and ye gave me not to drink." nt

[Romulox]

16. It's a complicated issue. I'm glad he's not being jailed, but community service is appropriate, imo

Of course it isn't a crime to give water to a thirsty person!

But encouraging people to cross borders illegally (while knowing full well some will die in the crossing,) and aiding them into illegal entry in the US is clearly a crime (albeit a misdemeanor.) I absolutely do not think that so called "humanitarian groups" should be allowed to set US immigration policy.

But on the other hand, I blame the Federal Government for allowing the border to go uncontrolled.

Like I said, this is a complex issue. If it were as simple as giving a dying man a drink, then I could join in the absolute moral certainty of so many above. But when all the issues are taken together, this issue becomes, like most others, a balance of the equities.

[redqueen]

20. Leaving water is encouraging them?

Sorry but that doesn't add up IMO.

It's not like they wouldn't have crossed over... but that guy is leaving those tasty bottles of watter, so they then decide to do so.

[Romulox]

22. I didn't sit on the jury, and I don't know the elements of the crime of which he was convicted.`

But one can obviously understand that leaving supplies in strategic places could amount to aid/encouraging illegal entry.

"It's not like they wouldn't have crossed over... but that guy is leaving those tasty bottles of watter, so they then decide to do so."

It's not a matter of him providing the motive for the crossing, but rather the means.

[redqueen]

24. It's not "the means", either.

It's water. One thing.

They aren't going to stop crossing because he's now no longer providing "the means". They'll keep coming, it's just now they're more likely to die.

[Romulox]

25. Most developed countries have a highly regulated labor force

which is ultimately the sanest and most humane policy for all involved.

As I mentioned above, our policy of unregulated borders and an unregulated workforce is ultimately the strongest magnet that could possibly exist to draw people illegally into this country. If we truly cared about immigrants dying in the desert, we'd call on the Federal government to effectively enforce basic labor law here in the US.

But I will point out that not many of these "compassionistas" truly want to see people stop crossing illegally. Like I said, a complicated issue. :shrug:

[redqueen]

26. So... leaving bottles isn't *truly* caring?

Only writing to the gov't about policy is caring?

WTF are "compassionistas"?

[Romulox]

27. No offense, but you aren't really holding up your end of the conversation.

I gave an honest, reasoned response, and you're working yourself into some hyperventilating "aha!" moment. Not interested.

[redqueen]

30. LOL... no, not hyperventilating... I just don't see how that makes sense.

You point out that if people "truly" cared, they'd address policy.

No offense :eyes: but when people are dying of thirst in a dessert, writing to the gov't about how they should change policy ain't gonna save too many lives.

I'd still like to hear your definition of "compassionistas", please.

I searched and found a youtube video and some fashion magazine stuff... doubt that's what you were referring to. I did, however, see it used in a disparaging way in the National Review.

Just curious.

[Romulox]

33. You are fixated with this "writing to the government" stuff. Who mentioned that.

(aside from you, of course.)

"No offense but when people are dying of thirst in a dessert, writing to the gov't about how they should change policy ain't gonna save too many lives."

Err, we supposedly live in a democracy in which lobbying our representatives and voting are the only legitimate means of effecting change to Federal law. I'm at a loss to understand how demanding immigration policy changes wouldn't save lives. :shrug:

"I'd still like to hear your definition of "compassionistas", please."

A conversation and an interrogation are two different things. Put a bit more effort into putting your own opinions and beliefs out there and a little less formulating attack plans, and perhaps you'll get more out of this board. As I said, I'm simply not interested in engaging in interpersonal drama with you.

[redqueen]

37. It's my shorter way of saying this:

"If we truly cared about immigrants dying in the desert, we'd call on the Federal government to effectively enforce basic labor law here in the US."

So substitute emailing, faxing... whatever.

Also I didn't say that demanding policy changes wouldn't save lives... but you can't be telling me you don't realize that those changes take months if not years.


I don't blame you for backpedaling on "compassionistas".

LOL... 'attack plans'. That's drama.

I was just trying to figure out what the hell you were trying to say. Mea fuckin culpa.

[Romulox]

38. You know what? Just to show you that I'm not an asshole, I *will* answer you...

"compassionistas"

There are one or two posters who habitually post on immigration threads who are never to be found when domestic poverty is the issue--they hide behind a feigned "compassion", but their recipe for the suffering of the undocumented immigrant is a continued blind eye on the part of the government. These self-same posters will complain when, for example, the kosher slaughterhouse in Iowa which employeed illegal immigrants (including many children) in deplorable conditions is shut down.

This is the phoniest sort of corporate-sponsored "compassion" imaginable. Anyone who truly had compassion for immigrants would seek to obviate the need to cross a desert surreptitiously in order to earn a meager sustenance existence in some god-forsaken killing floor.

But no. These fonts of compassion instead decry the shuttering of Agriprocessors (a quick DU search will confirm same,) and have never been found in any thread about domestic poverty. Many of these same posters will vigorously defend the government of Mexico from charges that it neglects its poor and funnels them north.

These are the sort to which I refer (a couple are posting to this thread.) I was not directing the comment at the individual charged.

[redqueen]

41. Thank you.

That makes sense... I hadn't noticed those trends at all.

Again, I do see the value in lobbying to change policy... but leaving water out seems like it is indeed "truly" compassionate, and I won't assume this man was not also doing what he could to get the policy changed.

[Canuckistanian]

18. Why, that's just what Jesus would do!

Racist nativists. What a bunch of heartless bastards.

[redqueen]

21. What an ironic term, in this context...

considering what happened to the actual natives here.

[pampango]

23. Doubly ironic, since those immigrating are much more like the "actual natives" than

the people who live there now. In terms of DNA, it's almost like the decendants of the "actual natives" are returning, but the modern concept of "national state" stands in the way.

[H2O Man]

28. Thank you.

Perfect answer.

[Romulox]

29. Canada's got a much stricter immigration policy than does the US!

:rofl:

[redqueen]

31. How many people die of thirst trying to get into Canada illegally? (nt)

[Posteritatis]

32. A few

Mostly stowaways on container ships that go bad or something like that, though. It's harder to immigrate here legally than in the US, but with the US on one border, oceans on two others and the ice cap on the rest, fewer people really have the option to sneak in.

[redqueen]

35. I wonder if the Canadian gov't would prosecute anyone

who might somehow try to prevent those deaths.

[Posteritatis]

39. The current one? Hell yeah they would

They've been fighting in multiple areas to keep full Canadian citizens with clean legal records from reentering the country because Bush found them suspicious or something like. It's embarrassing.

God knows what Harper would try to do if we had that kind of border and people were trying to, y'know, not let people die in the wilderness.

[pampango]

42. "Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world."

Hardly an indication of a strict immigration policy. ;)

The US admits 1,000,000 legal immigrants a year with a population of 300,000,000, while Canada admits 250,000 with a population of 30,000,000 - only a tenth that of the US.

"Since 2000, legal immigrants to the United States number approximately 1,000,000 per year, of whom about 600,000 are Change of Status immigrants who already are in the U.S.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

"Since 2001, immigration has ranged between 221,352 and 262,236 immigrants per annum.<8> According to Canada's Immigration Program (October 2004) Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada

[Romulox]

44. Canada's also got 30 million people in a country the size of the US

So there must be something slowing down the flow of people. :hi:

[dana_b]

34. just as bad as being charged with

sharing food with the homeless. This country makes me nauseous sometimes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Humanitarianism and simple decency are un-American.

Our nation has now become pathetic in it's fears

[GodlyDemocrat]

46. Heckuva job, Holder

:eyes: