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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:29 AM
Original message
We're losing the health care debate not because of the mobs of ringers
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 07:29 AM by DainBramaged
We're losing it because of the coverage given by the MSM to the voices of fear and hate on the Right. Everywhere I looked this morning, Crooks and Liars, Huffington, etc., it's soundbites and propaganda by the Right wing (except for David Brooks calling Jabba the Rush and Sarah Quitter crazy for their comments). As usual, we are LOSING the propaganda war because our leadership has again failed to get out in front of the MSM tools and squelch the lies.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi need to become pro-active, as do the other voices of wisdom (?) we have in the party of else we will lose the health care debate and face another 15 years of raping by the healthcare industry. We only have this one chance this generation to change the way our system works, we can't let the mob mentality that stole the 2000 election win again.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. They are the minority. We need to act like the winners.
Dem leadership in every branch needs to stand up and fight back.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's the goddamned television, all right. n/t
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agreed. Howard Dean has been the most effective spokesperson ....

for this issue, yet the MSM even diverts his message by focusing on the conflict with Blue Dogs rather than the message of the need for true healthcare reform.

Still, he does a great job.

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Lorax7844 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, he does. Dean kills at debate and doesn't take crap.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. I made that same comment to my wife this morning.
Morning Dead Intern once again asked -- rhetorically, of course -- why Obama was losing the debate. The corporate parrots on his panel chimed in from script that it's because "people are genuinely afraid." Of course, not one word about the possibility of constant anti-Obama "reporting" on Fox, MSNBC mornings, and the "Big Three," having anything to do with it. It's all genuine fear. Gosh...I can't imagine who could be drumming up such fear.

We are being totally played.

.
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Lorax7844 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I wish more people would just turn that crap off
also k&r
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Being uninformed doesn't help, either.
Personally, I like the "know thine enemy" approach. I know a few people who watch ONLY Fox News because they believe it's a legitimate news source because Fox tells them it is, and they don't ever get any balance. I don't think that's any better. Turning off ALL television would be great, but ridiculously unrealistic. TV is part of our culture, and saying "Just turn it off" is a good line, but not a practical solution.

TRUTH is a practical solution.

.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. ime very few are truly informed
in that they are willing to read opinion organs from ALL sides of the issue.

i make it a point to read national review, for instance.

from my conversations with others here and in the real world, i find few on the left who read ANY explicitly rightwing opinion sources.

i want to hear all sides of an issue. my big 3 are reason magazine, national review, and the nation.

on some issues, interestingly, all three agree - such as marijuana decriminalizatio

tv sucks because it is shallow and geared towards the sound bite and the short attention span. regardless of underlying ideology, it;s just not that useful imo

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. Look around here. Plenty of voices from all sides to go around,
and they disgust me.

There are a lot of people not even paying attention during August, so I wouldn't get too worked up about this.

Coburn was just on Scabby and got smacked down if it makes you feel better, by Lawrence O'Donnell and Al Hunt-a thing of beauty.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. The lame$tream media DEFINES the issue - again - completely incorrectly of course...
...in such a way as to to maximize/retain their corprat profit.

Democrats - tripping over each other's feet and chasing their tails. And then - there are the "Blue Dogs" (ie: DINOs)
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. I blame the media too.
It is cheaper to just hand the microphone over to talking heads and call it "news" than it is to hire real investigative reporters to critically examine the talking points and report the truth. I think it is a big reason that so many Americans are misinformed.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's like the graphic at the bottom of your post says: Fear
The Rethuglicans have made the mastery of it an art form. That's how we got into Iraq, that's how we got the Patriot Act, and that's how we're losing meaningful healthcare reform.
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hope23 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. email war
My name is Danielle Clegg and I am a RN at Methodist hospital in Indianapolis, IN.
I was sent an email from a coworker in hopes that I can help her understand why universal health care is a good idea. She is scared by all the misinformation going around. She is a nurse and a mother of a special needs child. She voted a straight dem ticket last November--First time. However, she usually is a repug. I am going to paste a copy of the email here in hopes that you can help me address the misinformation that is being sent out. Please see below.
Thanks,




"Subject: Fw: An Indianapolis Doctor's Letter to Sen. Bayh about the Health care Bill

Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis .
Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh . Feel free to copy it and send it around to our other representatives.

Stephen Fraser
July 23, 2009


Senator Bayh ,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through Congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.


Page 22 of the HC Bill : Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!


Page 42 of HC Bill :The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill : Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Health card will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill : Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill : Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill : Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill : Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill : Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill : Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Page 195 HC Bill : Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill : Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill : Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same!

Page 25! 3 Line 1 0-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.

Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life!

Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN?

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E Fraser MD







Subject: Fw: An Indianapolis Doctor's Letter to Sen. Bayh about the Health care Bill

Stephen Fraser is an Anesthesiologist in Indianapolis .
Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh . Feel free to copy it and send it around to our other representatives.

Stephen Fraser
July 23, 2009


Senator Bayh ,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through Congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.


Page 22 of the HC Bill : Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!


Page 42 of HC Bill :The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill : Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Health card will be issued!

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill : Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill : Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill : Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill : Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill : Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill : Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Page 195 HC Bill : Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill : Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill : Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same!

Page 25! 3 Line 1 0-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.

Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT!

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life!

Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN?

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E Fraser MD"
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Welcome to DU.
That scurrilous, lying e-mail has been posted here several times, thank you.

:dem:

-Laelth
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Here is what you need for debunking that email
Edited on Tue Aug-11-09 12:10 AM by csziggy
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/cville_dem/2009/08/this-is-a-republican-email-in.php?ref=recdc

They repeat the email, then go through each page citation and tell the truth.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

Edited to add - I just googled Dr. Stephen Fraser in Indianapolis. I have to say, I am not terribly impressed. The first five or so hits are for sites that rate a doctor's abilities. All the rest were for this letter. Most of the doctors I have checked out before are involved in professional and social organizations. Dr. Fraser, so far as I checked, nothing like that. Strange.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Please go to www.pleasecutthecrap.com for a thorough debunking of this email.
This guy has waded through all the proposals and can help you with this.

Welcome to DU.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. We never had a chance. The insurance business, Pharma and the doctors
are against change of that type, always have opposed any change and always will. It's all about money, and they have lubricated congress and the media with tons of cash over the years - they are merely calling in their markers.

It was a great idea, but we will never have the type of health care we want in the US.

mark
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Until we get SOMEONE who can stand up to insurance
companies and big pharm and tell them THEY ARE FINISHED, we are finished.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. that someone is each of us.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I am doing my best but somehow I doubt how I feel is going
to matter one way or the other. I just found out today that Medicare refused another five hundred dollars of my bills for stupid, wrong reasons.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. And politicians are well aware
of these markers, the who and how much of each.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. Sorry but we're losing because of Democrats.
See, there's way more of us than there are them and that's the best way to win a fight.

Has anyone told President Obama this?
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Exactly.
And we are losing it because of the Democrats in Congress. What was that editorial number Pelosi pulled? Way to go Nance...let's rachet the schreeching down so that the message can be heard---NOT!

The Rs seem to know how to push the right buttons and get the megaphone in place to blare out the noise. Stop giving them noise. Stop contributing to the noise.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. It's Harry's fault.
Pelosi said she'd keep the house "in" for the August vacation, he said no, and let the inmates have a 30-day pass.

NONE of this shit would be happening if they had been forced to stay in session until the had it done.. No matter what conclusion was reached, if Obama had a bill to sign, and then signed it, they could have had an extended Labor Day holiday to "go home & hold meetings", but THEN there would have actually been a law in place to explain, and the protesters would have had the wind knocked out of their sails, and probably would have just been having cookouts & picnics with their families.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I have never wished for the defeat of a Dem before, but Harry needs to go
he's done more damage to the Party than anyone else in my lifetime.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. MSM ignore anti-Iraq War protests for the past 8 years.
Only now are they interested in demonstrations.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Of course, it embarrasses the man of darker skin in the White House
These jokers are doing everything they can to discredit PRESIDENT Obama, and to try (as another DU'er so aptly put it)to prevent any other African-American from ever becoming President again.

Ruled by rich white men, the history of Politics is filled with overt and covert racism. This is one of these times.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. We are losing because of HARRY SPINELESS REID and the Blue Shield Dogs.
They are enabling this crap! Pelosi has been surprisingly good, even coming out attacking the right-wing insanity in an op-ed. It's Reid and the Senate Conserva-Dems that are getting in the fucking way.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. Actually, I think we are winning. The more regular people see these nutcases...(more)
why the hell would they want to be on their side?
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