Free Manson 'family' members haunted by horror

[ccharles000]

LOS ANGELES -- Forty years ago, they were kids. Vulnerable, alienated, running away from a world wracked by war and rebellion. They turned to a cult leader for love and wound up tied to a web of unimaginable evil.

They were part of Charles Manson's "Family" and now, on the brink of old age, they are the haunted.

"I never have a day go by that I don't think about it, especially about the victims," says Barbara Hoyt who was 17 the summer of the Sharon Tate-LaBianca murders. "I've long ago accepted the fact it will never go away."

The ones who aren't in prison are scattered across the country. Some live under assumed names to hide their past from friends and business associates. Some have undergone surgery to remove the "X" that Manson ordered them to carve on their foreheads, showing they were "X"ed out of society. Some live with endless regret.

Those who escaped taking part in the spasm of terror that snuffed out at least nine lives would seem to be lucky. But their lives have been linked forever to one of the craziest mass murders in history.

"Manson made a lot of victims besides the ones he killed," said Catherine Share, who once lived with the Manson Family under the nickname "Gypsy." "He destroyed lives. There are people sitting in prison who wouldn't be there except for him. He took all of our lives."

http://www.rr.com/news/news/article/9009/8586853/Free_Manson_family_members_haunted_by_horror

[bbinacan]

1. I have no sympathy

for them. I'm glad their haunted.

[armyowalgreens]

3. Those are some hateful words.

[bbinacan]

5. So what?

Do you think they deserve any sympathy?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bbinacan]

14. Chill

there's no need for name-calling.:eyes:

[armyowalgreens]

16. There's no need for casting such harsh judgement from the keyboard.

I doubt you've ever met these folks. I doubt you or I can even comprehend what they have done and continue to live through.

We can only examine this from afar. So let's cool it with the "I'm glad they are suffering" bullshit.

[crikkett]

18. And what happens if we have?

You're making a whole truckload of assumptions, dear army-o.

[armyowalgreens]

20. Oh my bad. How many manson family members have you met?

And how many have told you their life story and explained to you their actions and reactions/regrets?

[crikkett]

27. What bearing does any of that have on whether I'm required to

have sympathy for them?

Because I'm not.

[armyowalgreens]

30. It is required if you want to cast such immediate and absolutist judgement on them.

Whether or not they deserve sympathy is not up to you or I.

[crikkett]

33. My argument is that saying you have no sympathy for a person <> judgement upon them. n/t

.

[bbinacan]

21. I AM glad they are suffering.

So get over it.

[armyowalgreens]

22. And I will repeat that your words are baseless and hateful.

[bbinacan]

23. I disagree. n/t

[crikkett]

29. I can imagine that you're not going to do much more than repeat yourself

except maybe attack character.

As if that helps your position (hint:it doesn't).

[armyowalgreens]

32. Your own words are the greatest attack on your character.

I have to go to work. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[kestrel91316]

41. So am I to assume that you believe that young people who go astray

are completely unredeemable for their entire lives and perhaps should be shunned, or ostracized until they die, or perhaps stoned or hanged, even though they merely associated with guilty people?

Very sad. I hope you don't have children.

Young people can be foolish and irresponsible and yet become wiser and better members of society. For that matter, so can older people, but youth are especially able to change because they have a long time to do so.

Did you ever break any laws or rules in your youth? Should society condemn you for life because of it? Or are you SPECIAL?

[bbinacan]

43. You sure have an active imagination.

When did I say anything about stoning or hanging? Youth does not excuse one's actions and yes, they should be haunted by their deeds.

[Ohio Joe]

34. Harsh judgment?

Are you not aware of the actions of these people? I don't mean just the murders but also their actions at the trial. Plenty of people are deserving of sympathy and these are not among them.

[crikkett]

35. as if that's not what you're doing. n/t

[deaniac21]

46. Unless they are repukes, of course!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[crikkett]

15. well hello, aren't you touchy today?

So why do you say that someone claiming no sympathy for Manson's cult members is speaking words of hate? The only hate I see is from you.

[armyowalgreens]

19. You accuse me of wishing to be a part of the manson family.

And you expect me to be okay with that. Get lost.

[crikkett]

31. You can't support your statement.

I win.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

17. Most of the kids in the Manson family had zero to do with the murders

They were kids looking for some meaning in their lives, they thought they found it in Charles Manson. Those people mentioned in the article had nothing to do with what happened on the creepy crawls. I feel for them, they still feel guilt over something they had nothing to do with.

[crikkett]

24. I think it's okay to feel for them. I think it's not okay to condemn someone

who says they have no sympathy for members of a cult involved in mass murders.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

56. I understand why someone would not have sympathy for them

I was just saying that only 5 of them committed the murders. The rest of them were innocent.

[dorkulon]

42. Did they bolt from 'the family' when the murders occurred?

If so, I agree. If not, fuck them.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

57. Yes many of them did

and there were others that didn't and supported Manson. As far as the ones who stayed I agree with you.

[azmouse]

44. If you haven't read "Helter Skelter" I'd recommend it.

You might change the way you feel about the Manson Family cult.

I always thought these were some frighteningly scary people but until I read that book I had no idea at all of how depraved and unfeeling they were.

[ingac70]

4. Same here. n/t

[ccharles000]

12. I feel bad for them

Oh, Troubled Soul

OH look at you, you troubled soul,
your mind so heavy, so dim.
The bonds that held you then, still hold you now,
and your heart grows cold and grim.
The sadness I see in your eyes
will not, cannot pass on.
So your soul cannot survive
and soon it will be gone.
This is a burden I cannot carry
and you cannot pass on.
This is a burden you must carry trudging on all alone.
I fear for you, oh troubled soul.
The weight, i fear, is to great.
I fear for you, oh troubled soul.
For you, now, it is too late.

(by Heidi R. Stinemetz)

[babydollhead]

55. that's what Sharon Tates murderer said to her

as she pleaded for the life of her unborn child."I have no mercy for you bitch"

[timeforpeace]

2. Yeah, they're victims all right. And still getting plenty of publicity.

[Chemisse]

7. I can see how easy it would have been to get swept up

In a cult like that. I was a young runaway in those days, but I stayed clear of communes in general. I left home because I didn't like being told what to do, I certainly wasn't going to let somebody different take over that role.

But a lot of the kids were lost without an authority figure and gravitated toward communes. Each would have its own rules, like everybody has to share all their possessions, or have sex freely with everyone else.

Who knows how Manson's authority started out. Surely he didn't say, 'hey I will someday ask to you kill for me.' It makes sense that it happened gradually.

I don't have any sympathy for those who did horrible things to innocent people on his behalf, no matter how many years have passed, but I do feel badly for those who did not participate or did not know how far things had gone. They have to look back and know they helped feed his sick power.

[cali]

26. oh please. I gravitated toward a commune, but it sure wasn't one

with a Manson figure, and I wouldn't have been drawn to that AT ALL. Oh, and don't give me any of that crap about how all communes had these absurd rules. The commune I belonged to had commonsense rules and although I don't live there any longer, it still does- some 40 years later. I largerly agree with your larger point about those who were members of the Manson cult but didn't harm anyone. I know you're wrong with your generalization about communes. You're conflating cults and communes. The two are not synonymous.

[Chemisse]

48. I just formed an opinion based on what I saw

Communes were where people lived together. As a young kid on my own, I would have liked to have had a place to stay. But whenever I encountered a commune, it was set up with a structure I did not like. I literally stayed at a place for a few days where everyone was expected to have sex with everyone else. I talked to someone about staying at another commune where everyone was required to give up all possessions for the common good. As far as I know they were not cults, with a powerful and manipulative leader.

That said, I am sure there were some very good communes with common sense rules, as you describe. But harmony is hard to achieve, human nature being what it is, without someone being in charge.

I wound up living here and there with loose aggregations of people, no rules, no authorities, no commitments.

[katanalori]

28. I agree with what you said

regarding those "family" members who were NOT involved in the murders, but were part of the cult.
I look back on my own life. We moved to L.A. area when I was 16, just 2 months after my dd died. I came from the farmlands of Wisconsin, and the city was fascinating to me. I hitched-hiked through Topanga canyon while Manson and his followers were there. I was SO naive, so utterly without friends in this new world. I wonder, if Charlie himsef had stopped the car and I got in, what I would have done. Join them? I cannot say for sure that I would not have.
Young, dumb, innocent me - I just might have (shudder).

[Politicalboi]

47. Your right

I lived in Simi Valley in those days. I was only 8 at the time but my older brothers could have just as easy fallen in with this crowd. The Manson clan dropped acid, ate from dumpsters, and had no authority except Charlie. No more nagging parents telling you to cut your hair and get a job, or go to school. My sister in law had sisters who almost joined up, it wasn't to commit murder, it was to rebel against authority, or possibly avoid the draft. And the acid played a huge part in all of this, as much as Charlie. And it was like a gang. Those who tried to leave would be scared that Charlie and the clan would get them. They made the mistake of their lives.

[Cleita]

8. Another case of drinking the Kool-Aid of irrational thinking.

Even though the birthers and tea baggers are not serial killers, yet, they are suffering from some serious case of Stockholm's syndrome. I believe the Manson family did so also and Charlie made sure they were filled with drugs and his philosophical nonsense that caused them break with their past and bind themselves to him. In the case of the birthers, the drug is religion served up in hypnotic doses so that these people will believe any nonsense they are told to validate their feelings about things.

[Wizard777]

10. "Evil has its lure and Manson has become a metaphor for evil,"

:eyes: That's just sooooo last millennium. Never mind Charlie and the Family. Now it's Dick Cheney and the Neocon's. Dick Cheney has nose hairs that are far more evil than Manson could ever hope to be. Because they help Cheney sniff out the blood money and then over 1,000,000 people are murdered.

:wow: :scared: :hide:

[pipi_k]

11. I wonder what supporters of the death penalty think about this...

If these people have truly repented and feel the horror they say they do, then living with that horror every single day of their lives has probably been the worst punishment they could have gotten.

I think death penalty supporters don't realize that in sentencing murderers to execution, they're probably giving them the easy way out...

[BuelahWitch]

53. The two women in the article were not involved in the murders and are not in prison

Thus the title "Free Manson Family members." There is nothing in the article that states that Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkle or Van Houghton are haunted.

[BuelahWitch]

25. Hoyt was the one the Family tried to kill with 10 tabs of acid

planted in her hamburger. She was not directly involved in the murders and she later helped put the killers behind bars. I have some sympathy for her and perhaps Linda Kasabian. The others can rot in hell.

[crikkett]

40. Thanks for the info. n/t

[BuelahWitch]

45. No problem

Those murders were horrendous. what is horrifying is that some people see Manson as a tragic figure who was badly done by because "he never killed anyone."

[Chemisse]

49. Ahh, I wondered which one she was n/t

[geek tragedy]

36. I bet Josef Mengele could have made the same argument.

No sympathy.

[closeupready]

37. Oh, yes, pity the poor human butchers! So sad, they have nightmares!

:sarcasm:

Fuck them - they will all burn in hell.

[dorkulon]

38. Awwwwww.

Poor murdering cultists. Gee, any kid could be talked into stabbing people to death and writing on the walls in their blood. Right?

[BuelahWitch]

39. LAMag.com has a very detailed article about the murders

http://www.lamag.com/featuredarticle.aspx?id=16882&page=1

[proteus_lives]

50. Crocodile words and tears.

They all made a choice and now they have to live with it.

I have no sympathy for them.

[Medusa]

54. The key words here are "live with it"

their victims didn't get that choice. And that's why I have no sympathy for any type of anguish any member of the clan claims to have.

[aikoaiko]

51. being metaphorically haunted is appropriate.

They are fortunate that they are not literally haunted.

[reflection]

52. I'm not happy they are haunted,

but I cannot support release. Let them serve as examples. It's the only good they can do anymore.