Had an interesting conversation regarding health care with a small business owner

[MindPilot]

I was in my local pet store buying dog food. (supporting local gay-owned business -- yea me!) I was chatting with the owner; he told me that he and some other local business owners have gotten together to brainstorm ways to get through the crappy economy.

They all calculated their insurance costs and all came to the same conclusion: if they were relieved of the burden of paying health care costs, they could all hire at least one more worker. These are all very small businesses--less than 10 employees.

One man who owns a metal-plating shop and has a few close-to-minimum wage workers literally pays out more for health insurance than he does for wages. He would happily pay his people more if he didn't have to buy health insurance.

Another employer had one of his workers quit so he could get his surgery covered by Medi-Cal; the insurance company called to deny his claim while he was IN the MRI machine.

There were far too many stories to relate here but the bottom line is this was a right-from-the-horse's-mouth slap-in-the-face look at how the best thing for small business (remember how much ALL politicians like small business?) is single-payer universal health care--not insurance, CARE--and some heavy-duty regulation of the insurance industry as a whole. For these guys about 25%-30% of their operating expenses go to insurance of some kind.

We talked about how we are already paying for it anyway, only now it's a lot more expensive to treat the single unemployed mom's flu in the ER and those costs simply get passed on to those who do have insurance.

My dentist told me he could easily cut his fees in half if he didn't have to dick with insurance.

Even considering a modest tax increase, most business could see an roughly 12% reduction in operating expenses. And down the road probably even more reductions as things like workers' comp and liability coverage can drop their medical components.

The Republicans are so obsessed with wanting to see Obama fail that they don't even support business anymore. That's really pathetic.

[TexasObserver]

1. INSURANCE is killing medicine. It has become the parasite sucking the life out of it.

[MindPilot]

9. Not just medicine

Everything from homeowners to worker's comp--the insurance industry needs to be seriously reined in.

[SleeplessInAlabama]

10. to insurance companies investing in financial products that have nothing to do with actual insurance

eom

[tsuki]

2. When I was in business, here is how my insurance costs broke down

per employee...190.00 a week for off time, 90.00 a week for worker's comp, 5.00 per week for truck driving. That is only the employee health benes.

Insurance has a strangle hold on small business. Most small business people I know support single payer and starving the insurance companies.

I hate insurance is a common thread among small business.

[Wapsie B]

3. I'm sure a lot of businesses could afford to hire more people

if they didn't have to provide health insurance. That angle has not been covered much if at all.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. I've been saying this from the beginning. Thank you for a much better post! k+r, n/t

[Kber]

5. My husband owns a computer consulting small business

that has other small businesses as his clients.

Your story is 100% in line with his experience and that of his clients.

Plus, how many other people might strike out on their own if they didn't have to worry about health insurance.

Single payer would unleash a wave of entrepreneurial creativity that might really threaten big business's hold on our economy and its worker bees.

Just saying.

[BeatleBoot]

8. I agree 1000%

I put up with the stuff I do at my employer for one reason - health coverage.

I would be self employed in a heartbeat with single payer.

Just sayin', too.

Insurance companies are the devils in the entire debate.

[midnight armadillo]

27. here too

There's a very promising startup I'd be interested in joining if it didn't mean losing healthcare or going to a $2000/month plan via the MA failing universal healthcare system.

[Mind_your_head]

6. That the GOP supports small business is a big, fat LIE

it's a "talking point" that many/most people believe, but the GOP's ACTIONS PROVE that they are all about big corporations and crushing ALL competition, including and 'especially' the "little guy" (small business owner).

....and, YES, government funded healthCARE would do WONDERS for small businesses all around this country. It would do WONDERS to gainfully employ a lot of experienced/knowledgable 40-50-somethings (and others) that can't get a job b/c a company doesn't want to take on any any unnecessary healthcare liabilities.

Mind_your_Head

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. The small business I work for -

pays $5k for 10 people - Kaiser's cheapest plan. Due to the economic downturn, we had to let go of a part-time employee and the remaining employees had to choose between a 10% salary reduction or getting dropped from the healthcare plan. :(

Everyone took the salary reduction.

A public option could literally save small businesses like the one I work for.

[gateley]

11. Send this to your local papers, local news stations, local radio, etc.,

and then go national. Don't forget all the representatives. Get this heard/read and maybe it'll get some people thinking. I know it helped me to actually picture the individuals involved, and having it brought down to a small, manageable level, rather than the faceless "them" that I DO care about -- this just makes it more real. Thanks for posting this.

[mopinko]

12. i overheard a similar conversation-the guys working on my neighbor's house

which is kinda funny cuz there are a lot of wingnuts in the construction biz. i think it was the contractor and one of his guys talking about how hard it was to insure his business, and how much better it would be to have government insurance. struck me as very funny.

[bertman]

13. And that's not even taking into account Workers Compensation insurance costs

which cost our company of eleven employees close to $50,000 a year. We also contribute to our employees' group health plan, which costs about another $14 or $15,000 a year.

This is one reason I'm so pissed that the actual REFORM bills seem to be getting watered down step by little step into an insurance company bonanza bill.

[MindPilot]

18. Worker's comp is another big purple elephant in the room

There are components that should probably remain in place for WC, like disability payments and retraining. But take the medical component out and how much would it go down? I'll bet it's over half.

That is true for almost all kinds of insurance and frankly I don't get why the insurance companies themselves don't want this. If I crash my car, the insurance company knows to the penny how much exposure they have to fix or replace it. If someone gets hurt in that crash, that expense is one big fucking question mark.

[zeos3]

28. Correct

I'm glad you mentioned this because that was going to be my reply. Insurance is a big cost for all types of small businesses. If we have universal health coverage, businesses save more than just the health insurance premium.

As you said above, remove the medical payments for workers comp, general liability policy, and commercial auto policy (if any). Even those businesses that don't/can't currently offer health insurance would see their overall insurance premiums decrease.

The same goes for individuals on their home and auto policies. This should be a no brainer for the local chambers of commerce to get behind.

[scarletwoman]

14. It's so OBVIOUS! It's so LOGICAL! It's so clearly the right thing to do!

Single payer is THE answer.

Rec'd,
sw

[dhpgetsit]

15. This is one of the best arguments for single-payer.

I firmly believe it will create rapid growth in small business. This is because people will be more willing to quit their job and start a new business, or take a job in a small start-up company. Ans small businesses will be competing with big ones on a level playing field in that regard.

That will have an immediate positive effect on the economy, employment and tax revenues.

Small business advocates should be pushing hard for it.

[timeforpeace]

16. It sounds as though the obfuscation about this insurance industry giveaway is working.

[MindPilot]

19. I'm not sure what you mean.

The situation is perfectly clear to these small businessmen.

[Coyote_Bandit]

17. NOBODY

supports small business.

All the bought and paid for bastard politicians support BIG business.

[many a good man]

21. It would help big business, too!

It comes down to collusion and the so called "slippery slope." They'd rather hurt their business and pass on the costs to the consumer than do something that's good for society. If the people see what they've been missing they might get hungry for more!

[SmileyRose]

20. Unfortunately we aren't talking about relieving small business of the cost

we are talking about fining many of them 8% of their payroll if they don't provide insurance. In the business I work for, health insurance costs are running about 3% of payroll. If the insurance companies get wise, and realize they can jack it up to 6% costs for us, then we will pay it because it's cheaper than the fine. So my boss's costs could easily double thanks to shithead insurance thugs. (He calls them flesh eating maggots) - and if they do, he will be forced to lay off at least 1 person, possibly two.

My boss if fighting against the proposed reforms because he think ONLY single payer universal access to medical care will help. He's convinced anything else will put more small business under than doing nothing at all.

[MindPilot]

23. Yeah, it is really fucking sad that we have gone from universal single-payer

to doing nothing is better than what is on the table right now.

[jberryhill]

26. 3% of payroll

I am not questioning you, but that is not commensurate with what I've seen.

3%? For the actual full cost of health insurance for all employees?

What is the average salary there?

And, to be clear - 3% qualifies as "flesh eating maggots" - sweetheart, 3% doesn't qualify as a couple of gnats.

That's less than loss and shrinkage in retail.

[SmileyRose]

29. Actually, I did misspeak and realize I'm apples and oranges here.

The fines will be 8% of PAYROLL

Our health insurance costs are running 3% of GROSS SALES.

I believe the business owner originally got the fines confused as 8% of gross sales, not 8% of payroll and it did not occur to me until just now that we both had that wrong.

My apologies to the board.

[truedelphi]

22. Here's another big fact about this:

If we have Single Payer Universal Health Care and left the "insurers" out of it, we might not have larger industries leaving the USA.

GM left in part because of the high cost of providing insurance.

So if these large industries stay behind in the states, then more jobs are had by Americans, and then it would be likely that more money is spent at small businesses.

[JimWis]

24. Thanks for sharing that info. And the replies so far really make a

case for single payer insurance. I get so damn angry that a system that makes so much sense on all levels isn't even considered. The only thing that cheered me up was a gal friend who works for Mayo clinic. Very smart lady. She said - "you will get your single payer - just can't tell you when. And the insurance companies know it. Meanwhile they will try to suck everything out of the system they can. If things are left as is, the insurance companies will eventually price themselves right out of business. Meanwhile, they will do so much damage to this countries economy that everyone will be crying for a better system."

And I am sick of how the Repukes are always going on with - "but it will hurt small business."

[pansypoo53219]

25. i have been trying to point this out.

a public system FREES ALL COMPANIES and makes us better to compete against europe. i am against the employer mandate. but stupid republikkklans can't see the forest for the trees.