So the men all dashed for the ferry's lifeboats, and all the women and children drowned.

[pnwmom]

Nice one.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gqTxrgdsxxZL0RGCIsQdGP1vblVg

NUKU'ALOFA — Most of the 25 people missing after a ferry tragedy in Tonga are believed to be women and children who were sleeping below decks when the vessel overturned, a survivor said as he came ashore Thursday.

Of the 79 people believed to have been on board the Princess Ashika when it sank overnight en route from the tiny Pacific nation's capital Nuku'alofa to Ha'afeva in the Nomuka Islands group, 53 have been rescued.

SNIP

Survivor Siaosi Lavaka told the Matangi Tonga Online that he only saw men reach the lifeboats when the ferry overturned in heavy seas.

"No women or children made it," he said when he arrived at Ha'afeva on the rescue ship Pulupaki with 50 other survivors, all of whom were men.

SNIP

[leftstreet]

1. But no penis was super-glued, no broccoli stalk torn asunder n/t

[flvegan]

2. Oh, this should be brilliant in the most epic sense!!!!

:popcorn:

[pnwmom]

3. Don't worry, it will get heavily un-rec'ed. n/t

[flvegan]

7. When you blame a gender without reason (from the story), I wouldn't doubt it.

Seems deservedly so, actually. OMG, what if the survivors were white, Jewish, and under the age of 21!!!????

We'd all be beside ourselves with our judgment calls.

[pnwmom]

11. I wasn't blaming a gender without reason.

I wasn't blaming a whole gender, just the 53 men who stuffed themselves into the lifeboats.

And I do blame them, but not "without reason."

[flvegan]

19. If you say so.

I'm sure that considering, my comments aren't very suspect in regards to your response.

[underseasurveyor]

4. I've got some hummus and some veggie chips

Mind if I join you....

Pass me some of that vanilla almond breeze over there wouldja...

Ahh that's good stuff:beer:

[flvegan]

8. Please do.

It's fresh hummus too.

[TahitiNut]

5. Perhaps preference was given to women and children in the use of limited sleeping space below decks?

:shrug: That'd be ironic.

[pnwmom]

13. I've taken enough ferries not to think it would be more comfortable below decks.

In fact, I always go up on the deck no matter what the length of the ferry ride.

[DCKit]

29. Or a cultural thing.

It doesn't sound as if there was a choice and very little time.

[malaise]

32. That's exactly what I heard on BBC a few minutes ago n/t

[TexasObserver]

40. Hey. Stop being logical!

There you go again, imposing your logic on a situation that clearly calls for a lack of reason.

[comrade snarky]

6. The male survivors were on deck and the women and children below?

That's horrific.
The article says part of the cargo was a new ambulance for another island so there could easily be more loss of life depending on how badly the ambulance was needed.


The innuendo in your post is reprehensible by the way. The ship overturned and went under in rough seas, that can happen very quickly in the wrong circumstances.

Unless you have some real evidence that the men there prevented women and children from escaping? Beyond your own assumptions of course.

[Chulanowa]

9. THE PENIS IS EVIL! THE PENIS SHOOTS SEEDS!

[comrade snarky]

10. Gun Good! Penis Bad!

edited to add:

You didn't think you could get a ZARDOZ reference past me did you? :evilgrin:

[Monk06]

14. Red junk bucket, moon maiden boots and bad toupe very bad. Kill, kill, kill !!!

[comrade snarky]

24. Ahhhh!!!

Now I cant get the phrase "Red junk bucket" out of my head!


Red junk bucket, red junk bucket, red junk bucket, red junk bucket, red junkbucket, red juncket, redunk bucket!

[Monk06]

53. Sorry, I believe I forgot the visual complement to the red junk bucket. Enjoy

[pnwmom]

12. I think it was more than chance that every single survivor was an adult male.

I'm not saying that the men "prevented women and children from escaping." I doubt, for instance, that the man whose mother died prevented her from escaping. But he also didn't mention trying to help her -- just said he didn't know where she was.

[comrade snarky]

17. The ship capsized and sank in rough seas

Good luck finding the person who was sitting next to you 5 seconds after that starts.

Not a lot of information in that article but you sure are ready to stand in judgment aren't you.

[pnwmom]

28. If you were a father, you don't think you'd be going for your children

rather than jumping into a lifeboat by yourself?

All the men except for two appear to have survived. None of the women and children. I would have expected at least some of the men to have tried to help the children.

[comrade snarky]

44. The assumption that no men tried to help

The women and children is entirely in your head. It's certainly not found in the article.

Maybe some of the men who did drown were the ones who tried to save their families, maybe some were tossed into the rough seas and barely survived on their own and maybe some did just run. You don't know, but you sure as hell are happy to make assumptions that fit your prejudices.

I hope you never meet the survivor of a tragedy like this in person. The last thing they need to hear is "Well why didn't you try to save your child? What's wrong with you?".

We know very little about this tragedy but this thread has shown me a lot about you.

[pnwmom]

45. From the accounts that I've read, there were only two men who died,

a Japanese man and a British man.

[comrade snarky]

49. Oh, well then....

You're perfectly justified in your assumption that every other man on the ship abandoned the women and children to die. If no one was saved the only reasonable assumption is that no one tried, right?

You have gleefully built a fantasy around this tragedy with no evidence to back it up.

The loss of life is sad, so is your reaction.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Nice to see men who are enlightened, and don't sexistly patronize women...

by holding the door, waiting for them to go first.

[pnwmom]

18. You missed the other possibility someone explained above.

The men were gallantly allowing the women and children the choicer spots below deck.

Uh-huh.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. So you're saying the men murdered the women and children.

They were aware of a plot to maked the boat capsize and make it look like an accident, and sent the women and children below deck knowing it was more dangerous.

Makes perfect sense.

[LooseWilly]

16. I guess the men should've sacrificed themselves for the women and children?

Not very equality that, though? It'd be especially ironic if everyone died because the men spent all their effort trying to save the women and children...
The point, obviously, is that, if the women and children didn't make it... the men should die too! How dare they survive!!

[comrade snarky]

20. Horrible thing is, I expect some of them would have

If they had the chance.

Unlike the OP I wouldn't assume they did.

[LooseWilly]

25. Yeah, I expect you're probably right.

Menfolk are infused with that sort of silly concern for women and children... :)

[pnwmom]

21. Who said that? I do think that the proportions were grossly unequal.

Not a single woman or child survived. That seems more than a little strange to me.

[comrade snarky]

22. Women and kids were below decks

Probably because it was a far more comfortable place to spend the night.

The ship turned over in the water after the cargo shifted. They were trapped.

Why is that hard to understand?

[LooseWilly]

26. You must be right.

Statistics don't lie.
It must've been a "de facto divorce cruise"... the men planning everything in advance to be sure that they wouldn't lose their money in a divorce case. It makes perfect sense. Send the women below decks, and sink the ship... presto, no alimony!

It was obviously a case of foul play...

[pnwmom]

27. Not a case of foul play. More "every man for himself." n/t

[ejpoeta]

30. amd who says chivalry is dead.

[Fumesucker]

31. It's really difficult to say until we know how many men were sleeping below decks..

Who made it to the lifeboats.

If it turns out that some men who were sleeping below decks made it then your assumption may well be valid.

On the other hand, if there are no men who were sleeping below decks among the survivors then it is probable that it was simply those who were below decks who perished.

There were apparently 78 people on the ferry, roughly 20 of whom were most likely women and children just by estimating from the numbers in the story. If the vessel capsized there would be no way for those below decks to exit and get to the lifeboats because all hatches would be underwater.

[Atman]

33. I honestly thought the sub line was a metaphor for the health care debate

The idiots in DC being "the men" of course.

.

[Echo In Light]

34. Chivalry is indeed quite dead.

[seabeyond]

35. it would seem to me there was a woman children section for sleeping, below

which would be the "chivalrous" act. and that in the quickness of overturned boat, they were also the most likely to be trapped and die.

sometimes shit just happens and i think it happened here. i dont think it is indicative of what we have become.

[Echo In Light]

36. Reminds me of Lenny Bruce's take on Jackie trying to flee the limo when JFK had been shot

...rather than the official version, which was that she was trying to grab the part of her hubby's head that had just gotten blown off. Well, maybe she was just like most people, and the fight or flight response kicked into gear. Who knows? But I agree w/you seabeyond, I don't think it's necessarily indicative of our era either.

[seabeyond]

38. it wasnt too long ago we saw the construction worker on harness pulling woman out of river

i loved that picture.

[Liberal In Texas]

37. Oh for Pete's sake, they were trapped below decks, they didn't have a chance.

"It appears that those passengers who were inside the vessel in cabin-type accommodation did not actually gain exit; only those who were outside — hence the number of males as opposed to the number of females" rescued, Karalus told New Zealand's Prime News.-AP

[Jennicut]

42. How sad for them to have been trapped

What a tragedy. I cannot imagine the feeling of being trapped and knowing you could not get out and would most likely die.

[TexasObserver]

39. So these men have thrown off the bonds of patriarchy, and you're mad at them?

Equality means equal opportunity to drown, too.

The story indicates that those who drowned were sleeping below deck when the boat overturned. That fact is the key to the women and children drowning, but you seem to think it was lack of chivalry.

[robcon]

41. I think some DUers have a narrative, and want to fit this story into that narrative.

I don't know what happened, but to assume it was some sexist plot is sick, IMO.

[Forkboy]

43. "I think some DUers have a narrative, and want to fit this story into that narrative."

You got that right. The OP is the perfect example of this, though far from the only one here.

[reflection]

48. It is pretty sick.

But pretty standard around here as of late.

on edit: unrec

[ColbertWatcher]

46. Were all the people who died women and children?

We know that all the people who survived were men, but were all the people who died women and children? Did no adult male die?

[comrade snarky]

50. Last I saw, local officials believe 30 - 40 people are still missing

There are only estimates of how many were on board at the time. Somewhere between 85 and 100.

So far 55 live people and one body have been recovered. There is some hope that more can be found alive but that is fading as time goes by. I haven't seen anything in the articles to indicate the missing are all women and kids. The one body found is a British man.

:edited for spelling

[TexasObserver]

52. Yes. The story mentions that and says there are missing bodies.

It is unknown how many women, children and men died. It's only know that men survived, and based upon the story, it appears that they survived because they were not inside the boat's hull when the boat flipped over.

Any below deck likely drowned quickly and there was little chance of getting anyone out.

The OP made a ridiculous leap from "only men survived" to "MEN! They let the women and children die while they pushed their way into the life boats!"

Consider the source.

[ColbertWatcher]

47. Looks like the hospital lost their ambulance as well. n/t

[robdogbucky]

51. Anecdotal evidence

is all I have to lend to this discussion. I was in a fire drill in a high rise a few years ago and the discussion came up that if it were a real fire emergency, who would make it down from the 25th floor?

One rep from an insurance company was in our group waiting in the stairwell to proceed, and he posited in answer to that question that he had been in an insurance seminar with an official from the NTSB and that they had characterized the survivors of most plane crashes as males, the larger variety. He dispassionately explained that in a panic situation, survival instincts take over and in most cases, strong males will claw their way over weaker individuals to get out of a life threatening situation and fight to the death to escape. The weaker ones are left behind. Simple automatic survival instinct, nothing more, nothing less.

I suspect a variation on that theme is the most likely answer here. A brave person could contact the NTSB to affirm this as they no doubt have statistics on this.

Just my dos centavos,

robdogbucky