Indiana: Woman arrested for buying cold medicine

[Newsjock]

Source: WTHI-TV

... Last Thursday morning, Sarah Harpold was sound asleep in her rural Rockville home.

"I heard somebody pounding on the door and I heard my husband respond to them," Harpold said.

Meanwhile, Harpold looked outside the window from the second floor and saw the cops. She then hurried down the stairs only to be greeted by police with a warrant for her arrest.

Little did Harpold know back in March her buying cold medicine and then some more at a different pharmacies in the same week was against the law. The Vermillion County sheriff said Harpold's arrest could have happened to anyone.

"The law is very clear. The judge has said many times is that ignorance of the law is really no excuse," Vermillion County Sheriff Bob Spence said.

... Now, Harpold is left defending herself against a law unknown to most people. Purchasing more than three grams is against the law. Depending on the size of the box, three grams is typically less than two boxes.

Read more: http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/news_wthi_rockville_meth_medicine_arrests_2009831810

[sasquatch]

1. Somebody is trying to their drug conviction quotas up

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Tried to warn about this cold medicine bullshit.

But even DUers fall for the war on drugs bullshit when it comes to meth.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. On this you are full of shit. Ever done a line of speed?

I used to be a big fan of cocaine back in the day. Crystal Meth was intended to be the "poor man's cocaine". I'm here to tell you that it's ten times more addictive, and a thousand times more destructive. Yes, I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but speaking from personal experience, and as a witness to what it's done to other people I've known, Meth is the worst thing that can happen to ANYONE with an addictive personality.

I've known people who snorted it, smoked it, fixed it, even people who've mixed it with a cup of soda they bought at the local fast food drive-thru. I've personally done everything with it but fix. The needle was just more than I could handle.

I've known three people (out of maybe a hundred) who've become addicted to it and broke their addiction without either going to jail, prison, or seeing a family member die because of it.

I'm one of those three.

On this, Porn (oops I mean Pron), you are dead wrong. I know people who went to every 7-11, Circle-K, Speedy-Mart, Vons, Albertsons, K-Mart, and anywhere else cold medicines were sold that contained epinephrine all in one night in order to make a new batch.

I'm sorry Bro, but on this, you're wrong. It's bad shit, and cold medicine is a major component.

[Chulanowa]

38. And so let's make laws that penalize people using it for colds?

Sorry, no. You can do nasty shit with household cleansers too, but nobody gets tossed in the clink for buying industrial-sized Toilet Duck.

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Fine and dandy, until the public at large finds out that there's a chemical in your "Toilet Duck"

that can be used as a component in meth.

Any product containing epinephrine or pseudo-epinephrine should be place on the list of controlled substances.

[Chulanowa]

74. There's not. But it can be used to create some very interesting and highly illegal devices

Labeling everyone buying cold medicinre as a meth cooker is no different than labeling anyone guying lots of house chemicals a terrorist.

[Kellen RN]

128. Ok, sorry but the drug you're talking about isn't epinephrine.

You're talking about ephedrine. Epinephrine is essentially what people call adrenaline and is used in cardiac arrests to "jump start" the heart or in ICU's to maintain adequate blood pressures.

Ephedrine, and pseudo-ephedrine are decongestants with side-effects similar to stimulants and are often used in the manufacture of methamphetimine. They shouldn't be on a list of controlled substances. It would be absolutely ridiculous to do so. The alternative that is used in many decongestants doesn't work for shit. Can't remember the name of it but it sucks.

[Lyric]

143. The alternative is phenylephrine, and you're right--it's crap.

The only efficacy data we have on it is 40 years old, from a small study done on 100 people, and the data doesn't hold up to modern standards. In fact, I've read that the current dose of phenylephrine found in cold meds is no more effective than placebo. We also have very little data on its safety and long-term risks. It's shameful that it was allowed on the market without more research.

[Kellen RN]

148. Thank you. Don't come into contact with phenylephrine at all in

my work and I avoid any product I don't have to show my ID for when I'm congested.

Maybe we should make people show their long-form birth certificate (whatever that is) to buy cold medicine.

I also appreciate the information regarding its efficacy, or lack there of, and shall use it when bitching (oh wait, just read a different thread where I'm not supposed to use that word) about the legality of obtaining cold medicine.

[ColesCountyDem]

162. My old man was a doctor, and he said that only 4 things can help the symptoms of the common cold:

1.) Liquids.

2.) Calcium iodide (his favorite for thinning mucus).

3.) Dextromathorphan (sp?) or codeine, to suppress prolonged coughing.

4.) Time.

Unless something's changed in the treatment of the common cold, it still sounds like good medicine, and all perfectly legal (codeine with a 'scrip, of course).

[Lyric]

171. Your old man is/was wrong.

I assure you, decades of medical research have proven the efficacy of pseudoephedrine as a nasal decongestant. Your Dad sounds like he was a very nice man, but we know more now than he apparently did.

As for dextromethorphan--at regular doses, it's no more effective than placebo. Here's one abstract--I know I've read others.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8476735_Effect_of_dextromethorphan_diphenhydramine_and_placebo_on_nocturnal_cough_and_sleep_quality_for_coughing_children_and_their_parents

At the higher doses needed for true efficacy, dextromethorphan is a hallucinogen. It's certainly not something that I'd want to put into my body. For chest cold congestion, a combination of fluids, humidification of air, and guaifenesin for mucus-thinning, along with modest doses of codeine to control cough if needed, is probably the *most* effective treatment I can think of off the top of my head. Unfortunately, because our nation is irrationally paranoid about using eeeeevil opiates like codeine, even at low doses, we're stuck with crap like dextromethorphan instead of truly effective cough suppressants like codeine. I swear, we must be one of the last developed nations to believe that low-dose codeine is more dangerous (and therefore needs to be more controlled) than grain alcohol. *sigh*

[ColesCountyDem]

175. Of course he was, but that's not the point.

The point is that ANY drug can be subject to abuse, and if one needs more than the recommended amount of OTC medicine, they ought to see a doctor.

[Lyric]

141. It's not epinephrine, it's pseudoephedrine.

Entirely different substances. And I happen to think these laws are ludicrous. They have accomplished precisely NOTHING in terms of reducing the availability of methamphetamine in the USA. Instead of home-cooked powder meth, we are now flooded with purer, more dangerous crystal meth from Mexico--and meth-related crime has increased, as people who used to cook it at home now have to buy the more expensive variety, and are committing robberies and burglaries in order to finance it.

The ONLY thing that the pseudoephedrine laws have accomplished is to reduce--not eliminate--the manufacture of weaker powder meth in people's homes. Sure, that's a good thing--but it's not enough of a good thing to balance the scales against increased Mexican meth potency, increased chance of death from overdose on crystal, and increased chance of home invasion and/or armed robbery as addicts seek to pay for their more-expensive habit. Making pseudoephedrine a controlled substance worked about as well as making anything else a controlled substance in terms of reducing use, which is to say, not at all. When people want something, they're going to get it. We need to decide which evil is lesser and stick with it. I don't happen to agree that Mexican crystal meth is the "lesser" evil; I think we've just jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, so to speak. My stepfather was a meth-head when I was a teenager/young adult, and I remember all too well what it was like living around it. I know what it is and what it does. He got away from it on his own, without rehab, and he hasn't relapsed. Would that have happened if he'd been snorting ice instead of crank? Not effing likely.

The answer is not more and more draconic substance restrictions. The answer is to treat addiction as a medical problem, not a crime, and to offer treatment rather than prison. As for this poor woman--I firmly believe that the FIRST thing we should do to amend the pseudoephedrine restrictions is to insist that purchase histories ALONE are not enough to justify arrest. There should be evidence of either manufacture, intent to manufacture, or conspiracy to manufacture meth. Let the purchase history serve as probable cause for an investigation which may or may not lead to arrest--not as an arrestable offense in and of itself. Our country is quite fascist enough, thanks much. I'd like to be able to buy daytime cold meds (for school), nighttime cold meds (to get to sleep when I'm sick), and children's cold meds (for my little boy) all at once without landing myself in jail. Enough is enough.

[LeftyMom]

41. Have you ever not been able to breathe well enough to sleep,

because you have to sign a log book to get over the counter medicine and the pharmacist went home before you got off work?

Addicts will find a way. Punishing the rest of us for wanting to breathe through our noses or treat our colds is bullshit. In case you haven't noticed, tweakers are still getting their shit, they're just getting their precursors from Mexico now. And who knows what crazy shit they'll come up with for their next cheap high if this one gets too hard to get. Access to drugs is not the problem. Emotionally healthy people won't abuse drugs no matter how easy they are to get, and emotionally fucked people will just chase a new high. We don't have a drug problem, we have a people problem. Let's try doing something for that besides criminalizing being a fucked up mess, because that's not working for anybody but the prison industry.

[cherokeeprogressive]

65. I can only imagine your anger at keeping minors from buying airplane glue or spray paint.

Who knows when an innocent person might need to build a model from Monogram in the middle of the night, right? And hey, I might have, as a teenager, a bicycle frame that needs to be painted before the light of day, so who's to say I can't as a minor buy as many cans of spray paint as I might need?

Spray paint isn't the sole domain of taggers. Model glue isn't the sole domain of model builders.

I bet you're okay with outlawing my wish to have a cigarrette in a bar though...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

71. Oh, I've no problem with teenagers buying glue and spray paint.

Also, I don't have a problem with teenagers going to R rated movies, even if it will corrupt their beautiful minds.

And I don't mind women walking around without burqas, even though it might distract the men folk with sexual attractiveness.

And I don't mind black people being around in town after sunset.

And I don't mind muslims being on airplanes, even though the terrists.

And so on.

Oh, and smoking kills a lot more people than meth does.

[cherokeeprogressive]

86. Placing model glue, spray paint, and R rated movies in the same category as meth is gladly agreeing

to be willfully ignorant.

You live in "Rural Oregon"? What the fuck do you know about vatos, bros, and white boys who make their bones with their compatriots by not only selling x grams of meth, but by bussin' a cap in the ass of anyone who sells in the places they piss in to mark their territory?

This discussion isn't about burquas, black people, or muslims, asshole. It's about the worst thing to happen to American Youth in the last fifty years: Crystal Meth.

Way to prove your ignorance on what goes on in large suburban areas.

You go, PronSyrup dude.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

120. Rural Oregon is widely regarded as the meth capital of the world.

Isn't it odd how any rural or semi-rural area is widely regarded as the meth capital of the world? They can't all be the meth capital of the world. Could it be just more drug war propaganda? Nah, couldn't possibly be.

Oh, we've got lots of meth here in rural Oregon. Probably a lot more than in Big Bear Lake.

But even with all the meth addicts, they're not half as bad as the drug warrior dicks telling me how much cold medicine I can buy.

[cherokeeprogressive]

139. Widely regarded by who?

It's after 12:30 here in paradise, and I would bet that I could score a gram within the next ten minutes without making a single phone call.

As for your assertion that meth addicts aren't as bad as those who would tell you how much cold medicine you can buy, I'd beg to differ, respectfully.

[ColesCountyDem]

144. The DEA says the rural Midwest is the 'center' of the US' meth production.

Granted, they're a bit biased, but in the absence of better evidence to the contrary, who's to say differently?

:shrug:

[LeftyMom]

72. Medical care is a right.

That includes unimpeded access to necessary medications. And the alternatives to Sudafed, et. al. simply are not comparably effective.

Comparing a legal and effective over the counter pharmaceutical with spray paint is just stupid. Nobody misses work or can't breathe if they can't buy a can of Krylon.

[havocmom]

197. Some of us live over an hour (one way) from anyplace that sells cold meds

Teeny tiny boxes are useless when you can't drive hours because you are sick and can't sleep.

Yep, it is ridiculous to put pointless limits on law abiding people. You are right, addicts (and pushers) will find ways around the rules anyway.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. How much prison time did you do for your cocaine habit?

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. Not a single day. I never got caught. I learned early on that

if you're breaking the law, don't break the law. That said, when I had coke in the car, I never exceeded the speed limit, never failed to use my turn signal, never gave "The Man" an excuse to pull me over in my old car.

I know personally a woman whose three kids died when her trailer burned to the ground while she and her boyfriend were cooking up a fresh batch of meth though, using cold remedies they bought in at least ten different stores in the same night, ranging from Apple Valley to Barstow to Victorville.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

Sounds awfully hypocritical to me.

[ColesCountyDem]

160. How's the air way up there on that mountaintop?

We lowly mortals who've actually dealt with this problem would like to know.

[grantcart]

88. glad you broke out of it

[cherokeeprogressive]

100. Thanks for that. No one is as glad as I am though.

I came home from 9 years in the Navy, only to find that the people I grew up with had moved from smoking pot to snorting speed, smoking speed, fixing speed, and drinking speed in their sodas.

I got caught up in it for a short while before I got sick and tired of waking up feeling sick and tired, after being up for two days. It was actually an easy decision to make, and I hadn't done so much of it that I was really "addicted".

I'm 48, and still have childhood friends who are trying to put it behind them.

[ColesCountyDem]

111. Good for both of you!

:thumbsup:

[ColesCountyDem]

159. Thank you! n/t

[Orsino]

180. An arrest, four months late, and a subsequent prosecution, are both full of shit.

In the four months since this lady committed her terrible crime, the police might have done some actual investigation.

If there was no evidence of meth manufacturing, I'm not going to be convinced that an arrest was necessary.

Zero-tolerance policies are full of shit.

[slay]

181. Making something illegal only puts in in the hands of gangs, the CIA, mexican mafia,

so I'm just saying - as bad as Meth is, and I agree is very bad - the drug war is worse. We can never eliminate it so we should learn to deal with it. (I don't smurf for boxes of sudo I promise.. heheh..)

[Rebubula]

198. Soo...

..you are OK with cops coming to your house if you buy multiple bottles of legal, over the counter medicine?

Cool.

[Fire1]

203. I thought 'crack' was the poor man's cocaine. n/t

[babylonsister]

3. Please, when will the stupidity stop? This is so dumb! nt

[ColesCountyDem]

4. Speaking as a resident of the 'meth capitol of the US', I'm a bit skeptical...

Why would you need to buy THAT MUCH cold medicine containing ephedrine at TWO ( or more ) different places? Indiana has a huge meth problem, too. My antennae perked up on this one, because I think there's much more to the story...

[uppityperson]

6. once I bought tylenol at 1 store, then later in week bought @ anothe store because I forgot I'd alre

already bought some. Another time I bought 2 bottle of ibuprofen at Costco, that is 1000 in each, stocking up.

There can be reasons.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. I didn't see how much she bought, but I know for a fact that it's how the meth labs

make their speed.

We have meth labs in Rialto, Fontana, Hesperia, Victorville, Apple Valley, and anywhere else you can rent a dive or park a trailer in Riverside or San Bernardino counties.

I've seen first hand what cooking and using meth can do to individuals from children to parents to single adults to everyone else in between.

I taught a woman in an adult school class who, after five months in a state sponsored program (and she was pretty smart, she passed Expert tests for certification in every Microsoft Office component), was responsible for the deaths of her three children when her trailer in Apple Valley caught fire and burned to the ground. Her and her boyfriend were cooking meth using cold medicine.

I'll wait before I accuse the cops of overstepping their authority on this one.

[wroberts189]

15. from the article .. it was maybe TWO boxes :

Now, Harpold is left defending herself against a law unknown to most people. Purchasing more than three grams is against the law. Depending on the size of the box, three grams is typically less than two boxes.

[Mojorabbit]

17. If you watch the video

at the link it is pretty obvious she is on the up and up.

[ColesCountyDem]

24. I DID watch it.

As a former cop AND criminal-defense attorney, she should have no problem gaining an acquittal, dismissal or directed verdict, assuming that she's on the up-and-up.

[wroberts189]

27. You saw the video and you still have suspicions? This old lady is a meth head?? nt

[ColesCountyDem]

34. Trust me, even meth heads have 'mom' and 'grandma' enablers.

If you lived in an area where meth was a major problem, you'd believe me.

:shrug:

[wroberts189]

61. You want your grandmother or mother (hopefully well) to go through this?

Ya know I really think what needs to be looked at here is how much she bought and the fact they found no meth lab.

[ColesCountyDem]

66. Agreed. Peruse some of my other posts.

Trust me, I'm, not a reactionary-- just someone who has dealt with the reality of the problem for years and years.

[wroberts189]

82. So maybe we should make prescription only?

Or some other way of dealing with it ..like a state issued coupon card?

[ColesCountyDem]

91. I could go with that. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

191. Which leaves her shamed

in front of her community and liable for court costs. If this were my mom I would be royally pissed.

[wroberts189]

25. Yep .. she is no meth cooker thats for sure. nt

[ArcticFox]

22. Who cares?

Maybe she bought one box and left it at home, then bought another box the next day when she needed it at work. What does it matter? Law enforcement should have some modicum of reasonableness. If she was producing methamphetamine, that's one thing. Just taking some pseudephed is another. These cops should be ashamed of themselves.

[wroberts189]

30. Yep.. they should be ashamed. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. I don't care if she was injecting pure meth into puppies and selling it to kindergarteners.

Want to charge her for some meth crime? Find some actual meth.

[LeftyMom]

46. Maybe more than one person in the household had a cold? Rumor has it they're contagious.

A couple of boxes of cold medicine isn't going to make enough meth to pay for the gas and cost of the pills to make it. It's a cheap drug for people who can't afford anything better, people who make it get their precursors in bulk or it wouldn't make any financial sense (and they still usually are doing it to cover costs of their own habits, you don't see people getting rich selling that crap to shift workers and chavs.

[ColesCountyDem]

48. Would that that were true.

I live in 'meth central US', and the fact is that meth users buy cold medicine as a matter of choice. It is a pure precursor, and saves a TON of time in cooking a batch up. Ask me about theft of anhydrous ammonia, some time...

:hi:

[LeftyMom]

64. They don't buy it retail, it kills their profit margin.

They usually either steal it or bulk buy it, getting 24 caplets for $7 isn't profitable. It used to be you could get giant fucking bottles at Costco for almost no money (that was like early 90's, when I was well aware of this problem and you'd probably never heard of it) and back then people did do that, but these days the preferred way is to buy a fuckton at some mexican pharmacy or over the internet. :eyes:

So please shut up if you don't actually know what you're talking about. Happening to live in some podunk county where Sheriff Bubba says there's a real bad meth problem to get some federal drug money to divert to buying a shiny new truck to impress the ladies at the line dancing bar on friday nights doesn't make you an expert. On anything.

[ColesCountyDem]

69. I do know what I'm talking about.

You seem to be caught up in the whole 'profit' mindset, and that doesn't apply 99% of the time. the VAST majority of meth labs are not being run 'for profit', but for QUANTITY-- for personal use! The only people currently motivated by profit are largely the Mexican drug lords.

:eyes:

[LeftyMom]

80. Yep, I have no idea. Not like my own late stepdad used to cook that shit or anything.

Not like I work with addicts all fucking day long, either.

Go try your obviously ignorant drug war bullshit with somebody who doesn't know that the fuck they're talking about, because I'm not buying it. We can't all be internet lawyer/cop/drug manufacture experts (is that you Orly?) but that's okay because some of us aren't completely full of shit and have actual reason to know that we're talking about.

[ColesCountyDem]

85. Don't miss the forest for the trees, lady.

Why are YOUR personal experiences valid, but mine aren't? You really need to realize that other people have dealt with this problem, too, not just you.

:eyes:

[LeftyMom]

95. Sure, but the rest of them aren't setting themselves up as experts and saying utter horseshit.

I'm really glad you're saving the greater East Bumblefuck metropolitan area from the great Sudafed menace, but drug war crap doesn't fly on DU. Or at least it didn't before we got an influx of spineless center-rightists who thought that disliking Bush and honking approval at an anti-war protester once made them real live radicals like they saw on the teevee once. :eyes:

[ColesCountyDem]

99. You haven't read a single other thing I've posted here, have you?

I've said that the 'war on drugs' is an utter failure, but you've somehow overlooked that in your self-righteousness. Furthermore, pardon me frem being from 'East Bumblefuck', Ms. Cosmoploitan know-it-all...

:eyes:

[ecstatic]

57. I recall buying several different cold medicines one time because

I was so desperate to find something that worked. I think it was DayQuil, NyQuil and some pills. Nobody said anything to me. Wow! Didn't know about this law!

[Control-Z]

132. With a family of 5, all sick at the same time,

it is NOT unusual for mom to go out and buy cold medicine for the entire family. Ask me. I've been doing it for years. And, unless she is trying to hide something, there isn't a woman in the world who would even think about sending someone else out to buy "part" of it.

Oh, and when cold medicine goes on sale, I buy as much as I can. Even my pharmacist reminds me to buy extra when it's on sale.

It is seriously sad that you aren't able to think outside your own bubble. You (and several other posters on this thread) need to expand your mind.

Edit: typo

[ColesCountyDem]

156. My response: the law is the law, and ignorance is no excuse.

You wanted a response, and now you have it.

[Lyric]

149. I'm a college student with a child.

Colds tend to migrate to the whole family, so when we're sick, we all need to be able to function at school and sleep at night. Before the draconian pseudoephedrine restrictions, I'd buy Dayquil for daytime, Nyquil for nighttime, children's daytime cold meds for the kidlet during school hours, and children's nighttime cold meds for him at night. That's four different medicines right there--day and night versions for adults and children.

We can't do that anymore. Now, I have to buy MORE medicines--instead of the all-in-ones, I now have to purchase pseudoephedrine, antihistamines, and cough/congestion medicines separately to try and re-create the old cold medicines on my own, because the only kid-safe version of pseudoephedrine that our pharmacy has is the box of plain tablets. I'm sure the manufacturers of single-ingredient cold meds are perfectly pleased, but I'm spending twenty bucks or more to get the same effect that used to be bottled as one multi-ingredient cold medication for six or seven bucks. It's inconvenient as hell, and potentially dangerous--someone less aware about medicines might accidentally dose their child twice with the same medication, for example, while trying to mix-and-match. *I* know better than to do that, but not everyone is like me. I shudder to think how many people unknowingly overdose their kids because they're dealing with four or five bottles of medication instead of just one.

Frankly, the whole situation sucks.

[dmr]

154. When a house full of people have sinus problems or colds, one box will not do

Before the cold season hit, I use to buy 3-5 boxes to have on hand, along with throat lozenges and such. Once a cold hits, you want to stay inside or in bed. Nobody wants to run to the store.

Next time I go to the doctors, I'm going to ask for a script of 60mg to keep on hand, especially since I need to take something (right now it's the other crap) for my sinuses each night just so I can sleep.

[valerief]

5. Hmm, I guess I just learned to buy Nyquil with cash only.

I buy 1, maybe 2, a year. I don't even know if it contains pseudoephedrine.

[Better Today]

8. Around here you have to have your ID scanned or xeroxed

and they put it in a data base shared by all pharmacies and the police. Cash wouldn't help.

[valerief]

21. Wow! That's crazy. nt

[City Lights]

182. And around here, when you hand over your ID, you're told if you're over the limit.

Edited to clarify:

You're told if you're over the limit only in places that use a scanner, and if your purchases putting you over the limit were from the same place.

[ColesCountyDem]

9. You're safe.

I won't claim to know what Indiana's law on this is, but Illinois' law is pretty straight-forward: retailers are required to keep products containing ephedrine 'behind the counter', and the purchse of more than a certain amount of ephedrine at one time OR annually is a crime. The warnings are not only clearly posted in pharmacies, but the pharmacist or clerk is required to inform you of the law.

I take Sudafed ( the real stuff) occasionally for allergies/head colds, etc., and my doctor knows this. He solved any potential problem by prescribing them for me. Problem solved, law complied with.

If you do not live in an area where methamphetamine is a problem, thank your lucky stars! You cannot imagine what it's like...

[valerief]

23. I'm in New England. I don't think there's a meth problem here, but I don't

really know. We're pretty crowded here, so probably not.

[ColesCountyDem]

31. You're OK-- for now.

Unfortunately, the 'center' is right here in Illinois, with Missouri running a close second. I'm generally libertarian on most personal issues, including drug use, but am adamantly negative about methamphetamine. This drug is in an an entirely different category from what the average American considers 'recreational drugs'. This drug alters your brain chemistry the very first time you use it.

Scary stuff, let me tell ya...

[City Lights]

188. It's a federal law...part of the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005.

The Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005 (CMEA) was signed into law on March 9, 2006, to regulate, among other things, retail over-the-counter sales of ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine products. Retail provisions of the CMEA include daily sales limits and 30-day purchase limits, placement of product out of direct customer access, sales logbooks, customer ID verification, employee training, and self-certification of regulated sellers. The CMEA is found as Title VII of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 (Public Law 109-177).

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/meth/q_a.htm

[Cha]

7. What! I don't buy any "cold" medicine and

now I have another reason why.

What if she had paid cash?

[dysfunctional press]

you still have to show an i.d. to get it in some places...

they don't even keep a single box available on the regular shelves.

[aquart]

18. In NYC, you need a state or federal id to buy Sudafed, a non-addictive decongestant.

THE LAW IS FUCKING INSANE!!!!

We're talking a PASSPORT! Not everyone in Manhattan has a driver's license.

[nilram]

45. and you're LUCKY -- in Oregon, you have to have a Dr's Prescription

to get pseudoephedrine. They sell Sudafed over the counter, but it has a substitute decongestant that doesn't work worth beans. One study said it was no better than placebo.

So now it's way more difficult for the average dealer to get the main ingredient for meth. What did that do? It put the small dealers out of business, and now meth comes into the state through organized crime. I gather that law enforcement would rather be dealing with the small-timers. Oh well, can't erase that law now, otherwise you'd be soft on drugs.

[BrightKnight]

135. That is a waste of medical resources and

if you a can't afford a doctor then you have to suffer.

[aquart]

172. We have the substitute but I won't buy it.

A prescription would have been easier. Instead I was cadging from my mother till I got my non-driver id. WHICH I HAD TO PAY FOR WHICH MAKES IT A TAX on a perfectly safe, useful drug.

[Speck Tater]

10. I've said it before: The human race is collectively too stupid to survive extinction. nt

[Echo In Light]

186. That's the spirit! lol

Never underestimate the power of denial.

[sunsi]

11. I'll have to change my outlaw ways, lol

Thanks for this article I usually buy two boxes at a time to save running back and forth to the store. Only one box from now on don't want to be an outlaw. O8)

[wroberts189]

12. hope she goes to trial and wins...then sues their butts off. nt

[Juche]

14. I didn't know about this law

Apparently it is only a class C misdemeanor, so jaywalking or loitering are more serious crimes.

But I can see how a person might buy some pseudoephedrine products and lose them, then buy another box later in the week. However most only have 30mg, so I guess you'd need to buy over 100 pills in a week.

I'm looking at the indiana criminal code. Apparently 'exhibiting pornography to another person' is a class A misdemeanor here. So I guess everyone who has ever said "hey jeff look at this video" is guilty of a crime. I am assuming everyone has a friend named Jeff.

[EFerrari]

16. Yikes. What if the whole family is down with something?

One of those bottles only has about 6 adult doses in it, isn't that right? What if there's four of you sick? What a stupid law.

[CreekDog]

19. if that cop thinks that intent has no role in this

then he's an idiot.

[wroberts189]

20. Can someone tell me how many boxes you need to have bought ...

in order to prove your are making meth out of it?

[azurnoir]

114. well when the law first passed a few years back in my state

I Googled methamphetamine and got a number of recipes for the stuff, apparently it takes 10 or more grams of sudaphed to make one gram of meth so an average box Sudaphed is 24 tabs at 30mgs each thats 720 mgs per box a a gram is 1000 miligrams so 10,0000 mgs of sudaphed to make a gram of meth or about 14 boxs

[wroberts189]

192. Thanks.. very informative nt

[SidDithers]

193. Or, with Sudafed 12-hour...

which has 20 x 120mg caplets = 2.4 g / box.

Means you only need about 4, maybe 5 boxes.

Sid

[RamboLiberal]

26. This is really Bullshit - poor lady got caught up in a drug sweep

of 22 other suspects.

If an innocent citizen can get caught up in this trap they damn well ought to just make it a prescription drug.

They should drop the charges against this lady - that ignorance crap is a load of bull. What a crock that you now have to be afraid to buy too much cold or allergy meds cause some aholes use it to cook meth!

BTW, what the hell took them so long - she bought the stuff in March and they only getting around to busting her in July! If she really was cooking meth wouldn't she be buying a helluva lot more?

This is the raid she got caught up in.

http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/news_wthi_terrehaute_pseudophedrine_arrests_20097301641

[wroberts189]

53. Good point ..make it prescription only if its thats bad.

Not to say I want to pay for a doctors visit to take care of an allergy.


But I would rather that then a swat team.

[ColesCountyDem]

140. An office call is a damned sight cheaper than a good lawyer.

When life gives you two bad choices, take the one that's least expensive!

;)

[imdjh]

28. What a load of crap. I can't believe we sign off on this shit for "health and safety" and of course

....THE CHILDREN!!!!!!

If you got rid of all the drugs tomorrow, they would huff gasoline or super glue.

[ColesCountyDem]

33. Do you deal with the reality of LOTS of meth heads on a daily basis?

Principles are fine things, until reality slaps them all over the map.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Ah, the John Ashcroft approach to civil liberties.

A little bit of liberty is a small price to pay for phony security.

[ColesCountyDem]

39. Not even close.

It's called the 'real world' approach to 'real world' problems. The Constitution is not a suicide pact, friend.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Yeah, that's the same thing he said.

"Grown ups are in charge" and whatnot.

[ColesCountyDem]

42. Do you have a specific, Constitutionally-based objection?

Or are you just stirring shit, to see how it smells?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Well, there's the eighth amendment.

But mostly I just object on the grounds of common sense and basic human decency.

[ColesCountyDem]

55. What *specifically* about the 8th Amendment makes this case objectionable?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Punishing people for buying cold medicine is cruel and unusual.

[ColesCountyDem]

73. Not if it exceeds a certain amount, it isn't.

If you want to buy 10 sticks of dynamite, e.g., and you're clearing a field (or whatever), that should be OK. If, however, you want to buy 10 cases of dynamite, why shouldn't that be of interest to law enforcement?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Sure it is.

Cold medicine and dynamite?

Nice stretch there, Stretch Armstrong.

[ColesCountyDem]

83. No, decent analogy, Mr. Blind to Reality. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. Comparing cold medicine to dynamite is a good analogy?

Maybe, but not as good as you and John Ashcroft.

[ColesCountyDem]

89. Give the whole 'John Ashcroft' thing a rest.

Call me out, if you want to, but otherwise make a decent argument...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

90. I will when you will.

[ColesCountyDem]

94. That doesn't even make sense, in context.

If you can make a logical, 8th Amendment-based argument, do so.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

101. Already did.

Then there's the whole habeus corpus issue.

Obviously this cold medicine thing is an attempt to fight meth, but they can't produce evidence for meth so they have to resort to cold medicine.

Standard fascist bullshit.

[ColesCountyDem]

104. You haven't, actually.

You've regurgitated some specious pap about what you think the 8th Amendment says, without ever putting forth a coherent legal argument supporting your position.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

106. Oh, I have.

But I'm not expecting people like you to consider it, or care anyway.

[ColesCountyDem]

107. " ... people like you ...."

Care to expand on what you mean by that particular choice of words?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

110. Drug warriors.

McGruff the Crime Dogs.

Nancy Reagans.

Teatotallers.

John Ashcrofts.

John Yoos.

[ColesCountyDem]

116. I'm not a drug warrior, friend.

I did the job I was paid to do when I did it, both as a deputy and as a defense attorney. MY beliefs on the subject are different, as you'd know had you read several other of my posts in this thread.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

121. Yeah, yeah, you're not a drug warrior.

And I'm an astronaut.

[ColesCountyDem]

124. Hello, John Glenn!

Some argument you have there...

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

47. If the Sheriff himself says this arrest could have happened to anybody

then clearly this law is not filtering out innocent people. It's a waste of LE resources in addition to being an unnecessary hassle for people whose only crime is having a cold. Do we want to allocate LEOs for this stupidity when most communities have more urgent needs?

[ColesCountyDem]

50. This is where common sense needs to enter the picture.

I'm not contending that this woman is running a meth lab, or anything remotely similar. Now is tne time for Mr./Ms. Prosecutor to take a deep breath and say, "OK, we f*cked up on this one" ...

[wroberts189]

56. YES.. and also a change in policy. nt

[ColesCountyDem]

62. No real argument with that, either.

The 'War on Drugs' has been a miserable failure. Any LEO with any integrity whatsoever will tell you that the only people who exit 'the loop' -- ever-- are those who go into decent rehab programs. Still, let's not blind ourselves to the realities of the problem, OK?

:hi:

[wroberts189]

67. I won't blind myself... I advocate make it prescription only...

Its better then a swat home invasion of your grandparents.

[Flaneur]

96. Any LEO with any integrity will admit he doesn't know shit about drugs.

Cops get to see the most fucked up drugs users, just like they get to see the most fucked up alcohol users.

That doesn't make them experts in drugs and their effects, just experts on how humans can fuck up.

Cops deal with domestic violence all the time. Does that make them experts on marriage? Their divorce rate suggests not.

[EFerrari]

60. The bar is too low. Fine, require that vendors keep records.

That makes sense. But arresting someone because they bought two or three bottles of the stuff in one week is stupid, waste of cop time and traumatizing for the wrong people.

Raise the bar a little bit and make it more product over more time. That'll filter out people who are just sick, and save all that bad feeling in the community when you take grandma in because she lost the first bottle in her purse. If I were the god of cold medicine law, lol, that's what I would do anyway.

[cherokeeprogressive]

108. Tell me of a more urgent Law Enforcement Need than stopping the use of Crystal Meth

in Southern California.

Name a community in ANY PART OF CALIFORNIA that has a more urgent need than that?

[ColesCountyDem]

109. Replace 'California' with 'Illinois'.

Be prepared to be attacked as some sort of fascist, however.

[cherokeeprogressive]

117. Only a fascist would wonder why a person would travel to two different stores to buy

the same cold medicine. Was the first one out of her favored product? Maybe the second one had a better price that she saw in the newspaper AFTER buying her dose at the first store?

I know crystal meth, I know the people who cook it, and I know better than to think it's something law enforcement should overlook.

[EFerrari]

119. No one is advocating law enforcement overlook meth.

[ColesCountyDem]

125. Read some of the posts here. I beg to disagree.

Some people seem to have an objection to LEOs being involved in any shape, fashion or form.

[EFerrari]

130. Well, that doesn't make sense to me. Addicts do stupid

and dangerous destructive stuff all the time when they're using. Someone has to put those boundaries down and hold them down. As with so many mental health issues, LEOs get stuck with what the rest of the culture bails on and that' a shame.

[ColesCountyDem]

133. Agreed.

The 'medical model' for substance-abuse is the only thing that has EVER worked to help abusers exit 'the loop'. In the absence of that-- and it is CLEARLY absent here in the US, for the most part-- the general public, via their elected legislators, expect LEOs to be something akin to the guy who follows the parade with a broom and shovel (but reserving the right to bitch, moan and whine when LEOs actually enforce the laws that they themselves demanded their representatives enact!

Some days it makes you wonder if the inmates aren't running the asylum.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

138. We seem to believe that the best place for the mentally ill is in jail.

Best technology in the world and it doesn't get delivered. That IS crazy. :shrug:

[ColesCountyDem]

142. Yes, it's absolutely insane.

By default, LEOs have become the country's mental-health warriors. If that isn't f*cked up, I don't know what is.

[EFerrari]

145. Do you guys have DayTop out there?

It's about the best rehab program I've ever seen. It was started in NYC with some help from Catholic Charities and we were lucky enough to have it migrate out here. It's a residential program that's pretty long. Long enough to change a kid's self image and get him into a different culture. The family must participate in order to even see the kid once a week. Strict as hell, really loving and really, really smart, too. They really do what the damn glossy brochures from other programs promise to do and it's hard, hard work for the whole family. You have to be in it for real because if you screw around, your kid gets kicked out on his/her butt.

[ColesCountyDem]

152. No, but we have the 'Hour House'.

It's also run by Catholic Social Services, and sounds almost identical to the program you're describing. They do a fantastic job.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

113. If this Sheriff is saying the wrong people are getting arrested

which he basically is, we're not talking about drug interdiction really, are we?

And save the lecture. I haven't even seen my youngest son in two years.

[ColesCountyDem]

122. No lecture, and I'm sorry about your son.

Laws like this one are what happens when 'the public' demands that their 'next-election-strategy' legislators respond to any problem in a knee-jerk fashion.

:hug:

[EFerrari]

126. Yep. Gotta throw the crowd something.

Yeah, it's hard not knowing how your kid is. Nothing ever prepares you for something like that. He knows he can't come here dirty so, I guess I'll know if and when he cleans up. On the other hand, there are two other recovered addicts in the family with years and years. He knows it can be done.

[cherokeeprogressive]

131. My kneejerk reaction is much the same as that of an ex-smoker being militant about where people

should smoke and where it should be prohibited.

I hope you've at least heard from your son. Now I feel bad. I didn't mean to lecture. I have personal experience though, personal experience I don't mind admitting to be ashamed of, as well as witness exerience as to how bad meth can affect peoples' lives.

Drug interdiction of the sort that would hinder meth trafficking has to start at the lowest level. That, in my mind, would involve tracking the purchase of cold remedies in a larger quantity than would be recommended by the manufacturer.

I hope your son reads DU (if he's like you, he might) and realizes how much he misses his mom.

[EFerrari]

134. Oh, no problem at all. I understand.

No, I haven't heard from him and probably won't unless he decides he can make a change.

Don't feel bad. Most of us have some kind of story. :)

[ColesCountyDem]

137. Give me a freebie pass on this one hug, OK?

:hug::hi:

[EFerrari]

147. Thanks, ColesCountyDem. I'll take it.

:hi:

[ColesCountyDem]

136. The only drugs even *remotely* as destructive of people and relationships are heroin and cocaine.

Until someone has dealt with it on a daily basis for years, it's hard to explain. Broken homes, broken lives, broken hearts... Just too sad for any words other than " I'm sorry" .

:cry:

[anneboleyn]

161. Amen. This story is unbelievable.

[ColesCountyDem]

167. Stupid laws produce stupid results.

Why are you surprised?

[imdjh]

43. I live in Florida

[ColesCountyDem]

44. Then you know... n/t

[LeftyMom]

51. I do. I'm willing to bet I know that reality a lot better than you do.

I've dealt with it personally (my own mother is in recovery,) I deal with it professionally because many of my clients are addicts.

I still think this law is utter bullshit, and for that matter it won't keep one person from getting spun if they want to.

[ColesCountyDem]

59. I've dealt with it, too, both as a deputy sheriff and a defense attorney.

Rather than degenerating into a pissing contest, can we agree to disagree?

:hi:

[LeftyMom]

68. I'm calling BS.

You haven't said anything about this that suggests some "expertise" beyond watching a scare story on the Channel Six Action News At Ten while eating your TV dinner and waiting for Letterman to come on. In fact, some of your "facts," such as meth cooks buying their pills retail, are obviously wrong and anybody with half a brain could figure that out with a little back of the envelope math.

But nice try, Sheriff Internet Drug Warrior.

[ColesCountyDem]

79. Call BS all you want to.

I know what I know, just as well as you do. You can be as condescending and all-knowing as you want, but that doesn't change reality, does it?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. Ever notice how they're always with police officers or lawyers?

Me? I'm an astronaut.

[ColesCountyDem]

97. Huh?

What are you talking about?

[LeftyMom]

102. Appeals to authority work on gullible people.

Sure, it's an obvious fallacy, but in the absence of evidence waving credentials around, whether they're real or imagined, might impress somebody and it's better than nothing.

[ColesCountyDem]

105. Is this the 8th grade?

I know I am, but what are you?

:eyes:

[anneboleyn]

164. I'm with you, HFPS. Something is very stinky.

[anneboleyn]

166. *snort* Best reply I have read today!

[RamboLiberal]

63. So f'ing what - maybe bars should stop selling booze

Innocent citizens who have colds or allergies shouldn't have to suffer cause some idiots are meth heads or worry cops are going to come busting down their door cause they bought a box or two too many!

But the law of unintended consequences struck again this month -- or in the case of loal sheriffs, perhaps intended consequences -- this time landing squarely on the head of a Mason City man who knows nothing about meth, but knows a lot about suffering from chronic nasal congestion. Gary Schinagel, 47, a senior investment associate at Principal Financial Group in Mason City, was arrested for the illegal purchase of pseudoephedrine after buying generic cold medicines to treat his condition.

Schinagel told the Mason City Globe Gazette his through-the-looking-glass encounter with the drug war began when his niece called him and told him he had been listed in a newspaper article as one of the uncaught miscreants in a roundup of violators of the cold medicine law. Schinagel went to the sheriff's office thinking he could clear up the "mistake," but was instead arrested.

"It is a sinking feeling to be placed under arrest," said Schinagel. "I'm not a stick-in-the-mud but I've tried all my life to abide by the law and not cross any lines I shouldn't cross. I've tried all my life to avoid situations like I find myself in now. And I still don't know which line I crossed," he said, wondering if he had purchased too many pills in one day or in one month.

He had to call his bank to get the $1,000 bail bond needed to get him out of jail. "It was embarrassing," he said. "The woman at the bank recognized my voice. I sang in the choir with her."

No word yet on apologies from the cops or when his charges will be dropped. In the meantime, Schinagel is taking cold pills that don't contain pseudoephedrine. They don't work as well, he said, and he has to buy more boxes. One more example of collateral damage in the drug war.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/554/iowa_nasal_congestion_meth_pseudoephedrine

Spurred by new laws restricting the sales of cold remedies such as Sudafed, which contain pseudoephedrine, a necessary component of popular meth-cooking recipes, police and prosecutors across the country have been arresting convenience store clerks -- sometimes on charges that carry substantial prison sentences. In one Georgia case, authorities made mass arrests of immigrant store clerks and owners, but it's starting to look less like a criminal conspiracy and more like culturally naive foreign-born merchants simply trying to sell their merchandise.

It's all a big waste of money, says the Drug Policy Alliance, which issued a press release this week calling for money spent prosecuting and imprisoning store clerks to instead be spent on treatment for meth addicts. "Convenience store clerks have become the latest casualities in the war on drugs," said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance. "Selling lighter fluid, cold medicine and other legal items shouldn't get someone decades in prison."

But that's what 49 rural northwest Georgia store clerks and owners, 44 of them Indian immigrants, are facing in the wake of a federal sting called Operation Meth Merchant, the brainchild of US Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia David Nahmias. Nahmias sent various undercover informants into the stores seeking items that could be used to make meth, then indicted the clerks on charges that could net them 20 years in prison. Nahmias told the New York Times he was convinced the clerks were guilty.

But as preliminary motions in the cases are filed, defense attorneys have been able to argue convincingly that the clerks and store owners often didn't understand that the informants were trying to tell them they wanted products for cooking meth. "They're not really paying attention to what they're being told," said Steve Sadow, one of the lawyers. "Their business is: I ring it up, you leave, I've done my job. Call it language or idiom or culture, I'm not sure you're able to show they know there's anything wrong with what they're doing," he told the Times.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/399/storeclerks.shtml

[Silent3]

75. Have you seen one spec of evidence that meth production has gone down...

...or that even if has gone down some very tiny amount, that people aren't simply switching to other drugs instead?

What's really annoying about stupid laws like this, that inconvenience and punish ordinary people with legitimate needs, is that is doesn't matter one bit if they're even slightly effective: Once they're on the books, it's damned hard to get them off, because anyone who moves to get rid of this crap with be accused of being "soft on crime".

I have allergies and I have to buy Claritin-D all of the time. It pisses me off that I can stock up on a bunch of it at once to save myself repeated trips to the pharmacy, where I have to present ID and sign for the damned stuff. And now that it's such a hassle to buy it's hardly ever on sale as often as it used to be.

[ColesCountyDem]

81. No, I haven't, which is why in some other posts here...

... I have stated that I think the law, like the vast majority of drug laws, is a waste of time. Medical rehab offers the ONLY credible 'exit strategy' from the so-called 'War on Drugs'.

[rve300]

112. Protecting the stupid from themselves...

Here in Australia, where your actions can cost the government money because the public pays for your health care(say hurting yourself with fireworks), they have passed all sorts of laws that ban anything fun to ensure everyone is safe. Drug users cost the health care system money, they will not be allowed to live free and die. Their actions will become even more criminalize. When you trade the responsibility of paying for your own health care, you lose the right to make stupid choices. And when you take the choice away from the stupid people, the smart folks lose out too. The public will not pay for you to be a libertarian. You will need to make a choice.

[NYC_SKP]

32. Pseudoephedrine, raw ingredient for cooking up Crank/Meth...

Sales are very restricted in many places, never heard of this kind of reaction, however.

Wow.

[ColesCountyDem]

35. BTW, WTHI is my local news station. n/t

[The Hope Mobile]

76. Actually . . . my sister was drinking 3 bottles of Robitussin DM/day for about a

year, maybe a bit longer. There's codeine in it and it gives an incredibly euphoric buzz. She lost her 3 kids, was suicidal, drove wasted daily, destroyed her health . . . it was a big mess. She's in rehab now (again). My point is that tho getting arrested for this is seriously extreme . . . cold medicine is nowhere near as benign as it sounds.

[wroberts189]

92. Umm ..there is no codeine in Robitussin DM ..unless prescription.

In the usa.. is this another country you are in?

[The Hope Mobile]

No-that's what I was told by the rehab people, but this much I can tell you . . . it seriously

messed her up. It was over the counter. Her house was stocked full of them.

[wroberts189]

196. It must have been the DXM then...

Codeine is a controlled substance in the us. Script only ..and you had better fake that cough really good.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan#Recreational_use


Since their introduction, over-the-counter preparations containing dextromethorphan have been used in a manner inconsistent with their labeling, often as a recreational drug.<3> At doses higher than medically recommended, dextromethorphan is classified as a dissociative psychedelic drug, with visible effects that are similar to those of ketamine and phencyclidine (PCP). It can produce distortions of the visual field, feelings of dissociation, distortions of bodily perception, excitement, as well as a loss of comprehension of time.<21> <22>

[wroberts189]

78. I thought they had a lid on all the other chemicals you need for this???

You know .. the same for ectasy and lsd?

[ColesCountyDem]

84. So the MSM would lead you to believe, huh?

The laws we have are Band-Aids on gaping wounds.

[wroberts189]

98. I did read about the other chemicals...

getting sold out of warehouses clandestine. It was an article from long past.

But I thought they had fixed that.

[ColesCountyDem]

103. Theft of anhydrous ammonia is a huge problem, in spite of the laws against it.

I've yet to see a single MSM story about it, however.

:shrug:

[Lorien]

115. So buying Nyquil at Costco will automatically get you arrested?

It comes in two extra large bottles, like everything at Costco!

[ColesCountyDem]

118. No, it won't.

Just like Sam's Club here in IL, they don't and won't package quantities that are illegal, per se.

[underseasurveyor]

123. It usually starts with a couple boxes of cold medicine

Soon she'll be up to nyquil. Then my god...... well let's just say it's rehab time for her.

Now who in the HELL knows that it's against the law to buy more than a couple of piddly-ass boxes of cold medicine in one week? I sure as hell didn't and that certainly wasn't enough to make meth. Man it's bad... But OH go to your doctor and have him PRESCRIBE you a bunch of crap for your cold. Fuck that and big pharma too. They're the worst kind of drug dealers of them all.

[JCMach1]

127. Pseudoephedrine is the cheapest and the most effective medicine for my allergies

and I have to be treated like a criminal every time I buy it... :grr:

[ColesCountyDem]

129. Just ask your doc for a 'scrip.

Problem solved.

[JCMach1]

150. I should say when I am home in Florida...

you still have to have your ID recorded in Florida and sign a form regardless of prescription in the state...

In the UAE which has ungodly restrictions on drugs, I buy Advil cold and sinus straight off the shelf with no problems.

[Control-Z]

151. Gawd, you're

insufferable. Really.

[ColesCountyDem]

153. I apologize for stealing your oxygen.

I'll never force you to read another of my posts-- I promise!

:eyes:

[Control-Z]

155. Why don't you respond to my post #132?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6231212&mesg_id=6231743

Your statement was ridiculous and you know it.

[MagickMuffin]

157. It's only "solved" in you have a doc

I don't have a doc. I don't have insurance. So, according to your assessment I shouldn't be allowed to buy cold medicine :shrug:


Luckily I don't require having to worry about it since I usually don't suffer from colds.

[ColesCountyDem]

158. I didn't say you shoouldn't be allowed to buy cold medicines containing ephedrine.

My state allows people to buy reasonable quantities of those medicines. If you somehow need more than the quantity the state deems 'reasonable', then there is a problem.

[eridani]

170. No, it isn't

What if they screw up your mail order and they won't give your enough to get you to sleep on the grounds that the legal limit is supposed to be in the mail? That happened to me.

[ColesCountyDem]

173. Doctors do mail-order now?

Interesting...

[eridani]

177. HMOs with decent internal computer networks do n/t

[Lagomorph]

146. It's stupid...

Here in Washington State, we can buy one box a week and we sign for it. The pharmacies are all plugged into a database and the gov't won't allow you to buy another one.

Unfortunately, one box of cold medicine won't last a week if I have a cold, so I have to buy cold medicine when I don't have a cold or just run around spreading the joy.

I don't really like having to plan my life to function under all the government restrictions, rather than put my resources where I need them at the moment.

[sofa king]

163. I was a little unclear on the idea at first.

But having read through this thread I realize now that some meth aficionados prefer to make it for themselves.

So... can't law enforcement simply use the apparent violation to get a search warrant, and drop the charges if nothing is found?

But that's asking too much, I think. Didn't a southern state recently outlaw all cannabinoids, which makes every resident of that state a lawbreaker since those chemicals are produced by the human brain?

[ColesCountyDem]

165. The 'scatter gun approach' is exactly the problem.

Substance-abuse is a medical problem, but until the general public is willing to fully fund treatment for every single addict, rather than punishment, stupid laws that waste everyone's resources, ruin lives and reputations are just exactly what the public will unthinkingly demand-- and get!

[sofa king]

179. Yep. There's two things need changing.

I concur about treating drug abuse as a health problem. But until recreational drug use (including tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceuticals) is accepted as what it is--a primary form of recreation for most Americans--we will all be victimized for what we all secretly condone.

[daedalus_dude]

168. Pretty idiotic. Let's punish people for buying glue to actually glue stuff with

because it is also possible to sniff glue.

[eridani]

169. Pseudoephedrine is the only effective treatment I've found for my sinus condition

That plus the nasal spray Flunisolide. If I don't take it, I don't sleep. At all. It is not possible to sleep with your lungs full of fluid. I get the 12 hour caps a month's supply at a time from my HMO by mail order. One month last year they screwed up the order and I ran out. They would not let me have any at their walk-in pharmacy because I already had the legal limit on order. So I faked an ID and got it a few miles away. Anyone who thinks I belong in jail for that can just go take a napalm enema.

Oddly enough, I find other cold remedies to be more effective for actual colds. It's very easy for me to tell when I have a cold on top of my regular sinus condition. When I have a cold I can blow my nose.

[ColesCountyDem]

174. So, your HMO screwed up, correct?

Good argument for using a paper 'scrip and a local pharmacy, if ever I heard one.

:shrug:

[eridani]

178. Except for driving or bussing to the pharmacy every couple of weeks

And if your regular pharmacy is out, then what? What kind of jackass advocates constantly fucking around changing your pharmacy every time this happens? That was one reason I got the mail order prescription for a month's supply at a time.

[ThomCat]

176. The prison industry isn't making enough money yet.

We haven't yet criminalized a large enough percentage of our people. We need more ways to turn citizens into criminals over trivial shit. This is the next big way!

If you buy a box, and then OMG you lose it somewhere and have to buy another one, Off to Jail you go unless they decide to be nice.

But how often are they going to be nice? Only as long as this keeps getting news coverage is my guess. And that's only as long as this is new. Once this novelty wears off and it becomes old news, then people will start getting real jail sentences for this.

[PVnRT]

183. I'm no fan of this cold medicine law, but...

I would just like to point out to all the people whining about not getting medicine for their common cold that I need a fucking prescription to get insulin needles that I need to survive. If you need to down that much ephedrine to get over a cold, you need to go see a doctor.

[NashVegas]

184. Rush Limbaugh Never Got any Jail Time

For prescription shopping.

[LynneSin]

195. +1

Seriously +1

[City Lights]

185. Are we safe yet?

This ticks me off to no end.

We run into the Patriot Act every time we try and buy Sudafed. Three of us use it, but only two are old enough to buy it. It got bad enough that other family members offered to buy us some. We finally got sick of the hassle and asked our daughter's allergist to write her an Rx for it. Haven't had a problem since.

Either way, a big fuck you to Gee Dubya, and all in Congress who voted for the "Patriot" Act. :thumbsdown:

[Echo In Light]

190. And I'll back that last sentiment up 100%

:thumbsup:

[TexasObserver]

187. Police state. It's here.

[SoCalDem]

189. I had to sign a paper when I got meds from our VET, for our cat

One one the 4 meds he prescribed was "on the list".. :rofl:

[kiva]

199. A few years ago I gave my cat some med for a few months

and then a couple of years later I got a letter inviting him to join a class action suit against the drug manufacturer. Damn furball refused to join, said I'd neutered him and no way was he going make me any money. :rofl:

[SoCalDem]

200. The exact same eye meds I paid $40 for were gievn to my cat..for $6.00

and his bottle was even bigger....same box..same drops:)

[kiva]

201. I had to buy these at the drugstore, the vet didn't carry them.

When I turned in the prescription the pharmacy person asked the age of the patient...had to explain that he was only two, but very furry for his age.

[SoCalDem]

202. You reminded me of a hysterical thing that happened.

My friend had a 17 yr old cat named "Gramma"

Gramma was diabetic, and she had to buy insulin & syringes from the pharmacy.

Thrifty Drugs used to be famous for their sloooooooow lines..long ones too.

One day I was with her picking up the meds & we were talking about the futility of it all and at one point she said "I just wonder if I am helping or hurting Gramma..she's so old..maybe the kindest thing would be to stop giving her the insulin, and just let her die"

You can imagine what happened next :rofl:

One lady in line was ready to call the police on her :rofl:

[kiva]

204. I love it, 'should we just let gramma die?'

Thanks for the laugh SoCal. :rofl:

[Kievan Rus]

194. War on Drugs = Vietnam