Chirac: Bush Said Invasion Of Iraq Was Biblical Mission To Stop Armageddon!

[BlooInBloo]

Oh. My. Gawd.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5

A French Revelation, or The Burning Bush
JAMES A. HAUGHT

Incredibly, President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible’s satanic agents of the Apocalypse.

Honest. This isn’t a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.

Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their “common faith” (Christianity) and told him: “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East…. The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”

This bizarre episode occurred while the White House was assembling its “coalition of the willing” to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush’s call and “wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs.”

h/t http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/05/chirac-bush-said-invasion-of-iraq-was-biblical-mission-to-stop-armageddon/


EDIT: Forgot direct linky.

[malaise]

1. Never forget Bush said publicly that he was on a Crusade

No surprise here - just more proof of total and complete ignorance.

[Chemisse]

2. Holy shit!

I guess we all suspected something like this, but to see him actually spout that fanatical crap on the worldwide stage, it's just scary that we had a president like that.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. I'm dubious -

the idea of Fuckface knowing the names of Gog and Magog is hard to believe.

He's just not that literate......................

[Fumesucker]

9. It was a phone call..

bushie was working from cue cards..

Very simple ones.

[peekaloo]

11. His handlers explained it to him as the "Pete and Repete" of the bible.

[Voice for Peace]

30. hahahaha pete & repeat

[tocqueville]

20. it seems to be accurate, indepedently confirmed

http://www.thoughtsonmyday.com/tag/thomas-romer/

the Elysee tried to decrypt "Gog and Magog" so they contacted a Professor in Theology at Lausanne University who published the story in the University Paper.

"The story of the conversation emerged only because the Elyse Palace, baffled by Bush’s words, sought advice from Thomas Romer, a professor of theology at the University of Lausanne. Four years later, Romer gave an account in the September 2007 issue of the university’s review, Allez savoir. The article apparently went unnoticed, although it was referred to in a French newspaper.

The story has now been confirmed by Chirac himself in a new book, published in France in March, by journalist Jean Claude Maurice. Chirac is said to have been stupefied and disturbed by Bush’s invocation of Biblical prophesy to justify the war in Iraq and “wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs”."

here in French

http://livres.lexpress.fr/premierespages.asp/idC=14730/idR=6/idG=8?XTOR=EPR-342

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. Just when I didn't think he could

be any crazier, we find out - and thank you for the verification - that he was crazier than we thought.

You know, we're lucky he didn't blow up the whole damn world............................

[butterfly77]

55. I always thought he was this crazy..

and he is probably crazier than you really think he is..

[Tangerine LaBamba]

57. One of the most dificult times

in my clinical internship was trying to grasp the reality that someone was far too crazy ever to be able to be understood. It just always seemed that somehow, somehow there was a way to get a purchase on that menacing slope of the patient's reality, even as I knew, intellectually, that it was impossible.

Same thing with Fuckface..........................

[surrealAmerican]

79. Just what I was thinking, Tangerine ...

... were lucky to have survived two terms of bush.

[malaise]

26. Pat Robertson must have told him

Fuckface was very gullible.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

32. I agree -

he was, as someone pointed out here, probably reading from cue cards.

Sis, you realize how close we must have been to total Christian meltdown? I wonder what kept Fuckface from nuking Iraq?

[malaise]

38. I think we were saved by the Coalition of the

Unwilling - France and Germany did us all a massive favor.

They couldn't build that massive white 'elephant' - the embassy if they nuked the place.

[Brother Buzz]

82. Karen Hughes was the Christian voice whispering in Commander Bunnypants' ear

[Ikonoklast]

68. Chirac misheard him, Dumbya was eating a pretzel while talking to him

and started choking on it.

"Lemme esplain sumpin' to ya, Jackie, what's happenin' there is...gog...goggog...ack...magog...irk...blecchhh!"

[Uzybone]

4. Gog and Magog!!

we had an insane president for 8 years y'all.

[JuniperLea]

5. The disconnect never ceases to amaze me...

That he was a president is beyond embarrassing.

This is one of the questions that really pissed off the (Fundy) church elders when I was a kid: If these forces for good and evil are so powerful, and the story has already been written, why do they need us to do anything at all? Can't they handle this themselves?

[Hekate]

6. Such an embarrassment to the human race. Never forget: his enablers have not gone away. nt

[opihimoimoi]

7. GOP = Party of DeLusion and Fantasy...

[csziggy]

8. That tracks back to a longer article at "Free Inquiry"

With more information on how to verify it and track it back to Chirac:

A French Revelation, or The Burning Bush

<SNIP>

After the 2003 call, the puzzled French leader didn’t comply with Bush’s request. Instead, his staff asked Thomas Romer, a theologian at the University of Lausanne, to analyze the weird appeal. Dr. Romer explained that the Old Testament book of Ezekiel contains two chapters (38 and 39) in which God rages against Gog and Magog, sinister and mysterious forces menacing Israel. Jehovah vows to smite them savagely, to “turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws,” and slaughter them ruthlessly. In the New Testament, the mystical book of Revelation envisions Gog and Magog gathering nations for battle, “and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

In 2007, Dr. Romer recounted Bush’s strange behavior in Lausanne University’s review, Allez Savoir. A French-language Swiss newspaper, Le Matin Dimanche, printed a sarcastic account titled: “When President George W. Bush Saw the Prophesies of the Bible Coming to Pass.” France’s La Liberte likewise spoofed it under the headline “A Small Scoop on Bush, Chirac, God, Gog and Magog.” But other news media missed the amazing report.

Subsequently, ex-President Chirac confirmed the nutty event in a long interview with French journalist Jean-Claude Maurice, who tells the tale in his new book, Si Vous le Répétez, Je Démentirai (If You Repeat it, I Will Deny), released in March by the publisher Plon.

Oddly, mainstream media are ignoring this alarming revelation that Bush may have been half-cracked when he started his Iraq war. My own paper, The Charleston Gazette in West Virginia, is the only U.S. newspaper to report it so far. Canada’s Toronto Star recounted the story, calling it a “stranger-than-fiction disclosure … which suggests that apocalyptic fervor may have held sway within the walls of the White House.” Fortunately, online commentary sites are spreading the news, filling the press void.

<SNIP>

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5

I've highlighted the various sources that this information has been mentioned previously, if anyone wants to hunt them down.

[Better Today]

10. I wonder (yes, I'm doing a lot of that today) if a few of us atheists could

sue Bush then for crossing the line that is supposed to exist between religion and Federal resources. Probably stupid idea, but though I already have heard similar, it irritates me no end every time I hear/read it again.

[JuniperLea]

12. In a perfect world, there would be a way...

Not a stupid idea at all! I'm a recovering Fundy, now agnostic, and I'm all for something like this too.

[Chemisse]

19. Clearly he violated the division of church and state in so many ways

But if we can't prosecute torturers, we surely won't be able to do anything about him.

[Better Today]

21. I beg to differ. Torture isn't per se in the constitution, its more akin to

agreements and such. Church and state is original Constitutional stuff. I think it might be just enough different to fly.

[Chemisse]

41. I would weep with gratitude if he was held to account for this

How in hell do we expect to prevent this kind of thing in the future if we don't acknowledge what we just went through as a country?

[Better Today]

45. Exactly.

[Mojambo]

13. This guy was in there for 8 fucking years... We're all incredibly lucky to still be alive. n/t

[NoSheep]

46. Some aren't.

[proud patriot]

14. It's a wonder the earth survived bushco

still astounds me

[Aragorn]

15. why now?

Is it good ol' boy politics that kept this story out of sight for a few years? If the Prez of Iran says another country should help invade Israel would it be in the (US) press? In the Iranian press?

BTW this is not technically insane as religious delusional ideation is specifically excluded from diagnostic criteria.

So it's just typical religious zealotry. Call it what it is y'all.

[Chemisse]

22. So those guys on the street corners hollering about the end being near

are not insane under the diagnostic criteria.

I think the definition should be broadened. These religious fanatics, like those who back killing abortion doctors, are sick and scary.

[Chemisse]

16. I guess we are lucky we survived the 8 years

He could have decided it was time for Armageddon and set off a few nukes.

I wonder if Cheney played him using that Biblical stuff. He would have been so easy to manipulate.

[elehhhhna]

17. I smell horse$h!t. Yeah, tell us yeeeears later.

Don't tell me -- he's written a book

[Better Today]

24. I don't doubt he said it, but I am suspicious of Cherac for just now mentioning it

I would be curious as to his motivation for not mentioning it till now, as well as his motivation for mentioning it now.

[tocqueville]

31. not mentioning it because

1) you don't want to embarass an ally and attacking Bush at that time had been counterproductive and only given fuel to more anti-French sentiment in the US
2) today the war is over, somebody else in charge and it's history

[Tangerine LaBamba]

33. Exactly -

there is a protocol, and Chirac observed it properly.......

[Better Today]

36. Perhaps, but isn't there a time when good sense should overrule protocol?

I'm just going to guess that like so many leaders, Chirac's phone calls were taped. All he needed to do was play the tape, I think it would've chilled many, and remember this was before the war started, if I read correctly. There were millions world wide protesting US starting a war with Iraq. Chirac could've been a hero if he had released the tape and only true chickenhawks would've hated him or the French for it.

[tocqueville]

40. in your sane world yes

but not in the post 9/11 world of the US 2003. Chirac with whatever proofs wouldn't have been believed in the US then. It would have been perceived as an attempt to destabilize the US.

[Better Today]

44. So you're saying that all us war protesters were just figments, we didn't

need nor could we have used some factual proof to back it up? You're right I live in a sane world, but I participated with thousands others who were also sane and heard/read about/saw millions more who would have given him great credit. But I guess since the MSM would've painted him a a problem and such, sort of like the anti-war protests were barely covered or covered with sarcasm. . . .

Still it does seem to me that devil be damned, there's a time to take the risk, and then was that time.

[tocqueville]

48. Face it, at that time there were two voices...Randi Rhodes and Cindy Sheehan

it doesn't take away anything of what the anti-war movement did. It wouldn't have made any difference what Chirac said or not. Putting his veto was the action...
Then letting the cruel reality (casualties, insurgents, Abu-Grahib etc...) show its face was far more efficient. France kept a conciliatory tone after the veto, and was still swiftboated (oil for food etc...). If Americans were themsdelves unable to stop the war, France couldn't do it for them. The majority of Americans at that time were unable to be lectured by France, not even today. It would have made things only worse.

[Better Today]

60. "lectured by France" I agree, would'nt have gone over, but expose Bush would've. IMO

[LeftishBrit]

70. Mmmm, not sure here that it would have made much difference

I think a lot of people were aware that this was his attitude, even if we didn't expect him to say it quite so bluntly. There was huge opposition to the war in most places, not that our leaders took much notice. I actually think some people, including Tony Blair, were more inclined to go along with Bush just *because* of his obvious religious mission about it - even though the late Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the World Council of Churches all condemned the war.

The one thing that could have made a difference might have been an earlier exposure of the lies about the WMDs.

Anyway, it's a good thing that Chirac and several other leaders had the sense not to be among the 'Willing'. I just wish Blair had followed their example.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. In agreement with you

I'm in agreement with you as a person who made a POINT of going to France 5 years on vacation (2003-2008) just to snub my nose at the 'people in charge' by standing with the people that stood with me.

[elehhhhna]

49. sure the leader of the free world is batsh!+ crazy and starting WAR

but you don't embarrass him? COME ON, people.

[tocqueville]

54. What were we supposed to do ? revive Lafayette ?

obviously diplomacy isn't the American strong side, may it sometimes come from the left. One doesn't preach for deaf ears. Stating that Bush was a religious nutjob hadn't convinced anybody but probably increased his support instead. It was far more intelligent to oppose a NATO intervention as France and Germany did. When there is an overwhelming risk to embarass an allied NATION, and create thus lasting anger, by embarassing the leader, you abstain. Besides Bush was excellent at embarassing himself, he didn't need our help.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Certainly blaming France for what bush did is not the way to go.

[The Gunslinger]

63. I have to agree

He could have stopped a war.

[tocqueville]

65. HOLY BATSHIT, I'M GETTING ANGRY

Why didn't YOU stop the war by taking to the streets in millions with your "pitchforks" ???? instead of whining on the net ? The people of Iran has more guts than you have.
It's YOUR fucking war.

Do you really think for a minute that a Chirac statement "Sorry Americans, your President is a religious nutjob" had changed anything ? In the MOST religious country in the Western world ? More fucking religious than fucking Poland ? or even Papal Italy ?

He did what he had to do, keep out of the madness and show the Muslim world that not ALL Westerners were after their skin. He avoided a clash of civilisations and will be remembered for that.

Why do you always expect OTHERS to do your Revolutions for you ?

end or rant

[The Gunslinger]

83. Just a little hint..........

European heads of state like Chirac have just a little bit more power than me. You see he actually talked to Bush and had those words been made public at the time, it might have changed sentiment about the war. I can hold all the signs I want, (and how the hell do you assume that I didn't) but It wouldn't have the same power to stop a war then publicly letting the world know what a nut job Bush is.

[LeftishBrit]

72. I don't think he could have, really.

In 'Evil Secular Europe' we were mostly pretty aware already that Bush was on a Bible mission in the Middle East, or at least, that he and some of his cohorts were prepared to use the Bible as an excuse. We were also aware that Bush was a lunatic. I don't think knowing about these particular words would have changed much; they just fit in with what we already knew about Bush.

All that Chirac, and others such as Schroeder, could do was to refuse to co-operate. If they had co-operated, we might be even closer to Armageddon.

[fascisthunter]

18. a psychopath

[Jazzgirl]

23. I will have to look for it but he told Mubarak the something similar.

He told a few people but I do remember Hosni Mubarak talking about Bush saying something about a mission from God or something to him. I'll have to look for it. Bizarre.

[tocqueville]

27. Chirac's BIBLICAL prophecy here

excerpt from Chirac's book

«Vous verrez: ils vont mener une guerre de Pandore, la gagner rapidement, mais le plus dur alors commencera. Sunnites et chiites vont se déchirer. Après l'invasion, une guerre civile fera plus de victimes civiles que les combats de la guerre éclair. Al-Qaeda trouvera en Irak un terrain de manoeuvre qui lui est jusqu'ici interdit. Dans un an, il faudra envoyer des renforts. Et dans trois ans, quand 3 000 GI seront morts, ils n'auront le choix qu'entre le retrait et l'envoi de nouvelles troupes.»

http://livres.lexpress.fr/premierespages.asp?idC=14730&idTC=13&idR=6&lettre=&idP=2&url=&idG=

...You'll see, they will wage a Pandora's war, win quickly, but the hardest will then begin. Sunnis and Shiites are going to tear apart. After the invasion, civil war will cause more civilian casualties than the fighting in the blitzkrieg. Al-Qaeda will find in Iraq a field of maneuver which was so far prohibited. In one year, they will send reinforcements. And in three years, when 3 000 GIs will be dead, they will have a choice between withdrawal or sending new troops...

Maybe the US should turn towards French prophets...

[malaise]

28. Well we know who was accurate

We always knew who was right on Iraq. Freedom fries my ass.

[BlueMTexpat]

43. Once we entered WWI, one phrase was "freedom sauerkraut" to be used as

a pejorative against those of German birth, even those who had been born in the US and who certainly were not aiding and abetting the Kaiser in any way.
At least in WWI, we were actually at war with Germany. Under BushCo, the Rethugs could not wait to trot out their resolution on "Freedom fries" to "demean" the French (who laughed their AO all the while because "French fries" was always an American-given name in any event) ... who were right all along in the case of Iraq.
Those who do not learn ... or remember ... the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[malaise]

47. Yep

Are you listening to Scahill on KO?
This begs for a serious investigation - Prince was selling illegal weapons in Iraq.

[BlooInBloo]

29. Wow.

[LeftishBrit]

34. What a lunatic.

[tocqueville]

37. confirmed again by an Israeli source

http://vudejerusalem.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2009/02/27/bush-chirac-gog-et-magog-et-la-guerre-en-irak.html

in French sorry

according to the blog, Bush did it twice (second time in a press conference, reference to Gog and Magog, which could be easily tracable)

[elehhhhna]

58. Gog & McGog are the twins nicknames, silly.

[tocqueville]

61. actually they are Aussies

Gog and Magog statues at Gaunt's clock in the Royal Arcade, Melbourne, Australia - erected 1892

[JustAnotherGen]

39. Go Chirac!

I love that guy!

I wonder if he went back and read books on Algiers just to refresh his memory on what a disgraceful 'war' that was. I'm a total Francophile, and I'm looking to buy property there. They aren't the 'bad baddy monsters' Bush made them out to be - and especially Chirac. On the note of Chirac - he lived and worked (as a Soda Jerk :-) ) in the US. So he knows our language well - gets the 'lingo'. He must have been completely boggled by that CRAZY TALK!!!!!!!

[SleeplessInAlabama]

42. Ummm... I thought France was part of the Axis of Europe. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Ummmm they are

But you need to read a book. Or use the google.

Google French Algerian war.

Or better yet: France's Secret War.


So - uh - yeah -ummmmmmmm. You weren't aware of the boondoggle of the French/Algerian War? Why do you think the enmity, the 'pied noir' etc etc today? :-)

[SleeplessInAlabama]

59. Ummmmm it was just a Bushism about you wanting to buy property there n/t

[tocqueville]

62. actually Chirac served in Algeria

twice

first time 56-57 (18 months) first as private but becomes rapidly a lieutnant (he had the formal qualification from his officer school) and saw fire several times with is platoon of 32 men. He voluntereed (with his background he could have had a nice armchair job somewhere, the staff wanted him to Berlin since he speaks Russian). He was lightly wounded to his face.

then 59-60 as a civil servant, sent by De Gaulle (the situation was still unstable, but mostly because of rogue elements in the French Army).

Chirac knows everything about the Algerian war and why it turned ugly the way it did. He was for the independance and today is extremely popular in Algeria. In a way he is a bit like Kerry.

Besides being a "soda jerk" he has a diploma of Harvard's Summer Shool 1952.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

84. It was a terrible war

A lot lives were destroyed. I can certainly understand the Algerian desire for independence. But there were about 1.3 million Europeans who had lived in Algeria for generations. And the native population wouldn't tolerate them living there any longer. I knew many Pieds Noirs when I lived in Marseille after the war and I found them to be decent people on the whole. A number of them had intermarried with Algerians and had children of mixed blood, like my next-door neighbors.

[Rocknrule]

51. Holy shit

Scariest thing I've read in months

Please tell me this isn't serious

[BlooInBloo]

53. Multiple confirmations upthread. I wish there weren't.

:(

[TexasObserver]

52. Recommend

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. Anybody recall where else Bush tried to take this message?

Anyone? How about to the Pope? Remember Bush's first meeting with the Pope? Bush must have tried to appeal to their "common faith."

Good lord. Can Bush really be such a simpleton? From frat boy to thinking he could rule the world by manipulating people's religious beliefs?

[cbdo2007]

66. Um...yep. I've been saying this for years...it's right there in the Bible.

"The final battle will take place in (don't remember) that is currently in Iraq."

I took it a step further when I outlined this to friends and family a few years ago, because I actually think Bush thinks *he* is Jesus and it was up to him to fight the final battle.

[rd_kent]

67. Why would a fundie want to stop it?

"The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”

If it is gods will why would he want to stop it?

[alfredo]

69. No wonder Chirac didn't want to join in. bush is fucking nuts.

[Echo In Light]

71. Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move.

It was an e-mail we weren't meant to see. Not for our eyes were the notes that showed White House staffers taking two-hour meetings with Christian fundamentalists, where they passed off bogus social science on gay marriage as if it were holy writ and issued fiery warnings that "the Presidents Administration and current Government is engaged in cultural, economical, and social struggle on every level"—this to a group whose representative in Israel believed herself to have been attacked by witchcraft unleashed by proximity to a volume of Harry Potter. Most of all, apparently, we're not supposed to know the National Security Council's top Middle East aide consults with apocalyptic Christians eager to ensure American policy on Israel conforms with their sectarian doomsday scenarios.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-05-11/news/the-jesus-landing-pad/

[redqueen]

75. I remember that...

they didn't want to stop Armageddon... they wanted to start it... to get to the rapture part. Fucking loonies.

[Echo In Light]

76. Yet I recall not so long ago when many Dems would hiss "conspiracy theory" if this was mentioned

[dysfunctional press]

73. chirac SHOULD have made that call VERY public.

if there is a tape of it it NEEDS to be released for ALL the world to hear.

[Daylight]

74. self delete

[Are_grits_groceries]

77. Actually, I believe he was shining Chirac.

I have no doubt that he said he wanted to stop the "Apocalypse." However, Bush has been an endtimer for years. He was his father's emissary to the evangelicals during 41's term. Bush got to know the Rapturites quite well. He maintained contact with them while in the WH. He took their advice seriously.

Neocons had their game, and the oil companies had their game. However, Bush was "guided by a higher power." He wanted to start the ball rolling on the Apocalypse. Part of the reason that these people don't give a shit about the environment or other things is because they truly believe the Earth will cease to exist soon.

The Israelis love to take advantage of the endtimers, and the endtimers send money to the settlements. The theology parts when you realize that in the end, Jews have to convert or they are gone. Everybody is doubling down on Their God.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all meet at the Temple Mount. Right now "The Dome of the Rock" occupies the top as an Islamic shrine. However, the Third Temple must be built on the Temple Mount in order to fulfill prophecies in Judaism.

Location, location, location.

(I have been following this mess for years. I wish I had found DU a lot earlier. Bush scared the shit out of me because he really believed he was God's emissary.)

[Better Today]

78. I think you mis-read. It sounds more like Bush is saying, "Hey let's start the

Apocalypse", not that he was trying to stop it. I agree with your comment, that Bush was/is an endtimer, but I think what I read Bush as being quoted as saying, is in perfect alignment with wanting to begin the process.

[Are_grits_groceries]

80. You're right.

I skimmed. It's not a surprise to me.

[Better Today]

85. Ah, cool. I try to always add "I think" just in case it was me that didn't get it.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

81. This is credible - Bush said the same thing at the Sharm-el-Sheikh summit

Previous witnesses have reported Bush's statements about invading Iraq as the fulfillment of a mission from God.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa