Admin/Mods- Is it against the rules to call the cops pigs?

[nosmokes]

thanks for your help!:hi:

[NightWatcher]

1. if it walks like a ....if it talks like a.......then it's a ........

[timeforpeace]

27. Try not to do it when you've already called them to help you with something.

[proud patriot]

2. here's the link to the detailed rules

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

:hi:

any further questions can be addressed to Admin at
[e-mail]

[nosmokes]

5. Thanks for the linkage!

[dorkulon]

3. No, but it might get you arrested for disorderly conduct. nt

[mkultra]

35. only if your black

[bemildred]

4. We have free speech here, it's perfectly Ok to call anyone pigs. nt

[elocs]

7. No, we do not have free speech here. You cannot say anything you like.

This is a privately owned message board and so it has it own rules. If there were truly free speech, then nobody would ever be tombstoned here at DU.

[bemildred]

8. Well, true, you can't call other posters pigs.

But anyone else, or even other posters not named directly, it's OK. I see it all the time.

And actually, I approve of that rule.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

37. No, it's not

I can think of numerous situations where calling a number of different groups "pigs" will get you tombstoned.

[bemildred]

54. Well, that's true, so not just anyone.

So no ethnic groups or minorities or gender preferences can be called pigs here.

So I'll take it back. Nobody should be called pigs here, even poorly behaved cops, it debases the level of discussion. Thank you for setting me straight.

[Forkboy]

6. Oh sure, appeal to the Man.

:hide:

[vadawg]

9. not that it bothers me, but i guess we are fair game

i get called a lot worse every day and you know what, i get paid a lot to put up with it. It is interesting though that calling any other group of people derogatory names would get you in trouble here but i guess some animals are more equal than others.

[Forkboy]

12. What other groups? We savage them all.

I've even seen anti-kitteh posts here.

[Adelante]

13. I don't like it

I don't mind a specific cop who earns the word getting it, but as a general smear of the whole group it stinks of ignorance just like any other prejudice.

[Deja Q]

15. Seconded. The real pigs are very rarely the cops...

[MADem]

16. If you see stuff you don't like, do the old "engage on the merits" routine.

"Nice broad brush" or words to that effect....

[-..__...]

23. Besides...

it's so 60's chic.

If anyone feels that oppressed or negative towards "the man"/law enforcement... at least use a term more modern equivalent...
like "JBT's" (Jack Booted Thugs).

But yeah... smearing a collective group as "pigs"/"JBT's" is plain ignorant.

[MADem]

14. If the shoe does not fit you, don't wear it.

I'm not a babykiller, no matter how much the anti-military crowd want to paint anyone who ever wore a uniform in that fashion.

You should read the rules, it will clear things up for you.

The prohibitions center mostly around "personal insult," and you'd also better not threaten to kill or harm anyone, with a particular emphasis on public figures.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

11. There's nothing in the rules of that nature. Calling you, personally, a pig? That's against the

rules.

If you happen to be an officer of the law, and someone calls cops pigs (As in "I hate those fucking head-cracking pigs!!!" for example), that's not a "personal" insult, though. It's only personal if it's aimed right at you ("You are a lousy pig, in your lousy pig-police uniform!" for example) or right at another police person posting here.

People call priests child molesters, and Blue Dogs assholes, and they even direct invective at the President and the SECSTATE on an off-n-on basis.

The context matters.

[HardWorkingDem]

17. As I've typed before - the practice of bashing "all" because of some...

is something people get labeled with all sorts of negative "isms" but for some groups here, it seems to be okay to practice something that liberals seem to always preach against.

If that's not clear enough - why is it okay to call all of one group "pigs" because of an occupation, where if someone here used the same sort of practice against those of different races, gender, religion or sexual orientation, then it most likely lead to an automatic banning of that poster.

Isn't much better to single a person out for their singular behavior or character, than to paint the entire group?

[EFerrari]

20. The problem with that and cop culture is that they leap up to defend

each other no matter how bad the behavior is. That doesn't really make them loyal as much as it makes them complicit.

There are certainly some great people in law enforcement but cop culture in this country is dysfunctional.

[pipi_k]

21. No more dysfunctional than

a group of teachers standing up to defend each other...

or a group of high school students

or doctors

lawyers

auto workers

DU members defending each other against Republicans/trolls

family members


What makes cops defending each other so special?

[EFerrari]

25. If you think about in terms of power, none of those groups have as much

not even doctors. So, yes, it is different to support someone who has killed another or separated them from their rights than it is to stick up for a fellow teacher who taught a controversial book. LEOs have more power and are held to a higher stand in theory.

The other problem is, all their infractions and crimes are self reported by their departments to the Justice Department. That makes them self-policing and obviously, that isn't working.

[HardWorkingDem]

30. What to see a wake up call?

Go to the theweeklyvice.com and look under the teach tab at all the teachers in America that have been caught sleeping with students.


Then come back and suggest other groups don't protect their own as much as cops.


That website opened my eyes and scares the crap out of me.

[EFerrari]

41. That's why the professions that interact with vulnerable people

need more attention. And pretty much by definition, you know the rest.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. I would certainly never bash teachers.......

....but while they don't wield as much power as cops, within the confines of a school, a bad one on a power trip can make a student's life hell.

[EFerrari]

40. That's true enough. My orchestra teacher was a practicing alcoholic

and he used to throw those big black music stands. I'm surprised he never clocked a kid. We hated his hour. ALL of us. Years later, I saw him coming out of an AA meeting, so at least he didn't drink himself to death.

[HardWorkingDem]

28. Show me where...

cops who deserve scorn due to truly bad behavior are defended.

Has anyone stood up to defend the one Boston cop who made the disgusting banana eating comments the other day? Did any cop stand up and defend Volpe, the cop who sodomized Louima with a plunger?

Cop culture has its problems, I'll agree, but so do many other "cultures".....

One time I had a relative who almost died from an incompetent doctor and his attorney told him to forget his malpractice suit because all the medical personnel in the operating room would not go on the record. This was even after one of them told my relative "off" the record what happened was malpractice.

So does this mean all medical personnel are "pigs"?

[EFerrari]

29. You're right about that. Other professions have their own problems,

and the best example may well be the medical profession.

And I don't favor name calling, no. It just erodes a relationship that we should be building.

[nosmokes]

43. Maybe because none of the other things you mentioned gives one the

right to deprive others of theirs w/the overwhelming presumption they're doing the correct thing.Sure, we're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but any poor schmuck that has tried to fight a moving violation knows the Judge takes the pig's word with more credence than the civilian's. Unless you have witness depositions and photos and a mountain of evidence to prove the pig wrong you're dead and stinkin at the startin gate.

[vadawg]

44. usually the mutt sho is trying to convince the judge hes innocent of the violation

does not have a clue what they are talking about, and the judge usually understands what the cop is saying a lot better than the mutt.

[nosmokes]

48. maybe, but I've been a witness 3x in 2 different jurisdictions in situations

like i described and the pig in each case (3 differnt ppl) lied to make his/her case better. I have never been treated with simple basic courtesy and respect by the pigs, even in a neutral setting.To protect and serve- themelves, maybe, but not me or any other working class person i know, and that's what i find criminal.

[vadawg]

49. why should i have to respect a mutt like you, its not like you ever give me respect

you see how this works, every post you do is all about pigs and then you wonder why the popo react to your negativity, i cant believe that you dont see that mayby the problem is you, i can pretty much tell you that the guy i have a problem with is going to be a problem child with every other officer in the world...

[nosmokes]

53. I'm not an idiot.f2f y'all are are yes, sir very much sir, three bags full sir.

I can guarantee you the problem ain't me, but since i used to faintly resemble biker trash and rode milwaukee iron every fuckin' punk w/a badge just knew I had to be a major criminal,but there ain't a violent offense on my record. See, you're already blindly stoking the defense of the blue line w/o any of the relevant facts, practically insinuating that putting on the badge confers some mystical intuition or power that allows you and your fellows to read minds or see the future. I call BULLSHIT.

[HardWorkingDem]

47. There is an old saying....

police deal with ten percent of the population 90 percent of the time.....

there is another saying (and many versions of it as well) that goes something like there are no saints in hell or swans in the sewer.....


lastly, pick up a book called Sense and Non-Sense About Crime. It's a good book that is kind of old, but explains the "court room work group." It succinctly details how courts do work and once a cop blows his/her reputation in front of a judge, then that's it. But in contrast to that, imagine that the majority of people who appear before a judge come in wearing torn jeans, shorts, t-shirts and in other unkempt ways. In other words, show utter disrespect for a court room. So when you think of this, just what kind of signal do you think that sends to a judge?

There are too many factors involved to simply describe it away by labeling someone a name.


Lastly, go back and re-read your reply and take out all the word "pig" and throw in woman, gay, black, Jew or other identifiers and see the context. That illustrates my point.

[LanternWaste]

55. Not in my case...

Not in my case. I was simply polite and civil to the judge when I stated my case, and all three citations went up in smoke in front of the officer's ever-reddening face.

I imagine had I called the officer a "pig", and the judge, "the man" in court, or had I been guilty things may have gone differently. But then again, we all advertise our class and our dignity in different ways...

[DCKit]

18. Mmmmm, pizza with bacon. Or because of it.

Just kidding.

[LeftyMom]

19. Please don't call cops pigs. Pigs are really cool animals.

They don't deserve to be compared with cops. I <3 pigs.

[TexasObserver]

22. Yes, but it's not OK to start a thread to admins about some personal question.

hope that helps

[pipi_k]

24. It's sort of sad, really

that people will generalize like that and bash a whole group because of the actions of a few.

As the wife of a retired cop, I suppose I should be highly incensed. But all I can feel is pity.

The reason Mr Pip had to retire was because of an injury to his legs in the line of duty. Chasing a suspect across a flat roof in the wintertime...slipping on the ice and going over the side. Many operations, a lot of pain, and a long recovery time. Maybe the guy robbed someone...maybe he raped someone...

Maybe the person he committed a crime against called all cops "pigs".

Cops are out there risking their lives every day for everyone...even for the people who call them "pigs".


It's OK if people want to call cops "pigs". I just suggest that the people who think they're such pigs remember that if they ever find themselves needing one of those "pigs". Maybe the corner bartender can come out and investigate a crime. Maybe the guy who sells used cars on the other side of town can patrol the streets.

By golly, don't we all feel safer now...

[EFerrari]

26. I understand you being offended and I probably would be, too.

And it still has to be asked, why is the level of animosity so high? I read the other night that since the mid 80s, there have been multiple studies that show 40% of the cops in the study have been violent in their own home in the last year. That means, if you're a woman calling for help with an abuser, you have a 2 in 5 chance of getting one responding to your call.

What's that about? If so many cops are having that much trouble with impulse control or judgement, what we're doing isn't working.

We need some kind of reform here, imo. It doesn't help anything to name call but by the same token, it doesn't help much to deny it, either.

[HardWorkingDem]

31. Bad statistics.....

What is that saying about statistics? You can make them show anything?

Did you think when you read that 40 percent that maybe those in the study have committed multiple acts, which would create an issue of methodology? Not only that, what is the exact definition of a "violent" act in their home in the last year? Spanking a child? Yelling?

[EFerrari]

33. More than one study and by different folks, iirc. n/t

[HardWorkingDem]

36. If you can locate one of them...

I'd like to read it because more times than not, many of these studies are flawed in their methodology for a number of reasons.

[EFerrari]

38. I PM'd you a link to a short article that cites two of them.

[HardWorkingDem]

42. Okay, thank you...

thanks

[Horse with no Name]

32. Why would it be?

Seriously?:wtf:
First Amendment?

[nini]

34. why should it be?

?

[Skittles]

45. I would not like seeing that

not at all

[vadawg]

46. on a side note, can we call all hippies smelly, may as well broad brush everybody

[armyowalgreens]

50. I'm a hippy college student and even I am not that big of an asshole...

I don't call cops pigs. Only douche bags and shit heads call cops pigs.

[wuvuj]

51. Is ahole OK?

...

[armyowalgreens]

52. Nope. Asshole is the only way.