Lucia Whelan is LIVE ON TV.

[MADem]

She is giving a press conference.

She just said that the ONLY exchange she had with Crowley was

LW: I am the 911 caller.

JC: Stay right there.

Doesn't sound like there's any discussion of black men OR backpacks in that exchange. She also reiterated that she never mentioned race, ever, either in the call or to anyone at the scene.

Uh oh. Crowley lied. Wonder how he'll explain THAT away over beers.

[glowing]

1. ANd she usurped the President's comments on Healthcare.

[MADem]

4. It was important that she said what she said, BEFORE "beerville."

I have said that she needs to be at beerville, too, so JC can look her in the eye. He lied. It's pretty clear that he lied, too.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

2. Is that all you got out of it?

What about the accusations of racism, threats and the press tracking down her mother.

I couldn't believe some of the vile shit I read here and on some blogs about this poor woman.

[MADem]

3. Why must you be confrontational? Can't you help it?

No, that is not "all I got out of it."

That is, however, the "money quote." And if you don't think so, I'll have what you are smoking, because you're living in dreamland, which sounds like a fun place to hang.

Because I take time to note the key piece of information (that's the clip the news is rerunning) doesn't mean that's "all" I got out of it.

You have two choices: You can chime in and amplify, with additional material to add to the discussion, or you can be a finger-wagging scold and denigrate my effort to disseminate information. Your choice.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

6. We already knew that. She released statements. Why is that news to you?

The "money quote" is she was in fear and being harassed - so much that she felt she had to make a statement.

Your "money quote" was in response to some douche-bag reporter's question.

The poor woman has been through hell for doing the right thing. But you and the reporter want to focus on the pissing match between Gates and Crowley.

[MADem]

9. She was on my television set LIVE when I wrote that post. We're not talking about "statements"

here, we're talking about a LIVE broadcast, which, if you read the OP, you'd realize.

But thanks for answering my question--you ARE being confrontational.

You just cannot help it.

Pssst--this isn't an "Either - Or" excercise, you know (or maybe you don't). You had a choice of adding to the discussion, but you instead chose to behave antisocially and try to shut it down with faux complaints.

Pssst--if it wasn't the "money quote" why is it the clip that is running in heavy rotation on my television, hmmmm? Apparently the media outlets don't agree with you. Awwww.

It's NOT NEWS that she feels beseiged. We've heard that well before this. What was unknown, and is now known, is the extent of the interaction between her and Crowley. Now we know that there was no talk of black men, no talk of backpacks. Two sentences: I made the 911 call/Stay right there. That's important.

Only someone wanting to distract from that (for example, a denigrator of Gates, or a defender of Crowley) would view that information in a different way and try to play the Wizard of Oz (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain) game.

But go on, continue to be obtuse, obstructive and binary while feigning sympathy. It's obvious what you're doing. It's how you roll.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. "if it wasn't the money quote why is it the clip that is running in heavy rotation on my television

LOL

You make my point.

[MADem]

13. No, I don't. But you "LOL" make mine. I see right where you're coming from.

And it's not a very nice place.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

14. Maybe you should take a look at yourself in the mirror.

In our "conversation" here on DU, you have called me:

Obtuse
finger-wagging scold
you're living in dreamland
confrontational
antisocial
obstructive
feigning sympathy
binary
a denigrator of Gates
defender of Crowley

What names did I call you?

And I'M the one coming from a "not very nice place"???

Really. There really isn't much left to do but laugh at you.

[MADem]

18. That's entirely accurate.

Those aren't "names." They're descriptions, accurate ones, and they are based entirely on your conduct.

Look, if you can't deal with the evidence of your OWN behavior, that's your issue. You have been obtuse and finger wagging, you jumped right in with a plain purpose to disrupt and confront, you are behaving antisocially (disrupting and confronting are antisocial behaviors) and it's quite plain where you're coming from and what your agenda is.

By your own words we can see what you are. So keep laughing--it'll make it easier to identify you from a distance.

[TiredOldMan]

5. Did Nothing Wrong

This woman did nothing wrong. She is an everyday person that saw two people (she didn't even state a race until asked) bust a home's front door in and she called the police. A bunch of loser's immediately called her a racist without knowing anything about what she did.

She did what any good neighbor would do and it is terrible that the media and a small group of lunatics have been tormenting her. Hopefully now it will stop.

[PatSeg]

8. I really feel sorry for her

I wonder if she'll be on the police department's shit list now, which could have repercussions if she ever needs the police in the future.

[timeforpeace]

27. It's not the police she is in fear of.

[PatSeg]

33. Yeah

I just saw an excerpt of her press conference. That really sucks.

[MADem]

10. She did something very right, actually. When she made the call, and when she had this press

conference. I think she's very brave.

FWIW, Gates issued a statement after he was released that he has NO ISSUE with her. He thinks she did a good thing. His issue has always been with Crowley's behavior. Looks like Lucia is backing his account up. Crowley lied about his conversations with HER, too.

[horseshoecrab]

15. She is very brave indeed

I agree MADem. This press conference was obviously hard for her to do. She should be applauded for her simple statement that she was trying to do the right thing.

The transcript of her call to 911 shows that she never mentioned "two black men" and her statement shows that she never spoke with Crowley to the extent that his official report states. She was extraordinarily fair in her assessment of the situation in her call to 911.

Even the transcript of the dispatchers call to cars near the scene, after the 911 call, did not include any mention of two black men. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/transcript_of_p.html

We can now understand what some have speculated; that Crowley made up the two black men with backpacks narrative, probably because he thought that it would help to justify his treatment and arrest of Prof. Gates.

I think it's a safe bet that Crowley had no idea of what was about to happen; No concept of how national this story would go.

One more thing: The cop who was said to be in the kitchen (in Crowley's report) with Gates and Crowley should come forward. That could be interesting.

In any case, Ms. Whalen was good to come forward. I could've done without her attorney spending most of her breath trying to paint Pres. Obama as part of the problem, but that's the price one pays for accepting an offer of a pro bono attorney sometimes.

I'm glad that Lucia Whalen had the opportunity to clear her name today. She is certainly no racist.



horseshoecrab

[Igel]

7. But now the list of lies Crowley told is shorter.

No longer is it false that he and Whalen spoke. Of course, I'm sure the defense is that the simple exchange isn't a "conversation", a legal parsing of words that violates the usual rules of English communication.

Key words to examine here: "with Crowley", "backpacks" and "black".

Of course, there's always the he-said/she-said problem of getting at what really happened. The assumption is that any non-police statement is gold, that somehow they're automatically liars. I'm quiet on attributing total accuracy to either party--I've been in both pairs of shoes and find the "I'm without error" models to both be a bit strait.

[MADem]

12. She never said she didn't speak to him though. She said she didn't have

a CONVERSATION with him. I don't think that exchange (I made the call/stay right there) could be classified as a conversation, any more than "Private JONES??????" "Here, Sir!!!" could be considered a "conversation."

So no, the list of lies isn't shorter. Barking an order isn't a conversation. Would you call "People, people, get back--stay behind the police tape! MOVE!!!!" as a "conversation?" I wouldn't. And that's got more words in it than "Stay right there."

She said through her attorneys that she "identified herself" to Crowley, but took issue with his account in his police report. No wonder she felt compelled to speak out. I'm glad she did it before the Beer Festival. As I have said elsewhere, I think Obama needs to have HER to the White House, too--she's part of this story. I'd like to see Crowley look her in the face and try to say she said "Two black men with backpacks."

Crowley should just apologize to Gates. It's pretty obvious he's not credible.

[redqueen]

40. Exactly. And he should also apologize to Obama,

and to the rest of the country, for making this situation into the 3-ring circus it is.

[seabeyond]

48. not only did he not take resposniblity (man up) the day of the event, but yes.... he needs

to take responsibility (man up) now.

[seabeyond]

51. btw, the night this first came out, per lawyer, she said didnt have conversation, but

someone gave me an article where it was more clearly stated that whalen had said to crowley, i made the call and he had said to her, wait here.

many were saying they they didnt talk. and in my posts that night (i made many) i always stated that she said, i made the call and he said wait here

so it was out there

[MADem]

55. I honestly don't regard that brief interaction as a conversation.

The dispatcher, IIRC asked her to identify herself to the cop. She did as she was told, he told her to stay put.

What we know is this--they didn't talk about chocolate colored gentlemen carrying backpacks!

I'm starting to believe that all that stuff, and maybe the "yo mama" nonsense, was invented by a cop who watched too much WB on his days off. Time may, or may not, tell.

[seabeyond]

58. of course it was conversation. and only reason i put it in those posts, ... is cause i knew now

defenders would use it as an excuse .... again.

it is so clear what lawyer meant, but people went after it

crowleys lie made all the report suspect. that is what happens when one blatantly fabricates a made up story. you can not believe anything they say

i teach my kids that. we all know that.

works here too

[MADem]

63. When I was in the military giving orders (stay right there) I didn't regard that as

conversation, really. They had a brief two sentence "interaction" --and he pretended it was a conversation where ideas were exchanged. But it wasn't. He made it all up.

[seabeyond]

65. was NOT conversation. lol lol. dontcha hate when your dont proof read

and leave out a significant word like NOT. lol.

i was cooking dinner and typing. burning the chops. sorry

no

it was not conversation

[MADem]

67. Mmmmmmmmmmmm .....chops!!!!!!!!! Understandable....nt

[seabeyond]

68. lol. n/t

[Enrique]

16. important point

it does clarify things a little regarding the discrepancies.

If Whalen had never spoken to Crowley and identified herself as the 911 caller, then it would be hard to see Crowley's account of their conversation as anything other than pure fabrication. Now there are other explanations possible, maybe it was a misunderstanding, maybe when he went back to her she was gone and he spoke to someone else, or maybe one of them is simply is remembering it wrong.

[seabeyond]

49. maybe he got busy with the arrest of gates, went back to police shop and wrote report

without a thought to anyone even considering this to be an issue.. i mean not a thought

[question everything]

17. This poor woman. I hope that Gates gets to visit with her

and to thank her for, essentially, keeping an eye on his house, especially since there were signs that someone did try to break in.

I know I want to have her as a neighbor instead of the more common "don't get involved." She behaved honorably. It was not her fault that events deteriorated.

[MADem]

19. She's not a neighbor.

She lives in Malden, which is some distance (twenty minutes, off peak) away. It's a bit of a commute at rush hour. She was simply passing by when she was approached by another woman who observed the activity of Gates and his driver--she said she wouldn't have even noticed had not the entire circumstance been called to her attention. I don't know where she was going, but there are the odd little storefronts not far from Gates' house, and it was the lunch hour.

[Spazito]

20. Dr. Gates has publicly addressed this...

"TR: What do you make of the suspicious neighbor who called the police with an erroneous report of “two black men” trying to enter your apartment? Was this neighborhood watch gone wrong?


HLG: I don’t know this person, and I’m sure that she thought she was doing the right thing. If I was on Martha’s Vineyard like I am now and someone was trying to break into my house, I would hope that someone called the police and that they would respond. But I would hope that the police wouldn’t arrest the first black man that they saw—especially after that person gives them an ID—and not rely on some trumped-up charge, which is what this man was doing."

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,3

[seabeyond]

21. seeing transcript 911 call she answered the questions i had. how could she not see luggage and

when they carried in why wouldn't she think they lived there

those are the only things i wondered about the witness. and wasnt a mattter of pointing finger or problem with her call

she did state luggage, not back pack. and she did suggest that maybe they might live there

works for me. everything seems to fit nice and tight

[Spazito]

22. Yes, everything she has stated happened has shown to be true...

I think Ms. Whalen is a woman of courage and principle. You could see the press conference was difficult for her but she KNEW it was important to get the FACTS out there.

[seabeyond]

23. i didnt watch. so i dont know all that was said.

but

if i were contradicting a police report, i would go thru a lawyer also. people have asked, and most all say it is to protect from the nuts going after her. i understand something was said in her conference about that. i dont know. as i said i didnt listen. but if i was going ot contradict a report a police wrote as an official document. can damn well bet i would use a lawyer and press conference a good idea

[MADem]

24. She has a lawyer. Her lawyer has been speaking for her up to now. NT

[Stephanie]

28. Thanks for posting that.

Everybody needs to see it. :hi:

[Spazito]

37. You're very welcome! I do think it is important to show that Dr. Gates...

acknowledged and validated Ms. Whalen's actions in making the call and he so on July 21, 2009, well before the any of the aftermath of Sgt. Crowley's gross misrepresentation of his interaction with Ms. Whalen.

[joeybee12]

25. Has it ever occurred to anyone that both she and the elderly woman who she called for

were both at the house and that Crowley could have initially spoken with her and then with the elderly woman, hence the confusion.

Oh wait, all cops are racist lying pigs we hate so much we can't see straight.

[seabeyond]

29. crowley said went to door and the woman said.... she is on sidewalk.

crowley says he did not talk to that woman. so what.... want us to assume he lied about that to to make his story work

[Ikonoklast]

30. Then he cannot be taken as a credible witness in a trial setting.

He is trained to remember what happened, specifically.

And if he can't make the distinction between a middle-aged female of Hispanic descent and an elderly white woman, he needs his eyes checked because he's blind.

[Bluerthanblue]

32. unless you are calling her a liar, then no, it isn't possible-

Crowley's own incident report cites a conversation with a woman he identifies as Lucia Whalen that never occurred.

Not all cops are lying racist pigs- it is those who supposedly are trying to support the police who make that claim most often, without sarcasm tags too.

:shrug:

Why do so many people feel the need to be so reactionary?

We could all do well to just chill abit.

[joeybee12]

35. Then we've got a he said/she said situation...

...but since everyone here knows everything about this, I guess they have a right to be reactionary....I've tried to avoid this, but most of what is being posted is crap, and I personally have a healty skepticism about cops.

[seabeyond]

36. so now we are attacking her cause you want her to be the liar as opposed to crowley. she says

she didnt talk to him

she says she saw luggage

she says she didnt see race

he says

he talked to whalen who said two black men wearing backpack

you really think it is a he said she said


they he said she said is in the event between crowley adn gates. but crowley is proven having lied, made up, fabricated so his whole report is mud

on edit to be perfectly clear. she did talk to him. said i am the one who called. he said, wait here

another edit to be more clear: her 911 call backs up everything she says. on transcript

[MADem]

42. He identified Lucia by NAME in his report, though.

There is no other name in his report.

So, you're saying he's sloppy, and he makes stuff up? Or he can't tell an old lady from a much younger woman? But that's not "lying?"

"I'm the one who made the call" is pretty clear. Dispatch had her name. Are you suggesting Crowley got confused and mistook another woman entirely for the one he spoke to before he went to the door?

I'd love to see the DASHCAM.

If Crowley can't tell one woman from another, he needs to find a new line of work. Policemen need to be able to tell people apart. That's pretty basic.

[timeforpeace]

26. She's very brave. I'm sure she fears for her life these days.

And not from the cops.

[Spazito]

31. Who is it you think is causing her to 'fear for her life?

Any one in particular? Any 'group' in particular?

I find your post stating this, without any rationale for why you think this, to be quite ....peculiar.

[csziggy]

34. In her live press conference Mrs. Whalen said she received threats

"The criticism at first was so painful I was frankly afraid to say anything. People called me racist. Some even said threatening things that made me fear for my safety," said Whalen.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jqwi0TSVtxC458-6AKpUuaTpH5FgD99O8M300

The OP said their were listening to the live feed.

[Spazito]

38. I couldn't find where the poster to whom I posted the questions...

says they were listening to the live feed. I do see the poster has since edited their original post to add empathy which was, imo, wise.

[timeforpeace]

39. It's understandable that some here may feel touchy about having accused her of that. They should.

[seabeyond]

46. it also didnt help that per crowley lies some people were pissed because of something she did NOT

say

[TahitiNut]

43. She probably feels like a pedestrian on a demolition derby track.

:shrug:

[mr_liberal]

41. I told people this yesterday in a thread.

Crowley didn't lie. Whalen was there at the scene and she very briefly did exchange words with him as he passed her going to the house. I knew Crowley wouldn't have lied about that.

That CNN report was misleading in that Wendy Murphy meant that the brief exchange of words Crowley and Whalen had at the scene she wouldn't consider a "conversation, and of course she never mentioned anything about "two black men". Crowley and the Cambridge police admit that though'; they admitted that the police report is wrong about that.

The part about "two black men" was just a mistake. Occam's razor people. Theres nothing... conspiratorial about it. As the chief said, a police report is just a summary of the events. I'm sure they try to get the details right, but they're not as careful about it compared to if they were a witness at trial, and not as careful when it's a minor case like this. I think Crowley knows she didn't say two black men, I mean its not that he remembers that incorrectly, he probably couldn't recall exactly what she said. But he had to write something there so he wrote that. He shouldn't have done that, but it wasn't done for some nefarious reason, its somthing that ordinarily would be considered a very minor error that only seems big because this case became a national news story.

People are too biased against Crowley and want to spin everything negative about him. They did that with Whalen and now realize they were wrong. They were wrong about Crowley lieing about Whalen being at the scene. And they're wrong that there was some nefarious reason for him writing two black men in his report. It was just a mistake, one that he admits to.

[redqueen]

44. So him calling for backup... asking for more cars...

do you think that's reasonable and indicative of nothing untoward?

[mr_liberal]

45. That sounds like an overreaction

It almost sounds like a joke. Id have to hear it explained first. Maybe theres a reasonable explanation.

I'm not saying Crowley did everything right. I said days ago that I think he overreacted in arresting Gates and I still beleive that. My post you responded to was specifically about the police report and whether he lied or not. He didnt.

[redqueen]

50. He asked for more cars... made the arrest... defended the arrest/refused to apologize.

That's a pattern.

He needs to apologize for this fiasco.

[mr_liberal]

52. I think Gates owes more of an apology

than Crowley does.

I saw Whalen's lawyer on a show the other night say that Whalen, who is the only eye witness there that wasn't a cop (I think I'm right about that), said she thought the arrest "was appropriate". That she heard loud yelling and the only voice she heard was Gates.

So she was there, I wasn't, and she obviously doesn't think Crowley should apologize, so why should I?

[redqueen]

53. Yes, of course you do. (nt)

[seabeyond]

54. it was so damn loud she didnt hear what was being said. rollin eyes

crowley falsely arrests (yelling isnt a crime) he doesnt produce id (crime) and he lies on a report (crime) and you want gates????

what a bass ackward sense you have

[akbacchus_BC]

60. Your post is priceless even if you are quoting the lawyer. Ms. Whalen

is not Mr. Gates' neighbour, probably never saw him before, until he stepped on the porch, most likely she has no idea what his voice sounds like, yet she claims that the only voice she heard was Gates'.

This spinning is too much, am reeling!

[seabeyond]

61. we all know cops talk quietly, calmly. and the ratchet up agitation with, oh... detaining

to verify info when he KNEW gates belongs there

because cop was quiet in no way exonerates him

[akbacchus_BC]

66. Sorry, probably I was not clear in my amazement that Ms. Whalen

only heard Mr. Gates' voice. Not being his neighbour and probably never met him, how does she know for sure that it was his voice? As far as am concerned, it is Gates' house, and being accosted by the police to prove that you live there, would make anyone livid. So if the voice was that of Mr. Gates, he has the right to shout in his own house.

[seabeyond]

69. hey.....

iw as adding on to your thought. i agree. and i read the article from that witness. there was no name. so the poster you were responding to doesnt know if it was whalen or not. i think it was someone else

but i agree with you

[Bluerthanblue]

64. "Greater Boston"? i saw that too- and the lawyer was

corrected by the other guest, or was it Emily Rooney-
I also think you may want to double check your statement about it being said that Whalen thought the arrest "was appropriate".

Prof. Gates has not stated anywhere that i've read or heard that he would NEVER apologize. Crowley HAS. Gates also agreed to sit down one on one with the ...Mayor of Cambridge (not positive if it was her, or another city offical) very soon after this whole mess hit the press, and Crowley wouldn't respond to the invitation.

Prof. Gates doesn't hold a position which gives him life and death authority over the general public. Sgt.Crowley DOES. He holds the power to arrest and detain people. Sorry, but that fact also requires that he perform in a fair, professional, and civil manner,- and to be sure of his facts. Making up a conversation in an incident report, doesn't do much to inspire confidence.

[seabeyond]

47. crowley reported whalen said, ... there were two black men wearing a backpack. crowley lied

and this is the must absurd stretch of excuse making i have seen yet in this event

[MADem]

56. Yeah, he lied. He said Lucia told him "two black men with backpacks."

He wrote it in his report. He attached her name to it. He knew who she was--she told him she was the one who called 911.

He filed a false report.

He lied.

It wasn't "a mistake."

I also don't believe that Skip Gates said anything about "I'll speak to YO MAMA outside" either.

Skip Gates is not a "yo mama" type. He's more of an "Ewww, this Merlot is a bit woody, wouldn't you say?" type. Crowley took it over the line when he embellished his report with "Negrospeak" to justify the arrest.

You said "...he had to write something there so he wrote that..."

No, he didn't "have" to write anything there, least of all lies, but he did. He's lost credibility. I think he needs to find a new line of work. I don't think he is a good police officer.

Could you point me to the place where Crowley "admits to" his mistake about the two black men? He hasn't admitted anything that I have seen, and he hasn't apologized--and he NEEDS to do that. He was wrong, and he lied in his report.

[goodhue]

59. His report is very detailed and specific as to the conversation

"As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."

[MADem]

70. Jesus what an ass---a "wireless telephone?" He's writing this as though she is a NEIGHBOR.

Most "wireless telephones" that are, in essence, portable landline phones, even now, are much larger than cellphones.

I hope Obama asks Crowley "What was your lying ass thinking when you wrote She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry?"

[Bluerthanblue]

62. no- Crowley's incident report details a conversation between Lucia

and him- a conversation that NEVER happened according to Lucia- and her lawyer. Her account of her call to the PD lined up almost exactly. Crowley wrote that the dispatcher said that Lucia identified 2 black men. The tapes released from the CPD itself disprove this.

:shrug:

You think people are biased against Crowley???? geez.. who was arrested, handcuffed, and removed from his own home for no real prosecutable reason.? not Sgt.Crowley. Who stated that he would NEVER apologize for his actions? not Prof.Gates.

The facts are available - not opinions, but facts. Read the incident report Crowley filed- listen to the actual tapes released by CPD- Then if you still feel your statement holds true.... please explain how you can support it.

:hi:

[Jennicut]

57. Gates said he does not blame her...Crowley overreacted and his report in inaccurate