The media loves to report on overweight people...

[Deja Q]

Okay, that's the current fact.

Will the media ever try to look at underlying psychological issues, such as:

* herd mentality
* depression
* stress (cortisol adds to obesity very nicely x( )
* no desire to live
* laziness


And I really mean an unbiased report... you know that L-word will be thrown around like fertilizer on corn seed.

[patrice]

1. Absolutely reliable Stimulus-Response model = $$$$$$$$. Both Responses!!!

Love Fat People or Hate Fat People, both sides are going to watch = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Deja Q]

4. Logical.

More diet pills to combat those poverty wage paying jobs that people won't do quality work for because you get what you pay for.

[patrice]

11. You nailed it, Deja Q! The Rat Race. What a RACKETT!!!

It's not hard to understand how people get Fat and it has to do with a Whole Lot More than just their eating habits.

:hi:

[Odin2005]

2. Don't forget HFCS.

[Deja Q]

3. EXCELLENT point!

:thumbsup:

[Systematic Chaos]

5. No, it won't. Nor will it come right out and blame the SAD which is the real culprit.

SAD = Standard American Diet

I'm discovering just how amazing it is what you can accomplish on a plant-based diet, even as a super-morbidly obese person who is now uninsured and had to quickly wean himself off 9 medications before they ran out. I have limited mobility due to severe pain issues in my shoulders and arms in addition to my weight-related issues, but still ate well and came down 13 lbs. in the past 4 weeks. It was easy as hell, actually.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11960

Visit, read, learn, say hello. Or do none of the above and tell me all about how you'd never sit next to me on a fucking airplane. :D



Just to make absolutely certain, none of the above was directed towards you, Deja Q. My answer to your question stopped with the subject line of my post.

[Deja Q]

8. Thanks for the link!

I'd sit next to you.

Congrats on the weight loss! Don't rush it or the weight might come back...

My diet is largely plant-based, but to lose weight I must consume fewer than 1348 calories per day (maximum intake 1692). To lose weight I need to exercise; my metabolism is simply too slow. Oh, never see a chiropractor either...

[patrice]

14. My daughter and I are reading Dr. Jordan Rubin. She is actually doing his stuff and is getting

wonderful results. He allows meats and fats, but his big deal is absolutely no chemicals and nothing prepared. He wants us off of potatoes, all grains except sprouted ones, no soy because of the phytoestrogens, and no corn because almost ALL of is now GMO.

I've been having some acid reflux and I am following Dr. Rubin's advice about yogurt and kefir. I'm getting good results.

He also says most of us are running our metabolism on not enough water, so the water we do have in our bodies is recycled and recycled, amounting to metabolism re-using urine over and over again. Rubin says .75 oz of water per pound of body weight a day. Daughter has been doing this. She lost a bunch of weight right away and feels much more energetic - all day long!

[patrice]

24. Producers and Purveyors of SAD should regard themselves in the same manner as Drug Pushers.

YES it IS the Individual Person's responsibility to get off of drugs/food, but it IS also the Pushers' responsibility for making that much more and more and more UNLIKELY. This is NOT a lesser responsibility than the addicts', in fact it may well ultimately be a greater responsibility/guilt.

[Systematic Chaos]

26. You are absolutely correct.

From my experience starting in late 2006 and ending (and I do mean ending -- I'm not going back to a hospital unless I'm too far gone to jump off the fucking gurney) hospitals are among the WORST purveyors of horrible nutrition.

As opposed to the person whose plan you are following, McDougall contends that potatoes are a wonderful and complete food even for diabetics. Raw fruits are not a problem when limited to two per day as well, because the fiber content greatly slows the absorption of the sugars from the fruit into the bloodstream. I'm not stating these things to argue with you over whose plan is better. I'm not like that anyway. However, the point I am getting to is that while in the hospital, they would put me on a "diabetic" diet which included fruit cocktail in syrup, all kinds of refined breads and muffins, and Lorna Doone cookies :wtf: but when I stated that I just wanted plain baked potatoes, bananas and apples they'd inevitably go ballistic. Everything else was prepared and tasted disgusting. Even the "garden salad" tasted like the plastic bag it came out of. The end result of this was that the only hypoglycemic blood sugar readings I've ever had in my life were a result of eating far too little of the proper plant-based foods.

Now that I'm following McDougall strictly and without exceptions, I'm feeling better in just six weeks than I have in nearly 3 years. My fasting blood sugars are in the 175 range and seem to be slowly trending downward, which is excellent for a guy who just stopped 4 diabetic medications and who had blood sugar of over 500 when I was first diagnosed back in 2003. I'd rather see them around 90, of course, but I can only do so much so quickly on diet alone and with no insurance.

[patrice]

47. Huh?! My son is diabetic and an "old" fan of Dream Theater too!

He's still using one of the glucophages, but I talk to him about Dr. Rubin too. I will have him check out this guy McDougall too. Thanks for the tip.

:hi:

[Ignis]

48. I'll also recommend Dr. McDougall's work.

Congrats on eating your way to better health!

:hi:

[AspenRose]

6. And medications too!

And hypothyroidism....

[Deja Q]

7. True on both counts!!!

A combo of antidepressants made me balloon back around 2002... no wonder I had stomach pains for 2 months -- I didn't realize what was ballooning... my belly... I'll spare the childhood traumas and ambient environment that necessitated the need for the garbage... or at least the former; the latter would make anybody batshit crazy over time.

I also have a friend who suffers hypothyroidism. She's fatigued all the time.

[Auggie]

9. Illness -- thank you

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Why is it necessary to excuse every fat person...

from any responsiblity for their own condition? There are some who do have serious problems and need assistance, but how many are there, really?

I am now once again technically obese-- I have gained about 40 pounds in the past two years simply because I don't move around enough. I will say that it's more difficult to exercise for various reason, some of them from other health concerns (like Lyme disease) but in the end it is almost entirely my own fault for not tending to the business of my own fitness.

Am I the only one in the country who will admit this?

[Odin2005]

12. I'm overweight and I'll be perfectly honest that I eat too much.

That's what happens when one likes cooking, LOL! :rofl:

[Javaman]

13. Shhhhh...

stop bringing reality into the conversation.

[Warpy]

16. There is no cure for obesity

No matter what method is used by an obese person to attain his ideal weight--diet through surgery--he is 90% likely to gain it back plus more within five years of achieving it.

Obesity is a complex issue that can't be blamed on lax morals.

[Ron Green]

30. But there's management, and that's what has to happen.

Not only by the individual (I got back on my bike after 15 years of being sedentary and I've lost about 40 pounds), but as a nation we have to look at the fact that money follows disease, depression and addiction rather than health and freedom. Who's going to pay for these messages: "Don't put chemicals in your soil, don't buy corporate food shipped long distances, don't sit and watch TV, don't eat processed junk, don't use tobacco..." and on and on?
But who's going to pay for these messages: "Buy this because you're worth it! You may have acid reflux syndrome. You deserve a break today! Ask your doctor if Blenopopstifol is right for you." ? Yeah, plenty of corporations, with our government's sanction and blessing, will pay for those messages.

The right wing is happy to have all the obesity stories in the news right now because it scares lots of people that they'll have to pay for the fatties' medical care, and because it puts the focus on "personal responsibility." You're right that it's a complex issue, but I have yet to hear any talking head mention the fact that addiction is built into the consumer/advertising message system that now carries ALL our "news," entertainment and information.

[soleft]

17. Why do people think discussing underlying issues is making an excuse?

No one, in my experience, even the most ardent proponents of fat acceptance, wants to be fat.

That would indicate if a person has extra fat on their body, there is an underlying reason why. Yours is an inactive lifestyle. No one is making an excuse for you not tending the business of your own health. There's something blocking you. Why wouldn't you want to invest the effort to look into it?

[Deja Q]

34. Ambient environment and relative psychology

You not only understand, but when saying "There's something blocking you...", you returned his comment far better than I ever could.

There definitely is an underlying reason. Only the mainstream media (and fringe fruitloop Rush Limbaugh) would be content with the status quo and not be bothered to find underlying problems.

[patrice]

20. Not an either/or proposition. Everyone, both/all sides in the situation, should accept responsibilit

y for what they are doing, THEN, there can be no excuses for anyone.

You might be able to change "easily" enough by yourself, but others cannot.

And then there's always the issue of the price of change. Say you do change and get skinny, but for you personally, the price of those changes in yourself is that you, over time, become a skinny heartless selfish bitter bitch like a certain female talk-show hostess on some show with some guy names Joe. Other people might be able to make the change without this price, but for a variety of reasons this IS the price that YOU pay. After that your life is changed by what you've become as a consequence of getting skinny. Maybe something else happens and you change again into a human with a heart again, maybe you never do, so eeveryone around you has to live with what you've become as a result of getting skinny. You weigh less now and you are more "healthy"? Good? or Bad?

Is there some way to make the changes from Fat to Skinny without sooooooooo much downside possible in the personal price some people pay for doing so?

[gbate]

32. I'll admit. I'll also admit that not everyone who is 20-40 lbs overweight is especially unhealthy.

There are definite risks from being overweight, but diabetes, heart disease, and cancer aren't necessarily givens.

[Deja Q]

33. Why is it necessary to think symptoms are problems and not the other way around?

Why do you not move around and exercise? You say you don't, but for every action (or inaction) there is a reason.

What's the reason.

You don't move. That's a symptom.

So, what's the cause?

The "excuses" I made are relevant, but I do appreciate your question...

[MadHound]

15. And overweight people love to come up with excuse after excuse

Look, I understand that there are indeed legitimate medical reasons for people to become overweight, but the fact of the matter is that those with genuine medical/psychological reasons make up a small percentage of the overweight population.

The reason that a person is overweight generally boils down to two things, eating too much and failing to exercise. It's that simple. If you eat a proper diet, in proper amounts, while being physically active, then you won't get fat. For the vast majority of people, it's that simple.

Yet like other addicts, those who are addicted to food will find excuse after excuse for why they're overweight, some externality that they can blame when the simple fact of the matter is they simply don't want to get off the couch.

Yes, I realize that losing weight is a struggle. I've had to go through that struggle in my own life. But it isn't impossible, and unless you're morbidly obese, there is no excuse for not doing so.

So please, let's stop with this search for more and more excuses and simply do the right thing, eat less, exercise more.

[soleft]

18. Again - see above. Why such a knee jerk reaction?

People are complicated. Deal with it.

[MadHound]

22. Because these excuses are being thrown out there and used to make obesity an acceptable norm

I mean really now, "herd mentality"?

The fact of the matter is that in this country we have adapted a sedentary lifestyle, where we sit too much and eat too much. I drive through neighborhood after neighborhood, and where I used to see kids out in the street playing until dark, now all I see are dogs nosing garbage and the spectral glow of the television or computer monitor.

Meanwhile we're suffering from an epidemic of obesity, one that is costing this country billions of dollars and ruining the lives of the next generation. Little kids, grossly overweight, because their parents won't control their diets and won't kick them outside to go be active and play.

And this is all costing you and I money, from healthcare to insurance even unto death. Air Midwest 5481 crashed because it was overweight, having used FAA calculations that were out of date. Sad, that a plane goes down due to too many pounds.

I've just gotten sick of all these excuses, these attempts at normalizing people being overweight. This is a serious healthcare epidemic, and rather than trying to make it acceptable, we should be fighting it. Instead we see people come up with excuse after excuse, and we get fatter and fatter. Sorry, but in most cases there is no excuse.

[Deja Q]

35. Then go after those people. I am looking for underlying societal conditions. Not normalizing.

And if you clicked to read this, then I am most appreciative.

I am not out to make obesity an "acceptable norm". If that's what you think, you're barking up the wrong tree with that myopic mindset.

I too am borderline obese.

I also know why I am.

I also need more convincing there's a future for all of us in this country. I've projected "hope" as being more than a fallacy, hence re-starting my exercise program, but people need tangible goals too, you see...

And, as Soleft eloquently put it, people are indeed complex. There are reasons to find WHY people don't move or exercise. Unique to each individual based on various criteria. Are they excuses? All you've done is make complaints about costs. Without looking at the other side. I'll listen to you, if you do more than just think I am trying to make excuses because obesity should be the norm and we should all be Fat Albert, yelling "Hey hey hey!!!" at every street corner.

Oh, once you find the reasons, you eliminate them. But you still have to find the causes, both personal and SOCIETAL. There's more to it than your cost statistics. Far more. Nobody's going to impugn your stats or credibility. But there's far more to it than just that. And that's why my OP has generated the contributions from many. Real conversations.

I'm sorry you have a fixated mindset that any of us is trying to "make excuses". I thought "progressives" were better than just making excuses, which seems to be what you're doing more than the rest of us.

[MadHound]

39. Then let's boil it down to this

Poor impulse control(this of course excludes those whose weight is due to genuine medical conditions)

We've all had poor impulse control, and there's nothing wrong with grabbing that large dish of ice cream now and again. There's nothing wrong with failing to be active for a day every now and again. We all do it.

But the thing is we've made poor impulse control, through a combination of media and societal promptings, along with our own shortcomings, into a societal norm. And we're continuing to do so. We've become a society of instant gratification, whether it be in our housing purchases or our food purchases, just reach out and get it, now. An entire generation and more have internalized the message that getting yours now and screw the consequences, is the American way of life. People don't seem to either understand or care that there are consequences to their actions, and when those consequences rear up, they blame everything and everybody except themselves. We saw this mentality in the housing bubble, and it is the same dynamic at work concerning obesity.

Projecting hope is a great and wonderful thing, keep up the good work. But life isn't all butterflies and roses, and sometimes people need to deal with the harsher realities of life. Yet too many people, whether it be alcoholics, smokers, or the obese refuse to acknowledge that they, they themselves alone, have a problem with addiction and that they need to do something about it other than blaming everybody and everything else. Yet this is what happens all the time, with all addicts.

You recognize that you're overweight and are doing something about it, good for you! I looked at my parents and recognized that I've got a genetic predisposition towards weight gain, but instead of using that as an excuse for ballooning up, I saw that as a cautionary tale, exercising regularly and keeping active.

Yes, we are flooded with food advertising, with food propaganda, with larger portions and crappier, if more filling food. Yet there is still such a thing as personal responsibility in this country, and far too many people are not exercising it when it comes to food. Yes, there is HFCS in many of the things in the grocery store, so don't shop there, go down the street to a different store, to the farmer's market, or grow your own. Yes, larger portions are served in restaurants, but that doesn't mean you have to eat the whole thing. Yes, there is that ever tempting computer screen, all those food propaganda messages on the TV. Doesn't mean that you have to succumb, that you have to stay glued to a tube all day.

It all comes down to poor impulse control. Too many people have it and refuse to take responsibility for it. That needs to end, as does the blame game that goes along with it. Until that happens, this society is going to continue to degenerate, because poor impulse control shows up in every facet of our lives and society.

But hey, I'll get back to you later on this. Now that I've cooled off from my daily dog walk, I'm going back out to work some more around the farm. Otherwise I would be guilty of poor impulse control when it comes to DU;)

[Deja Q]

36. As for sedentary lifestyle and junk food, and the insurance industry...

you'll have few arguments from me. People are a lot more sedentary nowadays than people of previous generations. The computer being a cause of that condition.

And given all the crap being sold in stores, as a child I don't recall cotton candy sold in plastic boxes, much less the variety of holiday candy being sold. But it makes money. That's all some in our society want. Money. I would argue some in the insurance industry would prefer it if everybody was a little porker. They get larger profits. A nation of healthy people might drive them to bankruptcy... or they'd find another means to ramp up costs. "Free market" and the other excuses they make.

[KamaAina]

43. Soleft! Where ya been?

Mom and Republican Stepdad say :hi: !

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Inability to lose weight can also be a result of food allergies

People in our weight loss clinic who simply can't lose anything and are adhering to our diet suggestions are given a food antibody test. This is a blood draw where the blood is put into contact with 93 different foods to see if the blood makes antibodies. If it does, it is highly recommended not to eat that food. When people follow this advice, they start losing weight, including that last stubborn five pounds that keeps you from your ideal weight.

[otohara]

38. I Had Candida - I Was On The Can't Eat It Diet

for 3 years - I got super skinny and felt great.

I'm always afraid Candida will come back and to this day I keep my intake of wheat, sugar, to a minimum and absolutely no added sugar products.

I learned, if you crave something .... something might be very wrong and certain foods can make you sick if you have a compromised immune system

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. VERY true!

Glad you found an eating plan that works for you!

We see a lot of folks who are yeasty. Kirkman's Labs makes a product called Yeast Aid that we suggest patients take to jump start getting rid of yeast as they start their food program.

[meow2u3]

21. Don't forget orthopedic issues and medicines

which make it painful for some people to get out moving. It literally hurts some people to exercise, and the pain keeps them sedentary, causing them to pack on the pounds. No one is motivated to move when every step is agonizing.

Other underlying causes of obesity:

Breathing problems, especially from asthma, resulting from living in a polluted environment. Who wants to exercise when you can't freakin' breathe?!

Antidepressant and antipsychotic meds whose side effects include extreme drowsiness, which cause an overpowering urge to sleep instead of getting up and moving. The weight gain results from the lack of exercise and too much sleep.

Cortisones (catabolic steroids), whose side effects include a voracious appetite, resulting in weight gain. That happened to me.

[Echo In Light]

23. The inherent superficiality of 'careerism' results in very unhappy/unhealthy people...

....the symptoms of which are then used as cultural entertainment that likewise provides cultural directives/instructions/cues for people to adopt per their affectation. Doing this is a way for people to disavow the overall dysfunction and deception of prevailing ideologies, and instead chalk it up to being 'normal' i.e., "that's just the way it is."

[patrice]

25. DIng! Ding! Ding! "God's People" are FUCKING LOST!!!!!! nt

[Romulox]

27. Who decides what people's "ideal" weight should be, and by what criteria?

And in what era did the majority of persons attain that ideal? :shrug:

[Scout]

29. excellent point

my ideal weight is 125 at the bottom range of frame size and gender.

right now, i am 135 pounds "lean mass" according to my weight and body fat percentage ... so i need to LOSE 10 pounds of lean and have NO FAT at all to be my ideal weight!

:grr:

[undeterred]

28. And they have to show pictures of overweight people

while they are reporting on it, as if nobody would know if they didn't.

[Startup]

49. But they never show the faces... That has always cracked me up.

Way to increase the overall shame factor... (To ugly for television)

[SleeplessInAlabama]

31. Easier target than Congress. n/t

[timeforpeace]

37. It's society's fault, not fat people's. Everyone is a victim. Personal responsibility sucks.

[Vinca]

41. It's pissing me off that obese people, who are admittedly

slow-moving targets, are becoming the scapegoats in the health care debate. Today's meme, 10% of all medical spending is on the obese, ignores the fact that the rest of the spending apparently goes to thin or normal weight individuals. Blaming the fat people also ignores the following: phys. ed. programs cut out of school programs, kids spend more time on computer-related activities than playing outdoors, corn syrup in everything including vegetables, low-income people working so many jobs they literally have no time to cook from scratch for their families, fresh fruits and vegetables are often quite expensive, obese people are automatically denied health insurance so if there is an underlying health issue it won't be discovered, mental health issues are not covered by most health insurance policies and it's well known obesity is often a food addiction or reaction to depression, self loathing, etc., and, of course, there's the 24/7 advertising for super-sized portions of high calorie foods. As a person who could stand to lose a few pounds, it would be a whole lot easier if I had access to affordable medical care and could get the hip replacement I need. At this point I'm in too much pain to even take a walk, much less participate in an exercise program meant to burn calories.

[dmallind]

42. Why on earth assume there ARE "issues"?

For what what reason would I choose to change my chosen lifestyle dramatically enough to no longer be obese (especially given that at 0% body fat - neither possible in practice nor healthy in theory, I would still be technically obese)?

For my longevity? Well actual longevity is not affected all that much by bodyweight except those who have been very obese for many decades (and then it's 9 years tops). Not only that but those extra years are at the end of life. It's not like I get 9 more years of being 25. I just get to see the 9 in between 71 and 80 maybe, or heck 81-90. So I should spend 50+ years of my life enduring the thoroughly miserable existence that would be necessary for me to become "normal" in bodyweight, merely to enjoy nine more years of that same miserable existence with the joys of aging thrown in? On the other hand I could choose to thoroughly enjoy the 50 years of my adult life as I wish and die a bit earlier. I'm thinking the latter option creates more utility for me.

To be "fit"? Fitness means suitability for an intent or need. I have neither the intent or need to run around for miles at speeds above walking pace, or to cycle for oodles of miles or climb mountains. Nothing I enjoy doing, want to do, let alone need to do, requires me to do anything beyond walking a few miles at the maximum. I can do that with perfect ease. I am therefore perfectly suitable for my intents and needs as I am.

To be attractive? I am happily married, with no need to attract any romantic partners. Whether I make people think "gosh he's attractive" or "gosh he's horrible" as I interact with them or pass by is a matter of complete irrelevance to me. I am not possessed of the strange shallow need that many have to make themselves seem attractive to others for no purpose whatsoever.

For my health while I am alive? I am as sturdy and healthy as an ox, but sure and certain in the knowledge that anything could come along and change that, be it related to my weight or not. None of us has the slightest clue what serious health problems we will encounter, regardless of our physical propinquity to the ideal level of weight charts drawn up based on malnourished Belgian peasants. For all I know my lungs could be riddled with cancer or an embolism could be forming in my brain as I sit here. Or I could be due for a coronary tomorrow. What I do know is that EVERY time a health risk is mentioned concerning obesity it is always measured by relative probability. I have an X% greater chance of this and a Y % greater chance of that. At the very far end I may be Z TIMES more likely to get something else. However if I buy 10 lottery tickets I have a ten times greater chance of winning. Is that relevant to my life? Not much chance of it. When the health nazis come up with something serious and worrying that obese people have a high absolute, not relative, probability of getting, and non-obese people have no chance of getting, then I might give a rat's. It still wouldn't stop me from dying of or being hospitalized by all the things that obesity has nothing to do with though, just as it will not for the carpers about other people's weight. We all die. The best hope we can have is that it will be with as little pain and suffering as possible. Trying to make it to age levels where near-constant pain and suffering are almost certain is horribly perverse to me, definitely not an aspiration.

For health care economy? Wait a minute about that new screaming headline that obesity is responsible for 10% of healthcare costs..... Aren't far more than 10% of the people obese? If obesity was a significant contributor to increased healthcare costs and the probability of obese people needing this healthcare was very high - how come that percentage is lower than their portion of the population?

[KamaAina]

44. And what about all the fat- and carb-laden crap on the dollar menus?

Which is all a lot of those screwn by Bushco can afford? Huh?

I guess fat-bashing is just easier. :eyes:

[EndersDame]

45. I myself blame the Media

:silly: Well the enticing glow of the Tee Vee The X box and the computer. I am a "millenial" but grew up part time with my grandma who did have any console system nor a computer and no cable! Instead she took us to the public pool(on a regular basis), got us a bike, let us play in the sprinkler and she took us on walks to the grocery store. My mom also is an old hippie and a veggie who encouraged good eating habits early on. She bought organic vegetables
(when the budget would allow) before it was trendy

[EndersDame]

46. I do understand that undrlying psychological problems do effect weight

but Did previous generations not have these problems ? Certainly people have had pyschological ailments (that went untreated !) back in the old days but there are alot more obese people now.I believe this current epidemic has more to do with sedentary lifestyles added with a diet with more processed foods and fats.

Disclaimer: Not trying to dismiss psychological problems or genetics I know some naturally Big Girls and not trying to say this in a mean or snarky way
(
as often discussing politics via a message board can be)
)