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A freeper melted my brain yesterday. It's taken this long to even *TRY*

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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:13 PM
Original message
A freeper melted my brain yesterday. It's taken this long to even *TRY*
to type this out. It just totally boggles the mind that there are people out there like this.

Background: I live in a very red section of a red state (East Tennessee). There are tons of dyed in the wool freepers around here. They crawl out of the woodwork everywhere. This one works for me--

When he came in friday afternoon, I was talking with someone else about all the scandals and lies coming from this misadministration. The freeper puts in his two cents worth:

Freeper Employee: "I think Bush is a great president!"

Me: "*cough* *choke* *choke*... What's so great about him?"

Freeper Employee: "Everything! He's fixed the economy since Clinton made it crash"..

Me: "BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're joking, right? Clinton left the chimp a THREE TRILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS!, and now we are hundreds of trillions of dollars in debt and spending a BILLION DOLLARS a day on an illegal war"

Freeper Employee: "We should just carpet bomb the hell out of Iraq and be done with it"

Me: "Why? Why should we bomb them? What did they do to us?"

Freeper Employee: "9-11!"

Me: "Nope, that was 14 saudis and 5 pakastanis"

Freeper Employee: "sputter, sputter, remove Saddam, sputter"

Me: "Why aren't YOU signed up and over there fighting for this great cause you believe in?"

Freeper Employee: "I'm a year too old to sign up. I'm 36"

Me: "They upped the age of enlistment to 42"

Freeper Employee: "Really?"

Customer Listening in: "Yep, they changed the enlistment age several months ago."

Freeper Employee: "Well.. ummmm... if I didn't have 2 kids...."

Me: "Yep... just what I thought.. a chickenhawk just like your idol" {turns my attention back to customer I was talking to}

Me:" I'm going with John Edwards for President in '08... I think he would be great for the Country."

Customer: "Yeah, I like him too, he's better than Hillary Clinto or that guy with the religious name(customers exact words).

Freeper Employee: " You know who I think would be a good President? That Condoleeza Rice. She's pretty... and she's very intelligent!"

Me:*CHOKE* *SPEW TEA ACROSS RESTAURANT* *CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE* That's it, I'm going home!!"

NOW FOR THE REALLY BAD PART!

{SUNDAY}
Me, to Freeper Employee: "Happy Bunny Day, Jesus came out of his cave, saw his shadow, and now we're having 6 more months of war" <<<--- (stolen and paraphrased from someone here on DU)

Freeper Employee: "We need to just blow them all up and take OUR OIL!"

Me: "Huh? Our oil?? How the hell is it our oil???"

Freeper Employee: "Well... we NEED it more than they do! We deserve it, we need it more!"

Me: *COUGH CHOKE CHOKE COUGH* <room starts spinning, turning black> "man, I gotta go home before you kill me, dude..."

What rocks do these kind of people live under??

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dairydog91 Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't give * any ideas...
"We need to just blow them all up and take OUR OIL!":
He's got the football, and he might just try this.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Isn't that their line of thinking anyways?
That's the whole point of them starting this war. For the oil.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. FAUX News Rocks. Bet you your freeper employee watches them
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Yep, he is a rushbot and o'lielly follower... n/t
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow.
Because we are oil pigs, we should kill all the people in another country and take their oil.

So, to justify our actions, we should USE MORE OIL! Yeah!
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. All I can do is try to educate him some more, though I really think he is a lost cause
I always try to educate them and bring them into the real world. We owe it to ourselves to do this, or we are just enabling another generation to continue spawning into these creatures.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Congrats, you talked with one of the 28%.
Edited on Mon Apr-09-07 10:19 PM by roamer65
They're a waste of valuable resources, aren't they?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yeah. Like air, for example.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. and space on the roads...
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Isn't it amazing? I read about them all the time, now I have my very own!
:rofl: my very own freeper to play with! I'm looking forward to some more now. He just grew up in a military family, lived on base, etc.. and that shaped his views, just like me growing up in a democratic, union home. At one time, my dad was the president of Pipefitters Local 725 in Miami. My grandfather was a Charter Member of 725. I was never interested in politics until a couple years ago (2004, 2nd stolen election), but I voted straight Democratic Ticket every 4 years, just like clockwork.

I'm not ready to give up on this one yet... I found out today that he is an atheist... although his wife, who works for me also, is a fundie. He seems to understand what I'm telling him.. I just don't think he can absorb it all right now... freepers aren't used to being exposed to truth.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. ...and it has already been allowed to breed.
Maybe the film Idiocracy will turn out to be prophetic instead of just painful to watch.

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4bucksagallon Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Offer to take him to a recruiter and tell him his job will be waiting for him IF he makes it back.
AHHHHHHH chickenhawks I love 'em plenty of them where I work too only there war of choice to AVOID was Vietnam.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. He's just use his kids as a shield again....
"if I didn't have kids..."
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. What about all the other volunteers with wives and children over in Iraq?
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. maybe I'll ask him that when I see him tomorrow... n/t
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. if you do, be sure to mention this:
There are soldiers serving in Iraq whose wives gave birth a couple years ago. Apart from photos, they haven't seen their kids once yet.

Then ask him how old his kids are. I bet that would be a telling number.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
59. his kids are 5 & 7.... but honestly, the "if I didn't have kids" argument *IS*
valid, IMHO... just not while you're beating the war drum. I don't want ANYONE else, not even a gung ho freeper, to die for this lie.

The back side of the "let THEM sign up and go fight" never gets mentioned, so I'll throw it out here... if they sign up and go fight this war, that means people (Americans AND Iraqis) are still getting killed. War has casualties, stop the fighting!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Try this: "But YOU should go fight them over there so your kids don't have to fight them over here!"
... so sayeth Dear Leader. :eyes:
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. PRICELESS!!
"But YOU should go fight them over there so your kids don't have to fight them over here!"

I like that... thanks!
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. I come away from reading this knowing one thing
you're one hell of a good person, much better than me cause I would've fired him first rattle out of the box
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Ummm....that would be seen as discrimination.
Firing someone because of their political stance is a big no-no...
and it's very hard to cite 'damn stupid' as a legit cause.

However, if he brings this stupidity to his job performance and screws things up, THEN....


just I've read so many threads and articles about Dems being fired or threatened or told to STFU because they are unashamedly Democrats and/or liberal in their viewpoint...and we don't like it very much.
JMHO...:shrug:
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Oh, I could *NEVER* fire him for his views, that would be the *ultimate hypocracy*
of myself and how I choose to live and conduct my life. Freedom of speech applies to everyone, not just people that I agree with. Their rights don't end when it becomes uncomfortable for me. All I can do is try to educate them, with the little bit that I know and a LOT of help from references here at DU.

This is where I trust to get truthful news. DU'ers don't let bullshit propaganda get passed around here. I know what I read has been researched by others, and is backed up with verifiable sources. I consider DU a more reliable & reputable news source than ANY MSM outlet.

We need to reach out to these people and at least try to save them. If we keep shunning them, they'll keep crawling back to the altar of their GOP God, worshipping him because he takes them as they are. That's the GOP base.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. You: "I'm sorry, but I am going to have to let you go." Him: "Why?" You: "Because I don't want
anyone as stupid as you working for me. I am surprised you can actually dress yourself in the morning, being as totally clueless as you have shown yourself to be and I don't want any of that rubbing off on the other employees. Get your stuff and get out"


Ahhhh....wouldn't that be fun?
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Fun? Naw.. it's more fun to see how far they will go to defend their views
even when confronted with undeniable facts to the contrary. I could never try to quash someone else's right to free speech, and right to freedom of thought, when I DEMAND it myself. People may not agree with me, they may not like what I've got to say, but by god, no one is going to STOP ME from saying it.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. Next time you see him ask him how his Communist Party meeting went..
When he says he is NOT a member, said you assumed since he advocating taking SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY FOR HIS OWN USE ON THE GROUNDS "We Deserve it, we need it more" he was a Communist. It will really confused him.
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Oh my God! Laughing so much...
That's great. :)

By the time the next presidential election rolls around, America's going to be so pissed off that they'll be asking all the candidates, "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Republican Party U.S.A.?" :rofl:
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. Good one!.... n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. I've been hearing this too much lately:
Freeper Employee: "We should just carpet bomb the hell out of Iraq and be done with it"


What is it with these idiots that they think the solution to everything is to bomb the crap out of everyone we don't like? This country is really sick and it needs a doctor really soon.
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Because they've never been in the middle of a war zone
and think it's glorious or some such crap.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
51. and the ease with which they say it is really amazing, isn't it?
They really, really believe this with all their hearts too.
Scary!
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. *Rice is very ..... intelligent*




He really wanted to say 'articulate' but he couldn't think of the word.

It hasn't been in his limited lexicon until recently. :eyes:





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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. I find it hard not to punch people like that
and I'm not violent by nature, but they arise that much hate in me. the hatred and ignorance it takes to be so callous to the rest of the world around you and the consequences of action is mind boggling.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Now Now We are on the DU opps left hook
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'm in NE, an I have to deal w/these people all of the time...
my favorite tactic is to plant seeds and let them go figure it out for themselves. Every once in a while I water the idea, and cast a little sunshine into their dull little lives.

I set it up so that they have to question their own notions about all of this. No one can change an individual's mind, they can only do that after they've tossed off the mantle of ignorance.

Argue w/them...not any more, it's not worth the time and effort, but helping them along breaks down the facade they have built, and suddenly, they see that this is not the GOP of Lincoln or Eisenhower, it is something that was spawned from the gates of hell. I have little problem w/GOPer's that are more "old line", these neo-cons are trying to set up a fiefdom, where the citizens will service the nobility...:grr:
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. Since you are in Nebraska,, bring up William Jennings Bryan's opinion on Imperialism.
His speeches and writings on the Subject (Bryan Opposed Imperialism and the annexation of the Philippines and other territories after the War with Spain).
http://www.boondocksnet.com/ai/ail/bryan.html

From his "Jefferson vs Imperialism" Speech:

The advocates of imperialism have sought to support their position by appealing to the authority of Jefferson. Of all the statesmen who have ever lived, Jefferson was the one most hostile to the doctrines embodied in the demand for a European colonial policy.

Imperialism as it now presents itself embraces four distinct propositions:

1. That the acquisition of territory by conquest is right.

2. That the acquisition of remote territory is desirable.

3. That the doctrine that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed is unsound.

4. That people can be wisely governed by aliens.

To all these propositions Jefferson was emphatically opposed. In a letter to William Short, written in 1791, he said:

"If there be one principle more deeply written than any other in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest."......

Could he be more explicit? Here we have a clear and strong denunciation of the doctrine that territory should be acquired by force. If it is said that we have outgrown the ideas of the fathers, it may be observed that the doctrine laid down by Jefferson was reiterated only a few years ago by no less a Republican than James G. Blaine. All remember the enthusiasm with which he entered into the work of bringing the republics of North and South America into close and cordial relations; some, however may have forgotten the resolutions introduced by him at the conference held in 1890, and approved by the commissioners present. They are as follows:

"First -- That the principle of conquest, shall not, during the continuance of the treaty of arbitration, be recognized as admissible under American public law.

"Second -- That all cessions of territory made during the continuance of the treaty of arbitration, shall be void if made under threats of war or in the presence of an armed force.

"Third -- Any nation from which such cessions shall be exacted may demand that the validity of the cessions so made shall be submitted to arbitration.

"Fourth -- Any renunciation of the right to arbitration made under the conditions named in the second section shall be null and void."

If the principle of conquest is right, why should it be denied a place in American public law? So objectionable is the theory of acquisition of territory by conquest that the nation which suffers such injustice can, according to the resolutions, recover by arbitration the land ceded in the presence of an armed force. So abhorrent is it, that a waiver of arbitration, made under such circumstances, is null and void. While the resolutions were only for the consideration of the American republics, the principle therein stated cannot be limited by latitude or longitude.

But this is a time of great and rapid changes, and some may even look upon Blaine's official acts as ancient history. If so, let it be remembered that President McKinley only a year ago (December 6, 1897), in a message to Congress discussing the Cuban situation, said:

"I speak not of forcible annexation, for that is not to be thought of. That, by our code of morality, would be criminal aggression."

And yet some are now thinking of that which was then "not to be thought of." Policy may change, but does a "code of morality" change? In his recent speech at Savannah, Secretary Gage, in defending the new policy of the administration, suggested that "philanthropy and five percent" may go hand in hand. Surely we know not what a day may bring forth, if in so short a time "criminal aggression" can be transformed into "philanthropy and five percent." What beauty, what riches, the isles of the Pacific must possess if they can tempt our people to abandon not only the traditions of a century, but our standard of national morality! What visions of national greatness the Philippines must arouse if the very sight of them can lead our country to vie with the monarchies of the old world in the extension of sovereignty by force.

Jefferson has been called an expansionist, but our opponents will search in vain for a single instance where he advocated the acquisition of remote territory. On the contrary, he expressly disclaimed any desire for land outside of the North American continent. That he looked forward to the annexation of Cuba is well known, but in a letter to President Monroe, dated June 23, 1823, he suggested that we should be in readiness to receive Cuba "when solicited by herself." To him Cuba was desirable only because of the island's close proximity to the United States. Thinking that some one might use the annexation of Cuba as a precedent for indefinite expansion, he said in a letter to President Madison, dated April 27, 1809:

"It will be objected to our receiving Cuba that no limit can then be drawn to our future acquisitions," but, he added, "Cuba can be defended by us without a navy, and this develops the principle which ought to limit our views. Nothing should ever be accepted which would require a navy to defend it."

In the same letter, speaking of the possible acquisition of that island, he said:

"I would immediately erect a column on the southernmost limit of Cuba, and inscribe on it a ne plus ultra as to us in that direction."

It may be argued that Jefferson was wrong in asserting that we should confine our possessions to the North American continent, but certainly no one can truthfully quote him as an authority for excursions into the eastern hemisphere. If he was unwilling to go farther south than Cuba, even in the western hemisphere, would he be likely to look with favor upon colonies in the Orient?

If the authority of Jefferson cannot be invoked to support the acquisition of remote territory, much less can his great name be used to excuse a colonial policy which denies to the people the right to govern themselves. When he suggested an inscription for his monument he did not enumerate the honors which he had received, though no American had been more highly honored; he only asked to be remembered for what he had done, and he named the writing of the Declaration of Independence as the greatest of his deeds. In that memorable document he declared it a self-evident truth that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. The defense and development of that doctrine was his special care. His writings abound with expressions showing his devotion to that doctrine and his solicitude for it. He preached it in the enthusiasm of his youth; he reiterated it when he reached the age of maturity; he crowned it with benedictions in his old age. Who will say that, if living, he would jeopardize it today by engrafting upon it the doctrine of government by external force?

Upon the fourth proposition Jefferson is no less explicit. Now, when some are suggesting the wisdom of a military government for the Philippines, or a colonial system such as England administers in India, it will not be out of place to refer to the manner in which Jefferson viewed the inability of aliens to prescribe laws and administer government. In 1817 a French society was formed for the purpose of settling upon a tract of land near the Tombigbee river. Jefferson was invited to formulate laws and regulations for the society. On the 16th of January of that year he wrote from Monticello expressing his high appreciation of the confidence expressed in him, but declining to undertake the task. The reasons he gave are well worth considering at this time. After wishing them great happiness in their undertaking he said.

"The laws, however, which must effect this must flow from their own habits, their own feelings, and the resources of their own minds. No stranger to these could possibly propose regulations adapted to them. Every people have their own particular habits, ways of thinking, manners, etc., which have grown up with them from their infancy, are become a part of their nature, and to which the regulations which are to make them happy must be accommodated. No member of a foreign country can have a sufficient sympathy with these. The institutions of Lycurgus, for example, would not have suited Athens, nor those of Solon, Lacedaemon. The organizations of Locke were impracticable for Carolina, and those of Rosseau for Poland. Turning inwardly on myself from these eminent illustrations of the truth of my observation, I feel all the presumption it would manifest should I undertake to do what this respectable society is alone qualified to do suitably for itself."

The alien may possess greater intelligence and greater strength, but he lacks the sympathy for, and the identification with, the people. We have only to recall the grievances enumerated in the Declaration of Independence to learn how an ocean may dilute justice and how the cry of the oppressed can be silenced by distance. And yet the inhabitants of the colonies were the descendants of Englishmen -- blood of their blood and bone of their bone. Shall we be more considerate of subjects farther away from us, and differing from us in color, race and tongue, than the English were of their own offspring?

Modest Jefferson! He had been Governor, Ambassador to France, Vice-President and President; he was ripe in experience and crowned with honors; but this modern law-giver, this immortal genius, hesitated to suggest laws for a people with whose habits, customs and methods of thought he was unfamiliar. And yet the imperialists of today, intoxicated by a taste of blood, are rash enough to enter upon the government of the Filipinos, confident of the nation's ability to compel obedience, even if it cannot earn gratitude or win affection. Plutarch said that men entertained three sentiments concerning the ancient gods: They feared them for their strength, admired them for their wisdom and loved them for their justice. Jefferson taught the doctrine that governments should win the love of men. What shall be the ambition of our nation -- to be loved because it is just or to be feared because it is strong.


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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Before I got around to reading about WJB, all I knew about him...
was how he was portrayed in, "Inherit The Wind", but he was one of the last Populists this nation has seen, and he was darn good at it...:D

Weeping Water NE, pretty far South of where I am, but Bryan was a real citizens/farmer type person. Religion aside, he was for the Common Man as no one since. OF course this was 'old' D, so he'd probably be considered an R now, but he was a true Conservative on some issues, and a true Progressive on others.
He was a man of his times, and from what I understand, quite the orator. On the History Channel about 2 months ago, they had found a recording of WJB, although scratched and obviously some pretty poor quality anyway, one could tell he was a powerhouse speaker. Then again, he came out of that age...:D
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I can NOT see him as A Republican, to "Progressive".
When freed from his Presidential ambitions he came out for Women's right to Vote and Prohibition (Which he viewed as improving society by separating the Inner Cities from the Control of the GOP, which controlled Cities during his time period via the liquor business). He advocated the Nationalization of the Railroads (and then back tracked when this was attacked, but only to the extent of demanding strict Government Regulations of said railroads). He supported Unions and demanded regulations of Wall Street. When the Country needed some inflation, he support the "Free Minting of Silver" to achieve such inflation.

On foreign policy he set up a system on international Arbitration while he was Secretary of State under Wilson (And then resign in 1915 when Wilson refused to Crack down on the Banks who were loaning money to Britain and France, even after Bryan told Wilson such loans will lead to the US being forced to enter WWI).

Even his opposition to the Teaching of Evolution out of his progressive side. Tied in with Evolution was the concept of Social Darwinism, that is was BAD public policy to help the poor, they should survive on their own under the concept of the Survival of the Fittest. Bryan opposed such concept believing he was his brother's Keeper.

Now as to race the situation is more complex, the Democratic Party was the Party of Segregation during the WHOLE TIME HE WAS POLITICALLY ACTIVE. Bryan thus had to accommodate such racists (As did FDR when he became President in 1932). Bryan is often attacked for his 1924 Speech during the Democratic Convention saying it was better to support the KKK then to go with the Inner city. Bryan viewed the KKK as a temporary phenomenal that would soon run its course and viewed the Cities as GOP dominated (His views would be show to be correct in 1928 when Al Smith won the Democratic Nomination and had the worse showing of any Democratic ever, the Cities outside of New York City were still GOP dominated, the cities would only turn Democratic in the 1930s and the KKK by 1928 was in Rapid Decline).

I can not find any racist comments by Bryan, but I would NOT be surprise they are some out there for it was a very racist time period. Theodore Roosevelt for example after the battle of San Juan Hill commented on the bravery of the Blacks in the 10th Calvary that fought along side his Rough Riders during the battle with the Comment "They can drink out of my Canteen any time". When TR ran for the Governorship of New York State TR felt he had to appease the racist vote by saying he had to push the Blacks of the Black regiments up San Juan Hill with a bayonet. If TR felt he had to make a Racist Statement, Bryan probably made at least one too (Through I have NOT found one). An example of Bryan view can be seen in the Scopes Trial when being asked questions about Buddha the following exchanged occurred:

DARROW: If Your Honor please, instead of answering plain specific questions we are permitting the witness to regale the crowd with what some black man said to him when he was traveling in Rangoon, India.

BRYAN: He was dark-colored, but not black.


Darrow appears to have tried to bring in some racism into the trial, but Bryan response reflected an almost manner of fact statement as to the nature of the person Bryan had talked to while on his travels (Bryan Traveled Widely during his life, going all over the world).

As to race, as to most things, Bryan was to the Left of TR when both were at the height of their Political power in the period 1896 to 1920 (TR died in 1919, Bryan saw the Conservative Wing of the Democratic Party win the Candidacy in 1920 and 1924 (Through to appease the Progressives the VP were more progressive in both elections).

As to the Scopes Trial, Bryan just opposed teaching HUMAN evolution in the Public Schools with Public Money when the majority of people opposed such teaching. Bryan had read how almost all of the German Military High Command "believed" in Darwinism and how many of those German Commanders had used Darwinism to justify the most hellish means to win WWI (And he was familiar with similar attitude among Western Leaders). Bryan opposed such win at all cost attitude. Bryan believe people were to help our fellow man, not maim or kill him and as such opposed Darwinism (and its relation Social Darwinism.

In my opinion, as to Gay marriage, and the war in Iraq, Bryan would be opposed to both. Bryan would opposed BOTH do to his Christian Fundamentalism. He would be more opposed to the War in Iraq for it would be causing harm to out fellow man. As such Bryan would be a good Democrat even today supporting the Entire Democratic Platform.

Transcript of the Examination of Bryan by Darrow:
http://personal.uncc.edu/jmarks/darrow.html

More on the Scopes Monkey Trial:
http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/tennesse.html
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Pardon my error in syntax, I should have written more tot he point as
per his religious views; in my error, I was looking more toward the evangelical aspect when I wrote the previous post.

As for the Progressive part, I feel that he was progressive and had the concerns of the Common Man at heart when he ran those times, and in other situations. He knew, long before many others did, that the accumulation of cash in corporations, banks, and other financial institutions was killing off the Average American. As for women's suffrage, he was a staunch supporter of such, as well as other situations, such as Civil Rights, but the times indeed dictated a different approach.

As for TR, he did have one black guest in the WH, and the uproar set up the situation where he wouldn't do that again for political expedience.

The 10th Cav, had a Sgt Major that was awarded his second MOH for saving a white Lt during the battle. The 10th Cav saved the day for the Rough Riders...those were some exceptionally tough fighting men, they earned their way through the Indian Wars, and the Spanish in Cuba were nothing like what they done before, the Spanish folded before them.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. My point as to the Tenth was that TR HAD to state a Racist line.
NOT that TR was a racist. People tend to forget that prior to about 1892 the South was mostly integrated. You had segregated Churches (i.e. Blacks and Whites going to separate Churches) but everything else integrated. This started ot Change in the 1890s and expanded after the Supreme Court Adopted the Doctrine of Separate but Equal doctrine in 1898 (Through the Federal Government would stay integrated till Wilson became President in 1912, which would start to end in the late 1930s under FDR and killed off in most Federal Jobs by the early 1950s under Truman).

Thus my comment on the Klan, it was big in the mid-1920s and then collapsed and from that fall you start to see segregation going on the defensive. Things change over time, but the real issue is whether the change is to the better. Bryan, FDR, Truman, JFK, Johnson and Carter were all progressives fighting to improve the rights of the Working man. That changed with Reagan (Through it started under Nixon). Hopefully we are over the rise of the Conservative Movement in America, just like American finally rejected Conservatism in the 1930s do to the Great Depression.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
52. Your plan sounds like mine. I try not to berate them, they've been humiliated
enough already, but they can't admit it to themselves. We need to bring "our friends on the other side of the isle" across that isle into the folds of our camp. Berating, namecalling & threats don't help us at all.

Keep planting the seeds... then watch the fruits of your labor grow as more and more of the Country wakes up.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. It works a lot better than any other means I've tried...
These things take time, and berating people does nothing but stir up anymosity and drive a person further from your position.

As long as your on firm ground, you can have an impact...:)

I've seen a lot of people grow over the years, some take longer than others, but I've had a few failures as well. This is what life is like, win some, lose some...and know when to back off before you get someone too riled.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-09-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. This employee initiated this display of ignorance in front of a customer?
He must be a hell of a worker at whatever he does.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
53. No, I initiated the conversation. My customers (regulars) *know* my political
stand. Election night '06 my whole family was at the restaurant and I had the returns on on the radio. When they announced that WE had taken the Senate also, EVERYONE IN THERE applauded and cheered! EVERYONE! I'm surrounded by repugs, but one thing I've noticed in talking with them is... most of them are sick of the chimp and his traveling circus show.

And yes, he is one hell of a worker, the best I've got, actually. I wish I had 6 more like him and his wife, who works for me also. He's a cook, she's a server. Funny couple too... he's athiest/freeper, she's fundie/apolitical.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. My hat's off to you, it sounds like an interesting workplace.
:hi:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'd fire him, otherwise he's likely to rob you blind.
He "needs it" and "deserves it" more than you do. :eyes:

He seriously doesn't sound like anyone I'd want around me or my property or my customers.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. I'm guessing you do own a business.
That was almost verbatim what I was thinking when I read this post.


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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
63. I don't own a business (I think I would be terrible at it),
but I sure as hell wouldn't want someone like that around if I did. Wouldn't want someone like that around anyway.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
54. I don't think I ever have to worry about that with him. His world views might be
warped, but the guy isn't a thief. I could never honestly say that about him at all. He's actually been good for my business, as far as saving me some money and some of his ideas.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
32. LOL!
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Decruiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Oh Swamp Rat, Just beautiful. Sweet laughter in the early am.
I'm saving this thread. Thanks DU'ers for helping me to start my day in the conservative wasteland of Dallas on a very high and happy note.

You are the bestest Swampie!
(I'm hoping we make it to JazzFest this year - I really would like to see Norah J and John M. along with so many other greats)
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. Swamp Rat - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do 'Jesus Sees his Shadow'
OMFG..I almost fell off the couch at that image..jesus comes out of the cave, sees his shadow, and we'll have six more months of war.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
37. I Might Have Said This To My Employee
I do not supervize anyone.

But, if I had an employee who said to me "George Bush is a great president", I think my response would have been:

"Sorry, but I do not allow politcal discussions while we at working. Now please get back to work."
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. I would have said, "Yeah, he grates on my nerves too!"
Then I'd have to turn and walk away because the words "You moron" would be hard to stop from passing my lips.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. But I *DO* allow, actually encourage, political discussion. My place is
like the local coffee shop, where people come to hang out, drink coffee, eat, talk and gossip! Oh the gossip! But anyways, this is a small town too, where everyone knows everyone, and I hire all locals. We have a good rapport with our customers, on first name basis with at least 75% of them.
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. OIL
See it was about Oil

This one kills me............
Freeper Employee: "We need to just blow them all up and take OUR OIL!"

Me: "Huh? Our oil?? How the hell is it our oil???"

Freeper Employee: "Well... we NEED it more than they do! We deserve it, we need it more
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Worrisome exchange
What if the employee decides he needs money for himself more than the business does? Keep him away from the till and the checkbook.

But he could be reachable. Stay in dialog, and give him something to think about besides what he sees and hears on Faux.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. that's what I was thinking
I would have asked him whose oil is it? It's on their land and it's their oil-so, are you saying that you condone stealing? It is stealing, taking something that doesn't belong to you. I'd ask him, so if you saw some money on the counter at the store and you believe that your special, you need it, you deserve it, would you take it? His answer would determine if he still had a job!!!
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Oil and Stealing
Doesnt it say in 'their' bible or 10Commandantments that stealing is a 'sin' or wrong?
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
56. yeah, that statement floored me. I just had to leave on that.
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A wise Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
40. I've often wanted to post
my thoughts about these things called republicans. So I've concluded that they are from another world. It is unnatural to fantom that what is in front of you is not what you see, or that 1+1=2 and not 11.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. I had to post it, just to try to get it out of my head... n/t
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
47. I believe you, I have had similar conversations, mind numbing.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-10-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Mind numbing indeed... I told him I was going home to floss my brain out,
because he had just filled it full of sh*t...
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