Brainstorming on Health Care

[MessiahRp]

Just thinking out loud here...

For those tools who think Universal Health Care is so awful, is there a way to do a public option where you can choose Single Payer and if so you opt in and pay taxes for it and if you choose to stick with your current plan you can opt out and not have to pay the taxes? I would guess the pools would shrink a bit but the Single Payer pool would still probably be huge considering how many more people we have here than other Single Payer countries.

When you opt out you only get the coverage you pay for, no more, no less... and if you put in provisions that health care providers must weigh the customers equally regardless of insurance type, it would seem very difficult to not be able to prove Single Payer's superiority after a sustained period of time.

Everyone that I hear complaining about Universal Health Care whines about their taxes (most of them are too dumb to realize how much they pay in per year with premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc). This would be able to let them do their thing which is pay too much for shoddy insurance set up to reject your claims, while we could do ours.

Is this at all feasible? Are there details that could be tweaked here to make that work?

Just throwing it out there... would like some ideas from all of you that may be smarter on this than I.

Rp

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. You just described HR3200. n/t

[MessiahRp]

4. That seems to still tax those who would opt out...

And as I think about it, the burden shouldn't be entirely on those using it since it will be disproportionately the poor and middle class that need the coverage the most.

So maybe an employer based tax to offset some of the cost... it will still likely be FAR less than employers pay now.

My point with this is to take away the only semi-valid complaint that opponents to Govt Health Care have, in that removing their tax burden if they want nothing to do with the Single Payer system. But on the flip side I feel in the long run they'll understand the foolishness of their decision when they see how much better this system is working for everyone else and slowly but surely they'll switch over.

I don't believe that we can try to get legislation later to change this because it seems that more often than not when these things are revisited, it's to try to privatize them (the Prescription Drug Benefit, Social Security "reform", etc).

So if we hit this in a way that can push a progressive swap to full on Single Payer by osmosis for those too hard headed to agree with it right now, we might be able to make the change we need.

Rp

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. *putting on my 'nice' hat*

I don't understand what you are saying.

HR3200 doesn't compel anyone to "pay taxes" to participate in "the single payer system".

HR3200 creates a healthcare exchange where individuals and small businesses can buy coverage. It is the ONLY place that people can purchase coverage. The exchange;
* carries the offerings of a variety of private insurers AND a public plan which is expected to be about 10% cheaper than the competition.
* approves rates for the various plans.
* establishes three tiers of coverage, and dictates a minimum standard
* guarantees that no one is turned away because of preexisting conditions
* establishes rates based on age and gender. No other criteria.

The bill also mandates that all but the smallest employers offer insurance equivalent to the coverage offered by the exchange, and pay at least 65% of the family's cost.

The bill makes healthcare affordable by capping total annual out of pocket costs and subsidizing individuals premiums if they make less than 400% of FPL ($88,000 for a family of four)

Now, so that I can understand your question, can you please rephrase it in the context of legislation that is under consideration?

[MessiahRp]

6. Let me re-read the legislation and get back to you on that tonight after work...

I may have mis-read but I thought there was still an income tax involved. I want to research this more before responding again without all of the facts at my disposal. Impossible to make a reasoned argument (or agreement) without doing so.

Rp

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. One of the proposals offered to pay for the "affordability credits"

... or subsidy for lower income taxpayers so they can afford the coverage offered by the exchange, is a tax hike on people making more than $250,000 per year. Obama has suggested that this take the form of limiting tax deductions to 28%.

I don't believe that this was actually part of hr3200 though.

[Shagbark Hickory]

2. What if we're against the public post office and public fire department and public schools?

Can we opt out of that shit too?

[MessiahRp]

3. Well no... but those are already enacted in previous legislation

I'm talking strictly of this subject.

Rp