Is the answer to puppy mills more local breeding

[KurtNYC]

Perhaps the push to spay and neuter EVERY single dog has lead to the dominance of puppy mills. Back in the day most people got their dogs from someone else in their community. A great healthy dog could produce great healthy pups. But these days many legit breeders spay and neuter automatically. Before the health and disposition of the dog is fully known. There are many great dogs in the US that are incapable of reproducing.

Meanwhile large, for-profit breeding operations push their bitches to deliver as many litters as they can. And there are many AKC breed standards which largely ignore the health consequences in favor of outward appearance. Our wonderful dog (AKC registered) got lung cancer perhaps, according to the vet, because her breathing was so difficult (thankfully she lived to 13 anyway).

I would like to see more responsible people breed their dogs for a litter or two. If the future belong to irresponsible breeders the quality and health of dogs will continue to diminish.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Absolutely not. Back yard breeding does nothing to insure health or quality of the animals. Puppy

mills exist to supply pet stores that still sell animals and they also produce unhealthy animals. What we need is direct licensing of qualified breeders to simply keep the breeds alive. Everybody else should get their dogs from shelters and rescue groups. We still kill over 5 million dogs/puppies a year in this country, so we don't need more breeding.

[Obama2012]

5. +1

The reason why German Shepherds in Germany are so much better is (1) no AKC and (2) strict licensing of breeders.

[pnwmom]

11. Why are the recognized breeds the only dogs worthy of being reproduced?

What's wrong with mixed breeds, which are often healthier?

If AKC-type breeders are the only people who raise dogs, then all dogs from shelters and rescue groups will also be purebreds. Dogs were much healthier decades ago when most dogs were mutts.

[sinkingfeeling]

42. I didn't mean that mutts couldn't be bred. I just want to control the number of breeders. Currently,

with millions of mixed breeds ending up in shelters and being destroyed, it's not a problem with a lack of breeders.

[NashVegas]

45. You Also Seem to Be Saying

That people who aren't going into pet ownership as for-profit registered breeders should consign themselves to the weeks and months, sometimes years, of rehabbing a shelter animal.

Best dog my family had was an 'oops' on a "backyard breeder's" part. Somehow a hound found a collie, and a litter came from it, including the most wonderfully caring, gentle, and yet fiercely protective animal, whose howl was legend in our neighborhood.

We could never have gotten that animal from a pound, not unless the breeder decided to just dump the litter instead of offer the pups to good homes.

[sinkingfeeling]

51. What? There are hundreds of thousands of entire litters dumped at shelters every year and you think

you could never have found a good dog there? I've had dozens and dozens of dogs in my life, starting with the 18 that I took in from people driving 30 miles outside of Columbus, Ohio to dump them. I've adopted some from shelters and have never been required to spend week, months, or years rehabbing any of them. I've also neutered purebred AKC-registered dogs. Have 2 American Eskimos that I got from a rescue group 800 miles from me 5 years ago and both are neutered.

The fact that your dog was an 'oops' is just proof that the owner of the bitch was totally irresponsible and had no business having an intact female, while the owner of the hound was an irresponsible owner that let his dog run loose throughout the neighborhood, impregnating as many females as it could get to.

I commend you for providing a home to your 'oops' dog. It still doesn't address the millions of 'oops' dogs that are killed each year because there is noone to adopt them.

Pet Overpopulation Statistics
============ ========= ========= ========= ===
• Number of cats and dogs entering shelters
each year: 6-8 million (HSUS estimate)

• Number of cats and dogs euthanized
by shelters each year: 3 - 4M (HSUS estimate)

• Number of cats and dogs adopted from
shelters each year: 3 - 4M (HSUS estimate)

• Number of cats and dogs reclaimed by owners
from shelters each year: Between 600 and 750k --
30% of dogs and 2-5% of cats entering shelters
(HSUS estimate)

• Number of animal shelters in the USA:
Between 4k and 6k (HSUS estimate)

• Percentage of dogs in shelters
who are purebred: 25% (HSUS estimate)

• Average number of litters a
fertile cat can produce in one year: 3

• Average number of kittens
in a feline litter: 4 - 6

• In 7 years, one female cat and her
offspring can theoretically produce 420k cats.

• Average number of litters a
fertile dog can produce in one year: 2

• Average number of pups per canine litter: 6-10

• In 6 years, one female dog and her
offspring can theoretically produce 67k dogs.
http://www.caninetalk.com/community/MaureenSchooley/blogs/Pet-Overpopulation-Statistics-2008

[pnwmom]

73. That's actually not true. Litters of puppies are becoming a rarity at many

shelters across the country, due to the huge success of spay/neuter programs. The problem is older dogs with/without behavior problems who are given up largely by irresponsible pet owners. And, of course, cats -- who outnumber dogs in shelters and are much less likely to be adopted.

The numbers of young puppies are so small at many shelters we are even starting to import them from countries that don't have spay neuter programs.

[sinkingfeeling]

79. There are more puppies at my local shelter than they can handle even after

putting down older dogs. The South is still overrun by 'oops' dogs.

There are still more reasons shelters are full. According to Spay USA, for every 10,000 humans born, there are 70,000 puppies and kittens born.

Read more: http://dogbreeding.suite101.com/article.cfm/so_many_shelter_dogs#ixzz0MD2O7iKy

[pnwmom]

82. I've heard that about the South. They're beginning to ship some of those

puppies to New England and the Northwest, which makes sense. As of yesterday, at the Seattle Humane Society, there were only four available dogs under the age of a year, and three of them were pitbull mixes; only one was under six months old, and it was one of the pit bulls.

[Obama2012]

58. They weren't a breeder, they were somebody who was too irresponsible to get their dog fixed

I'm not sure the pups weren't nice, I'm sure they were, but MANY people in that situation dump them off at shelters (or worse, on the sides of roads).

[Walk away]

2. The answer to puppy mills is jail and serious fines.

Legitimate breeders should be encouraged to breed dogs in healthy and humane conditions. Puppy mills should be actively exposed and shut down. Pet shops that sell puppies should be fined and closed for purchasing puppies from mills (almost all of them do).

Making the problem worse by encouraging Joe Sixpack to breed his own pets in the basement or garage without any idea what he's doing seems to be less than humane.

Spay and neuter please.

[joeybee12]

4. Amen!

And people should be encouraged to check their local shelters for their new pets...home breeding just means fewer of the abandoned animals will ever find homes.

[KurtNYC]

6. I consider myself an animal lover

and I include human beings.

[Dutch]

77. Including the scum that run puppy mills?

[Critters2]

12. +1

And welcome to DU! :hi:

[Dutch]

76. Hell yes.

[Obama2012]

3. Wait, you think the solution is backyard breeding?

That's incredible irresponsible.

The solution is tough penalties for puppy mills and banning the sale of puppies in pet stores.

The solution to the AKC fucking up breeds is not to have "responsible" owners breed their pet because it's a "nice, healthy dog" but to start breeding dogs back for what they were bred for.

And, in case you haven't noticed, there are millions of animals dying in shelters, and backyard (or as you say "responsible") breeders contribute a lot to that.

[KurtNYC]

7. Not a solution -- another option for would be dog owners

Good choices come from having good options.

[Obama2012]

28. Responsible breeding is breeding their dogs for the purpose the dog was bred to do

AKA, not something the average "responsible" owner or the AKC does.

The AKC fucking sucks, I'll agree with you there, but backyard breeders do nearly as much damage as the puppy mills do. Breeders should be licensed and inspected and breed only for a purpose and puppy millers should be in jail. That will cut down on problems. Not having my next door neighbor breed their Golden because it's a nice dog.

I'm sorry you got a fucked up AKC dog, but why don't you try adopting from a shelter or find a reputable breeder in that breed.

[pnwmom]

37. Why? Why is it only acceptable to breed a dog for a specific purpose because

someone else long ago decided to breed a dog for a specific purpose?

If your neighbor breeds their Golden because it's a nice, healthy dog, chooses a father that is equally nice and healthy (screening for common genetic diseases) takes good care of the mother and puppies, and has good homes lined up when the puppies are born, I fail to see the problem.

[Obama2012]

43. If you're not going to preserve the integrity of the breed, you shouldn't breed

[pnwmom]

65. I strongly disagree. Far too often, breed standards have nothing to do with

a dog's well being and everything to do with subjective appeal to the breeders. Why do we have breed standards that result in dog muzzles that are so squashed a dog can barely breathe? Or legs that are so short that the dogs develop arthritis both the legs and the back? Or require a solid color coat when a dog of mixed colors would be just as healthy? Or recommend docked tails and ears?

What does the color of a dog or the curve of its tail have to do with its ability to do the work it was supposedly bred for? And why can't a dog be bred for more than one thing?

After generations of inbreeding that caused the serious health problems in most breeds today, the AKC and others who call for preserving "the integrity of the breed" have very little to stand on, IMO.

[KurtNYC]

46. The dog was not "F'd up" -- the breed was Boxer and they

are bred to a standard which demands the short muzzle. Therefore the dogs have a harder time regulating their own body temperature.

It is not one dog that was "f'd up" -- it is the superficial AKC standard which is F'd up and cruel.

[Obama2012]

59. If you read my posts, you would see I hate the AKC

[pnwmom]

66. Then what on earth do you mean by "preserving the integrity of the breed"

and who is supposed to decide what that entails?

[Obama2012]

68. Breeding dogs who can still do what they were bred to do originally

The people who decide that are those who actually use their dogs for that purpose. Not some yahoo who thinks breeding their dog is a good idea cause she's nice.

For example, instead of breeding labs to waddle around a show ring, they should be breeding labs that have proven hunting ability. German Shepherds should be bred for schutzhund/herding. Etc.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to dogs that were bred to be lap dogs, but there are still cases where it's in effect. King Cavalier Spaniels often don't live past 7 or so due to genetic heart problems. However, there is a KCS kennel club out there that gets MRI testing dog on their dogs before breeding in an attempt to breed this heart problem out. The AKC isn't doing that, and some jackass with their "nice" pet Cavalier isn't doing that either.

[pnwmom]

70. Why does it matter what they were originally bred to do?

So someone decided a long time ago they wanted a dog to do a certain job that might not even exist in 2009. So what?

Now people are breeding dogs to be therapy dogs, or service dogs, or dogs with lower risk of allergies to people. Why are any of these uses less valid than what dogs were "originally" bred for --e.g., fox hunting, dog fighting, truffle digging?

[Obama2012]

75. Generally, dogs from lines bred to a purpose adapt easily to other jobs

Because they WANT to do something, and are generally used for something that is essentially an adaptation of what they were originally bred to do.

I guess you can't understand it until you see a fine dog doing what it was bred to love.

[pnwmom]

78. My labradoodles LOVE hiking in the woods, which we are able to do several

times a week, swimming, and chasing after things. That's close enough to what they were originally bred to do to satisfy them. Plus they are wonderful and intelligent family dogs, who almost seem to be mind-readers at times. They are also a size which works well for us (as opposed to poodles, which are either too small or too large); and they don't aggravate our allergies.

The only difference between what you call "designer dogs" and pure bred dogs is that the pure bred dogs were designed a long time ago.

[Obama2012]

91. I hope you adopted them from a shelter and didn't pay a backyard breeder mucho money for a mix

:)

[pnwmom]

97. Go ahead. Go to Petfinders and find a medium size (adult size in the 20-40 lb. range)

poodle mix under 6 months old anywhere in Washington or Oregon. You won't. We looked for more than 6 months and there was nothing.

We didn't use a backyard breeder, either. We used a responsible, experienced local labradoodle breeder who had completed extensive genetic testing on the parents and their forebears. So these "mutts" cost as much as purebreds. But unlike many purebreds (who are often bred in mills), these dogs are likely to live long healthy lives. Our older dog is 7 and our vet recently said that if he didn't know better, he'd think our dog was much younger.

We told the breeder that we didn't care about color or appearance in general -- we wanted the puppy that would be most likely to get along well with our older dog and fit into the family's activities. And the breeder did a great job of picking that puppy out. The odds of finding a puppy like that in a shelter are even smaller than finding a medium poodle mix in the first place.

[Obama2012]

98. No such thing as a "responsible" "designer" dog breeder

Sorry.

Too many mixes needing homes out there.

[hedgehog]

80. If I have a good natured dog and you have a good natured dog of similar

size, and both dogs are healthy and we know people who've asked for pups, how is that irresponsible breeding?

[pnwmom]

86. I agree. But on the one hand there are people who think companion dogs

shouldn't exist at all (the extreme PETA position) and, on the other, people who argue that only dogs from "official" breeds deserve to be preserved.

I suspect that vast majority of people would agree with you, however.

[Obama2012]

99. Plenty of good natured dogs dying right now

People who aren't breeding to better the breed (and I don't consider conformation bettering the breed) shouldn't breed. End of story.

[pnwmom]

14. Actually, the numbers are greatly overstated. Most of the animals who die in shelters

are CATS. And in some areas of the country, we have so few adoptable dogs that we are importing them to shelters here from Puerto Rico, and even from other countries.

[Obama2012]

27. I'm aware of the cat problem, but this thread is about dogs

And we import dogs from Puerto Rico because of the horrors those dogs face there, not because of a shortage of dogs. There are millions of adoptable dogs in this country. Look at Petfinder.

[pnwmom]

38. But the thread was also about animals dying in shelters, and most of the

animals dying in shelters are CATS, not dogs.

And in some areas of the country, dogs are imported because of a shortage of adoptable dogs, especially puppies and smaller dogs.

[flvegan]

8. Don't breed or buy while homeless animals die.

5-7 million each year, euthanized for lack of homes.

Screw the puppy mills and the dog breeders.

[pnwmom]

16. The vast majority of those are CATS. The rest are mostly older dogs. In much

of the country, there are very few adoptable puppies.

[flvegan]

17. That's a pretty uneducated post.

But, it is your right to post it.

[pnwmom]

18. You think so? Then show me the data. Otherwise, you're just blowing steam.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-01-30-dogs-usat_x.htm

Peluso is part of a trend: Animal shelters in the USA are casting a wide net — from Puerto Rico to as far as Taiwan — to fill kennels.

Critics say many shelters have solved the stray problem in their own area — but rather than shut down, they become de facto pet stores. Some charge more than $200 per adoption for imported dogs.

"Nobody's been watching this because nobody would have imagined that a hare-brained idea like this could ever get going," says Patti Strand, president of the National Animal Interest Alliance, a group that represents breeders, pet shop owners and others interested in animal welfare. "That's why there are no laws on the books."

In the last seven years, one organization in Puerto Rico has shipped more than 14,000 strays to the states for adoption. Shipments from other countries also appear to be increasing. Most imports are small to medium-size dogs popular among adopters.

Advocates of imports say their mission is to save street dogs, no matter where they are found, and to assist U.S. citizens who want to help homeless dogs.

SNIP

[flvegan]

19. What does your post have to do with what I said?

Yes, some shelters do import strays from other areas. Some go the Sato route. I don't deny that.

One thing that's funny though, is that the article seeks out Strand from the NAIA for a quote. Never a bigger animal hater than Patti Strand and her group of assholes. Animal welfare my ass from that lot.

[pnwmom]

20. Your post didn't say anything that was responsive.

The fact that the article used a quote from Strand shows that they were including different points of view. There were quotes from several others, including someone from the Tufts animal policy group, a couple of animal shelter directors, and a V.P. with the Humane Society.

[flvegan]

33. No, my post disagreed with your assertion

that the vast majority of the animals in shelters were cats and old dogs with very few puppies. I called it uneducated, and you went in another direction.

If discussion comprehension is a problem, I'll leave you to your fuming.

[pnwmom]

34. I didn't say "old dogs." I said "older." Two different meanings.

There ARE few puppies relative to non-puppies (adult dogs and cats) in shelters across the country. That's one reason why shelters have even begun to import puppies from other countries. (For example, I just checked the listings for Seattle/King County. There was only one available puppy 6 months or younger -- a pit bull/lab mix.)

But the original post wasn't even about the number of pets in shelters, but the numbers who are euthanized. "Don't buy while homeless animals die."

Many more cats are euthanized than dogs. There are more cats in shelters to begin with, and many fewer of them are adopted. Someone who wants a puppy isn't going to adopt a cat.

[Obama2012]

29. I don't see what the big deal is about a $200 adoption fee

The dog will come fixed and with shots. Sounds like a great deal to me.

[joeybee12]

23. Oh, Cats! Yeah, screw them...

...we can get rid of those.

[pnwmom]

25. No. But people who want a dog aren't going to get a cat instead. n/t

[undeterred]

9. No, plenty of people still do not spay or neuter

even when they don't want the animal to have offspring. Way too many animals are being put to death already, we don't need more.

[pnwmom]

10. There is another problem -- more and more inbreeding rather than

the mixes that used to be much more common.

[Obama2012]

30. There are plenty of mixes available at the shelter!

And good breeders don't inbreed.

[pnwmom]

39. And lots of those mixes were bred in puppy mills.

The mills are full of cockapoos, etc. And they have the health problems common to all puppy mills.

[Obama2012]

40. Personally, I think breeding "designer" dogs should be banned

It'd be easy enough to do by making all breeders get a license and not issuing licenses to people who breed mutts.

But back to the topic of your post, there are millions of mixes in shelters that aren't puppy mill cockapoos, labradoodles, etc.

[KurtNYC]

47. I think the word "mutt" is a loaded term -- it is like a canine form of racism

I know what you are refering to anyway. But IMHO there are simply dogs which conform well to AKC standards and dogs which do not.

The law is no more capable of banning designer dogs than it is of banning breathing.

[Obama2012]

49. Make breeders get licenses and don't license breeders of designer dogs

Easy enough. I don't think mutt is a canine form of racism. I've had mixed dogs. I called them mutts.

But the AKC isn't the end all be all of purebred dogs (thank God). My dogs are purebred and registered with a breed registry. The AKC version of the same breed is entirely different.

[pnwmom]

71. There is nothing about mixed breed dogs -- what you disparagingly call designer dogs --

that make them less worthy of being bred than pure bred dogs. In fact, the majority of pure bred dogs had their roots, long ago, in the combination of more than one type of dog.

Whether a dog should be bred or not all depends on the individual situation. The vast majority shouldn't, because the owners are not ready for the commitment involved. That's why my own dogs are neutered. But I don't think the current breed list should be set in stone for all time as the only dogs that may be bred. That's a very short-sighted idea and won't contribute to the health and well-being of dogs.

[pnwmom]

69. I absolutely don't. We have two wonderful mini-labradoodles that we purchased from

very careful breeders who had extensive genetic testing on the parents, grandparents, and beyond and raised the puppies in homes with great attention to their socialization and general well being.

The dogs are halfway in size between mini and Standard poodles and combine the best features of poodles and labs. They don't harm the "integrity of the breeds" by their very existence, and they are wonderful dogs in their own right.

[sinkingfeeling]

81. So you paid for two 'designer dogs' when you could have gotten a labador/poodle mix out

of almost any shelter of reasonable size? This 'craze' to have some well-bred mixture is one of the leading causes of puppy mills!

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192478

Many of the pups were "designer dogs"—trendy new breeds like puggles (which result when a pug is bred with a beagle), Maltepoos (a Maltese-poodle mix) and Chipins (a Chihuahua-pinscher cross). "It's market driven," says Melinda Merck, a forensic veterinarian who assisted with the Tennessee raid. "People just see a designer breed and say, 'I've never heard of that dog but it sounds cute'." And for puppy mills like this one, designer dogs—many of which sell for more than $1,000 apiece—have become a huge business.

[pnwmom]

83. Maybe where you live but not at all where I live. I looked for months before

we decided to buy. As of yesterday, there were only 4 dogs at King County Humane Society that were 1 year or younger. Three of them were pitbull mixes. Only one was under the age of 6 months. (And at the time we bought our first dog, I remember seeing an ad in the classified that read simply: " Two mixed breed puppies. $500 each."

Check pet finder.com if you don't believe me. Poodle mix puppies are rarely available in the Northwest (although soon there should be a bunch available from a closed down mill), and shelters don't like to ship puppies out of state.

[superduperfarleft]

13. I'd prefer that people stop treating other sentient creatures as commodities to be bought and sold

altogether. But that's just me.

[supernova]

15. Many official breeders

these days will specify whether a pup or kitten, for instance, is of breeding quality or pet quality.

If it's pet quality, often they want the new owner to have them spayed or neutered as part of the contract. I.e., they won't let you adopt the animal without this stipulation. The animals deemed breeder stock are then allowed to go to other breeders or are kept by the owner/breeder.

I'm not sure I agree with it, but that's AKC standard. I only know this because my SiL is all ga ga over AKC dogs. :eyes:

[Obama2012]

31. They do it with working dogs, too

Some dogs don't have the drive to be a good working dog, but they make fine pets. However, to preserve the integrity of the breed, you want them bred for working ability. So some get spay/neuter contracts even if they're a breed that will never see a show ring.

I don't disagree with that.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. Let me start with this. I have neutered my cats and my last dog. I also have encouraged friends to

do the same. Now what would happen if everyone did this now and say in 20 years there would be no more dogs or cats available that weren't bred by breeders and only available at exorbitant prices? What if?

[pnwmom]

24. Actually, an aim of PETA's founder is to completely end pet ownership. n/t

[Obama2012]

32. It will never happen

Feral populations will never be completely eradicated and no way everyone will spay/neuter their pets.

Too many people are too lazy or think that their dog is nice and healthy so it should have puppies.

[sinkingfeeling]

44. I've never NOT spayed or neutered any dog or cat I've had in the last 40 years and have

encouraged everybody I know to do the same. Still to see any big drop in the number of animals destroyed each year in this country.

[pnwmom]

67. There has been a significant drop in dog killings, but not in cats.

More people than ever own pets, more pet owners now own cats than dogs, and fewer cats are ever adopted. There are also more feral cats taken to shelters.

In many parts of the country unwanted litters of baby puppies are fairly rare now -- to the point where shelters are actually importing stray dogs and puppies from Puerto Rico, Mexico, and other countries.

There is also a controversy about why shelters continue to kill so many animals, when no-kill shelters have been proven successful in many areas.

[KurtNYC]

48. When I look at the price of an AKC french bulldog or a bichon

I don't think we have to wait 20 years to know the answer.

[sinkingfeeling]

53. Then get a purebred Bulldog or Bichon from a shelter or rescue group.

There are currently 649 Bichons available here: http://www.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?breed=Bichon+Frise&tmpl=&preview=1&exact=1&animal=Dog&preview=&zip=72701

and 139 French Bulldogs here: http://www.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?animal=Dog&breed=French%20Bulldog&preview=1&exact=1

[KurtNYC]

55. very very few of those are purebred

but my point is that the price of a purebred is determined by supply and the demand of breeders that those who buy their dogs NOT breed them keeps the price high. IMHO having a dog should not be about money or having a status symbol (thanks for nothing Paris Hilton) but about sharing your life with and providing a great life for a creature that will love you back 3x over.

[sinkingfeeling]

57. High quality breeders only ask that 'pet' quality pups not be bred. I think you're worrying about

conditions that won't be here for another 50, 60 or more years. Today there are millions of homeless dogs to choose from and the HSUS says that 25% of all shelter dogs are purebreds. Adoption costs continue to rise because the shelters are in constant need of expansion to accommodate the number of surrendered dogs/cats and ever increasing medical expenses for them.

[pnwmom]

90. And what percentage of shelter dogs are young puppies,

at their most trainable?

The vast majority are owner-relinquished because the owner couldn't manage them. That's the problem we should be working on.

[NashVegas]

64. From Reading Some of the Responses

It sounds like we're headed for sumptuary laws for dog ownership, doesn't it?

[pnwmom]

88. That's often just another way of getting a puppy mill dog. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

54. The price of pedigreed breeds just floor me and yet when I look back

20 years ago, I paid $500 for my Irish Terrier Maggie (she's been gone 5 years now). The big difference is, although the asking prices of these dogs have skyrocketed, wages in those 20 years haven't gone up proportionately. Even adoption fees on purebreds are ridiculous. I've seen them as high has $300 on Petfinder.

[sinkingfeeling]

56. That's because medical care, vaccinations, neutering, etc. has increased so much. Just like human

health care. The cost of providing flea and heart worm medication for a single dog over a year is now about $180.

[Obama2012]

60. That's because vet care/spay/neutering/training etc

Are all expensive these days.

[aikoaiko]

22. ban pets.

!

[Obama2012]

26. Wrong place

[Dappleganger]

35. You've got to be kidding, right?

Go read the pet section in your local Craigslist, take a look at the animals that are being whored out there and you'll see humanity at its worst.
Leave the breeding only to the best of breeders.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

36. We went from random abuse a couple decades ago

to institutional abuse created by all the new regulations.

[Obama2012]

41. Huh?

[Arkansas Granny]

50. I suspect that part of the puppy mill problem is due to what I call "breed snobbery".

Some people insist on owning a certain breed of dog (often one that is popular with certain celebrities) and they are willing to pay exorbitant prices. It's sort of a status symbol thing. Then the puppy mills kick into high gear to supply the demand for these popular breeds.

It's too bad that some are more concerned with the physical appearance of an animal than they are in the temperament and personality. There are so many mixed breed dogs that need good homes that would make wonderful companions and family pets.

[sinkingfeeling]

52. Yet burebred dogs make up around 25% of shelter dogs according to the HSUS.

[Arkansas Granny]

61. I wasn't aware that the percentage was that high.

[quiller4]

62. But less than 5% of owner surrenders. The higher percentage

is due to more aggressive action against puppy mills.

We adopted a purebred American Cocker from our local Humane Society. He and his mother wound up at the shelter when their owner died. The shelter staff gave me the percentages I quoted.

[Obama2012]

63. I don't believe that it's less than 5%

In the breed rescue I've dealt with, it's mostly owner surrended dogs, not puppy mill dogs.

[pnwmom]

84. A breed rescue is not a shelter. n/t

[pnwmom]

89. Most good breeders will rehome their own dogs, so they don't end up in shelters. n/t

[Myrina]

72. BINGO!

:applause: More than 'part' of the problem, in my opinion.

[dana_b]

74. yes - i've never understood that fascination with purebreds

all of our mutts have been excellent, even tempered and loads of fun. Of course we do live in a celebrity obsessed society. sigh. poor pups though. So many are killed because of our stupidity.

[buzzycrumbhunger]

85. WTF? Bad breeders are bad breeders

I have a neighbor who has had black lab puppies continually for the 20 years I've lived here--just one breeding pair, supposed family pets. I can't fathom that this is responsible pet ownership, and have seen more than one poor dog age very quickly and appear with astounding tumors that to me means they shouldn't be bred at all. I rescued a parrot once from a guy who had about a dozen Jack Russells caged in his yard, obviously breeding them for all he was worth--flea-bitten and probably confined to their 6 x 3 "runs" forever. This town is full of backyard breeders and to me, even one breeding pair can constitute a puppy mill.

I lost my Westie a few months back and finally reached the point where I needed to fill that hole in the family. I searched for MONTHS for a terrier mix, but even broadening my search to the entire state of FL and beyond, found it damned near impossible to find one. Why? The shelters are stuffed to the gills with pit bulls, Jack Russells, and a few labs--none of which interest me.

I started looking in the classifieds and found more of the same--in addition to a lot of lap dogs, also obviously produced by home breeders for profit. Not interested in a poodle, Maltese, or even a Yorkie, sorry.

I broadened my search to rescue groups and again struck out hugely. Did find one sweet little mix two hours away, but they demanded a lengthy application by committee, home inspections for three years, and a commitment to first take their training class (not free), in addition to paying all their dogs' accumulated vet bills. I was getting so desperate that I was actually considering this huge inconvenience and rigamarole. . .

First, I googled to see what legitimate terrier breeders I could find and what it might cost to go that route. Had to expand my search to the entire SE US and still found damned few legitimate breeders. Fell in love with the idea of a wire fox terrier (not that long ago one of the most popular breeds around) and discovered that I was talking between $1800 and 2500 for a dog that was "pet quality." WTF?

Clearly, something is very wrong with the system we have. Pet trade is driven by greed, not responsible breeding or reasonable efforts to place rescue animals. The glut of pit bulls (easily the largest percentage of abandoned dogs) is a whole 'nuther testament to the sorry state of society today, given that their popularity boomed with specific criminal activities (yes, I've heard the apologists who claim they make "wonderful" family pets, but where I come from, a pit bull is merely an indicator that someone has a drug business to protect or is into dog fights).

FWIW, after my months of effort to find the perfect dog, I stumbled across a classified for the sweetest little wire fox terrier--given away free after being neglected for months ("free" being a subjective term, seeing as how I've already spent almost $500 in vet bills putting him back together). Definitely happiest being able to rescue a dog than feeding into the for-profit crap--and just look at that smile!



Obviously, something needs to change because the pet trade is a mess from top to bottom, but to say backyard breeding is the answer is ludicrous. I don't see how the purebreds can maintain themselves without more responsible husbandry and clearly, far too many people aren't hearing the message about spaying/neutering and responsible pet ownership. Almost six months of cruising the shelter sites (and yes, the cats are heartbreaking, too), I was about ready to give up on humanity altogether.

[pnwmom]

87. Your story gives the lie to all the people who say how easy it is to find

the right dog at a shelter. You had to look for months, and you weren't even looking for a puppy. We had the same experience as you did, looking for a medium size poodle mix. Most of the time there are no poodle mix dogs (much less puppies) in WA or OR listed on Petfinders. And when they are available, the shelters have requirements that we couldn't fill, such as a fenced yard. (We have an unfenced acre and we walk our dogs.)

And yes, pit bulls and pit bull mixes are often the only puppies that are available. Yesterday, there were only four dogs under the age of one year at the Seattle Humane Society, and three of them were pit bull mixes.

[Naturyl]

92. I think you are on to something.

We got our latest dog from a neighbor who had a bunch of puppies to give away.

[BlueIdaho]

93. The answer is an end to the obsession with pure bred dogs.

The whole notion smacks of the victorian class system.

[Naturyl]

94. I agree with you.

I once got into an argument with my wife because I compared the pure breeding obsession to eugenics. She thought I was being absolutely ridiculous, but I stand by the comparison.

[BlueIdaho]

96. Seriously

This whole thing started in the victorian era where blood lines were important to upholding the social hierarchy. The obsession with royalty, power, and blood lines spread into the pets they owned. I wonder what would we call this if we were talking about human genealogy and social structure?

[mrs_p]

95. i think every breeder should be licensed by the state using federal standards

but my post actually has more to do with your dog's lung cancer. the vet said she got cancer b/c her breathing was difficult? that does not make much sense to me (as a second year vet student). was she brachycephalic, meaning did she have a short nose? it just seems to me that it would be the other way around - she had difficulty breathing b/c of the lung cancer. but, i'm not a vet yet, so what do i know?