There are a couple different versions of what happened to Gates

[proud2BlibKansan]

Obama said he had forgotten his key. Gates' lawyer said he had his key but the lock was broken. But that part of the story doesn't matter. The important part is he was arrested AFTER he had proven he lived there. So he was arrested in his own house. For being rude to the cop, or whatever they decided to call it.

Bottom line - that cop is a public servant. Part of his job is to deal with people in upsetting situations. And I think we can all agree it would be upsetting to find a cop in our house accusing us of being a burglar.

I too am a public servant. I am a teacher. If I could arrest every parent (or student) who was rude to me I would fill a jail. But the people I work for teach us to be public servants and remember 'customer service'. Does that mean we have to take it when we are treated with disrespect? No not really, that is the principal's job. But we are definitely told we don't respond the way this cop did to Gates.

One of the first times a parent went off on me the principal told me to remember I was being paid to be a public servant and the parent was not.

The really sick unmentioned aspect of this whole story is the disease of institutional racism. Institutional racism was what prompted that neighbor to call the cops and report a black man breaking into a house. It is the reason police practice racial profiling. It is the reason we are taught to believe from an early age that black men are more likely to engage in criminal behavior than white men. It is the reason many communities have invisible geographic boundaries between black and white neighborhoods. It is a disease and until we deal with it as a society, black men like Gates will continue to be unfairly profiled as likely criminals.

So I don't think it matters if Gates had his keys or not. What really matters is a cop walked into his house and AFTER he knew who Gates was and that he did indeed live there, he arrested him anyway. That is the story here.

[Chemisse]

1. I have been playing devil's advocate here on this story

But what you said really cuts to the chase. It doesn't matter how rude Gates was, rudeness is not a crime.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Yep. And dealing with upset folks is part of a cop's job

Bottom line.

[seabeyond]

26. exactly. they are conditioning us that we must all bow our heads, lower our eyes, become

subservient to them regardless.

i dont see that as a requirement to being a citizen in the u.s.

IF i chose to be pissed at something, without violence, then i get to.

[malaise]

3. That is the story here.

Actually the real story is that the cop violated the professor's constitutional rights.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. My school has the police training academy as a community partner

The recruits at the academy come and do community service in our school. It's a requirement in their training. And it blows my mind how many of these cops are white kids in their early 20s from small towns who admit they have never known any people of color. The kids in our school are the first minorites they have spent any time around. And they are in training to become cops in a large city with a large minority population. Hopefully they learn to treat all people fairly before they are put out on the street.

[CTyankee]

15. This is a problem. Even in liberal communities we seem to want to hire

a lot of white guys who live in their own ethnic enclave. This is why it is SO important to have racial diversity on our police force and in our Fire Depts. White cops learn from their black coworkers. Both face similar situations all the time and over time the white cops/firefighters learn something about people who have a different background than they do.

[dysfunctional press]

18. which constitutional rights were violated?

[Solomon]

20. His right to free speech in his own fucking home.

The cop here committed false arrest, false imprisonment, defamation, all under color of state rights.

[dysfunctional press]

22. ...

:eyes:

[Blue_Roses]

30. he wasn't read his Miranda Rights for starters...

:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

34. which constitutional amendment covers that?

and is there reason to believe that he isn't aware of what his miranda rights are?
think about it from a legal perspective, not a tv cop-drama one.

:eyes: :eyes:

[Cha]

37. How did he do

that, Malaise?

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. The cop is an idiot and needs to be retrained

Once Gates proved that he owned the house, the cops should have left.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Bingo

Cop turned it into a power struggle.

[Nye Bevan]

17. Retrained? How about fired?

I won't believe that Boston is serious about dealing with this kind of disgraceful racist behavior until this guy is fired.

[negativenihil]

27. Boston?! Try Cambridge. n/t

[hughee99]

47. If a police office gets a call about a breaking and entering,

shows up at the house, and the owner is home, does that mean no break-in occurred and the cop should leave immediately? Is it possible that someone else is in the house without the owner's knowledge, or threatening the owner to get rid of the cop? I'm not trying to defend the police officer's arrest, but there are reasons the cop may not have just turned around and left.

[MrBig]

94. Now hold on a second

You mean to tell me that the cop might have been trying to do his job?

By the way, I think your post is one of the most intelligent on the subject I've read thus far on this site.

[asthmaticeog]

7. Good post, and point well taken, but I think the differences between cops & teachers

outweigh the similarities. Teachers aren't part of an insular, us-vs-them professional culture. A teacher's word isn't taken as prima facie truth on every witness stand in the country. Nobody can go to a scary-ass urban jail on invented charges of "Resisting a Lesson." I could go on, but the point I'd be getting around to is that while there are certainly SOME power-tripping, bullying teachers (on edit: just wanted to be clear that in my experience those have been very, very few), they aren't in a workplace culture that all but guarantees that one becomes a power-tripping bully and never gets called out on it, let alone punished for it. Yes, they're public servants too, police are, but they're given EVERY opportunity to avoid behaving as such.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. So are cops

They are not expected to behave like a power-tripping bully.

[seaglass]

9. And you are creating yet another version - join the crowd. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Huh?

How so?

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Ummmm......

Three Observations:

(1) It is unfortunate that people are sometimes profiled and judged based on their appearance. Those judgments may reflect stereotypes based on race, nationality, sexual preference, gender, or socio-economic status. I know someone who drives an old but well cared for jalopy. She has family that live in an elite neighborhood. Virtually every time she visits them she is stopped on some pretext and questioned by police regarding her presence there. She's an elderly retired white woman who lives frugally. But she is suspect nonetheless just because of her choice in transportation.

(2) If my neighbors observe someone they do not recognize trying to break into my home I hope they call the police and report it. I hope they call while the event is occurring. I think most homeowners share that view. If I did find it necessary to break into my own home I would be grateful to be confronted by a quick police response. Even if I wasn't grateful I would be mindful that the cop confronting me has a gun and the ability to arrest me and haul my ass off to jail. I'd at least pretend to be respectful. No need to inflame an already tense situation. Police presence may be an additional hassle and inconvenience to me. However, until my identity is known to the responding officer I am potentially a criminal caught red handed with the capacity for violence.

(3) I make an effort to know my neighbors. I wave to them. I speak to them when opportunity presents itself. I attend neighborhood meetings. I have met everyone that lives on my street. Indeed, I have been invited into most of their homes. That was true when I lived in one of our nation's largest metropolitan areas. And it is true here in this smaller metropolitan area of a million or so folks. If one thing is apparent in this story it is that the good professor's neighbors did not recognize hime or know that he lived in the neighborhood. And that may have more to do with them than with him. Still it is a reflection of the fragmentation within our society and our loss of community. We don't know each other - which makes it difficult to understand differences and leads to further polarization.

Frankly, I'd find it a whole lot easier to have some empathy for the professor if he hadn't been rude to the cop and immediately made racial accusations. Or if I could somehow think he wasn't smart enough to know that at least pretending to be respectful in the heat of a potentially dangerous situation just might be a good idea. Pretending to be respectful, after all, does not preclude the possibility of confronting any racial issues after the fact when cooler heads typically prevail. If what the professor alleges is indeed true then IMHO the professor did not handle the situation any better than the cop who confronted him. As for the neighbor, well, perhaps some introductions are in order.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. And being a black man

would entitle me to conduct muyself differently?

That in and of itself is a racist belief.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. 1. I agree. Happens way too often

2. If you aren't a black man, I don't think it's fair to compare how you think you would react to how Gates reacted. The only comparison I can make is I am pulled over when driving to and from work because I have out of county plates and there are several drug houses in the area where I work. It is unnerving. And it is also hard to be polite and respectful to a cop who assumes I am only in his neighborhood to buy drugs. I have indeed called and complained several times about this profiling. But I am a white woman and am always treated with respect once the cop realizes I am not a druggie. I doubt that is true for a black man.

3. Did the neighbors make an effort to get to know Gates? Until we know that we can't really say much about this particular neighborhood.

[Coyote_Bandit]

16. There are not different standards

of what does and does not constitute acceptable conduct depending on race (or gender or nationality or religious belief or sexual orientation or any other suspect classification). Perpetuating such an attitude is racist (discriminatory) in and of itself.

And, yes, we can conclude that the neighborhood was something less than a community. The observation was that the neighbors clearly didn't recognize one another. Doesn't much matter who didn't take the iniative.

[cbdo2007]

39. But it didn't help that Gates accused the cop of being racist right off the get-go.

In your experience, if right when the cop comes to your window you said first thing, "what you think cause I'm a woman in a bad part of town that I'm some drug addict?" then you're throwing the first punch.

Obviously, Gates shouldn't have been arrested but also he needs to learn how to have a civil conversation with someone who is protecting and serving his community, like you do when you're pulled over.

The cop certainly overreacted AFTER the initial exchange but is no more of a racist than Gates is. Would Gates have said the same statement to a black cop?

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. I did say that to the last cop who pulled me over

As soon as he walked up to my car, he said "Good afternoon" and I said "Why did you pull me over?" He said "because there are drug houses in the area and you don't live around here". So I said "So just because I am a white woman from another county you assume I am here to buy drugs?" (The neighborhood is largely Hispanic and African American). He said "Just doing my job, maam" And I said "And you don't know that people actually WORK in this neighborhood" Then I showed him my work ID and he apologized and thanked me for teaching the kids in the community.

It was actually a very pleasant conversation. But I did begin by challenging him for assuming I was in the neighborhood to buy drugs.

And I didn't get arrested. But then I am a white woman.

[cbdo2007]

55. Proven corrected. Sorry...

So this was on the Kansas Side like in KCK?

I'm on the Missouri side and used to drive downtown to Hallmark every day through some rough and tumble neighborhoods, and there are plenty of other times where I've had to drive through some neighborhoods where I was out of place on the Missouri side. I'm a white male and have never been pulled over in these areas. If I ever am though I am keeping my mouth shut and doing whatever they say and answering whatever they ask :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Nope it was in KCMO

And it kind of surprised me each time I was pulled over. The cops in KCMO are usually too busy dealing with real crime to harass Jo Co drivers.

[Gormy Cuss]

63. I know Gates's neighborhood.

It's not the kind of place that holds block parties. Many of the residences are large multi-unit buildings that house students or others affiliated with Harvard. Some may be condos now. There are a few houses that may or may not be in use as single family units because many in this area have been chopped up into condos. Gates and many others in the area are living in Harvard-owned housing.

[Nye Bevan]

19. Sorry, I don't believe (1)

I have lived in many different places and I cannot believe there is *any* neighborhood where the police stop virtually every old, well-cared for car that drives through, even if the driver is white.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. It happens where I live

Especially if that old car has out of county plates. I see it several times a week.

[seabeyond]

29. how skewed youa re that you place burden on citizen and no burden on the "tense" cop

i think the cop has some ownership in discipline in a tense situation...

but hey

that seems to be the time past

[Coyote_Bandit]

49. Ummmm......

Perhaps you should re-read my post. I made no comment as to what was or was not appropriate behavior on the part of the cop.
Undoubtedly, the cop could have handled the situation differently. For both better and worse. The same can be said of the citizen in question. After all, it could be argued that the mouthy disrespectful professor who is particularly well versed in the history and politics of racial discrimination was actually trying to provoke a racial confrontation.

[seabeyond]

52. and the cop, the one being paid, the professional law enforcement, the one trained

it is his JOB to know how to handle this, not that ole disrespectful citizen that knows and educated adn experienced in the abuse of police over time, especially when it comes to race

[Coyote_Bandit]

64. And this particular citizen

happens to be well educated and versed in the history and politics of racial discrimination. He should have been well aware that his commentary was potentially incindiary. It is possible to question, to challenge and to offer explanation and evidence without accusing someone of being a racist. It is also possible to seek redress of wrongs after they occur.

By all accounts I have read/heard it was the professor who raised the issue of race. Why? Did he attribute racist (anti-black) motives to the cop because of his own racist (anti-white) attitudes? Was he intentionally trying to escalate what should have been a fairly routine police call into a racial confrontation? I prefer to think he was tired, jet lagged and grumpy. Still I wonder if the professor would have treated a black cop making the same request in the same manner.

It is interesting to note that no one is making allegations of the cop violating any specific procedure. I fail to see anything the least bit inappropriate in the cop asking the professor to identify himself after the professor had attempted to break into his own home. How the hell was the cop supposed to know who the professor was and whether he had the right to be in that house?

[seabeyond]

67. doesnt amtter. citizen is allowed to express even if cop doesnt like it.

doesnt matter.... does not matter... if the civilian thinks and expresses that it is racial profiling. he is ALLOWED to say it, without arrest.

[Coyote_Bandit]

89. There is a big difference between

having the right to say something and having the discipline to choose ones words.

There is a reason for advising folks to think before they speak.

[seabeyond]

92. nto only a difference, totally two different things without relevence. a huge wtf??? n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

95. ?????

I had the freedom to tell my last boss that he was sexist, ignorant and incompetent with respect to many of his job functions. I had the discipline to keep my fucking mouth closed.

There has to be a balance between freedom of speech and the discipline to chose ones words. The two are related. Regardless of whether you recognize it or not. The legal right to say whatever one wants (although there are limits on free speech) does not mean that the speech is a particularly good idea. Every parent has the legal right to tell their kids that they will grow up to be failures. But perhaps they would do well to hold their tongue.

Likewise, the professor had the right to say whatever the fuck he wanted. But IMHO his choice of speech escalated the situation. It was stupid of the professor to verbalize racial accusations during the confrontation. I could care less whether you agree.

[seabeyond]

97. this is not a compatible argument. it doesnt matter if he spoke out, he is allowed, so no arrest

for it. it doesnt matter who thinks he should have kept his mouth shut. he stills does not get arrested for it. it doesnt matter if you think the worst of him, he still does not get arrested for it.

doesnt matter. not a point to the argument.

he probably doesnt give a rats ass what you think about him, or i or anyone else. he still does not get arrested for it

the cop was WRONG

the blame in no way gets shifted to gates. the COP was WRONG

[Coyote_Bandit]

98. He was non-compliant

It was not at all out of line for the cop to ask the professor to identify himself. Nor was it out of line for the cop to ask him to step outside. That is pretty standard police procedure. Protects them both if there is someone hiding in the house. Prevents the occupant from grabbing a hidden weapon to use against the cop. Takes the confrontation outside into the light of day where it can be observed. Maybe the professor didn't want to be observed outed his home being questioned by police. Maybe he didn't understand that the request to step outside is routine procedure (although anybody who has watched a few episodes of Cops has had ample opportunity to figure that one out). The professor refused to comply and started spouting offensive speech and accusations. The professor was the one who escalated what should have been a fairly routine police call. Stupid. Just fucking stupid. Or maybe the product of a sheltered academic life cloistered in the study of racial injustice. Could it be possible that those 40 years of academic study of racial injustice influenced and colored the professors perception of the events that unfolded? I'd prefer to think not - but it is not inconceivable. If you think someone is out to get you then you just might magnify the noises you hear and you just might see things in the shadows. Lots of stupid surrounding this incident. The professor is lucky the cop didn't taze him - an out of control cop would have done just exactly that.

[Alameda]

45. How was the professor rude? He identified himself as the

homeowner...he requested ID from the officer, who did not comply?

[cbdo2007]

48. You think the accusers can demand ID from the cop before showing ID themselves?

That's what I'm worried about here. We don't want there to be real circumstances with either white or black officers or white or black suspects, where we give suspects any amount of leeway before they are found to not be suspects any longer. The burdon of proof needs to be on the suspect first, and on the officer second.

I agree that the cop was wrong to arrest Gates after the initial confrontation, but it is our responsibility as citizens to attempt to be as helpful as possible in diffusing a mistaken identity situation as quickly as possible.

Again, we don't want to have situations in the future where cops are afraid to follow through with their investigation due to racial charges being thrown at them, nor do we want criminals to try to use racial charges against cops unfairly to provoke a social outcry to get them off the hook when they are truly breaking the law.

[seabeyond]

51. the problem is.... it has been too long of this "I agree that the cop was wrong to arrest Gates"

there are too too too many times where the cops abuse. and there is no repercussions. the higher ups feed this, dont set boundaries, allow it to be

i said a decade ago, the cops NEED our support with continual abuse they will lose all of it. if they treat us all like animals, then that is what we will become.

this disrespect you speak of, that you say we need to avoid was manifested by the cops themselves. and ONLY they will be able to correct and heal. that will never happen, and will just continue to get worse, the more this is allowed to fester and grow and feed by no boundaries for our cops.

[cbdo2007]

57. I agree also that the cops need to change their ways.

There need to be strict penalties for cops who do this and THAT burden does fall on the cops and their management and eventually the mayor. I know that this is a problem and am not excusing the cop for arresting Gates, he shouldn't have done that...

BUT

It's a two way street. The cops aren't the only ones who need to correct and heal when they are investigating a questionable situation they have been called to and the suspect starts accusing the cop of being a racist. The situation as a whole will never get better without some work on BOTH sides.

[seabeyond]

66. the cop is paid, trained a professional. part of his job. not civilians job to be polite

yes... it is the cops position to do something about exclusively. and if the cops have boundaries and doesn't treat all like criminals first and doesn't abuse power, then the shift happens and people will start supporting and respecting them. this did not happen over night

i am a almost 50, white, upper middle class, law abiding (for the most part, lol) woman. everything about me should place me strongly in support of our police. i dont. i tell my children that they are not to trust the police. there is something wrong in our culture that someone like me is telling my children cold hard facts about the police so they will better be able to deal with them. as far as i see with my kids, here and now, they are respectful, law abiding citizens and i see no reason for that to change.... BUT

i dont trust the cops

if it is like that in this home, then you can damn well bet it is in more homes that are having more prejudices directed at them, more validation and justification to not trust our police

our police created it. they will have to fix it. i am more than happy to support and help them if the intent is there.

[seabeyond]

56. sounds like your facts are wrong. he provided proof who he was first.

And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.

Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.

So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

[cbdo2007]

60. I guess the question is, what was the mystery question the cop asked...

"So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint"

And why did Gates refuse to answer it? If the cop is currently looking at his ID to determine if it is legit, Gates shouldn't be a hinderance, he should be helpful just like I would try to be in a similar situation. White or Black, cop or suspect, the suspect always needs to prove themself and answer any questions asked first. There is plenty of time to file a complaint afterwards, but not during the exact time that the officer is in the act of trying to even identify who you are when they are responding to a 911 call of questionable activity.

[seabeyond]

65. now you are shifting and huntin. IF the cop knew he did not "break in" all other questions

are irrelevant. there is no cause of possible crime. he no longer has to talk to the cop at all. the cop no longer has any questions to ask. people say.... why do you care if all your rights are taken away, IF you arent doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.

that isnt the way it works

[npk]

79. Read the police report

The cop asked repeatedly for ID before Gates showed it to him. Gates was not compliant from the start. The officer told Gates his name and his badge number is on his fucking badge. HELLO.

[LiberalAndProud]

23. Why didn't the officer identify himself? Isn't that a requirement?

Gates asked repeatedly for a name and badge number -- after he had identified himself as a University Professor.

"But at that point, I realized that I was in danger. And so I said to him that I want your name, and I want your badge number and I said it repeatedly."
http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

[ljm2002]

24. I only have one quibble...

...You said:

"Institutional racism was what prompted that neighbor to call the cops and report a black man breaking into a house."

That is the only part of what you said that I disagree with. While racism may have played a role, we don't know that at all. There really were two men on the front porch trying to break in, no one disputes that. So for a neighbor to call out of concern is not outside the realm of reasonable behavior, IMO.

[hiphopnation]

25. agree

Obama does too...

[seabeyond]

31. IF you dont know your neighbor and they are standing on front porch, trying to get in, daylite

why would you assume a theft. the times in my neighborhood that things like this crop up, we generally address, chat, then get to know.

the odds of it being a break in, dress, age, mannerism and so much more would have suggested to neighbor not a break in. hence the "Institutional racism".

[quiller4]

33. That is true. If I saw a neighbor struggling to get in to his own

house, I'd offer help; not call the police. I can't tell you how many times I've pried open windows to get into my own house.

[seabeyond]

43. now i read the driver had brought up three bags from car. man was on trip.

even more clear the people on the porch belonged.

[AuntPatsy]

28. I agree completely.....

[tj2001]

32. The unthinking worship and lionization of law enforcement is sickening and stupid

More roofers and construction workers die every year on the job and they don't get a state funeral and lifetime goodies for their families. The occupational hazard for cops is grossly exaggerated - they shoot you dead first - and at a safe distance - 99.9% of the time.

[dysfunctional press]

35. the unthinking hatred and derision is equally insipid.

99.9% of the time, cops are doing their jobs without incident.

[lexanman]

76. The only point

is the cop arrested Gates on a bogus charge AFTER the cop knew his identity. This will go to court and rightfully so. The cop escalated the situation when he should have left.

The apologizers on here refuse to acknowledge that, but a court will.

[dysfunctional press]

96. i think that the cop was acting correctly up to a point-

once he knew that gates was in his own house, that should have been the end of it- the cop should be able to understand that someone could get grumpy over being confronted by the police in their own home- even though they SHOULD realize that the cop is just doing his job. i don't know how indignant gates got with the cop over the racism stuff- but the cop should have said 'goodnight, sir' and left.

[Cha]

36. I'm going to go out on a limb

here and say I think the cop was having an ego problem..the onus was on him to diffuse the situation since he was in Gates' home after mistaking him for a burgler and the ID was shown to be valid.

[seabeyond]

38. onus was on him to diffuse the situation. exactly. as much of his job as stopping the burglary. nt

[Cha]

41. "Burglary" should be

in parentheses.

[seabeyond]

44. k.

but was talking more a whole in job description, not this particular event of assumed "burglary", lol

[Cha]

46. k

:)

[Iggo]

40. There's a couple of different versions of the age of the Earth, too.

But one of 'em's complete bullshit.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

50. The officer reportedly started off badly by asking Gates to step outside. SKIP THAT!!

[aikoaiko]

54. As I understand it.

The neighbor who called the police acted reasonably.

The police officer showing up and demanding proof of residency was reasonable.

Walking inside the house was reasonable give the charge burglary as Gates went to retrieve his wallet. (this is where stories diverge)

But its at this point that the police officer really needed to change gears and back off even if Gates was loud, rude, and insulting (which I'm not even sure he was).

If there were other concerns about the legitimacy of Gates being there (restraining order, evicted from premises) then the officer should have been discreet and circumspect.

I still don't know if I have a clear understanding of what happened (and probably never will), but unless Gates was hostile or threatening, the police officer should have given Gates his card and simply walked away.

[HughMoran]

58. Agreed. And thank you for having the patience to type this up with proper perspective

This story makes me so mad and reminds me of all the bullshit I saw in the inner city where I grew up in the mid '70's. Once our car was surrounded by cops with drawn guns pointing in the windows based on a false identification. Lucky nobody was shot then. Cops used to routinely pick up known druggies and beat them behind the knees and dump them in a dangerous part of town where they could easily have been killed. Cops were people we all knew and they were as intimidated by "others, not like them" as anybody in the city. These people rought their prejudices to thier jobs just like any other person does, except they carry a gun. OJ would have been rightfully convicted of murder if it wasn't for a stupid cop and his prejudices. I personally like cops, but they're not all "good".

[MellowDem]

59. If Gates called the cop a racist...

simply for asking for his ID, then I have no sympathy for Gates in this situation and no respect for him as a scholar either. That pretty much blows all his credibility with me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. IF he called him a racist, I would assume it was because the cop thought Gates was a burglar

in his own house. And I agree that would make the cop a racist.

[MellowDem]

69. Well, we will have to assume until the the facts come out... nt

[LisaL]

72. There was a report about two people trying to break into the house.

What exactly is the cop supposed to assume?

[seabeyond]

74. simple. asked for id, got it, should have left.

instead he questioned the man and he refused to answer question. why? cause cop had no reason to ask him a damn thing. a thank you and walk away when he knew it was his home. then gated asks for cop id and number and the tif began. why? cause the cop was ready for a fight.

[seabeyond]

75. simple. asked for id, got it, should have left.

instead he questioned the man and he refused to answer question. why? cause cop had no reason to ask him a damn thing. a thank you and walk away when he knew it was his home. then gated asks for cop id and number and the tif began. why? cause the cop was ready for a fight.

[seabeyond]

68. regardless if you respect him, you do get it dont you that it is not against the law for people to

speak.

because you dont respect him or have no sympathy.... it is NOT an arrestable offense.

[MellowDem]

70. I don't think it was worth an arrest if he did that...

personally.

[seabeyond]

71. then what is your point. you dont have to like, sympathize, or respect to know it was wrong

and that is all that matters. as i read it cop asked for id. he gave it. then cop went on to question him even though he had info needed to know there was no crime, it was his home. right there cop fucked up. then gates asked for his id, his name and cop refused a number of times. at that point gates may have said it, but who cares

cop should have been gone by now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. Bingo

Cop turned it into a power struggle.

[seabeyond]

77. he did. and why people dont get it, i dont get. simple. asked for id, knew his home, done with call

it isnt a tough one. and i would have not answered the cops questions any further either. i would have been a bet pissed too if a neighbor called it in when middle of day, at front door, and bags sittin there. pretty obvious NOT a burglar

[npk]

78. The cop never accused Gates of being a burglar

He was only trying to ascertain if Gates was the resident. Gates was the one who made that assumption, not the cop. And if the police report is correct Gates continued the altercation outside in front of 7 witnesses and that was why he was arrested. Again if the police report is deemed to be wrong, then I fine. But unless the officer has a history of lying, then I would have to say it is accurate, since it is against the law to file a bogus police report, and the witnesses at the s scene could easily cause the officer to be fired for such a thing.

[seabeyond]

80. asked for id, got it, done with call. but cop went on to question him, refused to give id

and name which escalated it.

[npk]

83. Um the cop was leaving, when Gates followed him outside

Again this is according to the police report.

The officer asked Gates to step outside, Gates initially refused. The officer stated that he went outside and that when Gates followed him outside, in the presence of two other minority officers and continued and further berated the officers in the presence of several other witnesses. But don't worry about the facts getting in the way of another great story about how evil and racist those fucking white men who carry badges are.

[seabeyond]

84. he followed cause, at the door asked for cop id and name a number fo times

and the cop refused to give the name and badge number. a cop has to provide. cop did wrong. gates wanted name and badge number and cop refused....

quit playing with the facts for your agenda purposes

[npk]

86. You are the one playing with the facts

I am typing straight from the report. Gates got upset and followed the officer outside. Gates could have handled the situation several different ways. Gates could fled a formal complaint if he felt that the officer did not provide that info in which the cop says he did provide. Instead Gates let his anger get the best of him and he followed the officer outside and was arrested for disorderly conduct. I am not saying D/O was not a bullshit charge. But you can't say the officer violated the law when he clearly did not.

[seabeyond]

87. it isnt gates job... it is the COPS. i read the report. the cops intent was to arrest

get him outside to arrest. you can read it in the report. he wasnt playing it straight and it is god damn obvious.

it is NOT gates job to coddle the cops.

it is the cops job to tone things down. to be professional. he is paid. he is trained. and his report alone shows he was on a trip. HE abused his power

[mnhtnbb]

81. 4th Amendment to the Constitution--read it here

“ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ”

This is why the officer wanted Gates to step outside. The guy can't be arrested in his own home without
a legitimate warrant.

[Fire1]

82. ...

[Gothmog]

85. Here is a link to the actual police report by Crowley

Here is a link to the police report by Sgt. Crowley. http://www.bluemassgroup.com/upload/david/gates_incident_report_redacted.pdf

[seabeyond]

88. i read it. cop intent on arresting him outside and clear. led him out to arrest him. cop isnt

playing it straight even in reading police report you hear it. so all his stuff is crap

[LisaL]

90. Hah?

He didn't make Dr. Gates to follow him.

[seabeyond]

93. no shit. he also did not answer the man, turned and walked out telling him he

would have to walk out to get his answer. then arrested the man. so???

you are going to defend. say it doesnt matter. the cop was not playing it straight, playing a fuckin game to arrest an innocent man. a man the cop knew was innocent. that is ABUSE of power and it is wrong.

[depakid]

91. We already know enough of the salient facts to figure out what was going on here