I have held a Virginia concealed carry permit for several years.

[11 Bravo]

I have never had to use it. The last time I shot anyone was 1971, and your tax dollars paid me to do it. I would like to be able to carry my hand gun when we travel up and down the East coast. I know how to use it, and it is solely for the protection of my family. Yet, I am conflicted by the Thune amendment, and ultimately come down in favor of its defeat.
You see, I know that I don't pose a threat. But the fact remains that not only are there whack jobs in this country, there are also whack job state legislatures, and some of those bodies would vote to provide a concealed carry permit to anyone, on demand, in fealty to some insane reading of the Second Amendment; and I don't want yahoos from those jurisdictions packing heat in my neighborhood.
As I say, I'm conflicted, but I believe the Senate ultimately made the correct decision.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. I have a permit to carry a deadly weapon in Virginia -

and in every other state in the Union.

My Bar card...................

[N7255Q]

2. Some day all state legislatures and the U.S. Congress will discover that only you should have

that right. Waiting for it is a bitch, isn't it?

[cliffordu]

9. Kind of a clownish response but that's OK, you'll learn. Maybe.

Welcome to DU. Maybe.

[11 Bravo]

11. I already have that right, but only in the state in which I met the criteria to obtain it.

And your response makes no sense at all.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

3. Freepers are the conceal carry whackos that scare me. Because they are proffesional haters.

[sharesunited]

4. Trust your instincts. It would have made a bad problem worse.

And as confident as you are in your own self control, just remember that your sanity at all times dangles by the thinnest of threads.

Look in the mirror. The only thing that separates you from a whack job is brain chemistry, which is in a constant state of flux.

[Pavulon]

dupe

dupe

[Pavulon]

7. Sounds like he has a pretty stable background

your expectation is that the 2nd amendment goes away. Please go work for that cause You can work on overturning brown v board of education too. good luck with that.

[sharesunited]

19. I support racial equality. I don't support convenient killing power in the hands of the public.

[eqfan592]

21. Then you don't support cars.

And if you don't think a car doesn't have a lot of "convenient kill power", then you're in dream land.

[sharesunited]

24. Cars are not designed or intended to kill. Quite different from guns.

And your presence on the streets and highways of this nation is a consensual assumption of the risk.

Compare to bullets enter your body.

[eqfan592]

26. Ah, but you said nothing about the INTENTION of the design.

Only that they contain convenient kill power. Now you're saying you have no problem with people using items that aren't originally designed to kill but still contain a lot of convenient kill power as killing instruments?

[sharesunited]

30. Convenience to kill? Convenience to transport perhaps. With death and injury inadvertant.

[eqfan592]

32. A large chunk of metal and plastic...

...traveling at high speeds right next to crowded sidewalks. Nope, no potential convenient kill power there! :sarcasm:

Maybe you don't understand that many more objects besides those you loath contain large quantities of what you call "convenient kill power." Or, you're as I suspected earlier, a troll who doesn't really care about little things like "facts" and will continue to deny that something like a car could ever be used to intentionally do harm to a group of people.

The point is that even IF you got your way, there will still be no lack of "convenient kill power" in the world. And frankly, I would rather avoid the type of "padded room" society you are attempting to create.

[11 Bravo]

40. Wow, almost three weeks in and already slinging around the "troll" label.

Very precocious.

[eqfan592]

43. Perhaps, but before you pass judgement...

...you should see his other posts.

Anybody who considers the drowning of children a "tidy" way to kill that should be "obvious" to anyone just stinks of troll.

EDIT: and for the record, only 3 weeks in HERE is more appropriate. I've hung out on enough internet forums to get a feel for the people who are serious, and a feel for the people who are just trying to start trouble. I could be wrong about shares, but we shall see.

[safeinOhio]

42. I think you'll find the CCW carriers

have saved way more innocent lives than they have taken. Sorry, those are the facts.

[Mythsaje]

35. And that applies to pedestrians too?

If you leave your house you're accepting the risk? Seems a bit callous when you look at it like that.

[Pavulon]

22. pain killers, 5 gallon buckets,cigs, or fried chicken, beer, and being lazy

heart disease is a motherfucker. Killing people at a tremendous clip. Better get busy banning some shit.

[sharesunited]

25. Assumption of the risk. Compare to bullets entering your body.

[Pavulon]

28. Small fraction of handgun shootings are fatal..

around 1 in 10. being fat, drunk, and lazy will kill you every time.

[sharesunited]

31. Why do you want to turn a blind eye to the wounding?

Pain and suffering.

Crippling. Paralyzing.

Amputation.

An ostomy bag for life.

[Pavulon]

36. the horror, the horror.. we must stop KFC

they are visiting an apocalypse on america. McDonalds is killing millions. I can not rest until all cars are banned, ban it all by god.

Seriously, address mental health, make it available and free and overhaul drug law and fix the problem. That takes real work, not just fucking around with people who opt to follow gun law. The guy who blows your brains out is not that concerned with that law.

Why the fuck do you think there is a teeny tiny fraction of gun crimes in armed nations like switzerland and canada? KFC again?

Or just push gun control as a fix, and be labeled as a flaming moron who cant tell his asshole from his ear hole..

[eqfan592]

39. lol, I hope this post doesn't get deleted, because seriously...

...it's awesome!

:toast:

[Pavulon]

41. As long as posts are not attacking others

or otherwise out of line they dont get deleted. Everyone I have had nuked, in hindsight, was clearly over the line. Being a sarcastic jackass is accepted.

[eqfan592]

45. I recently had a post deleted...

...for recommending someone place another user on ignore that they were in VERY heated "discussion" with as it would be easier on their blood pressure. Actually, to be more accurate, I said I felt the other person was bad for their blood pressure. I didn't think that was a real personal attack (and judging by the way the "discussion" was going, I think my statement was accurate) but you never know. I'm also fairly new here, so I haven't really learned exactly how the mods decide when a post should be deleted. I know the rules are posted, and I have read them, but mods do always stick too those rules in every case, and each forum usually has it's own "feel." I'm still trying to learn the "feel" of the forum here.

[11 Bravo]

47. Now I'm curious. Ever shot anyone?

[Pavulon]

50. No.

was never deployed to anywhere that required shooting at anyone. Thankfully.

I did accidentally kill an opossum that had made a home on the motor of an M88. I also had to clean that up.

[11 Bravo]

53. I envy you. 38 years later, I still have nightmares.

[Pavulon]

56. I really do wish you the best.

not much I can add to that.

[11 Bravo]

34. Two words for you: Glenn Beck.

The weepy, slobbering, demonstrably nuts Beck has stated that he likes to carry his weapon into movie theaters. If he sits behind you, you better make sure you have your cell phone turned off, because when Glenn misses the dialog from his favorite scene in "Red Dawn", he gets royally pissed.

[Mythsaje]

37. Are they still showing Red Dawn IN theaters?

Wow. Never would've guessed.

[Pavulon]

38. Wolverines! (that is all)

[Mythsaje]

33. It's already in the hands of the public

and nothing anyone can do can take it away.

The best we can do is mitigate it and try to protect those we can.

[Owl]

12. Good post. K&R

[aikoaiko]

5. We in no state that I know of are carry permits issued to just anyone...

It is true that some states have stricter requirements than others. I get you point.

But yet, even in those states where the restrictions are less strict, do we see CCW permit holders committing crime to any noticeable extent? Not that I've seen.

Different states have different automoble operator requirements and insurance requirements, but it all seems to work out ok even when poor behavior, choices, or accidents occur.

Obviously, I ultimately supported the amendment.

[LiberalFighter]

10. I haven't seen any stats that break down crimes based on whether one does or doesn't have a CCW.

[eqfan592]

15. Look here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x240402

This has been a hot topic over in the gungeon.

[aikoaiko]

20. Possibly a source to answer the issue

The Violence Prevention Center, a well known anti-right to keep and bear arms organization, issued a report on the 51 deaths committed by CCW permit holders. Of course that number is so low so it will be hard to draw conclusions, but it may be possible to parse out CCW holders from strict and less strict states. Of course it shold be noted that the homocides didn't always involve concealed weapons or even a gun in once case. I don't have the time to analyze it yet, but it may provide some insight.

[LiberalFighter]

27. From what I understood from one article was that the stats for CCW

are not consistently reported from all jurisdictions.

[safeinOhio]

44. Lets see the stats on how many crimes were prevented

and innocent lives saved by legal gun owners. Most likely, 51/day.

[X_Digger]

48. Estimates of defensive gun uses vary..

from ~110,000 (NCVS- National Crime Victimization study) to 2.5M Kleck & Gertz study. Not all of these represent avoiding death, but possibly serious bodily injury. Very few actually resulted in discharging the gun- some were merely telling a would-be perpetrator that the would-be victim is armed, some involve showing a holstered weapon, some involve actually pulling a gun, and some involve pointing the gun.

[eqfan592]

51. If we were to assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle...

...and go with 1m defensive gun uses per year, then that would put the rate at a little over 2700/day.

[X_Digger]

54. Even if you assume 1/2 of the LOW estimate..

Still ~150/day.

[eqfan592]

58. Exactly. (nt)

[eqfan592]

14. Well said sir. (nt)

[Paladin]

6. Well Said. (n/t)

[Ozymanithrax]

8. I find it interesting that States Rights are only important...

to Republicans at election time. Thune's ammendment would have voided state laws with a federal government mandate.

I haven't shot at another human being since Vietnam. I've never owned a rifle or a gun, and never felt I needed one for protection of myself for my family.

[eqfan592]

17. That is your choice to make.

And thankfully you have never faced a situation at home that would make you regret it.

[renegade000]

13. I completely agree with this sentiment

The federal government should at least specify some minimum set of standards that states have to meet before other states are obligated to recognize their CCW permits.

[eqfan592]

18. The bill did this very thing.

It stated that a person must meet the federal requirements to even posses a firearm in the first place, which rules out those found mentally unstable, violent offenders, those with felony records, with restraining orders against them, etc.

This is why I don't understand this particular argument against CCW. No state allows any of the above to even posses a firearm, much less carry one concealed.

[Mythsaje]

16. I hate to tell you, but chances are yahoos are packing heat

whether or not they can get it justified with a CCW.

[Pavulon]

23. Yeppers, this law just pisses off people who follow rules

those who dont give a fuck and carry illegally, still dont give a fuck.

[slackmaster]

29. No state issues CCW permits to people prohibited by federal law from buying a gun

Or anyone under 21.

K&U

:kick:

[safeinOhio]

46. Not so

Check out Vermont.

http://gunowners.org/vtcarry.htm

[X_Digger]

49. Technically, since VT doesn't issue permits _at all_..

.. then slack's statement is true. VT does fall under federal restrictions regarding gun sales, and state law prohibits felons from possessing firearms or ammunition.

[eqfan592]

52. exactly...

so the minimum standard is still set.

[slackmaster]

59. That's not a valid answer in any way - Vermont doesn't issue permits to anyone

And federal law applies there, so my statement was accurate.

[derby378]

55. Honestly, I had my own concerns about the Thune amendment

The basic premise is a good one, but I think Thune was trying to do too much too soon. And there were simply too many questions about eligibility and restrictions.

A majority of Senators voted to pass the amendment - just not enough to meet the magic number needed to amend a spending bill. I think this legislation will come up again within a couple of years, and next time around, I hope we have enough time to sit down and really scrutinize it in order to make an informed decision.

[Statistical]

57. You are aware the requirements to posess a gun is set by federal law.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 defined 11 categories of prohibited persons.

A state couldn't issue a CCW to someone in one of those 11 categories because it wouldn't magically not make it a federal felony. Federal law exists side by side with state law thus the minimum requirements will always be the greater of state requirments + federal requiremnts.

VA for example has no requirements other than be a resident, take gun course, get fingerprinted (removed in most localities now) and not be prohibited from possession by federal law.