75 yr old woman calls police about suicidal daughter. Both women shot and killed

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/22/georgia.shooting/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A 75-year-old suburban Atlanta woman who called police for help was shot and killed during a confrontation between the policeman who responded and her suicidal daughter, police said Wednesday.

Barbara Baker of Duluth died at the scene Tuesday night, and her daughter, Penny Schwartz, 51, died overnight at a hospital, according to the Gwinnett County Police Department.

In her call for help, Baker said her daughter was trying to shoot herself, according to a police department news release. But when a police officer arrived, Baker told him her daughter had been saying "that she wanted the police to shoot her."

As Baker talked to the officer inside the home, Schwartz "came downstairs and ... pointed a gun at the responding officer," the release said.

"The officer opened fire and the mother and daughter shot," it said.

------------------

The officer is on administrative leave while the incident is under investigation

[BobRossi]

1. Let's get it straight...

"The officer opened fire and the mother and daughter WERE shot," it said.

"The exact circumstances of how the mother was shot are unknown at this time and this incident is under investigation," police said.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/22/georgia.shooting/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. I hear ya and corrected the thread title. Thanks.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. yes, let's do get it straight

The "were" is square-bracketed, i.e., inferred and not actually stated. CNN may have edited in the last few minutes, I don't know. But as of right now, the quote reads:

"The officer opened fire and the mother and daughter shot," it said.

[BobRossi]

6. When I pasted the square brackets....

The brackets and the 'were' between them was removed. (Just like in your post).

[DisgustipatedinCA]

11. you're right, and I'm sorry

I corrected your correction without seeing that I was doing exactly the same thing. I don't know why it removes the brackets. Anyway, I'm sorry about that.

[FarCenter]

16. DU interprets the square brackets as the angle brackets around an HTML tag.

In this case it sees a <were> and can't figure out what to do with it.

[BobRossi]

20. Thanks! nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

12. Ok.

[tblue37]

67. Square brackets are used on this site for HTML tags, so anything

left in square brackets will disappear in the body text of the post. If you post an article with square brackets, you must change them to parentheses or angle brackets to prevent such disappearance.

[tblue37]

65. Square brackets are used on this site for HTML tags, so anything

left in square brackets will disappear in the body text of the post. If you post an article with square brackets, you must change them to parentheses or angle brackets to prevent such disappearance.

[damntexdem]

27. Hmm, there's got to be a better way to prevent suicide.

Suicide by cop only works because it works. And in this case, it became murder-suicide by cop.

[dgibby]

3. Sad.

Sounds like the mother was "collateral damage", ie, probably caught in crossfire or moved into line of fire to protect her daughter. "Suicide by cop" is always a tragedy for everyone involved.

[BobRossi]

5. Especially for the cop. nt

[dgibby]

9. Yeah.

My dad was Chief of Police in our little city for years. Never shot anyone. Had the gift of being able to charm the birds out of the trees. He walked in on a domestic violence call to find himself staring down both barrels of a shotgun. Talked the guy out of killing his wife, and they all walked out of there alive.

As much as I miss him, I'm glad he didn't live long enough to see what's happening today, what with the militarization of police, etc. It would break his heart.

[BobRossi]

14. Cops hate domestic disputes.

They are damned if they do and damned of they don't.
It' usually a no-win situation for them.

As far as the militarization of the police, it was brought on by the militarization of the criminal.

I would never want my public servants to face down an AK-57 without being able to protect themselves.

[virgogal]

19. Thanks for your nice explanation of police work as it is today.

My son has been a cop for 15 years in a major city and it is rough,very rough.

[BobRossi]

25. No problem...

It seems that many 'Libs' have never outgrown their adolescent disrespect for law enforcement.
I count the Chief and two deputy commanders of the force in my city as personal friends.

[cboy4]

28. Put a sock in it .. "Libs" who have trouble with law enforcement generally

have had negative experiences.

[BobRossi]

32. ^Case in point^ nt.

[cboy4]

35. Exactly. You have nothing.

[AspenRose]

34. Wow.

There's a difference between disrespect and distrust.

And cboy4's right: Those who *distrust* usually do based on personal experiences. Nothing "adolescent" (or wrong) about that.

Wow.

[mopinko]

63. many 'libs' know a lot about cops.

there are many fine people in law enforcement, but the job is a prick magnet. always has been, always will be. and the real trouble is when the good ones stick up for the bad ones.
i live in chicago, and i have seen quite a bit.

[dgibby]

23. Domestics-the most dangerous call they go on.

I agree with you about leveling the playing field. I was actually referring to the DHS component, not the criminals. It just feels like DHS considers us the enemy, thus the militarization of the police.

I get ill just hearing some of the hate spewed at the police here. Like every other profession, there are good cops and bad cops, but it's usually only the bad ones we hear about.

[Fumesucker]

26. The "miltiarization of the criminal" was brought on by the drug war..

And while I know the drug war is not popular with every single cop it seems to have a very strong support overall among the LEO community.

And the criminals were strongly "militarized" during alcohol Prohibition without a concomitant militarization of the police.

[MadMaddie]

62. Domestics are some of the most volatile and dangerous

situations for a police officer to walk into.

[Mimosa]

68. Bob, that was my first thought

Suicide by cop is all too common. Didn't some nut who lived with his mother shoot 3 police with an AK47 just yesterday? I thought of the agony of their families and wanted to cry. These type of reports are very sad and nobody should use them to 'go after' police.

[peace13]

7. I would love to know the reason why the cop engaged this suicidal woman ..

before getting her mother out of the house first. This is so sad. It seems that they shoot first and ask questions later. This reminds me of the woman who got stripped searched violently by male cops after she called the cops for help. This is all so sad.

[BobRossi]

10. It's called self defense.

"As Baker talked to the officer inside the home, Schwartz "came downstairs and ... pointed a gun at the responding officer," the release said."

Geez, buy a clue.

[Iggo]

15. So he killed Baker (the mother) in self -defense?

Which clue was that, again?

[Gwendolyn]

17. No, in self-defense against the daughter but the mother stepped into the line of fire.

[BobRossi]

18. WOW! Ok lets go real slow...

Are you ready?

"As Baker talked to the officer inside the home, Schwartz "came downstairs and ... pointed a gun at the responding officer," the release said."
At this point the officer has every right to defend himself. Got it?

"The officer opened fire and the mother and daughter shot," it said."

"The exact circumstances of how the mother was shot are unknown at this time and this incident is under investigation," police said."
The mother may have been shot by her daughter, got it?

Beyond this you're on your own.

[NoSheep]

24. Oh... don't go and spoil all the fun...shucks.

:hi: I'm reminded of a lyric..Radiohead (I think) You do it to yourself. Just you and no one else...

[Mimosa]

70. Maybe cops shouldn't even respond to domestic calls

Maybe cops shouldn't even respond to domestic calls if this is the appreciation they get. There are a lot of violent criminals and some crazies out there. Cops are our neighbors, friends, family...

[Maru Kitteh]

21. At 75 she may have had mobility issues, may not have been willing to leave her daughter's side, we

just don't have enough information on the circumstances here.

I do wish police had a LOT more training in dealing with the mentally ill, because with our total lack of adequate mental healthcare in this country police are unfortunately faced with being this segment of our society's first and only contact with any form of public service, often with predictably poor outcomes.

I think the world has become too complicated to task anyone with the job of law enforcement without making sure they have at least a 2 year associates degree in criminal justice, and a good chunk of that education should deal with how to interact with the mentally ill in emergency situations.

[Gwendolyn]

29. The daughter had Crohn's disease. A severe case of it according to the neighbor.

She wasn't necessarily mentally ill. Just perhaps tired of pain, which is why she may have preferred the cops off her rather than do it herself.

The mother on the other hand, still worked at Home Depot, so mobility wasn't an issue. If it was, she wouldn't have been spry enough to jump into the fray.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. If you are suicidal, you have a mental health issue. Death by cop would seem indicative of that.

I understand and support assistance for ending ones life, but these actions were not those of someone mentally well.

ETA: When I read the link I didn't see the part about the mom. Very sad all the way around.

[me b zola]

61. Enough info for cops and their brutality backers to support her killing

Civilized nations don't do this.

[Gwendolyn]

8. Doesn't look like it's the cop's fault according to this story.

"Investigators are trying to determine if Baker died trying to shield Schwartz from the officer or whether she was trying to shield the officer from Schwartz."

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/20139596/detail.html

It's a shame the daughter was ill and no longer wanted to live, but if you really need to off yourself, why not quietly go ahead and keep others out of it? This woman killed her own mother, basically.

[sharesunited]

13. Access to guns by the general public makes suicide by cop more likely.

[proteus_lives]

30. Here we go.....

"Safety is more important then freedom."-sharesunited's anthem.

Yeah, take away people's rights and they will be safe and happy. :eyes:

[sharesunited]

33. Just stop selling new guns and ammo.

That would be an excellent step.

[proteus_lives]

36. Why would that be a "good" step?

Why don't millions of law-abiding Americans deserve the right to purchase ammo, new weapons and replace malfunctioning or old equipment?

[sharesunited]

38. For essentially the same reason they can't buy morphine over the counter.

Bad for society.

[proteus_lives]

39. How can it be bad for society....

When millions of gun-owners and millions of firearms have never committed or been used to commit an illegal act?

What is the purpose or reasoning behind collective punishment?

[sharesunited]

43. A few bad apples spoiled it for the pro-Morphine crowd too.

So many responsible users collectively punished. Boo hoo.

[proteus_lives]

44. Any other rights you wish to rail against?

Fox News spoiled it for the pro-free speech crowd too. Boo hoo.

Can't pick and choose.

[sharesunited]

46. You absolutely CAN pick and choose. Kiddie porn not protected because the nation said No!

[X_Digger]

49. There never was a right to kiddie porn..

.. any more than there is a right to murder.

Publishing Kiddie Porn = abuse of first amendment
Murder = abuse of second amendment

Weak, even for you.

[sharesunited]

52. Be ashamed of your guilty pleasure.

[X_Digger]

57. That's the extent of your comeback?

C'mon, you can do better than that..

[sharesunited]

58. That's what it comes down to.

Stigmatizing your gun love despite your ability to find others similarly afflicted with whom you can commune.

Until the tide is turned.

[X_Digger]

59. Guess I was wrong..

.. you can't do better than that.

[proteus_lives]

54. Wow, you hit that one into a sand-trap.

:rofl:

[blueamy66]

48. I like the way that you think.

:)

Amy

[Pavulon]

41. yet how many people die from oxy

rich and poor alike. go for that ban..

[sharesunited]

45. I understand that Florida is a flagrant enabler. Federally preempt the strip mall clinic business.

[Pavulon]

47. Schedule 2 drug, Still all over, hillbilly crack

kills plenty. Funny how a ban only seems to impact those who chose to follow it.

[leeroysphitz]

22. A deaf policeman heard tbe noise, came and shot those two dead boys...

[tblue37]

69. One bright day, in the middle of the night, two dead boys came out to fight.

Back to back they faced each other, drew their guns and shot each other. A deaf policeman heard the noise and came to arrest those two dead boys.

Boy, that brings back childhood memories!

(I notice, though, that in your version, the cop just shoots the dead boys--he doesn't arrest them. Maybe yours is closer to current reality--or maybe the cop would have Tased those two dead boys.)

[proteus_lives]

31. Sad.

For the cop and the mom. The daughter can rot in hell, forcing someone else to kill you? Directly causing the death of your mother? Causing someone a lifetime of emotional grief and second-guessing? There is no one lower.

[BlooInBloo]

37. Shoot 'em all, and let God sort it out. Wonderful.

[proteus_lives]

40. You're blaming the cop?

Why?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

51. That's his gimmick (n/m)

[X_Digger]

42. Terrible situation..

.. my wife had what they thought was Crohn's (turned out to be an adhesion/stricture from a previous surgery) and was in almost constant pain for 1.5 years. It was only after they removed 6" of intestine (which had constricted to the diameter of a pencil) that she realized exactly how much pain she had been in.

I feel sorry for all three of them. :(

[LisaL]

53. O'key, I can understand killing the daughter. She had a gun

so it seems that shooting is justified. But what about the mother? Why was she killed?
Stray bullet?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

55. She may have stepped in front of the daughter or the cop's gun

Hard to say, no one seems to know.

[proteus_lives]

56. My guess.

She automatically jumped between the two when the officer fired. If you're a parent, how could you not. It's the saddest part of the story, the daughter is responsible for two deaths. Her own and that of her mother. Stories like this make me want to hug family members. :cry:

[alarimer]

60. This just sounds like a terrible tragedy to me.

I am not sure the cop is really at fault.

[tblue37]

64. Many years ago here in Lawrence, Kansas, a Native American family called the police

to help them with their son (Greg Sevier), who had locked himself in his room with a large knife. They feared he might harm or kill himself.

When the cops came, they broke the door down and drew their weaopns. When Sevier stood up with the knife, they told him to drop it. He didn't, they opened fire, and he died in a hail of gunfire.

I also remember a story from several years ago (I don't remember where it had happened) about a young (19 years old) African American woman passed out or asleep in her car. She had a gun in her lap (obviously afraid of assault). I believe her cousin called the cops to go check up on her. When the police tapped on her window, the cops open fire because as she started awake, she had her gun in her hand. Again: dead in a hail of gunfire.

Cops don't seem to have a clue about how to de-escalate any situation. All they know how to do is escalate it to the most absurd point.

Greg Sevier was Native American. The young woman in the car was African American. I haven't read the OP article yet, but I am guessing that when I do, I will learn that the woman and her daughter were African American--or some other minority that the police automatically consider dangerous.

[Liberal_in_LA]

66. 'woman asleep in car' happened in Los Angeles area. There are other stories

of families calling for help with unstable family member that ends in a hail of police bullets.