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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 04:56 PM
Original message
Socialist Health Plan? In Norway, Obama's Plan Not Even Close
Published on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 by CommonDreams.org
Socialist Health Plan? In Norway, Obama's Plan Not Even Close

by George Lakey


If Michael Steele and the Republicans really believe that President Obama is proposing a socialist health plan, they need to get out more.

I've just returned from a research trip to Norway, where their universal health system really is socialist. It's also much less expensive than the current U.S. system, so maybe the Republicans would like it if they checked it out. The non-socialists in Norway support it because it works so well, especially compared with "the bad old days" of private medicine, when even the doctors' association advocated for socialized medicine as the only affordable way to make quality care available to all Norwegians.

One reason Norwegians like their system is that it's pro- economic innovation because it's not tied to the employer. Norwegians are free to change jobs for more challenging opportunities, or try their wings as entrepreneurs, because they don't have to worry about insurance - it's with them wherever they go. Economist Jonathan Gruber of MIT is one of many economists who believe that U.S. employer-tied health insurance is a drag on progress. But Obama's plan accepts the status quo even though it might not be affordable.

Norwegians like their system because it cuts red tape. The patient-doctor relationship isn't complicated by multiple insurances; if you need care, you get it as a matter of right. No bills to pay, no plans to juggle, no worry about your dependents, and no worry about your becoming a burden to your children. ...........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/07/21-12





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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
:kick:
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good point about how employment-based medical coverage discourages job mobility...
Health benefits also act as social control mechanisms used by corporations to increase the level of insecurity their employees have to live with.

And a scared employee -- thrown to the wolves as an overwhelmed individual rather than as a member of a union or some other organized counter-weight to full corporate totalitarianism -- is the perfect wage/debt slave and will do whatever he/she is told to avoid increasing their already suffocating levels of uncertainty and insecurity.

Just one more way the American dream works to enrich the piggies, control the (disappearing) middle class, exploit the working classes and keep the elites wallowing in their hard-earned dividend checks.

Writing for the New Democracy Newsletter, November-December 2000, here's what John Spritzler, researcher at the Harvard School of Public Health, had to say about yet another corporate strategy to induce angst and misery among the troops:


THE EFFECTS OF MARKET-DRIVEN CARE

The real effects of market-driven health care on people's lives suggest that the primary corporate motive for imposing this type of health care system is to allow employers to have more control over their labor force.

What are the results of market-driven health care? First, market-driven health care makes people feel insecure about their prospects for receiving health care when they need it. Second, it destroys the trust that patients once had in their doctors by making doctors "gatekeepers'' whose role is often to block access to care.

Third, by making health care a commodity to be bought and sold like any other, it expands the growing economic inequality in the United States to include health inequality. Fourth, it pits health professionals against each other in competing physician groups and hospitals. These are four classic methods of social control: make people feel too insecure to challenge those in power, destroy people's trust in one another, make them more unequal, pit them against each other.

Even before the rise of market-driven health care, corporations relied on the insecurity of health care to control workers. For decades, large employers (and some regressive labor unions) have preferred to link health benefits to employment, knowing it gave them more control over their employees. According to a New York Times/CBS poll in 1991, 32 percent of workers did not quit jobs they disliked because they were afraid of losing their health benefits.

In June, 1998 General Motors threatened to deny medical benefits to striking workers in Flint, Michigan in order to pressure them back to work. Raytheon actually did cancel health insurance for striking workers in Massachusetts in August 2000, to force them back to work. Additionally, making health benefits depend on independent agreements between employer and employees in thousands of different companies gives employers the upper hand by preventing employees from acting as a single nation-wide block.

This is why American corporations don't want the situation in Europe, where wages and benefits such as health care, vacation, and maternity benefits are negotiated on a country-wide basis between representatives of labor, the government and corporations.



Capitalism: It's just a polite word for the collection of misanthropic policies that supply the shackles and handcuffs needed to trap formerly free humans in miserable, meaningless lives of endless corporate drudgery. And retirees don't even get a gold watch anymore. Instead, they get their pensions stolen.


sf
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Excellent post! Hey, it's great to see you around!
Either you've been scarce, or I've managed to miss the threads you've been posting in.

Capitalism: It's just a polite word for the collection of misanthropic policies that supply the shackles and handcuffs needed to trap formerly free humans in miserable, meaningless lives of endless corporate drudgery.


Thank you for that. I'm so sick and tired of seeing all the defenders of capitalism around here.

Thanks for still being here,
sw
:yourock:
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thank you, and likewise about still being here -- both of us since 2001 it seems...
Between paying work and single-payer activism (writing, speechifying and yakking on obscure internet-only low-power radio stations), I haven't had a lot of extra time.

But I try to keep my DU journal updated and, although I'm getting to be a one-subject bore lately, you can always have a look here or here to see my latest unworkable schemes for wresting money and power from the privileged and reassigning it to those who actually deserve it for once in human history.

Take very good care of yo-seff and thanks again for the kind words.


sf


(The blabbermouth formerly known as Warren Pease now writing as Steven Franklin cuz that's actually 2/3 of my real name, eh? Close enough for gummint work.)
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is a great post...
I think pointing out that employer based health insurance is actually discouraging would-be entrepreneurs and economic innovation is a pretty powerful argument. It seems like there are a lot of conservative Democrats and moderate types out there that could be persuaded with this argument. They could go back to their districts and tell the people whom they represent that they are voting for universal coverage precisely because they believe in free markets and spurring economic growth by allowing people to take chances and open their own businesses without fear of losing health care.

Thanks for the great article.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. and we NEED a Norway-style healthcare, not "the weakest program that the bad-cop GOP will object to"
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 08:19 PM by MisterP
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks . . and we should try to get some details on what the health care covers . . .
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 09:14 PM by defendandprotect
in othe countries. We need to stop pretending we're inventing the wheel!

For instance is abortion covered?

And, for instance, what happens with a Congressman here if his wife needs a late

term abortion? Do they have to pay for it?

I'm wondering . . . ???

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It probably depends
Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 09:54 PM by dflprincess
if the Congressman is an anti-choice conservative then they pay out of pocket (and preferably in another country) under an assumed name. This is also true if it is the anti-choice conservatives mistress who is pregnant (though in that case it is not necessarily a late term abortion). :evilgrin:

I don't know what happens when the Congressperson in question is prochoice.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Canada covers abortion . . .
it's fully covered as a medical procedure.

Someone from Canada here at DU just supplied that answer!

Meanwhile . . . I'm still wondering if the Congressional medical care we pay for

for Congress covers abortion at any state? Would be interesting to know!

But - I do agree with you on what probably happens.

Think we could ask someone in Congress about that? Maybe Kucinich?

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Kucinich would probably answer the question
a lot of them would probably dodge it.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'll give it a try . . .!!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. THIS is the Atomic Quote:
"Norwegians are free to change jobs for more challenging opportunities, or try their wings as entrepreneurs, because they don't have to worry about insurance."

Rugged Individualism! Entrepreneurship! Possible thanks to... SOCIALISM!
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Bennyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. K nad R'd
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. We need more specifics on what other countries are covering -- especially abortion --
which should, rightly, be covered!

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