What is going on in California? Budget cuts that hit elderly and poor the hardest?

[Blue_Roses]

this is terrible...
___________________________________________________________



Calif. budget deal: No new taxes, many big cuts
Agreement to close state's $26 billion deficit awaits approval by Legislature

updated 52 minutes ago

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and California's legislative leaders have agreed on a plan to slice $26 billion from the state’s recession-ravaged budget,cuts that would hit the elderly and poor the hardest.

The governor and leaders from both parties announced the compromise late Monday after more than five hours of closed-door talks. If the agreement survives its run through both houses of the Legislature, it would provide temporary relief to an epic fiscal crisis that has captured national attention, sunk the state's credit rating and forced it to issue IOUs, and forced deep cuts in education and social services.

But it won’t solve the state’s budget problem. Most analysts and top lawmakers expect that California will face multibillion-dollar deficits into the foreseeable future as the economy struggles to recover and tax revenue lags far behind the level of the boom years.

more...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010922/ns/us_news-life/

[marmar]

1. California is being "Shock Doctrined"

n/t

[DBoon]

2. or "drowned in a bathtub"

nt

[Blue_Roses]

4. this is terrible...

:(

[KakistocracyHater]

60. they keep chopping away on American-quality-of-life=3rd World soon

THEN they can implement child labor again(gotta grind that seed-corn DOWN)because public ed is ttttttttttooooooooooooo eeeeeexxxxxxpppppennnnssivvvvvveee.
Don't complain about American workers' education out of one side of the mouth when the other side is chewing schools to bits.

Will we be reduced to begging as the elderly USED to do in India, re: no Social Security there? Already I've seen quite a few Americans begging at shopping centers. Where will it end, these cuts? I don't think we'll get back what they've amputated away. What can stop this madness? & these cuts WON'T CLOSE GAP in budget? Then wtf DO it??

[mike_c]

3. the minority republicans won, for all intents and purposes....

We are screwed.

[Blue_Roses]

7. how did California get such a huge deficit?

[JuniperLea]

11. Ahhnold cut taxes and fees...

Right out of the shoot he cut DMV renewal fees... fees that were to take care of paying for other things... so the money had to come from somewhere. There's a long list of things like this... off to find the DU thread wherein they appear!

[mike_c]

18. still lots of argument about that....

Certainly major contributors include Prop 13-- which itself included both revenue limits and the utterly dysfunctional state budget process-- and the overall economic collapse kicked off by the sub-prime mortgage market failure. We had a surplus a couple of years ago. The market collapse this year turned a reasonably-close-to-balanced budget into a deficit nightmare as projected revenues failed to materialize.

My personal feeling is that Prop 13 and its budget legislative mandates are the biggest problem this state faces. They simply cannot be fixed without something along the lines of a constitutional do-over.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

37. Because CA is highly dependent upon things like capital gains taxes...

...and other taxes on the rich / investors for a lot of its income, and they haven't been doing so hot lately. And it's nearly impossible to raise taxes, because a small minority of Republicans can hold the entire budget hostage due to Prop 13 and other nonsensical measures. Also, this state has a propensity to never save for a rainy day. Hence, there's basically no money left over from the boom times to help us get through the hard times. I believe the technical term for this situation is "clusterfuck."

[Politicub]

5. This breaks my heart

And I don't live in California.

Cuts that hit the elderly and poor the hardest are the domain of scoundrels, and those who support this should be run out on a rail.

Don't they know those services are in place for a reason? People will die because of these cuts. Shame.

[JuniperLea]

15. Yep... very stupid move...

The whining will ensue shortly when they figure out this is going to cost us all a lot more in the long run.

Ahhnold needs to go!!

[Blue_Roses]

17. exactly! It will not only cost more in the long run but many will go without the much

needed help that they depend on. I feel for those people:(

[JuniperLea]

23. Me too...

This will be a human crisis of monumental proportion. So very sad to see.

[sendero]

27. Get used to it..

.... as goes California so goes the nation. All over the country tax revenues for states and localities are down by huge percentages.

CA is the first but they are not the last. This rolling juggernaut is not going away.

[JuniperLea]

35. Yep... I'm in CA...

We are the first in a long line of dominos... Ahhnold quite literally just signed a death sentence to many of California's poor and displaced citizens. Once the idiots in charge realize people are dying, it will be too late.

And the youtube video of his smirking whilst waving a knife around is disgusting! Idiot! He is a freaking IDIOT!

[Starry Messenger]

6. We're screwed.

[JuniperLea]

8. The big dumb comic book hero...

Is going to stupidly wonder why costs start going up for police, prisons, courts, etc.... not to mention the increase in welfare recipients because our youth will only know how to steal cars and won't be worthy of jobs.

I'm so sick of the libertarian crap about "why should I pay for some other person's kid to go to school?" So you don't wind up having your car stolen, your house burglarized, and your wife raped, dumbass! You will either have to pay far more taxes, or learn to live without roads, water, electricity, beaches, libraries, etc.

California is a leader... the rest of the country will follow us off the cliff!

And the seniors... don't get me started on our seniors! They are eating dog food as it is! :cry:

[imdjh]

9. How would it end healthcare coverage for seniors?

"he plan would end health care coverage for tens of thousands of seniors"

Seniors are on Medicare, a federal program. How would California's budget affect them?

[Hannah Bell]

40. e.g. nursing home care, typically funded via medicaid (state & fed funds) because if you're in a

nursing home more than a year or so, you'll typically go broke.

[imdjh]

57. Thanks. nt

[Warpy]

10. You don't think Arnie or all those pubbies in the lege

will go after their own class, do you?

Instead of inconveniencing the rich, they'll just kill the poor by neglect.

[lindisfarne]

12. Republicans refuse to raise taxes. It takes a 2/3 majority in CA to raise taxes

& with Prop 13, property taxes do not bring in the revenue they do per capita in other states. Prop. 13 keeps property taxes artificially low, even for the well off, who purchased homes years ago; people who purchased even modest homes more recently pay disproportionately high property taxes. (Would have been better to institute income-based property tax reductions like most states have).
See wikipedia for more details of the changes instituted in 1978 by Prop. 13.

[Ardent15]

13. So much for the "moderate" Schwarzenegger

Always cut the "weak ones" off, as the GOP playbook says.

[Webster Green]

14. The biggest cash crop in this state could solve the problem..

Combine legalizing and taxing pot with releasing drug offenders from prison to solve the budget problems and provide health care to everyone.

Seriously...trust me. I'm a die-hard first-wave hippie and we were (and still are) correct about everything. :hippie:

[lindisfarne]

16. It wouldn't solve the problem - taxes on marijuana might raise $1 billion.The problem is $26 billion

[JuniperLea]

19. The tax on the product is the short of it...

Think big... businesses... employees... increased income tax revenue... increased spending which equals increased sales tax... and on and on and on. It's a domino effect and everyone seems stuck on the first domino!

[lindisfarne]

20. Most states don't rely on sales tax to the degree CA does. CA relies on sales tax because of the

effect Prop. 13 has on reducing property tax revenue.

[JuniperLea]

25. Prop 13 is going to become moot...

If we abolish Prop 13 and bring property taxes back up, they will only fall again due to the loss in property values. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[lindisfarne]

26. That doesn't make sense. Under Prop 13, taxes can be adjusted downward to reflect loss of value.

[JuniperLea]

34. That's the point... it has already happened...

California homeowners received notice of reassessment, many losing half or more of their home value. (I can't be the only one to receive this recently. ) The property taxes were adjusted accordingly. I'm not sure what can't be understood about that, or the fact that there would be a major upheaval if the state tried to keep taxes static. Who wants to pay taxes on a $450k home that is really only worth $200k?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

39. That's complete nonsense.

Prop 13 makes it easy to adjust taxes downward, but far more difficult to adjust them upward. There are plenty of people in CA sitting on top of million dollar homes who are paying taxes as if it were still worth what it was in 1982.

[JuniperLea]

41. You are clearly clueless...

I live in California, and have been a homeowner here since 1982, currently residing in my third home. I probably know what I'm talking about, but don't let that bother you at all. :eyes:

If you have been paying attention at all, you would understand this conversation better, and know that home values are just about at that level right now. My $450k (per exact duplicate homes sold on my very block three years ago) is now worth $180K, (per exact duplicate home sold last week, one door down.) There is clearly no reason or justification to adjust property taxes upward at this point.

California is on the cutting, leading edge. This trend is, and will continue to happen throughout the US for at least a couple of years to come.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. What are you talking about?

If you managed to buy a home in California that is worth the same now as it was in 1983 then you need to take econ 101.

[JuniperLea]

46. Oh brother...

You been under a rock for the past two years or so? Have you any idea what went down with the real estate market and the "bubble" that burst? Or are you just talking out of your ass, as it appears to me?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

47. Average home prices in every single county in California...

...are far, far above 1983 levels. In some cases by a factor of ten. There is not a single county in this state where homes are worth less now (even adjusted for inflation) than they were in 1983.

[JuniperLea]

48. Oh bullshit...

You can't paint all of California real estate with that same broad brush... that just proves how naive you are in regard to real estate here. You can't compare my home, five miles from the PCH, just north of Seal Beach, with a home in Riverside, Cabazon, or Fresno. That is just showing ignorance.

Note this graph shows "median" home prices; there are prices up and down all over the map within these counties.

And I never said they were lower... please try to pay attention and keep up... here is a copy and pasted quote from my comment above: "home values are just about at that level right now."

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. Uh, none of what your graph (which is probably wrong) shows...

...contradicts my point. Also, please try using reliable sources for your data from now on, instead of "some guy with a blog."

[JuniperLea]

66. You can't even read a graph, huh?

That guy happens to have a database from which the graph is derived, and all of the information is easily substantiated.

There is about a $20k difference between the current home prices and the prices in 1984. But if you could read a graph, you would already know that. And you would be able to see how your broad brush approach to defining the CA real estate situation laughable.

[SharonAnn]

65. Warren Buffet (La Jolla, CA home) says it's ridiculous that he pays such low property taxes

on his home just because he's lived in it a long time and is protected from property tax increases. And he notes that people in CA with homes worth much less than his are paying more in property taxes because they bought their house after he bought his.

[rvablue]

58. The problem with those who feel that Prop. 13 isn't the problem, is that, like you,

they focus on primary residences -- even those of the mega-wealthy.

That's not what has gutted the local tax bases.

It's commercial and industrial and rental properties - and the fact that most of the holders of these properties are paying 30-year-old tax rates on them.

Real estate bubble bursting or not, a 12-unit apartment complex in Santa Monica today is worth probably 3-4 times what it was worth in the late 70s and early 80s, and yet if that property has not changed hands, the tax rate has remained almost virtually frozen.

To fill the gap of the rising costs of all other goods and services, the upper middle class, middle class, working class and even the poor have had to fill this gap with income and sales taxes and state and local fees.

It's not fair. And Calfornian's need to develop the political will do undo this wrong.

Ahnuld couldn't save CA's budget crisis even if he miraculously transformed into a Kucinich clone by nightfall. And neither will any other governor in the future -- Progressive, Republican, Independent --until the hole is plugged....and that "hole" is Prop. 13.

[JuniperLea]

62. Two years ago they were worth 3 - 4 times their value in the 80's

Clearly you haven't looked at those prices, or the comparison. It's down to a 10 to 20% spread.

[Webster Green]

22. It would raise more than that, and the prison industry is very costly.

I'm talking about taking full advantage of the cannabis plant, including the jobs created by U.S. manufactured goods from hemp, medicinal and medical marijuana and edibles and tinctures and on and on. There is already a nice little industry that is getting larger all the time, even though the stuff is illegal (more or less).

It's arguably the most beneficial plant on earth (it might be second to bamboo), yet we've been lied to by the "experts" again, and we are prevented from using this amazing resource. :banghead:

[lindisfarne]

24. In your post that I replied to, you talked about taxing & legalizing pot. Not industrial hemp. n/t

[Webster Green]

28. True enough...that's what I said. I should have mentioned hemp as well.

I've been an activist for both hemp and recreational use since 1965, medicinal use somewhat later. I was active in the Prop 215 initiative which legalized medicinal use, and we passed a similar initiative in Marin County a year or so earlier. :smoke:

[JuniperLea]

42. Some of us think in broader terms...

Interesting that you mentioned "pot" and I thought "hemp" products as well, yet for most people there is a very narrow view of this topic. It is incredibly complex! There are potential tax revenues way beyond the sale of a product, and there are economic benefits far beyond easing crowded conditions in prisons. People just don't seem to be able to think outside the box at all anymore. Those people would probably benefit greatly by expanding their minds and thought processes through "The Weed." :)

[Dreamer Tatum]

61. If pot is legal, I'll grow my own

And so will thousands of others. Crack open a High Times...pretty much 25% of any issue is devoted to growing better bud at home. Legalization will only encourage home farms. I can't make whiskey at home, but I can damn sure grow weed.

[JonQ]

21. Makes sense

those would be the groups getting the most funding from the government, any large scale cuts would have to affect them substantially. The average middle class family isn't getting any services from the government that everyone else isn't also getting (police, fire departments, roads, etc).

[Kid Dynamite]

36. It makes sense if you are named Thomas Malthus

or if you are lining your pockets as the State burns. There is definitely a twisted "logic" at work, but I don't think its the kind anyone cares to endorse..unless they have money involved

[JonQ]

67. So where is the money going to come from?

CA is spending more money than they take in, and have been for a while. So they are forced to start issuing IOUs in lieu of payments.

If they start making cuts, as they must, where shall they come from? The welfare, free medical care, and subsidized housing going to all the billionares?

When you look to cut government spending you have to look where they are spending their money.

[KamaAina]

29. Don't forget people with disabilities

Thousands of Californians with disabilities, many of them under age 65, may well be forced into nursing homes as a result of draconian cuts to In-Home Supportive Services. The irony is, nursing home care costs roughly four times as much -- but it's fully covered by the federal government, and in-home care is not.

Ahh-nuld decided to go for the extra point: Providers and recipients of IHSS (the ones that are left, anyway) will now have to be fingerprinted, to "reduce all the fraud and waste". Great. Now we get to be stigmatized and humiliated just like members of other minority groups who receive welfare benefits. :eyes:

At this moment, activists from ADAPT, the radical disability rights group, are protesting in DC and elsewhere to get the Community Choice Act (H.R. 1670) included in the health care reform package. The CCA would end the institutional bias in Medicaid and make it possible for all Medicaid recipients to receive personal care services at home, not in an institution.

http://www.adapt.org/twitter.php

[Odin2005]

31. You beat me, Dang you, KA!

:P

Anyway, this shit is horrible. :cry:

[Odin2005]

30. Screws over the disabled, too!

:grr:

[SoCalDem]

32. Those groups are safe to attack.. they cannot fight back

and they can;t threaten to withhold donations they cannot give anyway.

[spanone]

33. they elected that asshole twice....twice

[Kid Dynamite]

38. Is that the comment you wanted to share here?

1/8 of the US population finds their State insolvent and you believe it is merely a question of who sits in the big chair?

[JuniperLea]

43. Can you think outside the box at all?

Have you been paying attention at all? Ahhnold needed to sign it... he refused many drafts. Yes, the rat bastard is LARGELY to blame here.

I hope you haven't wondered onto the wrong message board or something...

[Kid Dynamite]

50. If the man in charge is LARGELY responsible

then who do you blame for the calamitous path the economy is currently on with only ominous forecasts for the future?

I am objecting to and challenging the "Great Man" theory which also implies that I object to the "Evil/Wrong Man" conception of how events happen.

The budget shortfall is 10s of billions of dollars and that is for openers. Every state is facing the same situation. The only thing Ahhhnold could do differently is shift the burden of the shortfall around..however, since virtually every governor of both parties are in the pockets of the big business and the wealthy I think you are being extremely..selective..in your appraisal of where things have gone wrong.

Further, detached bitching about Arnold does nothing but trivialize and push aside the very real problem facing millions upon millions of Californians. That is both oblivious and immature.

Think outside the box? Trying thinking your way out of that paperbag first..

[JuniperLea]

51. Even your strawmen smell bad...

ploink

[Blue_Roses]

52. not every state is facing a deficit...

[Kid Dynamite]

53. The situation for every state is dire

I believe thats what I said. If not, apologies.

[Blue_Roses]

54. not every state is dire...

I think I understand what you are saying though...?

[Kid Dynamite]

55. You are driving at something and I don't what

things are bad virtually everywhere, you have "info" that contradicts this?

[southernyankeebelle]

44. Just think what the republicans will do if they win back the congress

and they hurt the people that need it the most. Shame on Arnold.

[defendandprotect]

49. GOP governor can't be helping, but don't know the make up of the state legislature . . .

[rvablue]

56. The state legislature has a healthy Democratic majority. But CA voters, in their infiinite wisdom

and anti-tax mentality, passed a referendum requiring 2/3 of the legislature in order to raise taxes.

That's goes for new taxes on the rich. New taxes on mega corporations. That means tossing Prop. 13, the property tax freeze that has hamstrung local municipal budgets.

They did it to themselves.

And I'm certainly no Ahnuld apologist, but he has very, very little to do with the current debackle, it's been building for years.

[defendandprotect]

59. Hard to understand . . .

2/3rd vote to increase taxes on anyone?

GOP has been working for super majorities in Congress --

why are citizens so dumb on this?

We have to restore progressive taxation -- and relieve the poor and middle class

of the burden which has been placed on them -- including raising SS ceiling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. My fellow Californians love them services, but think they are paid with funny money

I dissent with most folks, after I read the list of cuts.

Yes it will hit the poor and the elderly badly, but it is also going to lead to park closures and other beats that will hit the rich as well

The only way to drive the point home is to hit everybody... and when the rich call 9.11 and nobody answers, they'll get it.

In my view this will go either of two ways.

1.- This will continue this way and California will pass Mississippi and say hi on the way down to low quality of life

2.- The Citizens themselves will demand radical changes in the way the state is run... including scrapping or heavily limiting the petitions, and even a new constitution. Last year citizens authorized to take the power of legislatures to set their own districts... that is the first time in decades citizens vote to reform the government. This may be a fluke or a trend.

Me. I am all for a new Constitution and whole sale reforms in how we raise taxes... yes that means 13 is on the fucking table.

If the latter happens, well it will be painful, but in the end that is what the state needs.

[defendandprotect]

68. The poor continue to be in gated communities and hire

private policing --

I would think that when parks are closing citizens would begin to understand
the threat of all this . . .

it's the GOP's "third world America" come at last!

I'm not that up on things but Prop 13 seemed to do more damage than not --

but my impression is it was done because the rich are so successful in moving

taxation onto the poor and middle class and avoid it themselves.

On the other hand they have to begin to understand that taxes on the rich are good!

And that's the direction we need to move in.

Good luck !!



:)