Question: A friend or family members dying wish is for you to convert...

[armyowalgreens]

Okay, lets say a very good friend or family member is on his or her death bed. This person begs for you to renounce your own beliefs or non-belief and join his or her religion. They explain that they do not want to die knowing that you are destined for eternal damnation. They want to make sure you are "saved". Or if an atheist or agnostic is dying, they may want you to convert because they fear you are wasting your life on religion.

Even with your own convictions and view on religious thought, would you agree to convert? Would you hold your ground?

Remember, this person is dying.


I'm a strong agnostic or even atheist. My mother is evangelical Christian. If she begged me to convert before she died, I would do it. If only to comfort her in her last moments alive.


This is for all people of all religious background. The situation calls for you to renounce your own beliefs and announce conversion to another set of beliefs

Please explain why you would or would not convert.




Also, a bonus question. Let's say you are the one dying and a friend or family member begs you to convert before you pass away. Would you convert or refuse to change your beliefs?



On Edit: The announcement of "conversion" does not mean you literally take up the religion or non-religion. You simply have to say that you will.

[saltpoint]

1. Says here in the Constitution thingy that folks can make up their own minds.

Death-bed conversions are yucky.

[cali]

2. I'd consider lying to comfort them

I wouldn't actually convert afterward- that would be an even bigger lie. As for the bonus question; my answer is no, I would not convert.

[armyowalgreens]

3. I think I'd do the same.

[Ganja Ninja]

9. Yup. No way I'm converting to anything. n/t

[Chemisse]

14. That is what I would do

And regarding the bonus question - if I were the one dying and someone was making those demands on me, I would tell them to shut the fuck up.

Although actually, if it was your mother, and she would suffer tremendously believing you had gone to hell, hmmm. I still wouldn't do it. That is her pathos.

[Orsino]

23. +1

It's a pitiable, passive aggressive thing for a dying person to do, but if it gives them a little happiness, even spiteful happiness that they have "won," it might be worth attempting.

[havocmom]

27. I would consider that too

My dad and uncle would not join a church. My cousin joined the Mormon church and suddenly Dad and Uncle end up being 'baptized' posthumously? Well, if it makes my cousin feel better, but I can almost hear my uncle and father laughing at the concept that someone else could decide for them.

[pipi_k]

35. I wouldn't convert and I wouldn't pretend to do it. I would just

tell the person that I would think about it. And each time the person raised the subject, I would say that I was still thinking. Actually, a better strategy might be to sit down and talk with the person about his/her OWN faith and what it means to that person. Maybe take their focus off of what they want someone else to do and put it on their own feelings.

[Pavulon]

4. That is a very hard question..

i am thinking about this one and getting back to you. It would be easier to justify for a person who is dying than in your own death but I really dont know.

[JVS]

5. My God doesn't appreciate being denied.

I would refuse.

[armyowalgreens]

10. You don't think God would understand if you were simply trying to comfort a loved one?

I could understand your refusal to renounce you religion on your own death bed, but it seems different in the first scenario.

[JVS]

11. He'd be pissed, and rightfully so.

[aquart]

12. Playing the death card to effect a phony conversion?

God would be ashamed of whoever pulled that rotten stunt. Probably send them straight to Hell where they could be eternally employed laying paving stones of good intentions.

[DireStrike]

26. I don't think a god worth worshipping would mind comforting someone.

Then again, I have yet to find a god worth worshipping.

[BlooInBloo]

45. I don't give a rat's ass what god thinks. If it comforts the person, I'm likely to say what's needed

[armyowalgreens]

46. That is my mentality as well.

A god that gets angry because you are trying to comfort someone is no god worth worshiping.

[BlueJazz]

6. I'm an Atheist and Sure...I'd lie and act like I've been saved. I figure it would make their...

...last days more peaceful and certainly would not hurt me and also...It would be the Nice thing to do.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. Sure, it's temporary and you're bringing peace to them before they die.

When people you love die, you compromise a whole lot.

[Fumesucker]

8. I would lie.. and No..

My mind is not such that I could make myself believe something I think ridiculous on its face.

If it was a family member that I loved I would lie to comfort them but I couldn't actually convert.

And no, I wouldn't lie when I was dying in order to comfort some whackjob, even if they were a loved one.

[Catch22Dem]

13. I'd have no problem lying about it to comfort them.

I don't believe in god, so there's no invisible man for me to offend by doing so.

[lisa58]

15. no,...but I would smile and laugh and tell the person....

...my belief system will not impact their access to heaven and then they can continue to badger me about it from the beyond.

....and if I was the one dying - it would really depend how I felt at the time - I doubt I would do it for the other person - it would have to be how I really felt...

[endarkenment]

16. nope.

What you have proposed is to falsely convert in order to deceive your dying loved one. In such a case you have served neither yourself nor the person you are deceiving well, quite the opposite.

As for the other case - why would you even contemplate this act of deception to satisfy the massively selfish desire of some other person to have you convert before your own demise?

[davidpdx]

17. That's a tough question

I'd probably tell them yes, even though I wouldn't do it. I think lying is wrong, but justified given the circumstances that someone is putting you in a difficult spot by forcing religion on you. I feel very strongly that you can't force religion on someone, if they want to practice whatever religion they want, it's up to them. There are a few religions that I see as downright scary and cultist (that's a whole different post though).

[The_Commonist]

18. Luckily, I don't know anyone...

...who would be dumb enough to ask me to do something like that.
Nobody that I know, or would ever choose to hang around with would even think to ask such a thing.
I'm totally agnostic, always have been, and so is pretty much everybody in my life.

And of course, I would say no.
Same for the bonus question.

And, for the record, I'm an "Irrelevantist."

[Vickers]

19. I doubt anyone I know would be foolish enough to pull that shit.

Seriously.

My views are pretty well known, and my heels can dig in pretty deep.

[CrispyQ]

20. Anyone who knows me well enough to ask me to be at their dying bed,

or to be at mine, knows that I'm a non-believer, that I don't believe in an after life & if I said I did, they would know I was lying. I might just tell them to fuck off. It pisses me off, that someone would hijack my last moments with them, to push their own agenda. I would rather spend that time reminiscing about shared moments.


Time is the essence of our lives.

~inscribed on a sundial in the opening scene of Gone With the Wind

[Solly Mack]

21. If I held any respect for the family member making the request in either situation

I would lose it immediately upon their making such an insulting request.

If my conforming to someone's beliefs is necessary for their peace of mind then I whole-heartedly recommend that person getting a life. (and staying out of mine)

[slampoet]

22. ANYONE who has a religion Without a personal connection, faith, or epiphany is a lost soul

Say what you will about born-agains at least some of them seem to have had what they think is a true religious calling. Same with a lot of the Catholic Clergy too.

In an ideal world.......

[dropkickpa]

24. Nope. Answer to bonus question - Fuck off!

Anyone who knows and cares for me knows I am an atheist and am not gonna change and wouldn't ask that question to begin with. The people who are closest to me respect me for my integrity and lying would probably just make them lose respect for me and I'd lose respect for myself.

Anyone asking me to suddenly become religious on my deathbed after being an atheist from birth would get a hearty "Go eat a bowl of donkey balls with shit sauce".

[SheilaT]

25. No one has the right to make

that kind of demand of anyone. It's the worst kind of emotional black mail out there.

It's right up there with the "Promise me you'll never put me in a nursing home, no matter what" which is barely ahead of "I promise I'll never put you in a nursing home no matter what." Those who ask or make the no nursing home promise simply have no understanding of just how bad things might be, and how necessary around the clock professional care might be.



A deathbed demand for conversion shows a profound lack of understanding of what a a personal commitment to a religious belief really is. It's not something you do just to make someone else happy. A religion is not -- or should not be -- just a suit of clothes you put on or take off to fit some particular transitory event. It should be a genuine commitment to a particular belief system. Which is why I don't get people who shop for a congregation they simply feel comfortable with, never mind the denomination and the actual beliefs. Or the ones who say "I'm a Catholic but I'm fine with birth control and abortion and think women should be ordained priests." I don't et sticking with a religion that has core values completely different from your own.

Don't take that example above as special Catholic-bashing. It's just an easy example to make.

But it's why I don't belong to any organized religion, because in the end, no matter how liberal and open they claim to be, in the end they do have a dogma and a set of beliefs that you are at least supposed to believe in. And to pretend to believe something just to make a dying person "happy", well, do you suppose they'd be made happy to know you were lying?

Again, the problem is with the person on the death bed making the demand. I would be uncomfortable if so asked, but I'd stand my ground and point out that I don't hold the beliefs I'm being asked to profess, and it would be hypocritical of me to pretend otherwise.

[LWolf]

28. No.

But then, no one who knows or cares about me would expect that to happen.

[KansDem]

29. I'd ask if I were in the will...

That might be a consideration.

on edit: As for the "bonus question": no, I wouldn't. If the person was persistent, I'd pretend to be comatose. Or have that person removed...

[GTurck]

30. Faced this question...

with my father a couple of years ago; he died earlier this year. I converted to the Catholic Church after growing up nominally Protestant. Dad was a Southern Baptist and Mom raised by Quakers - I was confirmed, originally, Presbyterian but I married a Catholic and raised my children in the Church without committing myself until I was almost 40. Last year my Dad said he was worried that I would not go to Heaven because I wasn't "Christian". Set him straight on that part and then added whatever happens is really up to God. Dad being a pre-dispensationalist had no choice but to agree with that.
I have since moved on from organized religion in all its forms because none has really evolved since their dates of origin. The messages and the thoughts have not changed.
I do believe in God but now I call it life and Everything That Is and let the chips fall where they may because we really can't know what happens after we die.

[fifthoffive]

31. Nope

Anyone who believes that a simple request is all it takes for someone to "convert" is naive at best. I don't think anyone would believe it if I suddenly "converted."

That kind of controlling behavior is inexcusable. I would never compromise my beliefs for someone's momentary comfort, whether I'm the one dying, or they are.

I would never bring it up, or get in a discussion/argument about it. Just politely indicate that my beliefs are not his/her business and leave it at that. If they want to continue the conversation, I would have to leave, or ask them to.

[Bill McBlueState]

32. I would

For an athiest like me, the act of converting to something is utterly meaningless. I'd happily do something meaningless to me if it would bring comfort to a loved one.

[Ilsa]

33. I think it is a blasphemy for the person dying to ask for that. It wouldn't

be a real blasphemy for the unconverted, but the person on their deathbed knows the conversion is only under duress. It's a blasphemy on their part to ask for belief conversion when they know you can't be sincere.

[TexasObserver]

34. Not a snowball's chance in hell.

[salguine]

36. Even though a request like that is the most unforgivable sort of emotional blackmail

(this relative would be aghast if you asked THEM to renounce God on YOUR deathbed), you could always agree with your fingers crossed behind your back. The die smiling and you don't really convert. Everybody's happy.

[DavidDvorkin]

37. Of course not. Take this further.

Suppose the dying friend/relative believes that only people who openly curse Jews and blacks and publicly fornicate with farm animals will be with him in Heaven. What then?

[RadicalTexan]

38. I think about this a lot, as I am an atheist and my father is convinced I am going to hell

But, no, I wouldn't profess a belief I don't really hold. He's an adult; he should be able to handle that I am also an adult, and that, while I may not agree with him about a whole variety of personal convictions, I am a kind and loving person. That should be enough. If it isn't, too bad.

[el_bryanto]

39. What if he or she pulls through?

At any rate, true religion is a conversation with the divine. Anything else is just being social or a club to hit other people with.

Bryant

[BlooInBloo]

40. What's the problem? Just say you convert.

[hunter]

41. "You'll be seeing God soon, He's got my phone number, ask Him to call me."

I don't do emotional blackmail, and I'm not gonna lie.

[reflection]

42. I would say

that such a decision was not to be taken lightly, and that because I greatly respected the dying person, I would spend a lot of time in the near future researching and considering it. Then I would follow through and make my decision. That's all an honest person can do. :shrug:

[AspenRose]

49. That's probably how I would handle it.

[spanone]

43. my friends and/or family would not ask that of me.

[dysfunctional press]

44. i'd tell'em whatever they wanted to hear to make them comfortable.

it's no skin off my nose. it's all meaningless bullshit anyway.

[Forkboy]

47. My parents respect me enough to not even ask me to do something like that.

And they're not shallow enough to think that my pretending to be something I'm not, even with them on their death bed, will make their last days any happier.

[Blasphemer]

48. No, I would not agree to convert under either circumstance

The second part is easy - I would die on my own terms and if they couldn't accept that then so be it. As to the initial question, I wouldn't do it in that case either. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason in anything so whatever comfort would be obtained doesn't amount to anything at all once the person passes on.

[Gwendolyn]

50. Most religions require some instruction before you can become part of the flock.

Sometimes that takes up to a year, so unless someone plans on hanging out on their death bed for that long, they'd be SOL in most cases.

Edited to add: I would probably convert to another religion if someone paid me enough though.

[LanternWaste]

51. I would refuse the request.

All other things being equal, I would refuse the request insomuch as I'd be lying to myself. However, I would politely and sincerely listen with totality if the request was given in earnest-- much as I imagine we all do on a daily basis.

Same answer for the second question- as rather than lying to myself, I would be lying to them-- itself just as dark a stain on me as the former would be.

Although I realize that comfort for the dying is considered a moral prerequisite, I would also hazard that comfort for the living is just as much a moral imperative. And I'm sure we're all aware that many comforts, regardless of how sincere and sought after, can bring an even greater discomfort from their consequences (e.g., a bottle of good scotch for the alcoholic) if we look beyond the here and the now.

[csziggy]

52. I would tell them that I am sorry - a playact conversion would mean nothing to me or a god

A conversion or commitment to a religion would have to come from the heart and I would have to really mean it. And no matter how much I love a person, that love would not make me change how I believe or not believe.

Same as you, I am an agnostic possibly an atheist. But unlike you I would not give lip service to a religion even for a dying parent. It would be lying to them to pretend.