My church had to cancel its youth programs

[dsc]

Under the current rules of the sexual offender registry, a sex offender can't be in a place that has regularly scheduled activities for children. So if we had a youth program, even a Sunday School class, then our recovery groups (AA and NA) would have to submit names to our pastor to be run to see if they are on the offender registry. That would cripple AA and NA. Due to a lack of youth, and the ability to have the youth meet elsewhere but under our sponsership, our church chose to have no youth group. We also can't have any gay straight alliance activities at our church for the same reason.

I get that we can't have sex offenders hanging around children without supervision. I get that adults have to know where sex offenders are to protect children. But it is absurd that churches have to choose between a recovery ministry and a children's ministry. If our church didn't have it's recovery groups there would be no gay recovery groups in Raleigh. On what planet is it a problem to have children in a building at 11am and sex offenders in the same building at 8pm?

[malletgirl02]

1. i'm sorry to hear about that

I also want to commend you and your church for your AA and NA groups.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. That whole sex offender registry

has always bothered me. It strikes me as a continuation of the sentence, and that's precluded by the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause we all hold so dear.

PC has gone overboard yet again, and it's rising up to bite good people - like your church congregation - on the butt. This is what happens when Puritans are in charge...........................

[woodsprite]

25. I'm sorry, but I believe people like my nephew

should definitely be listed on the sex offender registery. He's out in 2 yrs, after doing 9 yrs for 4 counts of child rape/abuse in Ohio. It wasn't his first offense, just the first where he was charged as an adult. He's been in counseling for years, active counseling during other episodes. He ruined his nieces and nephew's lives and I'll be damned if I want him, or anyone else like him, around my kids. I visited him in the hospital (AIDS - contracted after going to jail), but I don't want him to come knocking on my door for a place to stay when he gets out. My brother (his father) has the same concerns since he is primary caretaker of his 2 other grandkids.

I can see not wanting support programs going on at the same time, or even immediately following/after, one of the children's programs. We have a local church that wanted to have a homeless shelter in their church AND they have a very active youth program. That was nixed by the city. If they're going to have kids on site, they have to take responsibility for them.

[dsc]

28. this rule is ever

Have a Sunday school class at 10am on Sunday and no sex offender can be in the church not just on Sunday but any day ever.

[get the red out]

3. Should this be posted in a group?

I wonder if it would be helpful for this information to be posted in the Recovery Group on DU, so it could be more easily discussed?

To me it seems like one of those bits of insanity that arrives with well intentioned laws. Like when little kids with butter knives in their lunch boxes were getting suspended for being armed in school. Also like the kids who have been tagged as "sex offenders" for life for having sex with their girl/boy-friend who is just a year or two younger than they are.

I know I have not heard of any churches in my area facing this dilemma.

[dsc]

4. gee an unrecommend already

I know now I am whining.

[Warpy]

5. I don't know who wrote the rules, but someone should have

taught him how to tell time before he submitted them for a vote.

All I can suggest is appealing to the town/city council for some sort of variance that would allow you both groups separated by 6 hours, more than ample time to eliminate overlap between stragglers and early arrivals.

[malletgirl02]

6. WTF

Some asshole unrec your thread. I'm kicking it again because of that. I also gave you a rec. This needs to be on the greatest page.

[get the red out]

8. +1

I have no idea why someone would un-rec this topic, unless it was out of a personal prejudice of some kind.

[dsc]

9. I suspect I have an unrecommend stalker

I haven't posted a single, solitary thread since the advent of unrecommend that hasn't started in negative territory, usually within a minute.

[Ian David]

11. I wonder who unreccomended your "I Like Kittens" thread.n/t

[malletgirl02]

13. I hope you don't mind me making a suggustion

I hope you don't mind me making this suggestion, but have you alerted the mods? I apologize if you already have done this, but I think this needs to get looked into.

[dsc]

14. thanks and I have

I am unsure what, if anything, can be done. I think that at the very least people who have a thread unrecommend ought to be able to see who did unrecommend the thread.

[Sinistrous]

21. Didn't at least one of the anti-unrec cabal threaten to

unrec every thread that was posted. I remember something like that.

[gratuitous]

7. You're right

And our nation's preoccupation with draconian solutions to problems is nothing short of infantile, for example "zero tolerance" policies that treat a butter knife the same as a switchblade, or two Tylenol the same as a hypo full of heroin. Contact your state representative, and see about getting the law changed. A lot of laws get enacted without a full consideration and evaluation of the consequences, particularly when we get into sketchy areas like physical and sexual abuse of children.

[county worker]

10. "our recovery groups (AA and NA) would have to submit names to our pastor " WTF?

Why would AA and NA groups be suspected of having sex offenders in their groups? If that is what is required at your church, it is a screwed up church IMHO.

I'd get out of there fast!

[dsc]

12. I would be stunned if we didn't have one or two in a group as large as our AA group

but the problem is we have to know, one way or the other, if we have offenders or not.

[county worker]

15. Then you need to check every member of your church.

That's bull shit to think that an person with an alcohol or drug problem is likely to be a sex offender. If I were the leader of the AA group or part of the group I would ask for a group conscience to move from your church. That is just down right bigotry!

[dsc]

16. church services are the one exception to the law

though we would have to check all members if we offered a Sunday school class. To be clear our church chose to get rid of youth groups and not check anyone.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. Someone who did something stupid while

under the influence of alcohol, such as flashing, mooning, or streaking, could have been caught and convicted of a sex offense.

[sallylou666]

20. Excuses for pedophiles

Flashing children is a crime. Intoxication is no defense.

Why do you feel the need to make excuses for pedophiles?

[dsc]

26. every single solitary gay person who had sex in one of the 14 states

which had sodomy laws on the books in 2003 is a sex offender (admittedly not convicted in most cases but offenders nonetheless). Any person who took part in either side of a prostitution transaction (more than a few drug users and alchys do that) are sex offenders.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

32. I said flashing

at a party in college. No children that I know of attend drunken frat parties. And a LOT of stupid things are done at them--I grew up next door and across the street from two, and I know of what I speak.

My point with my post was that someone NOT a pedophile could be charged as a sex offender (my husband had a buddy who streaked through a mall with a mask on and was so charged)--people can do stupid things, especially when they are young. But if you use the term "sex offender" people automatically think "pedophile rapist/torturer".

[juno jones]

33. I might add that some one caught pissing in an alley would bear

the stigma of 'sex offender'.

[county worker]

22. I understand that but I think that anyone could do the same thing.

Because a person has an alcohol or drug problem doesn't make them more prone to do that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

29. Of course

I was just trying to explain how someone who had a problem with alcohol or drugs could be labeled a sex offender--my point was the offense could be minor rather than something like pedophile rape or torture. Too many people think the worst when they hear the term "sex offender".

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. That is indeed sad

I lead the Dances of Universal Peace in one town where most of our members come from NA, and they are people I really admire--they have recognized their problem and deal with it from day to day.

The "registered sex offender" label is too generalized to be any good. It can include someone who flashed during a drunken weekend at college, a boy who had sex with his underage (and willing) girlfriend, or a pedophile who raped, tortured, and murdered his victims. They should not all be tarred with the same brush. And a church that is trying to help them (like the first example) should be able to do so---a recovering alcoholic who did stupid things in college is NOT the same as a torturer/murderer.

[wtmusic]

23. So true

but I am constantly amazed at the number of DUers who would happily burn every one of them at the stake.

[sallylou666]

19. Protecting the kids

The church has a duty to protect children in its congregation. Churches have been a haven for pedophiles (and I'm not referring exclusively to the Roman Catholic scandals). Just for the record, most of those pedophiles are straight, married men. Parents are reluctant to send their children to a church that doesn't protect children. In fact, this could be part of the reason for the decline in youth at churches.

Your particular church chose to serve adults over children. Your church could have kept the youth ministry and moved the AA meetings to another location. That would be a good long term plan for growth. And churches are surprised that their numbers are declining. Except for those prosperity preaching mega churches, but that's a different topic entirely.

[dsc]

24. We are a church that has virtually no youth in that we are a church of largely gay members

as to the AA and NA point, they generally meet in churches. With the exception of treatment centers, I can think of no other venue in my area that has such meetings. It isn't like the meetings were held when children were around. Unless the aura of sex offenders somehow corrupts the very air that is breathed hours before the sex offenders appear in the area it is nothing short of absurd to say this somehow protects children.

[wtmusic]

27. Under those rules your church can't have a member

who is a sex offender either so your entire parish must submit their names for review.

But I guess since there are no more witches we have to find another group to stigmatize.

[dsc]

31. true

So we can't even have a nursery for babies (we have two thank God well behaved babies) unless we were to check all our members. It is an insane rule.

[Vidar]

30. More fucking puritanism gone wild.