Please help me debate a right-winger on the auto industry bailout

[FatDave]

I've got a right-winger telling me Obama is a socialist for nationalizing the banks and the auto industry.

Saying he nationalized the banks is a joke, since that was a straight "here's billions of dollars, do what you like with it" bailout.

But if memory serves, there were strings attached with the auto bailout. I think the GM CEO had to be fired and Chrysler had to sell to Fiat, but I can't remember the details and I'm having trouble finding them in old articles. Does anybody know of a good article or resource?

The RW story of course is that the feds now own 61% of GM, but unless I'm wrong GM is still a privately owned that is run entirely without government intervention? Am I correct in believing this? Isn't it just now that the US government (and by extension the taxpayers) is/are the primary holder of GM stock? This would presumably give the government some say in how the company is run, but how often is that muscle actually flexed?

And didn't this deal come about largely at GM's request?

At any rate, the government investing in a private company seems a far cry from nationalization to me.

(edit: changed subject to hopefully get more attention. was: Terms of the auto industry bailout)

[FatDave]

1. Sure is interesting that my post got an immediate unrecommend.

Anyone care to elaborate?

[Romulox]

4. I didn't do it, but most of it was 180 degrees incorrect. nt

[kctim]

8. Sure

They were nationalized. Nationalizing private companies is a part of socialism.
The winger is right and your post got an immediate unrec because the facts cannot prove him wrong.

[Sebass1271]

11. The Obama adminisration found GM with a mess

GM had problems BEFORE oBAMA TOOK POWER. DICK CHENEY AND BUSH DID NOT WANT TO TOUCH GM WHILE THE WERE IN POWER ANDSAID IT CLEARLY IN A SECRET MEETING. "LET'S LEAVE THE GM MESS TO OBAMA" HE WILL NATIONALIZE IT, IT WILL BE HIS PROBLEM.

THIS WAS PLANNED BY CHENEY AND BUSH FOR NOT ACTING SOONER ON GM.

[blue_onyx]

2. US government is majority owner of the "new GM"

It owns 60.8%, the Canadian government owns 11.7%, the UAW owns 17.5, and "old GM" owns the last 10%.


http://www.automotiveworld.com/news//76857-the-new-gm-a-first-look

[FatDave]

5. Thank you. Does anybody know to what degree, if at all, the US is directing operations?

[blue_onyx]

7. I'm not sure

I know Obama basically fired the former CEO and the auto task force decided that bankruptcy was the necessary step. Congress may undo the dealer closings, which make no sense.

So the government is having an impact...just not sure if I could put a percentage on the amount of influence it is having.

[Romulox]

3. The Obama adminsitration is running GM at the moment. Some of your info is wrong...

"unless I'm wrong GM is still a privately owned that is run entirely without government intervention?"

No.

"how often is that muscle actually flexed?"

On a day to day basis. The Obama admin chose the new GM ceo, as well.

"And didn't this deal come about largely at GM's request?"

No. The Obama administration forced GM into bankruptcy and took the company over.

[suston96]

6. Lee Iaccoca and Chrysler 1980

Have your RW friend Google that. In @1980 the government bailed out Chrysler which paid back the money ahead of time AND....

.....paid the taxpayers almost half a billion dollars in interest.

I can do the research but I believe some of the recipients of recent bailouts have also paid back their loans WITH interest.

Here is just one story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8105461.stm

Tell your RW friend that We, the People, ARE the government. We bail ourselves out and we pay back ourselves.......WITH interest.

More stories about how the bailouts are working.....and remember, these banks pay interest to the US Treasury on those loans.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/business/global/17bank.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

[ingac70]

9. Bush nationalized the banks. lol.

[BeatleBoot]

10. TIME OUT!

I've never seen so many self-proclaimed "experts" not know what they are talking about...
except when I occasionally read Free Republic.

Try this website. It will answer many of your questions.

http://www.gmreinvention.com/?seo=goo_|_2008_GM_Project_Blue_|_Project_Blue_|_General_Motors_Reinvention_|_general_motors_new

[sinkingfeeling]

12. It wasn't Obama who handed billions to the banks. That happened under G.W. Bush.