Does it concern anyone else that the American Medical Association endorsed the House health bill?

[marmar]

I just read that in a column from the Guardian UK.....and suddenly my stomach is queasy.

:puke:

[bluethruandthru]

1. Yep...if they like it, it can't be good. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

2. Yes, k+r, n/t

[Muttocracy]

3. didn't the AMA part company with the insurance industry a while back

in some aspects of health care reform? A lot of doctors gain nothing from insurance companies getting wealthy. I remember thinking we might actually get some reform when I read about that in the last few years.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. The AMA is strictly a docs' pocketbook organization.

They oppose increased taxes on the wealthy, etc. They tend to be specialists like surgeons, opthalmologists, etc. They can be bought off with the right package of concessions.

Family practitioners, pediatricians, etc., many of whom do not belong to the AMA, tend to be much more in favor of universal single-payer.

[sandnsea]

4. Yes. The Senate HELP bill is better

I can't remember what all was wrong with the House bill, but it isn't as good as the HELP bill.

[Ms. Toad]

25. Agreed. For starters - the House bill doesn't

make any significant changes until 2013.

[sandnsea]

26. I don't know when HELP kicks in

But the HELP bill is more generous with Medicaid, subsidies and let's 55 year olds buy into Medicare. It covers abortion. It has a long term care plan. It's just a better and more realistic bill. I remember there being something in the House bill that really freaked me out, can't find it right now. It might have to do with whether anybody can go into the public option because that's really important. If the public option isn't open to everybody, it will end up being nothing but sick people and unsustainable.

[Ms. Toad]

27. In Y1 (2013) only individuals without insurance

and micro-employers are eligible. Y2, small employers (up to 20, I believe), Y3 the next largest, and so on.

Financing will be a problem - it is require to charge premiums to cover the medical care it is providing. Because it starts serving only the most expensive, the premiums will start at an outrageous rate in 2013 (and come down over time) but my guess is it will be declared a failure long before year 5 when it covers nearly everyone.

Edited to add HELP is effective immediately, aside from parts of 2701 which require State action - which are effective upon State action but no later than 4 years after the effective date. I couldn't quickly track which parts of 2701 require state action.

[Sebastian Doyle]

5. I hated everything I'd heard about the bill BEFORE that.

Now I know I was right to do so.

Why does this have to be so fucking complicated?

Single payer now. Save billions of dollars where it counts. Fuck the corporate profits. Fuck the 1000 page misleading bullshit bait and switch bills

[librechik]

6. red flag--but let's face it

we can use all the help we can get. Compromise tastes bad but still forwards the agenda.
(I hope it doesn't jump out of the bushes and strangle us.)

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Aw, shit, I didn't know that.

However, I could see them getting on board with a fairly reasonable bill (from our perspective) if:
1) They see it's gonna happen anyway, and
2) They can wring a few concessions out of the Dems with their endorsement. Likely concessions might be something to do with malpractice caps, and/or something to do with increased Medicare payments.

[PassingTimeHere]

8. As long as their incomes aren't capped in any way, I think they would approve

Right now, this a "have your cake and eat it, too" moment for the AMA. Why shouldn't they endorse it?

[Davis_X_Machina]

10. Howard Dean endorsed the same bill yesterday n/t

[Laelth]

19. I missed that. Do you have a link?

:dem:

-Laelth

[Davis_X_Machina]

29. Right here...

....link to Daily Beast by Dr. Dean.

[Laelth]

30. Thanks much for the link.

It's strange that he didn't actually make a choice. He mentions both the Senate bill and the House bill and says neither is perfect. He doesn't explain why. He also clearly suggests, and here you are absolutely right, that he would prefer either bill over nothing. He doesn't say that, per se, but he strongly suggests it.

That is very disappointing. I wonder if the Progressive Caucus will agree with him.

Here's what I read into Dean's written public announcement, fwiw. Obama has made up his mind, and he has let all the players know that he wants either one of those two bills (or one that falls somewhere in between) to pass. The players are now all lining up behind him.

That is very, very disappointing.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Uzybone]

11. nope

[bumbum]

12. They have a deal. Doctors in Canada make about $42,000 annual; the AMA is protecting US Doc wages

In Canada Doctors average about $42,000 and that is why so many of them pack up and move to the USA to perform service. I think the AMA has a deal to protect the $300,000 average salary for a GP in the USA.

[PA Democrat]

14. GPs do NOT make $300,000 in the US. the average is closer to $150,000

http://www.salaryexpert.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Browse.General-Practitioner-salary-data-details&PositionId=41442&CityId=300

[bumbum]

15. LOL! Then the hospital my cousin's son works at as a GP is REALLY dumb to pay him $305,000

The guy isn't even 30 yet. They needed a doctor bad so they helped him buy a $600,000 house with a 2% mortgage and pay him $305,000.

[Aragorn]

18. why would it be worth that much to a HOSPITAL?

Because they now have an employee (not an independent doctor) who can be - persuaded? - to order tests, admit and discharge when most cost-effective, etc etc. If you think that is not true for your relative, he/she is the only exception in this country. Even docs on medical school staffs have told me they face this pressure. In my state it is illegal as per medical practice act but the board looks the other way - for some reason.

[bumbum]

23. Actually it is a medium community with a lot of very harsh weather.

Nobody wants to live there except the people that survive on tourists 3 months out of the year when you can actually survive the weather.

[Uzybone]

20. Bullshit

Doctors in Canada do not make only $42K a year.

[mamaleah]

22. I linked a site that shows it much more.

But let some think a doctor makes as much as a retail clerk.....

[mamaleah]

21. LOL They do not make that small a wage.

From a government website:http://www.workingincanada.gc.ca/report-eng.do?noc=3112&sMode=area&provId=2&province=59&area=25565&nextButton=Continuer&template=portal

It's not 42K a year at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. You know I KNOW MDs on both sides of the border

and you are so off it ain't even funny.

You do know how averages are compiled right?

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/People_with_Jobs_as_Physicians_%2F_Doctors/Salary

Now realize this does not cover stupid shit like oh... liability insurance and the ever so lovely serving student debt?

I thought so, When you take that into account, pay is not that dissimilar

Anecdotally, given that you gave AVERAGE... you should realize some docs in Canada make quite a bit more than the average, and quite a few less. The same goes for docs in the US...

Don't blame the lawyers either by the way... which I am sure you will.

[ibegurpard]

31. Peddle your bullshit elsewhere

thank you

[Richard Steele]

13. No. The AMA represents DOCTORS, and Doctors hate the Insurance Industry as much as us peons do....

Of course, the AMA is as much a POLITICAL PAC as a Doctor's Union
these days...it balances out to ZERO in my book.

Long story short: their endorsement means NOTHING to me, either way.

[dflprincess]

24. The AMA only represents about 20% of doctors

If the AMA truly hated the insurance companies, they'd endorse single payer, not this weak plan that protects them. Though doesn't this bill allow say doctors to opt out of the public fan? (I think I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong about that.)

Just last month Dr. Chris McCoy resigned from the AMA because it wouldn't support a public optiion

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-chris-mccoy/dear-ama-i-quit_b_214318.html

However, the most disappointing aspect of the AMA's response to the proposed health care reforms was the opposition to the public health insurance option. I simply cannot support an organization that opposes the public health insurance plan for my patients. Instead of advocating for patients, the AMA is supporting the private insurance industry, which has been a driving force in creating the dysfunction health care system we have today.

But this should not have surprised me: when health care reform has been necessary, the AMA has always stood on the wrong side of history. The AMA opposed the creation of Medicare in the 1930s, when it was first proposed as part of Social Security. The AMA opposed Medicare again in the 1960s, going as far as to hire an actor named Ronald Reagan to read a script to the AMA Auxiliary declaring Medicare as the first step toward socialism, and concluding with the statement that if Medicare were to become law, "One day, we will awake to find that we have socialism.... One of these days, you and I will to spend our sunset years telling our children, and our children's children, what it was once like in America when men were free."
{/div]

[backscatter712]

16. I'm wondering if the AMA wants to drink AHIP's milkshake?

IIRC, the country spends about $800 billion per year on health insurance overhead on top of all our expenditures on health care.

And I'm thinking the doctors in the AMA are seeing an opening here that would get them more customers, less insurance company bullshit (lots of doctors have to spend half their waking hours on the phone, arguing with insurance company pencilnecks, only to get shafted half the time), and $$$MORE MONEY$$$!!! After all, the bills in Congress all have an individual mandate. They're thinking about a world where instead of people spending $800B on insurance overhead, much of that $800B goes straight to them.

Very self-serving of the AMA, but hey, we might be able to milk this...

Besides, there are a lot of doctors out there that are sick of seeing their patients getting screwed and going untreated - they may have made some noise inside AMA meetings...

[Laelth]

17. They want the mandate.

If everyone is forced to buy insurance, it's much more likely that the doctors will actually get paid for their services. Plus they like the fact that no doctor nor any hospital will be forced to take a patient with public option insurance.

:dem:

-Laelth