Cheney secret program NOT about getting Al Queda leaders

[thesquanderer]

Something is very fishy.

We did not need a secret group to try to find, capture, or kill Bin Laden or others high in his organization. The entire CIA and the entire military apparatus of the country was already authorized to do that. Since there are perfectly legal, legitimate organizations who would have been well within their purview to implement plans to get Al Queda leaders, why would we need a secret group for this purpose?

If Cheney had some ideas of his own, he could have implemented them through existing intelligence and military channels to which he would have had access and authority, even to create Top Secret missions for these groups, whether directly or through Bush. Since these groups were essentially available to Cheney for any legal goal, why would he need a separate secret group?

Secret groups would exist to be able to do what CANNOT be done legally. Since going after Al Queda leaders was a legal and public position of the U.S., there would be no reason to have a secret group charged with doing it. The administration even boasted when it got some of these guys, and would have boasted if it had gotten Bin Laden. You don't need a secret organization to do things you intend to boast about. You need a secret organization to do things you want to be able to deny ever having a hand in.

The only other possibility I can thing of for a secret group would be if the purpose were legitimate but the means and methods were not. But this would not seem to be a reasonable explanation in this case. What means for getting a leader of AQ could be illegal, that they weren't *already* doing through existing channels? I mean, they had already authorized illegal wiretapping and torture, they had already approved rendition and secret prisons, all apart from Cheney's secret group. So clearly, no such secret group was needed to accomplish this legitimate goal by questionable means. The secret group, then, must have had some other purpose.

I don't know what Cheney was trying to do with this secret group, but its purported goal of getting Al Queda leaders doesn't make sense to me.

[DU9598]

1. MIHOP

I think Sen. Whitehouse's cautiousness on Rachel Maddow's Show earlier in the week was quite eery. I agree with your assessment and logic.

[snappyturtle]

4. Oh yes! I said to Mr. Snappy when we listened to Whitehouse,

"Listen to how carefully chosen his words are." He seemed to be thinking about each one before he uttered it!

[thesquanderer]

9. Yes

I just found the clip, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRDqN9MD1IA

You're right. It is interesting to note the contrast between how slowly and deliberately he speaks when talking about the Cheney/CIA issue, compared to how the words roll off his tongue much more easily when he then answer the question about Sotomayor. Comparing those, he does seem to be very aware of treading on treacherous ground in that first answer, and wanting to be careful about each word. I thought maybe that's just how he speaks until I saw the next part, where he seemed so much more at ease.

[Beam Me Up]

23. Thanks for sharing the link to that vid. You're right. He's being very cautious. n/t

[Hutzpa]

24. Listening to that interview

I picked up on something from Whitehouse, now, I'm not sure whether it was deliberate
but considering the way he was carefully choosing his words my conclusion is, it
is delibrate.....he referred to Cheney as President Cheney, (59sec) what does that
mean exactly, that strikes me as odd.

I could be reading too much into it, who knows? :shrug: but it's odd....

[thesquanderer]

25. Good catch!

I missed that! I don't know about it being deliberate, but one could at least make a good case for it being Freudian!

[thesquanderer]

8. Whitehouse

I missed that, I'll have to look for that Maddow clip, thanks.

[ThomWV]

2. Since nobody knows what the program was actually about I have my guess too

I think its about spying on members of Congress, that is the only reason the Congress is so upset about it.

[thesquanderer]

20. interesting theory but...

...if congress was upset because they discovered the program was spying on them, I think they--at least the dems--would *say* that's what they discovered. I mean, why wouldn't they?

[spanone]

3. they. are. lying.

[kentuck]

5. Yep.

I.think.you.are.right.

[kickysnana]

6. 23 biologists or Wellstone? n/t

[thesquanderer]

12. ?

I guess i missed something... what is the 23 biologists reference?

[kickysnana]

17. Sorry, microbiologists around the time of the anthrax attacks, link enclosed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6063996#6069350

[alsame]

15. Those microbiologists! All of a sudden there were

strange accidents and some suicides.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. They were going to dig up information and blackmail people.

Remember. Their intent was to establish an enduring Republican presence. White male domination, I'm guessing. And believe me, from what I've seen of it, it's not even kind to white males.

[thesquanderer]

21. motivation

I don't know if I'd attribute the goal of "enduring Republican presence" to Cheney. I associate that more with Rove. I think Cheney's goal is more like "total world domination." ;-)

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. It's crazy, isnt it?

But people don't reach that level of ambition unless they have had many experiences along the way that convinced them they can get away with things.

[robinlynne]

10. makes sense. and of course, they didn't get Bin Laden at all.

[thesquanderer]

11. the best defense

I guess that would be the best argument for his group being all about getting Bin Laden... like everything else the administration tried to do... it didn't work!

[earth mom]

13. MIHOP/LIHOP no doubt about it. nt

[thesquanderer]

16. about LIHOP etc.

I am among those who think that LIHOP (at the least) is very plausible. I'm not ready to assume that there's a connection between that and this secret group, though. A little too much conjecture for me.

[CK_John]

14. Had to hide that live nuke flight and fuzzy math inventory. n/t

[Bullet1987]

18. The whole al Queda explanation is pure media

To take away the idea that there was intention AGAINST Americans or foreign countries we're not supposed to be involved in. Fact is, nobody knows WTF they did or were supposed to do.

[thesquanderer]

19. I think that's it in a nutshell...

"Fact is, nobody knows WTF they did or were supposed to do."

uh huh. I wonder if congress (or at least the intelligence committee) will ever get the truth. Even if they do, I doubt they'll let the public in on it.