My BS meter is pegging. Why would a program to kill terrorists need to be hidden from Congress?

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-na-cia-cheney14-2009jul14,0,3609174.story

CIA's secret program: Paramilitary teams targeting Al Qaeda

The agency had a plan after Sept. 11 for paramilitary forces to take out Al Qaeda figures overseas. Congress was never told.
By Greg Miller
July 14, 2009

Reporting from Washington - The secret CIA program halted last month by Director Leon E. Panetta involved establishing elite paramilitary teams that could be inserted into Pakistan or other locations to capture or kill top leaders of the Al Qaeda terrorist network, according to former U.S. intelligence officials.

The program -- launched in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- was never operational. But officials said that as recently as a year ago CIA executives discussed plans to deploy teams to test basic capabilities, including whether they could enter hostile territory and maneuver undetected, as well as gather intelligence and track high-value targets. snip

That official and others spoke on condition of anonymity given the acute sensitivity of the issue.

CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano declined to comment on the nature of the program.

[spanone]

1. they. are. lying.

[peacetalksforall]

2. Agree. B.S.

[scheming daemons]

3. Because it was do it in FRIENDLY countries... without those countries' knowledge or consent

That's why.

That's the scandal... and our "allies" in Europe would be rightly pissed. It violates international law.

[NNN0LHI]

9. Since when did the Bush administration ever care about international law?

You are joking aren't you?

Don

[scheming daemons]

13. Which is why they didn't want congress (or those countries) to know

[NNN0LHI]

19. The CIA got caught kidnapping and rendering a suspected terrorist in Italy a few years ago

How far did that investigation go? Did you ever hear Congress or Europe complaining about that breach of International law?

Christ we are still occupying most European counties since WWII.

Like what are they going to do about it?

Don

[Schema Thing]

25. wonder if that's what this is all about?

a way to reintroduce the Italy job, and hold some people responsible.

[NNN0LHI]

27. I think thats quite a stretch

[Demoiselle]

11. Yup...it's a lawless act. MIght even be thought to be a form of terrorism. (eom)

[Demoiselle]

17. ..Make that state-sponsored terrorism. Sound familiar? (eom)

[peacetalksforall]

20. So your saying the key word is friendly? Do it in friendly countries?

Tell us how this is not already happening.

And that this is a first of its kind of program for the CIA?

That the CIA hasn't taken out individuals who weren't from al Queda (an American supplied label) before this program that didn't get off the ground?

Boing! Over the top for credibility. A failure.

[ShamelessHussy]

23. like PAKISTAN for example?

I remember the Bush admin practically bragging about this policy since 02.

Did they kill political opponents like Dr. Kelly in the UK? Now that would be explosive NOT taking out AQ anywhere they where since that was there STATED PUBLIC policy from jump.

[scheming daemons]

24. That's what I think, anyway

[ShamelessHussy]

28. and how about all those reporters killed during these wars?

now that would be a shocking revelation if the HIT TEAMS were targeting civilians.

that they were targeting AQ anywhere in the world was something they boasted about not something considered 'TOP SECRET'

Guardian UK: Dick Cheney's fantasy war

Dick Cheney's fantasy war
New revelations about the Bush administration's secret post-9/11 anti-terror operations demand a full investigation


John McQuaid
guardian.co.uk, Monday 13 July 2009 22.00


When the 2007 film The Bourne Ultimatum debuted, in the twilight of the Bush administration, critics viewed its plot as a metaphor for post-9/11 America's excesses. The movie features a CIA deputy director who oversees the agency's post-9/11 "black ops", casually ordering the killing of a reporter for the Guardian who published details of CIA activities, and lectures a subordinate on the agency's extraordinary new authority:

Full envelope intrusion, rendition, experimental interrogation – it is all run out of this office. We are the sharp end of the stick now... No more red tape. No more getting the bad guys caught on our sights, then watching them escape while we wait for somebody in Washington to issue the order.

It turns out the movie wasn't quite so purely metaphorical. Over the past week there's been a steady drip of disquieting revelations on America's post-9/11 intelligence programmes, and the reality is starting to look something like the Bourne Ultimatum's sharp end of the stick. The most surprising new information came on Sunday, when the Wall Street Journal reported:

Amid the high alert following the September 11 terrorist attacks, a small CIA unit examined the potential for targeted assassinations of al-Qaida operatives, according to the three former officials. The Ford administration had banned assassinations in the response to investigations into intelligence abuses in the 1970s. Some officials who advocated the approach were seeking to build teams of CIA and military Special Forces commandos to emulate what the Israelis did after the Munich Olympics terrorist attacks, said another former intelligence official.

"It was straight out of the movies," one of the former intelligence officials said. "It was like: Let's kill them all."

This particular idea was never implemented, but the Wall Street Journal reported that the agency continued to look at ways it might assassinate suspected terrorists until last month, when CIA director Leon Panetta cancelled the effort, which had been concealed from Congress – reportedly, though not surprisingly, at the behest of Dick Cheney.

Last week a report by inspectors general at five federal agencies offered more insights into the efforts of the National Security Agency and CIA on warrantless eavesdropping. It turns out there not just one, but an entire suite of secret efforts that the report helpfully labelled "the President's Surveillance Programme" (PSP). On top of this came the news that attorney general Eric Holder wants an investigation into the Bush administration's use of waterboarding and other torture techniques. ...............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/jul/13/cheney-cia-black-ops

[napi21]

30. Isn't it also because their INTENT was assassination?

IF it's the same program, 60 Monutes did a piece that they reran last Sun. of a secret group went into Afghan., dressed at Afghans, and they lead guy said "They were told to capture or kill bin Laden but we all knew noone wanted him captured, we were to kill him!"

[snappyturtle]

4. Exactly! Thought that this morning. Surely this isn't unusual for the CIA UNLESS

it was! Now I gotta read the OP!

[Echo In Light]

5. Everything's a cover for something else.

[kentuck]

6. Your BS meter is working just fine.

This is a diversion from the "real' story and the "real" program.

[panader0]

7. No kidding

Isn't killing the terrorists what the army does already?

[get the red out]

34. Yes, and the deal about the drones

I read that this "program" wanted to kill the terrorist leaders without the collaterol damage of the drones. It just sounded like good-hearted concern for the innocent. How about some apple pie and a flag with that???

There is NO WAY they are telling us the truth on what this program was. And in the planning stages for 8 years? Come on!

There are stock yards with less BS than this story.

[hootinholler]

40. Since most male beef cattle are steers not bulls

I'm not sure the analogy stands, but I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment.

-Hoot

[get the red out]

44. It's all a stench

But not quite as bad as this story is putting out.

[Junkdrawer]

8. Yeah...and the only phones wiretapped were al Qaeda phones overseas...

:eyes:

[crickets]

66. Ha! Good one.

Surely those hit squads only operate overseas, too. Hey, you wanna buy a bridge?

[Lasher]

10. If if was never operational, why did it continue for 8 years?

You would think a program would be terminated if it didn't do anything for that long.

[get the red out]

35. They went to war in months

But this thing is in the "planning stages" for 8 years.

The person in charge of this cover up ought to be updating his resume.

[ShamelessHussy]

12. the M$M have custom graphics and theme music to help us all keep score for years

and they are trying to claim this is the 'TOP SECRET' program that the CIA chief had to shut down - ROFLMFAO

Well, I guess we can bring our troops home now, eh?

[kentuck]

14. More like assisting in the assassination of the opposition to Musharraf?

Or something similar in Iraq. Assassination squads of opposition leaders that might affect our strategy in either of those regions. Thing big.

[DrDan]

15. "never operational" - in the planning mode for 8 years??????

why am I having a hard time not believing this.

We planned an launched an entire invasion of a country in months. And it takes 8 years of planning for this???

bull roar. Someone is still lying.

[Botany]

16. Because they are lying

The Cheneys (Liz & Dick) are going to give up "the assignation squads" but
they are O.K. because they were just going after al Qaeda and keeping us safe
and what not.

total B.S.

[lunatica]

18. This type of program has probably been around for decades

And I remember one of Bush's earlier speeches in which he said some of the enemy had already been taken care of. Smirk, smirk. I suspected immediately it was one of these programs, and I was probably right.

[baldguy]

21. We already know that defeating al Qaeda wasn't a priority for the Bush Regime.

Who else were they targeting?

[chimpymustgo]

54. Democrats.

[conscious evolution]

22. We killed Al Quedas number 2 man

How many times did we hear that crock of shit?
How many times have we heard about cia drones taking out so called terrorists?

They are lying like motherfuckers.

[mopinko]

26. guinness book of world records red herring.

man, if brains were dynamite, these people couldn't blow their noses.

[Froward69]

29. My BS meter pegs over this too.

it seems to me training and "inserting" an operative into alqueda would be easy as cake. (It was one of my first thoughts when i learned about Al Queda's recruiting methods.) I then thought bushco was too stringent to even think of such a plan. fact is if it were a real plan and implemented I frankly would be all for it. (unlike Iraq) And do not want to know.

Keeping this program hidden from congress (and the new director) though makes it reak with an even more pungent smell than usual.
it seems that it was really never a plan to implement... other than a funnel of "covert" funds to cheney/bushco. With no one even knowing... Thus no one to ask any questions.

[Arctic Dave]

31. Concur. This has absolutely nothing to do with "killin' terr'ist".

I am at a loss of what would make the CIA blush. I'm guessing what ever it was it was done on US soil and extremely illegal.

[Mrs. Overall]

33. +1

[704wipes]

48. My guess is it is something to do with all the bio-chemists

who died in the past 8 years... But maybe my tin foil is just wrapped too tight...


Also since they both, B & C, either actually did or came very close to labeling any dissent as 'terrorism' --who knows how many of those 'terrorists' became very dead.

[kentuck]

32. This would qualify for a Special Prosecutor.

In my opinion.

You don't make laws on your own, and don't tell the Congress about it, and may be murdering people in the process, under the auspice of the US Government. That is simply not allowed. Congress must know the truth. This qualifies.

[peacetalksforall]

37. We're learning the hurting truth - we can't trust (all of) Congress. Congress must know,

then we must know. We pay for it all. We are the ones held to the strictest of the rules of law, especially men, especially African-Americans. We cannot pay for domestic and international law breaking orchestrated and defended by the media and reverends for the benefit of corporations.

Someone said - the core of all crimes is a theft.

The truth appears to be that a high volume of government paid employees are stealing from us for the benefit of a few. This includes accounting and oversight departments who are not doing their job. This includes the FDA which has become a totally bought and paid for department. Every one of the departments, including the so-called diplomatic one.

The CIA cannot continue like this decade after decade. It is time to make peace. It is time to stop the thieving for a few using the structure of government and the phoney reason of defense.

Decades of peace has been lost because of the military-corporate-religious contingent of war mongering hypocrites within our citizenship.

It is time to try them all for treason.

[Mz Pip]

36. I smell bullshit, too

This doesn't pass the smell test. I just don't see congress or anyone else be shocked by a plan to kill Al Qaeda terrorists. We offered a $25 million dollar bountyfor anyone who could get bin Ladin, then upped it to $50 million. We went into Afghanistan to root them out (until Bush changed horses). So we use the CIA, too. Just another method, not all that different from what our military special forces were doing.

Why would Cheney tell the CIA to lie to congress about it? It doesn't make sense. THere is a big piece of this puzzle missing.

Mz Pip

[Richard Steele]

38. K&R

[warren pease]

39. Until a critical mass of Americans admit the "real terrorists" lived at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave...

... for eight endless years, and that their phony "war on terror" is just another of their get rich quick schemes, we'll continue to walk around with our jaws nearly dislocated in amazement.

Their fight isn't against some raggedy assed group of "Islamofascists" called Al CIA-duh -- a wholly owned subsidiary of US intelligence (if that's not too much of an oxymoron) created, funded, armed, trained and deployed to the USSR/Afghanistan border to fight another of the dozens of US-sponsored proxy wars against the USSR.

They're just the designated patsies who must shoulder the blame for "the events of 9/11"(tm) so the Bushies and their cronies could have an excuse for their orgy of patriotic war profiteering.

But regarding "the events of 9/11"(tm)... What do you think actually happened? I'm pretty clear on it myself, but it still astounds me that intelligent, sensible and progressive people still cling to the notion that the Bushies, who haven't told the truth about a single event or issue of any importance since they were embryos, decided to tell the unvarnished truth about "the events of 9/11"(tm)?

Why would they do such a thing? They were bound to lose control of the whole myth; the story's just too dependent on belief in things that are completely impossible.

If we had a functional press in this country, the Bushies would be doing life without parole right now -- and hard time at that. However, the way US media manages news and information is a national disgrace and international joke designed to conceal or spin events rather than simply deliver information. If I want to find out anything of substance about my own country, the last place I'm going to look is any publication or website that originates here.

Elsewhere in the world, among societies where a relatively free press still digs and investigates and breaks actual news of great importance, people have been comfortable for some time with the high probability that 9/11 was a Cheney/Rumsfeld/CIA/USNORTHCOM/BushCo production.

There are serious 9/11 truth investigations underway all over the EU, a couple more in South America and more still in Southeast Asia. Interestingly, these places are, for the most part, expanding rather than abolishing human rights and individual freedoms.

People who live in these places think, with some cause, that Americans are complete fucking idiots to ignore the mountain of evidence pointing directly at the Bushies' role as the 9/11 general contractors. Worse yet, we're even greater complete fucking idiots because we allowed these insane monsters to remain in power, untroubled by any legal action or social uprising. And they just kept getting away with shit.

Maybe their time for accountability and consequences has finally arrived. But probably not...

It's apparently more important to "just move on" than it is to arrest, prosecute and decide guilt or innocence in an open court than it is to sweep US culpability under that Persian or Mesopotamian rug.


Anyway, thanks for the thread... I think.


sf

[HCE SuiGeneris]

67. You have it exactly correct. Thanks for saying it so well.

:thumbsup:

[Hugabear]

41. Because the "terrorists" they want to kill are American citizens

It's just a continuation of their "enemy combatant" program.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Obviously because Democrats hate America so much that they would warn the terrorists. Durr.

[noamnety]

43. think of it as their program was "unrecommended"

It was controversial, and didn't represent the majority view of the oversight committee.

;)

[PuraVidaDreamin]

45. The list is pretty long of strange deaths and suicides.

David Kelly, as mentioned in a post above, DC Madame, The IT guy who was getting ready to cough up info on Rove...
Others w/ anthrax, biologists. I wish I could remember them all. Does anyone have a list?

[warren pease]

49. Here's a list of internationally known researchers, including microbiologists...

... all but two of whom died between "the events of 9/11"(tm) and Feb. 5, 2005. There may be more by now, but this is the most comprehensive list I could find. It's called, with unparalleled respect for the deceased, "Dead Scientists."

An impressive list, I'm told, although I have absolutely no idea who any of them are/were before the fact.

Here's the brief bio on Kelly:

July 18, 2003: Dr. David Kelly, 59
--Expertise: Biological warfare weapons specialist, senior post at the Ministry of Defense, an expert on DNA sequencing when he was head of microbiology at Porton Down and worked with two American scientists, Benito Que, 52, and Don Wiley, 57.
--Helped Vladimir Pasechnik found Regma Biotechnologies, which has a contract with the U.S. Navy for "the diagnostic and therapeutic treatment of anthrax"
--Circumstance of Death: He was found dead after seemingly slashing his wrist in a wooded area near his home at Southmoor, Oxfordshire.

And this interesting observation on the subject, excerpted from this article on "Whatreallyhappened.com":

Now, statistically, it's possible, even likely, that one or two of these microbiologists legitimately were killed in random accidents. But for so many to die in such a short while exceeds all reasonable bounds of statistics. Prudence would demand an investigation, not the "ho hum" attitude of the government which even today continues to issue dire warnings to the general population of how much we are all in danger from "bioterrorism".

So, let's take a moment and step away from the perpetual fear-mongering of the media and assume that some party has indeed decided to "liquidate" weapons research infectious disease experts.

There is really only one reason to kill off a bunch of scientists. To keep them from doing something they are able to do.

What were these scientists able to do? Maybe blow the whistle if an artificially created disease was about to be used in a manner those who created it did not approve of.

Regardless of the exact reason, there does seem to be a clear pattern of targeted microbiologists, and paired with it, an obvious government disinterest in the matter.

I leave it to you to figure out why.

Other victims of their own knowledge include Mike Connell, the IT guy who worked with Stephen Spoonamore (another good Google lookup) and the "DC Madam," Deborah Jean Palfrey.

And another guy named Barry Jennings, who claimed he was hustling to WTC 7 to see 9/11 Rudy after "the events of 9/11"(tm) and instead found a bombed-out lobby, bodies everywhere, interior walls blown apart, crumbling elevator shafts and so forth... Jennings died not long ago, sometime in Sept. 2008 shortly after his story went public for the first time.

Makes you admire Sibel Edmonds' courage a hundred times more, doesn't it…


Standard disclaimer: I have no current or past affiliation with any of the people cited above or the groups supporting the websites containing any of the above information. I've been a "troother" researcher and activist in the past, but I'm now just an interested observer.

Still, I remain absolutely fascinated by the utter bullshit that passes for the "Official Conspiracy Theory" and which has kept this country scared shitless for nearly eight years and counting -- along with the rest of the world, which is getting a little sick of the US' twitchy trigger finger and sincerely hopes it doesn't point at them any time soon.

NOTE: All sites listed above fall into the loose category of 9/11 "trooother" websites or portals. Virtually none of this has appeared in the so-called "mainstream media." Or if it has, it's been spun like the contents of a clothes dryer until it comes out so squeaky clean and content-free that any remaining facts are just accidents.

But filtration is really mass media's job, isn't it, not the free and unbiased flow of information. So the near total absence of any coverage of any of the above seems to me an endorsement rather than a sticking point.


Happy hunting,


sf

[PuraVidaDreamin]

56. Good Start!

Thanks much!

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

46. I don't buy it either

re read this

http://washingtonindependent.com/50380/the-inspector-generals-report-on-warrantless-surveillance



:redbox: :tv:

[okieinpain]

47. because they were killing enemies of the state, not terrorist. n/t.

[Flying Dream Blues]

50. I'm with you, it makes no sense. Lying then, lying now. nt

[backscatter712]

51. Here's some tinfoil for you...

OK, it's complete speculation I'm pulling out of my ass, but...

Could this CIA group have been actively helping Osama Bin Laden? Maybe helping Al Qaeda put together 9/11 so Bush could have his Reichstag fire? Or helped Osama escape from Tora Bora?

You know this sort of treason isn't beneath Bush and Cheney.

Just a thought.

[Avalux]

52. LIES. LIES. LIES. I don't believe any of it.

The real program Cheney has worked so fervently to keep secret has something to do with 9/11. Dare I say that?

His 'retirement' house is within walking distance of CIA headquarters for god's sake.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marmar]

55. It would if some of the "terrorists" were Americans, none of whom belonged to al-qaeda

:tinfoilhat:

[LongTomH]

57. What about Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone?

No one has mentioned them yet! And didn't another of John Ashcroft's opponents die in a light plane crash?

[troubledamerican]

71. Now you're talking.

Don't forget anthrax.

[dorkulon]

58. Maddow makig the same point right now. /nt

[NNN0LHI]

59. The best the "expert" she had on could say was, "Maybe we were killing the wrong people?"

Wonder what that means?

Don

[mod mom]

60. Hmmh...maybe like Dr Kelly? That would have Panetta running to end the program.

Can't Panettta comment on this?

[ShamelessHussy]

62. I agree and I am so glad to hear that Rachel brought this up!

The smartest host on teeVee by far :bounce:

I hope more pick up on this and don't let the current narrative stick that only serves to make the Dems look weak and distract from the real story which I suspect is truly horrifying e.g. Targeting Political Opponents and Journalist.

[ShamelessHussy]

64. Here is the youtube VIDEO link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x337013

:hi:

[PretzelWarrior]

61. K&R

[InkAddict]

(Criminal) Motive and Opportunity (?)

Plan and Go

http://hnn.us/articles/812.html

"President Bush said Friday that he is scheduled to undergo a colonoscopy — his third — on Saturday. Bush will transfer power to Vice President Cheney for about an hour while he is sedated for the screening test for colon cancer." MSNBC, 6-28-02

[InkAddict]

63. (Criminal) Motive and Opportunity (?)

Plan and Go

http://hnn.us/articles/812.html

"President Bush said Friday that he is scheduled to undergo a colonoscopy — his third — on Saturday. Bush will transfer power to Vice President Cheney for about an hour while he is sedated for the screening test for colon cancer." MSNBC, 6-28-02

[Odin2005]

65. Because they weren't killing terrorists, they were killing critics.

Like that Kelly guy.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

69. Like that Sanford guy. (Paul)

The story has been well scrubbed from most of the net by the BFEE.

[troubledamerican]

70. Killing critics? Only? Or the Anthrax Squad & the Wellstone hit team?

[Rex]

68. Cheney needed to monitor everything the CIA, NSA, JD and military

were up to as well as American citizens. He had his hands in everything and we are paying for his evil intentions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Several reasons:

1.- All programs have to be reported to Congress by statue

2.- It involved hit teams in friendly countries

3.- These teams were most likely fully deniable assets... the kind of the blackest of the black

4.- This is just what we KNOW. I am sure there is more to this that we will probably not learn in our lifetimes... that damn classification thing...