The banks are betting against us right now

[AllentownJake]

Just an FYI. I can tell from personal experience, anecdotes from friends, and from the articles I'm reading in the paper on a daily basis.

Evidence one - A credit card company after I had called them on last Thursday, explained my medical bill situation and had set up payment to restore me to back in balance in one month called me harassing me to make another payment yesterday. I had the Customer Service Rep pull up my file and than she got confused. I informed her, your company is taking bets that more people are going to be unemployed and bankrupt and you are trying to get as much money as you can now. You are working for a company that is betting against America and I said sorry you can't get blood from a stone this week. Thank you and have a good day. I'm 30 days late and made a smaller payment (1/2 the amount owed) I could afford on Friday.

Evidence two - An unemployed friend who had been making payments less than the minimum was threatened to be taken to court. She had been trying to work with said credit card company only to hit a stone wall of resistance. Translation, they don't feel her or her husband will get a job soon in the economy and are trying to grab as much as they can in case she declares bankruptcy.

Evidence three - I'm reading reports in the newspaper that people with perfect credit and jobs are having their interest rates raised and their credit lines cut. Translation they are discouraging lending in case said person becomes laid off.

Evidence four - Goldman Sachs spent the last two quarters trading derivatives and making little investments into emerging businesses. They plan on spending lavishly on bonuses this year. If they were serious about rebooting the economy that money would be going to rebuilding it.

Evidence five - They aren't renegotiating mortgages. They are taking as much as they can now because they anticipate no payment in the future.


Translation the banks are betting on a worse economic situation. The banks are betting against America. They are now parasites.

I hope they fail.

TARP was built on the principle you needed to get the flow of capital moving again to reboot the economic situation. What it did not count on was that the American Banks could give a shit less about America or the American People. These are sociopathic institutions that need to be highly regulated.

[conspirator]

1. Betting? Can we just say conspiring? Cause that's what rich people do all the time nt

[AllentownJake]

2. They are idiots

They make more money off of us when we have more.

[willing dwarf]

3. Signs point to collapse of monetary system

You are doing the right thing in assessing the times based on your own experience and those of others. After Katrina (not that I was there) and the civil war in Iraq (not was I there) I've come to realize that no one will announce the official moment of collapse of the monetary system or collapse of society which has given ballast to the monetary system.

In spite of the "full faith of the US government", it seems that key people and institutions don't have much faith in the dollar, or in the power of the American people to pull themselves out of this mess. --And of course perhaps they are right because we've been mostly held in tall corporate office buildings without any ladders, scaffold or escape routes-- we're prisoners of a system which is collapsing beneath us.

The whole economy feels like September 11 with the twin towers collapsing around us in slow motion.

My only hope is to try to live close to the ground, spend nothing, work hard to overcome dependence on the energy grid including the fossil fuel dependent food grid, stay clear of new debt, find creative ways to meet your needs, wait for this disaster to pass.

[formercia]

4. The banks want to get as much funny money as they can

and convert it to hard assets before the currency collapses and the dollar becomes asswipe.

[Hannah Bell]

5. more than betting against it. they're taking it down. on purpose, imo.

[DaveinJapan]

6. Sorry to say, I had to unrecommend this one.

Your first two points are specious to say the least, in both cases you are complaining that delinquent customers aren't being treated nicely. It doesn't work that way (particularly not in an environment where toxic customers are extremely dangerous to the companies...not saying it's cool, just stating the facts as I know them).

Your third point is more interesting, but again specious, as it doesn't make sense for banks to make risky extensions in a recession. They have every right to pull back credit lines, if it becomes dangerous for them. They aren't "betting" that things will get worse, they are exercising some extremely belated and sensible caution (and they have a right to do so at any time, if you read the small print...noone has a "right" to credit, though in good times it is often offered up like candy).

Point four is the worst example. EVERY bank and investment institution is fighting like hell to stay above water, and you would fault Goldman Sachs for making SMART INVESTMENTS??????

Really?

So, you'd be happier if they went ahead and risked "life and limb" in order to satisfy your concept of "community" or something?

Sorry, I'll have to say "kudos to Goldman for making SOME profits out of this great big pile of shit we're sitting in", and leave it at that.

Point five is also akin to your first two points. They aren't renegotiating mortgages? You mean refinancing people who are already in trouble and probably delinquent?

Well, no shit.

If it was YOUR company, what would YOU do? Accommodate all of it and hope for the best?

It's not that they are taking as much as they can (in THIS case) because they anticipate no payment in future IN GENERAL, it's that they anticipate no payment in future from the people who are already delinquent and in trouble. It makes perfect sense for them to try to recoup any losses they can, WHEN YOUR ACCOUNT IS DELINQUENT.

I see most of this rant as simply not understanding good business sense.

If you'd like to start another topic about the REAL bad stuff these institutions are engaging in, I'd be happy to participate, but on this one it's a big giant UNRECOMMEND. Sorry. (nothing personal!)

[Hannah Bell]

7. "kudos to Goldman for making some profits" - they steal them, what don't you get?

you might as well congratulate dillinger, except dillinger didn't have any responsibility for bringing down the economy in the thirties.


but at least you explained your thinking instead of just using unrec.

[AllentownJake]

10. There is a reason Dillenger was popular in the 30s

He was probably a sociopath and a robber, but he was robbing people who had robbed the people.

[DaveinJapan]

17. I would never use "unrec" without explaining myself (seems only civil, no?).

You'll have to explain exactly what they "stole" in order for me to converse on this.

Seems like you're making some very broad brush statements. What exactly did they steal? Is it similar to other investment banks, or did they do something extraordinary?

The rest of your post, I don't get (I'm not familiar with Dillinger at all). How do the two correlate?

[willing dwarf]

8. I don't think Allentown Jake was ranting

Instead, he was putting together an array of experiences and anecdotes and observing that these guys we're counting on to help our economy are actually betting against us. That's not a rant; it's not even an attempt to demand that the banks accommodate his needs. Instead, he's looking at what's going down, and he's warning people that the ship builders are betting on the iceberg not the ship.

I'd say that you Dave, are doing more of the ranting here.

[AllentownJake]

11. Defenders of the system

I have a friend who has been unemployed for 8 months and has no prospects but will defend the system with every breath in his body.

Its comical and sad at the same time.

[AllentownJake]

9. They were given $10 billion dollars to invest in businesses

They used it on derivative bets, paid us back and re-opened the casino that caused the crisis in the first place....

People are delinquent because the banks irresponible behavior sank the economy.

I learned my lesson...I will never accept credit again. I'm young and I was stupid. However they were giving away T-shirt and candy bars when I took the card on my college campus. I will pay them off and when I do, all my money will be pulled from any financial institution.

Responsibility cuts both ways.

[PA Democrat]

30. For profit companies have the right to pursue profits within the law,

and consumers have every right to loudly denounce their greed and the reckless business practices that led to their financial woes. As taxpayers, we have funded the bailout of the banks, and most of us are disgusted by the huge bonuses being paid to the executives of those banks at the same time they refuse to try to work with consumers who find themselves classified as a "toxic". Most of us are disgusted by the banks jacking up interest rates to obscene levels and thus guaranteeing that more and more consumers will fall behind in their payments.

The banks engaged in highly risky and unethical behavior to get themselves into their current situation. Some consumers did the same, but many find themselves in a financial mess through absolutely no fault of their own.

You may want to read some of the investigative reporting being done on Goldman Sach's speculation in oil futures before expressing such admiration for their "smart investments" It looks like they have been manipulating oil prices for their own profits at the expense of consumers and our entire economy. Corporations can pursue their profits, but when they do so by engaging in behaviors that harm average Americans, then WE will pursue legislation to crack down on corporate malfeasance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml

Yes, corporations exist to make a profit, but there are longer term consequences to their focus on short term profits. A jump in foreclosures and bankruptcies have a ripple effect throughout the entire economy. Even though I own my house outright, it has declined in value due to the reckless behavior of banks. Even though I have excellent credit and have minimal debt, the interest rate on my credit card has been increased. I pay the high gas prices because of speculators. My family's income has taken a hit because many of our clients don't have the money to pay us.

Banks are focusing on short term profits and ignoring the long term implications of their actions. They bet against us when they made millions of risky loans and engaged in trading in unbelievably risky derivatives, knowing that the government would NEVER let them fail, after all how many times did we hear the phrase "too big to fail" when the bailouts were being justified.

If I could un recommend an individual post, yours would be first in line.


BTW, I hope you never lose your job and become a "toxic customer".

[gtar100]

34. Wow. Love that dog-eat-dog world, don't you.

Your giving kudos to Goldman Sachs with the information out there now really shows a profit-over-people attitude. Glad at least you got your shit together. Hope you don't lose your job or go broke. But then, maybe the Op's point might make more sense to you.

[AllentownJake]

35. Its the FISA mentality

Also the mentality that exist in many dictatorships throughout the world and world history.

[unblock]

12. tarp was NOT built on the principal of getting capital moving again

it was BILLED as a way to get capital moving again but it was BUILT on the principle that propping up failed institutions is more important, or at least more urgent, than propping up the economy.

giving money to overleveraged institutions was the single WORST place in the world to put money if the goal was to increase lending. if you want to build a mountain, you don't start by filling in a valley.

[Greyhound]

13. It's not a bet, they know exactly what has already happened.

We, being the obedient slavish consumers we have become, will not realize WTF happened until it hits us personally, or hits so many others that the critical mass is achieved.

The banks, or what we now call banks, have never worked for anything other than themselves, that's one of the Big Lies we've been fed. They are not "American Institutions", they are super-national corporations that happened to extract a large part of their wealth from the US and once they are done they will move on to a better feeding ground.
:kick: & R

[closeupready]

14. K&R

n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. We experienced something strange too.

They sent me a card unsolicited. They claimed there was a breach of somekind. Unfortunately, hubbie didn't pay attention to the card no.s and paid the total bill on one card. They couldn't or wouldn't consolidate the difference between the two cards. Each month there was something off. Each month we talked to them over the phone and they said they would fix eat. Each month it kept getting worse. Old purchases would show up the next month as a credit, the next month as a debit.

Finally, someone told us that the original invoice on the card that was canceled, was not meant to be paid, yet, it LOOKED like a bill. Internally, they would have transferred all the items to the new number, but, because we paid it, it confused the process, ergo items were showing up on the card again AFTER they applied the payment we made from the old card to the new card.

And if you're confused by my explanation, then you know how confused we were. We finally paid the whole thing without disputing it, though we think we paid the original payment on the old card, twice.

[CrispyQ]

16. They see the writing on the wall.

Our economy is based on consumerism & yet Wall St. talks of a jobless recovery. WTF?

Do Wall St. & the Beltway have their collective head up their collective ass? On the one hand they whine that American's aren't spending money & the next minute they announce they are sending 30,000 jobs overseas. I realize the multinationals have pinned their hopes on the global market, but I ask, "What global market?" In their quest for cheap labor, the corporations bring wages down everywhere. Already there are stories of jobs in India being outsourced again, to cheaper labor sources. The corporations are killing the markets that sustain them. Just like the human species is killing the planet that sustains us. All this killing & waste for the profit for a few.

[RB TexLa]

18. So companies are always supposed to blindly believe a country is going to do well economically

in the near future?

[AllentownJake]

21. They lobbied for the legislation

that created this mess...you'd think they'd have a little patriotism in cleaning it up

:shrug:

[JVS]

24. We had to blindly shove money up the banks' asses, so it's only fair.

[RB TexLa]

27. The banks are paying that money back and if the Tres. department hadn't changed the rules they

would have already paid it back.

[JVS]

28. Fuck that. They should have been nationalized. And the execs sent to be worked to death in Alaska

[JVS]

29. By the way, they were the ones who ended up with the money that AIG was given...

and they won't ever be paying that back. We bailed them out, even if you wish to act as an apologist for them.

[AllentownJake]

32. So many apologist these days

[AllentownJake]

31. I'm sure they would have

Where is my low interest loan?

[RB TexLa]

36. If you qualify for one go get one.

[AllentownJake]

37. The banks had a worst balance sheet than I do

Why did we give them the money.

they are fucking parasites. I want them to fail now.

[gorfle]

19. TARP was a JOKE!

TARP was built on the principle you needed to get the flow of capital moving again to reboot the economic situation. What it did not count on was that the American Banks could give a shit less about America or the American People. These are sociopathic institutions that need to be highly regulated.

No. TARP was built on the false hope that if you gave the banks money, they would lend it out again.

But the banks know what we all know - people don't need more loans, they need more wealth!

The people are tapped out on credit. It doesn't matter if the banks had trillions to loan out. People are borrowed up to the hilt and the heyday of credit-fueled spending is now coming to a close.

To their credit, the banks are at least doing now what they should have done before - they are being very cautious who they lend money to. For the last decade they have been lending money to anyone and everyone, fueling a nice economic balloon that has now popped.

[TexasObserver]

20. recommended for important content well presented

[scheming daemons]

22. I think it is a regional thing. Where I live, a refinancing boom is occuring

My best friend is a home appraiser, and he's had more business the past two months than at any time in his career.... because of all the refi's that people are doing here.

At least in SW Pennsylvania, the banks ARE lending....

[AllentownJake]

23. Regional or National Banks?

[scheming daemons]

25. He's mostly working with regional banks

[AllentownJake]

26. They have to make their money the old fashioned way

This is what too big to fail brings.

[PA Democrat]

33. I wonder if it in part due to the fact that here in western PA, we didn't see

a big increase in home prices? I know an appraiser in Florida who once employed 3 people. The employees have all been let go and my friend is now working at Wal -Mart.