If Panetta didn't know the CIA operation was going on, how does he know it is stopped?

[FarCenter]

He can sit in his office and give orders all day.

But does that change reality?

[Xipe Totec]

1. He was notified by CIA staff.

He now knows the situation.

Any operation that continues from this point on without his knowledge or approval is a criminal matter.

The CIA is evil, but they are not stupid.

[timeforpeace]

2. Seems there's a daily oscillation between incompetent and insane evil genius. Sort of like Cheney.

[Xipe Totec]

6. We tend to assume that sane people can't be evil

That is not the case.

Setting aside good versus evil for the moment, I have often said that when actions make no sense, we need to look for a hidden agenda.

The CIA is not insane, we just don't know the agenda.

[FarCenter]

4. On what basis would it be a criminal matter?

Are CIA employees and contractors subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice?

Would it involve misappropriation or misapplication of funds? But that wouldn' need to be true if they are funded off the books by otherwise interested parties or by drug money? Especially if they are off-shore.

Aren't you assuming some chain of command that actually works? We already know that it hasn't for 6 months.

[Xipe Totec]

11. Misappropriation of Federal funds and embezzlement

Any operation not authorized by the executive branch, at the very least is stealing national treasure.

Any operation not authorized by the executive branch and funded off the books by otherwise interested parties or by drug money, is already deep into RICCO territory; a slam dunk for criminal prosecution.

I'm not assuming anything other than the fact that, without executive authorization, they are thoroughly exposed to criminal prosecution, and the CIA is called the CYA for a reason.

[Beetwasher]

13. There Are Federal Regulations Regarding Congressional Appropriations and Oversight

Which would actually be the relevant infractions. I'm not sure there's anything covered by CFR or USC that has do w/ broaching executive oversight/authorization. Congress controls the purse strings and oversight, not the executive branch.

[ShamelessHussy]

3. and what else dosen't he or congress and the president know about?

I wonder if someone should propose an investigation or are there too many balls in the air already?

[panader0]

5. Welcome to DU

[ShamelessHussy]

8. thanks panader0

:hi:

[FarCenter]

7. You'd have to find a few hundred compentent investigators that you could trust

[ShamelessHussy]

10. hmmm... that sounds expensive, and if you have to trust them, too, oh boy

maybe it's not doable after all =(

[Beetwasher]

9. K&R!! This Is A TERRIFIC Question!!!! Worthy of K&R To Merit MUCH DEEPER COGENT ANALYSIS

This is a very worthy discussion and I was going to post my own thread analyzing the situation as it merits very deep analysis. What's going on is sort of like root canal. Obama has to dig out the rot and it takes time.

Here's my take for what it's worth:

The Fact That This Is In The Press Is A GOOD Sign.

And it's part of the "game".

I suspect Panetta has not found all of the elements of the operation, but part of the strategy would be flushing the remnants out. The story being plastered all over will hopefully make the remaining "assets" take SOME sort of action, or in fact, panic and expose themselves. In any event, exposing it essentially stops it because they will have to go into CYA mode, as opposed to Active Ops mode.

[peacetalksforall]

12. How does he know it is stopped? The wording of the news when it first came out is that

Panetta stopped the 'program'.

I tend to believe the phrasing when it first comes out. I clipped everything that came out in the papers about the Iran-Contra event. The story changed dramatically every day. It was a CYA parade. Names mentioned in the first days, disappeared from the story nearly completely, especially some partners. Khashoggi managed to remove his name from every day reporting. Things ended up being all about a secretary, North, and some home improvements.

I believe what was reported initially. When Paneta found out - he stopped it - so he said. I take a position about what I can believe and stick to it until proven wrong. I have to have an axis point and it helps to mark what they say initially - in my head. Usually the first is the best. Or used to be.

And yes, I believe it's possible that the CIA could/would conveniently forget to brief/de-brief Panetta about their operations, especially if sworn to secrecy or out of loyalty to Cheney. I also believe there are/were some good people in the CIA. Ray McGovern tops the list for me.

There are too many secret societies in the US that are attempting to run things and mock and ridicule our belief in the for, by, and of the people thing. We need to recall all the books about what this nation is supposed to be or claims it is. We need to stop pledging allegiance because it implies that it is our country and it isn't.

We continue to live a lie. We should coordinate our habits with the lie, then watch hell pass in front of us. Living the lie means were sort of contained and maintained.