BREAKING: NYT reports Cheney told CIA to hide info from Congress

[kevinbgoode]

From MSNBC:

"The Central Intelligence Agency withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program from Congress for eight years on direct orders from former Vice President Dick Cheney, the agency’s director, Leon E. Panetta, has told the Senate and House intelligence committees, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said Saturday.

The report that Mr. Cheney was behind the decision to conceal the still-unidentified program from Congress deepened the mystery surrounding it, suggesting that the Bush administration had put a high priority on the program and its secrecy.

Mr. Panetta, who ended the program when he first learned of its existence from subordinates on June 23, briefed the two intelligence committees about it in separate closed sessions the next day."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31867022/ns/politics-the_new_york_times/

[Lex]

1. Well, he should be hanged as a traitor

but that'll never happen.

[Botany]

4. When you wish upon a star .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9tTWu-b_ds


Dick had people beaten and tortured to admit to a link between Iraq & 9/11 even though he
knew there never was one. Saddam used to shoot al Qaeda people when ever he could.

[donheld]

47. Hanging is too good for Cheney

[chervilant]

59. Please

Stop saying "it'll never happen." Cheney will get his comeuppance. Why do you think he's been so visible--along with his pathetic daughter--in myriad sordid attempts to distance himself from this morass? He can smell the blood in the water, and he recognizes it as his own.

[Lex]

86. I hope you're right.

The thing that pisses me off the most are the Democrats for godsake who have seemed (at least in the past) perfectly fine with covering up for Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bush's crimes.

[City Lights]

2. I want Traitor Dick tried for treason!

Recommended.

[curiousdemo]

89. I hope Holder appoint a Special Prosecutor because

the Democrats is all talk.

[Submariner]

3. 5 deferment Cheney is nothing but pure evil

Cheney resembles the slime that exists between the seabed and a chunk of whale poop.

[MrMickeysMom]

76. And those are his GOOD points, Submariner!

[Kingofalldems]

5. Incredible.

Now waiting for Bush/Cheney's best DU pal to show up and claim 'Democrats did it too'.

[SeattleGirl]

6. Despicable. Not surprising, but despicable.

That man should be behind bars.

[Kadie]

9. Agreed.

:thumbsup:

[mwb970]

7. Well, duh! Who else would it be?

I knew it was cheney the minute they started talking about it. I don't believe I can think any less of him than I do now, though.

[bigwillq]

8. Investigate, prosecute, convict

What the hell have we been waiting for? :shrug:

[bobbolink]

18. "What have we been waiting for?" The president....?

[stlsaxman]

29. Congress prosecutes.

Not Obamas job.

[tekisui]

34. The work on his agenda, though.

He is the Party head and the President. He sets the aims, Congress does the work.

[stlsaxman]

41. it's called separation of powers for a reason.

you are describing the way we had it under Bush. Congress doesn't do Obamas bidding.

[tekisui]

57. lol.

right.

[orleans]

60. "Congress doesn't do Obamas bidding."

or ours, apparently.

[stlsaxman]

74. true that.

either way, we're fucked.

[eomer]

67. No, the Department of Justice prosecutes, not Congress, and the DOJ reports to the President.

The DOJ is part of the Executive Branch and is run by the Attorney General, who reports to the President.

Obama's statement, "but I believe we should look forward, not backward", which he repeated many times, appears to have been a directive to the Attorney General to not base decisions on the law and to instead take Obama's political perspectives into account when deciding whether to prosecute. Because so far there are no prosecutions and no signs of any work toward prosecutions even though there have clearly been crimes of the highest order.

Obama should publicly and privately direct Attorney General Holder to follow the law. Work on prosecutions should begin. If Holder will not follow the law then Obama should fire him and bring in someone who will.

So, in other words, you are completely wrong that Congress holds this responsibility. It is the Attorney General who is responsible and, as his boss, ultimately Obama.

[Swede Atlanta]

75. Are you suggesting the current Congress?

I agree that the current Congress can investigate and make its findings known to the Administration and the DOJ but this sitting Congress cannot take any criminal action against Cheney who is no longer V.P.

The roadblock to any criminal investigation of Cheney and others in the Bush administration is the DOJ and AG Holder. My hope is that the administration wants to get its two key pieces of legislation for healthcare reform and energy/environment through Congress before taking any action.

But I hope they do plan to at least investigate. What does it hurt to appoint and Independent Counsel to look into these matters? Sure it costs the taxpayers money but look at the millions wasted on Ken Starr looking into the Whitewater matter during the Clinton years. All that involved were possible financial crimes and abuse of power for personal gain.

Here we are talking about lies that cost lives and untold Billions in taxpayer money on a war of choice.

[BlueMTexpat]

87. There is FINALLY some movement towards the appointment of a Special Prosecutor.

:bounce: :woohoo:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12justice.html?hpw

The more information that comes out of Committee hearings and revelations like this have strengthened the Administration's hand. But it's been clear from the get-go that Cheney was not only running the show but that his scorn for the law and the US Constitution have been unparalleled. Now even wavering Dems ... and I am literally sick of such ... are realizing that the US Constitution is not worth the paper it's written on if such flagrant transgressions are tolerated.

[existentialist]

103. "Congress prosecutes"

Only in impeachment proceedings. It is the job of the executive branch (loosely defined--in a higher sense it is more the job of a largley independent Justice Department). It is right for Holder to act.

All this discussion, however, ignores possible war crimes proceedings before an international tribunal at the Hague, which is to my mind most appropriate.

[bobbolink]

105. And he hasn't said "NO" to it? He hasn't publicly said it's time to move on?

You haven't heard him say any of that??

You don't think he has any power over what the Congressional Dems do?

Really??

[hwmnbn]

10. Is this maybe why Cheney's secret service protection

has been extended by Obama?

Makes one wonder...

[mascarax]

16. I wondered about that too

As in: what's coming out on Dick?

Honestly, he should not get away with this (and so many other things). He should be held accountable.

[Stargazer09]

42. Secret Service could be doing more than protecting

Secret Service could be keeping a close eye on Mr. Cheney. After all, we don't want him running away.

[Odin2005]

94. Making sure rogue elements in the CIA can't silence him when he goes on trial?

!!!

[hwmnbn]

100. I like the way you think!!.... nt

[chill_wind]

11. What more do Panetta and Holder need to get this show on the road

for consequences? The sewage of evidence is overflowing.

[Dinger]

77. Maybe They Want To "Move Forward???

I'd like to move forward alright, after the bastard is in prison.

[saltpoint]

12. I don't believe it for one second. Dick Cheney is a prince of a guy, a

totally upright, God-fearing, community-minded super-citizen who is reverentially faithful to the spirit of the Founders while at the same time interested in and respectful of other diverse global cultures.

This article is just one more distortion of the liberal media from back east.

Now if you damn liberals will excuse me I have to go have the Hummer vacuumed.

[malaise]

13. WTF???????????????

Spying on congress?

Throw away the key

[spanone]

14. calling eric holder, calling eric holder.......

and who thought the president of vice was a 'do nothing' position

[pleah]

15. Ok, so how much more evidence do they need to prosecute these bastards?

Damn, they sure know how to drag their feet on this most important issue.

[conspirator]

26. They could find a decapitated corpse and cheney with an blood dripping axe in the vicinity

and they still wouldn't arrest him. he's one of them, the elite

[pleah]

40. It looks that way, doesn't it? n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

84. They've already found him with a shotgun and a face.

:shrug:

[Individualist]

90. Sadly agree.

“The Democratic Leadership Council’s agenda is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda,” - Dennis Kucinich

[MNDemNY]

17. Now?

[northernlights]

19. I'm actually starting to feel hopeful

They're releasing info on purpose. And extending Darth's protection for a reason.

Investigating a former administration sets a major precedent. That's what is holding them back. It cannot be seen as a partisan witchhunt. It MUST come from US.

It's not enough to write in here. Write to Holder. Write to Obama. Write to Congress.

We need to MAKE THEM DO IT.

[Duer 157099]

20. Regarding "we need to make them do it"

Isn't that implicit when we hired them to do their jobs?

Isn't the mere fact of voting them into office enough?

Must we now also hold their hands and tell them how to do their jobs?

[yodermon]

36. If they didn't actively campaign on it, then yes we must make them do it. n/t

[tomp]

72. obama said he would investigate. nt

[demwing]

92. Regarding "Isn't it enough..."

1. No
2. No
3. Yes

[stlsaxman]

32. You are spot on. This cannot be seen as a witch hunt. Only way is through Congress.

[NYC_SKP]

21. Kick and Recommend. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

22. I don't find this much of surprise...

That he did so. What will be interesting is whether or not the Obama Administration will bother to do anything about this, as well as take action on other previous administrative acts.

[spanone]

23. well lo and behold, cheney did have all the power in the bu$h* white house?

who in the fuck did cheney think he was, president?

[JohnyCanuck]

25. Not the president, the president's boss. n/t

[shanti]

54. but of course

he would NEVER have been (s)elected on his own. he was very much in charge.

[blogslut]

24. Because the hook brings you back...

I ain't tellin' you no lie...

[jwirr]

27. I am a bit puzzled. We had a pResident so when was chainy given

the authority to tell anyone anything? VP Biden speaks for the administration and does not take actions independent of the president as far as I know.

[jimshoes]

28. Who knew the Veep had the authority to

circumvent the office of the POTUS and order the CIA to do his bidding to advance his personal agenda? I'm blown away by the sklullduggery of VP half of the bush admin.

[notadmblnd]

30. Does Panetta even have the power to have it stopped.

Even though the Dick was VP, did he even have the authority to have given those orders? I mean, if the Dick went rogue with his little CIA assassination cell while in office, who's to say anyone in the government has the power to stop him? I firmly believe that the Dick has maintained control of someone or something in Washington since leaving office. I've always had the question in my mind; just why did he stay in the area, making his new home in Virginia? Why did he not go back to Wyoming or Texas?

[indie_voter]

31. And what are the consquences? n/t

[tekisui]

33. Get Him!!!

[greytdemocrat]

35. Bastard!

"Darth" Cheney certainly has earned his nickname. :nuke:

[Strong Atheist]

91. Very Belated Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Kansas Wyatt]

37. Everyone should be worried about what goes through Cheney's...

'Transition Office.'

YES, when the Obama Administration took over, Dick Cheney set up a "transition office." I do not know if anything about it hasn't been scrubbed off the web, but it was reported on CNN and was on the web when power changed hands. I remember thinking, WTF does he need a transition office for and what is he up to.

[ColbertWatcher]

38. So, now the question is: what did DimSon know, and when did he know it? n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

39. LOL! Link to MSNBC saying NYT has a story!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html

[orleans]

61. thanks & from your link:

"The Central Intelligence Agency withheld information about a secret counterterrorism program from Congress for eight years on direct orders from former Vice President Dick Cheney, the agency’s director, Leon E. Panetta, has told the Senate and House intelligence committees, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said Saturday.

snip

"Efforts to reach Mr. Cheney through relatives and associates were unsuccessful."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html?_r=1

[felinetta]

43. Liz Cheney must be so proud of daddy!

[noamnety]

44. After rereading the rules on conspiracy theories

I believe this needs to be moved to the 9/11 forum.

[cascadiance]

45. Are we no better than the MOB?!!! Prosecute these assholes already!!!

[Political Heretic]

46. K&R - releated, newsweek reports Holder leaning toward appointing special prosecutor!

[wantoutnow]

48. Why is nothing being done

Why does Obama not clean house? Treadstone was for real??? Real evil is entrenched in our government. To its core.

[scheming daemons]

50. Things ARE being done:

A) Panetta is getting the info out there
B) Congress is getting ready to set up hearings
C) Holder is getting read to assign a special prosecutor

This just came to light in the past few days.... My god, man... a prosecution like this doesn't ramp up that quickly.

Obama is not a dictator that can just say "off with his head!" and make it so by the next sunset.


Get a grip. Wheels are in motion.

[wantoutnow]

51. I agree

but its been going on 6 months now into his presidency. Not just this new revelation. I suppose entrenched evil takes a while and some finesse to get rid of. Like scraping off soap scum.

[Posteritatis]

56. From the looks of it Panetta only found out two weeks ago (nt)

[DeschutesRiver]

73. More like getting out mold buried deep inside shower caulking

you pretty much end up taking out the whole caulking and replacing it because usually you can't get to the mold to kill it with bleach or scrape it out. Long process and much work for just a few patches of mold, but if you don't keep it down, it grows much larger.

Entrenched evil will never be gotten rid of entirely, as it is part of the human fabric and always has been so. But there is no good reason not to occasionally punch entrenched evil in the gut hard. Show evil doers which way the wind is now blowing. Cheney would be a most excellent way to start this process of beating back the many evil doers, but it will take a heap of time. And I am still not sure it will happen, although I sense that someone at a minimum needs to be a scapegoat, and I think he is being targeted as the one who'll take the fall, simply because he was so hated by his own ranks.

Liz Cheney, just like her dad, has known all about this as she defended his behavior. She has been defending him because she too senses that the sharp knives are out for her dad.

[scheming daemons]

49. Does anybody know the details of WHAT the program was? Is this the surveillance program?

[Posteritatis]

52. Looks like it was off everyone's radar

From the way they're talking it's something that hasn't been in the news at all, which means it could be God only knows what.

One of my friends just said this feels sort of like someone next to you abruptly saying "okay, I think we're safe now" for no obvious reason...

[RagAss]

53. I have a feeling this is going to turn the nation's stomach when it comes out.

[shanti]

55. if it turns your stomach

it's got DICK cheney written all over it! :grr:

[tekisui]

79. No, but congressfolks are saying that when they found out

*some* of the details, their jaws hit the table. Dems and pukes alike were shocked by the revelations. There is no telling what was done.

[Horse with no Name]

58. Nobody had any idea...

Yes, of COURSE they didn't...

[Optical.Catalyst]

62. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3965087

[jimshoes]

63. Wonder if this has to do with the cheney

assassination teams? But that came out months ago. Whatever it is, it must be pure evil.

[tavalon]

64. Oh, my God! I'm so surprised

You just cannot imagine my shock. Surely not that paragon of virtue, Dick Cheney! He just wants to keep us safe from terror, er, terrorist, er, some shit, right?
:sarcasm:

[go west young man]

65. More fuel for the fire.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/09/AR2009070903017_2.html

Quote from article: President Obama has rejected calls from Democrats, led by Pelosi, to create a "truth commission" to investigate allegations of misconduct by Bush administration officials. The White House says such a body would foment a partisan battle.

[Imagevision]

66. Traitor, the man should be hung!

[B Calm]

68. FUCKING NO GOOD TRAITOR should be HUNG!

[RoccoR5955]

69. Traitors of Bushco, Inc. should be spending the rest of their lives in the crowbar hotel! n/t

[snappyturtle]

70. What worries me is the 'wiggle room' on disclosure that Cheney may have

availed himself. It's about halfway down the article.

[santamargarita]

71. Typical Cheney

:puke:

[geckosfeet]

78. Also - see the BBC news article - a good executive brief.

Cheney 'ordered CIA to hide plan'

Sounds like the CIA is starting to engage in serious CYA and obfuscation, and that Cheney seriously thought that the CIA would not hang him out to dry once he was out of office.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

80. Can we arrest him now?

[Myrina]

81. "Secret Counterterrorism Program"?

That's a really watered down moniker for the Assassination Squad, if that's what it refers to. :mad:


However, if there's YET ANOTHER program Cheney ordered the CIA to keep quiet about, then that's twice the reason for indictment!!!


:wow:

[gristy]

82. The million dollar question is this: Did Cheney conspire with the CIA (and others) to break the law?

If/when the MSM starts using the term "alleged conspiracy" for these activities, that will be the beginning of the end for the BFEE.

[fascisthunter]

83. you can't just sweep this under a rug

[opihimoimoi]

85. The SECRET SHIT??? Prolly was a way to keep the Presidency

permamently.....via Patriot Act?

[get the red out]

88. How did it "turn up tips" if it was never operational?

How did it frustrate the FBI in following up on tips it turned up if the program was never operational?

Even the mainstream media screws up it's own coverup within one article!!!!!

[Odin2005]

93. Death Penatly! Damn this monster and his evil heat straight to Hell!

The CIA by definition MUST be apolitical. The slimy Neo-Con bastard... :grr: :puke:

[mullard12ax7]

95. If he did it it's treason but if the current admin does it it's...

change we can believe in! It's masterful chess playing! It's necessary because we're at war! It's...fill in the blank with whatever slogan is being tossed around...

[quaker bill]

97. As the article states

Panetta shut it down "immediately" upon uncovering it. Since these guys don't mind a little of the rough stuff, whatever it is has to be beyond the pale.

[Kablooie]

96. But it's Dick Cheney! It's tmpossible for any charges of any sort to be brought against him.

He's 100% protected from prosecution by the secretive, "Cheney Immunity" law he instituted while in office.

Better let this go and move on to something else.

[chill_wind]

98. Must be urgently time for giuys like Porter Goss & Company to start another pack of lies

in the MSM again, attack Pelosi, etc etc . WAPO and Fox would be a good places to start first thing tomorrow morning.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

99. Time for our "Department of Law" to put on their big boy pants

and prosecute this immoral cretin.

[Logical Skeptic]

101. Complete subversion of the concept of Democracy.

First of all, this program is exactly the kind of thing that those of us concerned with our rights have worried about as the obvious reaction to post-9/11 hysteria. We still don't have any real information, and we keep seeing, in relation to the unspecified program, the words "not fully-operational".

Getting to that in a minute, I cannot put into words how much it enrages me that the mere suggestion of any type of double-secret operations carried out from the direction of Cheney's office had been ridiculed by mainstream media for the entire Bush presidency. Now, eight years later, the truth begins to ooze out (and I still don't believe we'll ever get any real information about this program), and the media treats this as some new revelation that had never been considered while still going at ridiculous length to assure us, of course with quotes from unspecified officials from unspecified agencies, that this non-operational unprogram had no malintentions whatsoever, didn't have anything to do with domestic surveillance, etc.

So back to the "not fully-operational" issue. Panetta admitted he recently shut it down (note that we are assured there were no objections within the CIA) and that it originated very soon after 9/11, so at least we know that the unspecified not fully-operational program was in existence for roughly seven years. While it was not "fully-operational", the obvious corollary is that the program WAS in operation for seven years and while we are assured the program was NOT domestic, it's certainly not clear that the unimplemented aspects of the program were not domestic in nature. If this was a Cheney-led program, we can only imagine what aspects were desired but not implemented. Personally, I get flashes of Iraq-style nighttime arrests and indefinite domestic detentions, Americans hanging from chains in some dank basement, etc.

I fully realize that these concerns are a bit paranoid, but the shroud of secrecy covering all these matters leaves almost any door open, and I will not accept placations from unspecified officials from unspecified agencies that everything (and we can't define everything!) is hunky-dory. This is exactly what we were told to swallow for the past eight years, and it seems borderline evil to me that the media continues to push these assurances at us while this type of program was kept secret and categorically denied from the exact same type of sources during the Bush II presidency.

So, after all this ranting, I have one simple statement of action and ask others to join me. I will not accept any statement on policy unless it is accompanied by name, agency, and job title. I fully realize the flip-side of this and the limitations of what public officials can say to the public, but unsubstantiated statements from anonymous individuals cannot be allowed into arguments of policy because they are completely unaccountable and are too often used to bolster spurious arguments.

That's my opinion. I realize I don't write very well or concisely, but this is my first post in a discussion forum and I am trying to find a way to vent my frustration with the politics and media culture in this country. Or, as my Mom says, maybe I think too much.

[Odin2005]

102. Great Post and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Rex]

104. So the Shithead Super Force gets to OUT a CIA agent during a time of war

and yet...neverfuckingmind. This kinda shit just gives me a headache. :(

[Ozymanithrax]

106. Dick will not be charged with treason...

Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

I doubt what he did could be construed within our constitutional framework as treason.

But purposfully hiding a government program from Congress is a crime, as is lying to congress, missuse of government funds, murder, etc. etc.

Until we have some idea of what he did we won't know what his crimes might be. But treason should be removed from the table unless his program did something truely heinous like assassinating Senators Carnehan and Wellstone.

[GeorgeGist]

107. Please, no new applications .

Being a Dick has been mastered by a dickless wonder from Wyoming.